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Nov 14, 2002, 11:12pm

Well, that was the original plan, but they haven't been released. Builds
are always released in stages during a beta program, as bugs are fixed. But
the plan was for 3.4 to be released as 3.4.1, 3.4.2, etc. with one or two
new features each time.

As I said, new features are great, and YS and ENZO are doing a great job,
but I think it's time to finally release 3.4. There's always another great
feature to add, but sometimes one has to draw the line on any software
package or the product will never be released.

-Brant

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Nov 15, 2002, 8:30pm

Well, then I'll have to disagree with the people who bugged ENZO. While I
personally won't take advantage of these features most likely, I'm sure a
great number of people using Activeworlds will.

But they could just as easily have been added in 3.5. You said you wouldn't
mind waiting for a few months, so why rush them? if 443 is stable, spend a
few more days writing documentation and release the new version first.

-Brant

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Nov 15, 2002, 10:50am

Well, I agree that backdrops are obsolete, but the feature shouldn't be
removed. Legacy compatibility is very important, especially for worlds who
use older world servers or for other universes who might not have the money
to upgrade.

-Brant

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Nov 15, 2002, 8:21pm

Skyboxes can already be made with masks. There was one in AWTeen a while
ago. Contact Robbie if you're interested in using the one he made.

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Nov 16, 2002, 12:38am

I think you misunderstood the post. The proposal was for a treaty between
many countries. Thus, it wouldn't only be the US who would be dealing with
hate speech.

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Nov 19, 2002, 9:11pm

Agreed. There are more important problems in the world than HTML posting -
more bandwidth is wasted in complaining about HTML posts than the posts
themselves. If you don't like it, then complain to ENZO.

:),

-Brant

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Nov 20, 2002, 12:41am

I disagree.

This isn't an issue of morality, but an issue of being broad-minded about
others' views. Many people don't approve of the words you hinted at in your
post. True, some may believe that using them in public is acceptable, but
I'm not sure that you or anyone can say that a "majority" feels one way or
the other. In order to make this statement, a poll would have to be
conducted and the answers posted.

But more importantly, there are many children in these G and PG rated worlds
whose parents don't wish them to be exposed to such language. What good is
a new ratings system in 3.4 is AW doesn't enforce the ratings of its own
worlds?

There are no customs aide bots in worlds like WildAW that are rated for an
older crowd. We just got through a huge discussion about the Gor worlds in
the universe - why are we complaining about the Gor worlds when we can't
even agree on whether AW's worlds should be moderated?

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Nov 25, 2002, 9:18pm

Am I the only person who has read through the beta newsgroup in complete
disbelief? If the testers can't post constructive criticism or at least
observe basic manners, then don't waste the programmers' time by being a
part of the test group. A beta program isn't supposed to work right - I
don't test because I don't want to have to deal with these issues. It's
downright appalling what some of the people posted there this afternoon, and
I only had time to look over a quarter of the new posts, if that. Not even
two year olds would be allowed to insult people like some of the testers are
doing right now.

There's a way to express your opinions, and a way not to. I sincerely hope
that Young Shamus and ENZO don't decide to remove functionality that could
benefit many users just because a few people didn't read the help files.

-Brant

Nov 28, 2002, 5:08pm

Pure genius. Don't listen to them, Goober - I'll have to be like Nornny now
and put my writeup as my signatures :)

-Brant

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Nov 28, 2002, 5:10pm

One more comment about the "Hall of Fame" - where is Eep now? For the
number of times he's complained about not being able to jump in AW, he
should get an award :)

Nov 28, 2002, 7:37pm

Sounds great - I'm glad to hear that the world is expanding. I just thought
I'd make one point, though, and that's that there are many mature people of
all ages who are part of Activeworlds. By limiting yourself to hiring
adults only, you could be ostricizing many people who are just as mature but
might be a little younger. Some of the younger people might even have more
time and knowledge to assist you in your goals.

In my experience, age doesn't determine whether a citizen will do a great
job or not. What matters more is whether he or she will stick through to
see that the job gets done :)

-----------------------------------------

From the Newbie's guide to the AW newsgroups:

"Brant - Former Caretaker of AWTeen, he's apparently decided to trade the
hassle of dealing with immature teens to dealing with immature posters
in the NGs. Sounds to me like he got ripped off on that trade."

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Nov 29, 2002, 11:44am

Why not send an E-Mail to devteam at activeworlds.com? Young Shamus might not
be reading this newsgroup and this important post would be missed :)

-Brant

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Dec 3, 2002, 9:36pm

I completely agree. Close? hah! They were "close" a month ago before
Young Shamus was ordered to add more features.

