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Dec 11, 2002, 7:06am

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/december02/secondlifepc/


Notice that it uses "Streaming objects" ...and full customisation...it
honestly looks like AW on steroids.....

Dear me, but it looks phenominal - and they say it has a downloadable client
of only 8 megs (though it IS only able to be used for broadband...but what
good aw world doesnt take years to download now as it is on a normal modem?)

Another AW-killer app I'm afraid .... something drastic really needs to be
done - like free aw membership or something to increase the user base,
because more and more of these new-gen mmorpg type things are coming
up..with Second Life and the Simes Online, what will AW be but just a little
peice of software on the sidelines?
F.

Dec 11, 2002, 7:59am

I thought Linden Labs was working on LindenWorld or whatever it was. Was
that only a test for this???

I know when these competitors to Active Worlds have millions to throw at
their projects, it can be very hard to keep up. But I think the best way to
keep this type of thing from killing AW is for AW to reinvent itself.
Similar to what Radio did when Television was introduced. I have some
ideas, but I think perhaps I'd like to let them stew a bit before I share my
thoughts.

Chris

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Dec 11, 2002, 8:50am

Bad? Looks good for AW from my perspective.

TechnoZeus

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Dec 11, 2002, 8:59am

I'm not worried. Alot of stuff fails look at Cyboria and the other chat
rooms they died in the business but AW's been here since 1995.

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Dec 11, 2002, 10:55am

Well, I can see what TechnoZeus is saying - perhaps this release will have
the opposite effect in that it will give some publicity to these type of
systems - and of course, publicity is never bad, since people will sign up
for both this thing and for AW.

AW doesn't need to "reinvent itself," however, simply because of one
release. Version 3.4, from what I hear, would have been quite competitive
with these systems. But I'm starting to doubt now we'll ever see 3.4 :(

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Dec 11, 2002, 11:16am

Bad only if AW targets the gaming communities and not the chat
and modeling folks.

All screenshots of NWN I have seen so far showed fighting scenes,
I don't feel like fighting monsters while I chat so it isn't an
option for me.

In this one, the modeling component is missing as far as I can see
in the description.


One thing is really missing for AW : they should add more conferencing
and presentation support, not really workgrouping, but it should go a
little into this direction. And they shoud advertize more for those
abilities.
- Contact group enhancements for the contact list
- The AW file transfer should be more reliable. Currently it doesn't
work on many DSL connections.
- It should have an option to send it to a group (with receivers confirm)
and be cryptable (asymetric) with a key, like PGP.
- A directory for shared ressources would be helpful.
- Optional display of 1 or 2 more time zones in the status bar


I have to go to video conferences several times each month and we have
some phone conferences too - I don't like them very much and they are
not cheap for the company. AW has the potential to be THE conferencing
platform for companies without loosing its current fun aspects. Those
many options in the world settings, that might often have been hard to
combine, would then pay off fully.

A few companies already have seen the possibilities they have with AW,
why else would Siemens have bought AW worlds and Volkswagen invested in
a galaxy for example.


AW has a future, it just needs a better placement, not in the crowded
area between 3D games but in a new one, where it's still quite unique.


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Dec 11, 2002, 12:29pm

[View Quote] How so? The whole competition and "there are more markets" hing isnt really
working in this instance... its the old scenario - if AW had more
programmers, then it could advance and keep up more rapidly, but at the
moment, Shamus is fighting hard to merely implement features that were in 3D
systems several years ago, let alone new technologies.

AW needs to do things, like make objects easier to create and use, and
customised avatars etc..one need only look at things like the Sims Online to
see that customisation is everything to people - we in AW are still stuck
with having to use avatars that have been created *for* us rather than ones
we want to be ourselves...hmmm. Many arguments, but no..I dont tihnkt he
whole competition is healthy and good for AW argument is working anymore.

F.

Dec 11, 2002, 12:31pm

[View Quote] ....I have 3.4 on my machine right now, and it is not near to being
competative as yet with these other systems...Shamus is still trying to slog
through (and getting there, I admit, and doing a damn fine job) to
implementing features that are several years old rather than newer ones
yet....

....too bad AW didnt invest all the money they spent on tradeshows and
"business" focused things on programmers instead....

Ho hum....but3.4 is looking quite nice :)

F.

Dec 11, 2002, 12:35pm

> - Optional display of 1 or 2 more time zones in the status bar

24 hr system for ALL browsers.

Dec 11, 2002, 12:37pm

[View Quote] >
> AW has a future, it just needs a better placement, not in the crowded
> area between 3D games but in a new one, where it's still quite unique.


See, this is what many people dont understand you see this dividing line
between "games" and "chat/modelling" software...but when yuo look at things
like the Sims Online, there is no boundary here. You cant call the Sims
Online a "game"..sure it is inth e game realm, and it is in that are where
it is marketed, but do you kill each other in it? No...what do you do? you
chat to people. You form relationships. You build things......

....sounds like the kind of software AW is supposed to be, right? The only
way AW is ever going to succeed in the *long run* is for it to be given to a
greater audience...it will never truely, and *has* never truely gotten off
its feet because it had constantly been marketed as a "building and chat
tool"...people can chat on IM these days, they can build things in the
Sims.....no, I disagree - AW has to enter the more "games" side of things,
or at least start purporting to give itself "game" qualities if it is goin
to get anywhere, and I believe that this is what they have been doing with
NewAW.

So yes, it need better placement, but unfortunatly that falls under the
ubiquitous "games" category, even if it isnt strictly that itself - its time
to take it out of the "chat" category altogether.

F.

Dec 11, 2002, 1:46pm

AW has something nothing else has......A community. We can make Bots, build
models, and all that. AW is getting into more Virtual Reality. I'll never
loose faith in AW.

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Dec 11, 2002, 2:22pm

[View Quote] It's the same damn thing as the 12 hour system. Learn to add.

--Bowen--

Dec 11, 2002, 3:18pm

Not this again pls....learn to adapt to international standards..

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Dec 11, 2002, 3:22pm

[View Quote] It's hard when only one continent uses it. Please, learn to adapt to international
standards.

--Bowen--

Dec 11, 2002, 3:24pm

lolol, one continent....almost the whole world uses the 24 hr clock..

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Dec 11, 2002, 3:27pm

[View Quote] Better not tell that to Russia, Australia, the US, Canada, Mexico (for all I'm
aware), et al. Actually it seems only Western Europe uses it.

--Bowen--

Dec 11, 2002, 3:31pm

I'm sure that Russia and Mexico at least don't use the ancient time system.

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Dec 11, 2002, 3:50pm

you are a complete, and total idiot, if you got any dumber blondies would
make up stupidty jokes about you (your not by anychance blonde are you?)
i live in libya, and once in a while, end up watching arabic tv, all the
arabs use 12hr system for normal time. i was born in england, used to live
there, and just came back from it yesterday. they use 12hr there (except
when you have to be preciece, like on tv sometimes, but even then they might
use 12hr system). now, look at your wrist watch, unless its a shitty casio,
it will be in 12 hour system! dunno about you, but i have never seen a
swatch with 24 numbers on the face!
Are you really this stupid, or do you just wanna feel special by having
someone give a shit about you and do something for you? cuz i doubt anyone
can be that stupid to either believe that the 24hr system is the most
used,or that anyone would give a shit about you!


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Dec 11, 2002, 4:33pm

Nope, have to disagree - game engines are developed especially for this
useage and AW will _never_ be able to compete with that, the same way
that game engines will never be able to compete with the typical AW
features (eg. the very detailled graphics possible, interactive
commands, etc.).
Each type of application has its focus and strength and can only include
elements of other types up to a certan degree, but not be the same.

The same way as you wouldn't use a truck for car racing, an avid gamer
would not use AW to play a game, or some game to build sophisticated
environments - becoming a game and even target a game audience will make
AW contours unsharp, not succeed and end up as a deadlock with the
probable descent of AW altogether.

However, there are various types of games, and when we talk about a
specific tpye the epic RPG type games, where high speed and shooting do
not play much of a role and where competiton is rather marginal, then
the aw engine could well be used for that. However, what we would use
for that as developments are not the 10th new view, the 20th speed
upgrade and the 30th method to press a key for the same result, but
well-thought interaction mechanisms but for the network
(uni-world-client) and the bilateral world-client and client-client
interaction (eg. enhanced scripting, enhanced account and avatar
control, enhanced feature control (rights(options!), enhanced sdk
functions and such.
Unfortunately, I still have the impression that AW is trying to run
behind a bus that has departed and tries to catch up with features of
application types that have been developed especially for this type,
rather than concentrating on other types where a leading and innovative
role can still be obtained.

LindenLabs is not offering something really new, btw, and will go most
probably the same way that other more or less famous developments or
"innovative" ideas went - right into the orcus. The pretend alone that
their application is the FIRST or only of this type (which is wrong in
multiple ways) shows either a deliberate dishonesty or a complete
ignorance/incompetence, both will be deadly for a successful business,
which requires in the end the constant interaction with the customers
(other than games that are sold and done).

The key for a successful virtual world has also nothing to do with
edge-cutting graphics, there are quite some reasons why products like
Habitat2 (Japan) and GlassCity (Korea) had been, in relation to the
needed developement, administration and the offered quality, extremely
successful.

Let's also face that the market for 3d virtual worlds is not growing -
not at all and especially not in the western countries. It will grow in
other regions, though, that are currently neither targetted nor
recognized by any company I am aware of, and it is very likely that the
"next" successful virtual world won't rise in the classic internet
countries.










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Dec 11, 2002, 4:42pm

I admire the quality and depthness of your speech and vocabulary - you
are quite a respectful advocate for this cause. :-)


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Dec 11, 2002, 5:51pm

aww, i love you tooooo! gimme a huuuugggggggg!