I used to read the beta newsgroup and follow what's new with 3.4, but I've
given up now - who cares if there's new features? The features that were in
before were good enough. Just release the thing already.

-Brant

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Dec 4, 2002, 10:53am

"Small" things? I'd bet that it will be mid- to late- January before this
version is released. The beta newsgroup is still flooded with posts every
day.

But more importantly, the documentation hasn't even been updated yet!
That's what'll hold up this release - with all these new features it's going
to take days or longer to write everything up.

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Dec 5, 2002, 12:10pm

I'm pleased to announce the public release of the Demeter terrain editor.
Demeter is an improved version of the terrain bot that has been running in
AWTeen since June 29, and allows world owners to provide safe and
encroachment-checking terrain editing capabilities to all visitors, even if
they don't have Caretaker rights. Everyone is welcome to download the
application and use it in their worlds.

Demeter was designed with three main goals:

-Ease of use: Enter your privilege password and get started right away
-Stability: Beta testing has been ongoing for some time, and seven beta
builds were released before this release
(http://www.shoemakervillage.org/beta.html)
-Universiality: Demeter works similarly anywhere it's placed, so someone who
has used Demeter in the past can easily visit a new world and continue
building with terrain without having to relearn.

The program is available for download at
http://www.shoemakervillage.org/programs.html. Everyone is free to use it
in any world they choose, whether it be public building worlds or private
RPG-type worlds (Demeter is invisible to non-build users). I would suggest,
however, that those who would like to put help on their world's websites
link directly to http://www.shoemakervillage.org/help - if you copy the
documentation to your site, then it would be imposible to notify everyone
when it's updated. A features list is at the site - go check it out
yourself :)

Feel free to post comments if you decide to enable Demeter in your world so
I can go check it out :)

-Brant

Dec 11, 2002, 10:57am

Don't look toward me - I didn't program the world server, lol. You'll have
to ask Calpentera about this one :)

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Dec 5, 2002, 10:31pm

Well, I disagree with one stipulation - A!!CT most likely isn't one of AW's
highest sources of income because universe servers cost much more, and there
are many universes out there.

-Brant

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Dec 11, 2002, 10:55am

Well, I can see what TechnoZeus is saying - perhaps this release will have
the opposite effect in that it will give some publicity to these type of
systems - and of course, publicity is never bad, since people will sign up
for both this thing and for AW.

AW doesn't need to "reinvent itself," however, simply because of one
release. Version 3.4, from what I hear, would have been quite competitive
with these systems. But I'm starting to doubt now we'll ever see 3.4 :(

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Dec 11, 2002, 7:13pm

I disagree with this comparison to The Sims. I would never want AW to be
like The Sims. If I want to play The Sims, then I'll buy a copy of the
game.

The difference between games like Quake and The Sims is that while these
games might look graphically impressive, it's just one game. You play the
game and interact, sure - but that's it. With AW, you can purchase a world
and do a variety of different things with it - make it a building world, as
Facter suggested, just make it a chat room, restrict rights, add rights,
turn the world into a game, network the world with other worlds, and so on.

I personally see AW's future in the SDK more than anything else. While AW
might not be as graphically impressive as other "games," it has more
possibilities in other areas that the other games don't have. Two years
ago, there weren't a quarter the number of people who are developing bots
now. 3.4 will have some 70 new attributes (if it's ever released) - imagine
the type of things that can be created with it. NewAW will be an
interesting experiment, because it has many features that are "gamelike" -
the collection and spending of credits, for example. Will NewAW succeed?
Only time will tell.

This debate comes up every three months, and the same conclusion is reached
every time: AW is done; it's going down the tube; everything's over. But AW
somehow continues to hold on, and juding by the number of people in the
Universe these days, it seems as if there's been an upswing in citizenship
purchases. In short, AW's been around for longer than most IT companies -
they must be doing something right (except for releasing 3.4, that is).

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Dec 11, 2002, 9:50pm

Well, even if 3/4 of the world can't use it, there will still be a LOT of
people who can, lol. But the truth nowadays is that over 70% (it might be
closer to 3/4 by now, ironically) use broadband Internet connections.
Dial-up connections are fading fast, and most of the 25% who still use
Dial-up probably won't be using them by the time this product is released.

Maybe they have a good idea with this connection thing after all?

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Dec 12, 2002, 10:58am

I'm still not convinced that this Second Life is much better than AW is.
Sure, it might do what AW does, but that doesn't mean that it's better - how
can Facter or anyone for that matter make that judgement without having
played the game?

I still think that AW will benefit from this because if that game's a hit,
then more attention will be drawn to the AW-type environments that are out
there. Sure, some people will leave AW for Second Life if it is what it
claims, but there will also be people who leave Second Life after
discovering AW.

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Dec 11, 2002, 8:36pm

I know - he E-Mailed me the URL, but I keep forgetting it - it's hidden
somewhere in the bowels of the Internet :)

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Dec 13, 2002, 7:06pm

Well, not so fast there. I doubt 3.4 will be released for at least a month
or two - while closer to Q3 2003, it's still a long way off :)

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Dec 13, 2002, 6:49pm

Who in their right mind would want to be on 3.4's beta program? Have you
seen the bugs?

But about the skinned avatars, it's a great idea - I hope that Young Shamus
gets around to implementing it :)

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Dec 13, 2002, 6:46pm

I disagree. While Christmas is over-commercialized, it's a great time of
year to spend with family and friends regardless of whether you celebrate
the religious aspects of the holiday.

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Dec 14, 2002, 3:31pm

Wow - and I thought that the first rule of life is never to burn bridges.

All of this is still speculation. Adobe MIGHT enable in-world building;
Second Life MIGHT be released; these other products MIGHT be developed.
None of the things alluded to below have happened yet. Furthermore,
statements such as "AW's lead in this marketspace has slowly evaporated" say
very little - what's the definition of "slowly" evaporating? And just
because a product isn't based on Renderware doesn't mean it's radically
different - it's possible to program something very similar if not the same
as AW with another 3D engine. And who is "we"? And how are you a "former
AW user" if you're posting here?

I'm not going to abandon AW until any of these products comes into existence
(or the extra features are implemented in the case of Adobe) for sure, and I
hope that nobody else does either. I'm sorry to say this, but this post,
its timing in comparison to the previous ones, and your taking your leave of
AW a few months ago seem to make this add up to the fact that you're trying
to spread as much negative PR as possible. Isn't it a little premature to
be predicting AW's demise when these products haven't even been released
yet?

-Brant

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Dec 17, 2002, 10:47pm

Well, I disagree with your statement, for two reasons:

First, I think it's past time for a change. Change isn't bad, and if you
look at the way avatars look now while walking, it's pretty pathetic. The
new system was made with the intention of making avatar walking more
realistic. Keep in mind that the problem isn't that the new browser speeds
are too slow; it's that the old speeds are too fast. If you look at the
size of many of the objects in Alphaworld, for instance, many of the walls
are ten meters high! Compare that to real life - having 31-foot high
ceilings in a normal house would be somewhat unreasonable. Avatars zip
along at unrealistic speeds, being able to run many times faster than
normal. In short, this change should be welcomed for adding realism to AW.
It's the objects that are too big, not the walking speeds.

But more importantly, AW 3.4 (if it will ever be released) has been in beta
testing for FAR too long. We don't need to add more features right now - it
will only delay this long overdue product. Look what happened with the
control-turning issue in 3.3 - a lot of people complained in the beginning,
but now nobody seems to have a strong opinion about it. In the end, most
people will probably agree that, while in the short term an adjustment is
necessary, in the long term the platform will be better for it.

-Brant




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Dec 18, 2002, 11:19am

Agreed - an open beta probably wouldn't lure many more testers than are
testing now anyway. I remember one time when ENZO came into AWTeen and just
started adding anyone to the beta program who asked!

This beta program is a complete disaster. I wonder how much AW's sales have
fallen as a result of it? If build 443 had been released as scheduled,
everything would have been ready the beginning of December, during the prime
holiday season. There probably would have been many people who, amazed with
the clouds and water that used to work perfectly in 3.4, would have
purchased a world for their brother/son/friends for Christmas. As it is
now, most likely the program won't be released until March, well past
Christmas and during a traditional "lull" in the economy that occurs during
the winter months.

I still wonder why ENZO decided to order the implementation of these
unnecessary extra features so suddenly...

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Dec 21, 2002, 2:16am

I just installed DirectX 9 and noticed that AW seems to exhibit less
freezing when new objects come into view - a very annoying problem, in my
opinion, but something in DirectX 9 seems to help with that :)

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Dec 24, 2002, 12:46pm

Well CarL, then you go enjoy your "life." It must not be that great, seeing
as how you have to brag about it here and put everyone else down while doing
so.

-Brant

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