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Dec 11, 2002, 6:34pm

I think what kf is trying to say is that you could have said all that
without being insulting.

:)

Chris

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Dec 11, 2002, 6:37pm

screw u, no one gives u shit about u loser, and i dont give a shit if u
arabs are way too dumb to understand proper time, go and shove ur lies up ur
own, aight? i dont need ur disrespectful crap!


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Dec 11, 2002, 6:55pm

[View Quote] *claps* Thanks for returning.

--Bowen--
PS. What type of pottery did the Roman Empire use during the near of their collapse?

Dec 11, 2002, 7:13pm

I disagree with this comparison to The Sims. I would never want AW to be
like The Sims. If I want to play The Sims, then I'll buy a copy of the
game.

The difference between games like Quake and The Sims is that while these
games might look graphically impressive, it's just one game. You play the
game and interact, sure - but that's it. With AW, you can purchase a world
and do a variety of different things with it - make it a building world, as
Facter suggested, just make it a chat room, restrict rights, add rights,
turn the world into a game, network the world with other worlds, and so on.

I personally see AW's future in the SDK more than anything else. While AW
might not be as graphically impressive as other "games," it has more
possibilities in other areas that the other games don't have. Two years
ago, there weren't a quarter the number of people who are developing bots
now. 3.4 will have some 70 new attributes (if it's ever released) - imagine
the type of things that can be created with it. NewAW will be an
interesting experiment, because it has many features that are "gamelike" -
the collection and spending of credits, for example. Will NewAW succeed?
Only time will tell.

This debate comes up every three months, and the same conclusion is reached
every time: AW is done; it's going down the tube; everything's over. But AW
somehow continues to hold on, and juding by the number of people in the
Universe these days, it seems as if there's been an upswing in citizenship
purchases. In short, AW's been around for longer than most IT companies -
they must be doing something right (except for releasing 3.4, that is).

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Dec 11, 2002, 7:25pm

Competition isn't what I had in mind... although a certain amount of that may be somewhat helpful. Sure a lot of people think avatar customization is one of the most important features in a program... and other people think a spell checker is. We're all different, and there are a lot of us out here. I'm looking at a much bigger picture, including what I see Shamus as bringing to the development team and the effects that can have. Yes, I think in some ways such "competition" could be a little rough of AW, and cause for some people to worry... but I also think that AW could benefit greatly from the existance of other programs offering "similar" but not identical sets of features... for one, you may have noticed that the advertisement you found for that one was in a forum designed for games, that would not exist if not for the huge number of video games in existance. From what I could see, it's not "really" a game, but it's closer to one than Active Worlds is. I like Active Worlds for what it is, not for what it vaguely resembles... and I know I'm not alone in that way of looking at it. A lot of changes are going to need to happen, and a catalyst to speed some of them along isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't see that program as something new to compete with Active Worlds, but rather something new to join with Active Worlds in the slow process of changing the world we live in to make it better for those of use who like this sort of stuff. :)

TechnoZeus

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Dec 11, 2002, 7:38pm

ok, simple form, answer all of the questions in your head

Age:
Sex: male[ ] female[ ]

IQ:
number of friends (not including mum, dad, brothers sisters or pets) :__
number of those in AW:__
number of times you've seen "boyz 'n' the hood" within the last month (you
seem to pretend your in the ghetto):__________
number of times you've been out of the house in the last month (not
including to school):__
number of parties you've been invited to within the last year (not including
baby sister's party, who didnt really want you there anyway): __
number of girlfriends you've had (in real life!! online relations do not
count!):__
number of times you get beat up per day(on average):________
number of suicide attempts: ___

ok, answer those questions. and think, now which one of us is the loser?


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Dec 11, 2002, 7:53pm

this community sucks.

awmaki.com
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Dec 11, 2002, 8:07pm

[View Quote] If you think that AW is community...wait until you see the Sims online, that
wont just be community, it will be culture....

I'm one of the older users of AW in these forums, one of the first to use
the software - hell, I've even worked for the company, and as much as
sometimes I wish I could delete the damn thing, I always come back.....

....I just keep hoping, and keep wishing, that one day it will live up to its
potential - I wont ever give up on it, nor will I ever lose faith in it -
that was not what my comments were about, if anything, my comments are about
how MUCH faith I have in it - I would never have gone to worjk for them if I
didnt think that it was truely a magnificent piece of software....

I just want it to live up to its full potential...its been so long a hope
now - and one good thing about this is Shamus - the man is full of ideas
that would have taken SO long to implement with Roland (no offense against
him) still at the helm, and ideas that are *interesting*. Having worked with
him, I have seen where he's coming from too - and its a nice place :)

But still, there is much more that can be done, and I'm not just talking the
development side of things here....

F.

>
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Dec 11, 2002, 8:09pm

Oh come now, the graphics engine for the Sims Online is hardly anything
spectacular...that kind of negates a fair amount of your argument here....

F.


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