1  2  |   Order by default

Mar 2, 2000, 6:35pm

Well, considering the actions taken by AWCI to discourage controversy
anywhere it rears its ugly head has now reduced the signal to noise ratio in
these newsgroups to absolute zero.... No, its not great at all.

As far as I can tell there is a "community" of about 3 people who seem to
like what has happened here.

I'm sure that given enough time, the information set gathered by eep will be
replaced (or just out and out stolen). But last time I checked, most of the
links in the AW help pages were invalid, and they hadn't even spell-checked
their press releases.

[View Quote]

Oct 31, 2001, 8:04pm

Thanks Moria, you said that very tactfully, something I have lost the
ability to do here. I'll just add that I have never thought the emphasis on
2d board games was a particularly good use for AW, and every bad use of AW
takes emphasis away from the good uses, which is why I don't go to the AW
worlds very frequently any more, and would just as soon not hear about the
activities they have going on there.

The message seems to be "The more you pay us the less we will insert
ourselves into your 'world'" and I guess this is a hint that world owners
should get their own uniserver, or get out of AW completely if they don't
like the "AW way."

The message is also formatted oddly, the World message wraps the second line
so that "Immigration officer remains exdented. The Universe message (if
that's what it is called) puts the second line up against the left margin
and there is a blank line in there too (maybe that's optional). The whole
thing comes out looking sloppy to me, no matter what it says.

[View Quote]

Dec 3, 2001, 4:09am

Well I forgot all about the things this year. But when I went in to
look at the winners I could only see 3 avatars on the list. I
rebooted, cleared cache, all the usual fixes. Just 3 avatars. So
there is more that's broken than just the bot in that world. FWIW.

[View Quote] > In regards to the popular vote that took place at Avatars 2001, there is no
> way it could be considered fair, and I will request that this matter be
> looked into by digigardener and others.
>
> The bot did not work properly.
> At times, the bot was not present.
> Downloads in progress were halted/crashes occured as follows:
>
> AWORLD caused an invalid page fault in
> module AWORLD.EXE at 018f:00428812.
> Registers:
> EAX=00000000 CS=018f EIP=00428812 EFLGS=00010246
> EBX=00000004 SS=0197 ESP=0076f3e0 EBP=00000000
> ECX=00000000 DS=0197 ESI=00000000 FS=191f
> EDX=00000052 ES=0197 EDI=00000005 GS=0000
> Bytes at CS:EIP:
> 8a 45 00 8b f0 83 fe 10 76 78 83 fe 63 0f 84 40
> Stack dump:
> 0000011b 00000000 00000052 00000005 00000000 00429311 00429367 00000000
> 00000000 004293b5 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
>
> If voting practices such as this are allowed to be continued, we cannot call
> ourselves a fair virtual society with decent moral character.
>
> I suggest anyone that was unable to fully download and/or vote properly at
> this event write to the coordinators of the event to protest such unfair
> practices.
>
> Sinew
>
>
>

Jan 20, 2002, 4:39pm

Just saw this thread, had to get my 20 cents in.

MS reminds me of a spoiled brat kid (maybe that's just the Bill Gates
influence). They had the PC software handed to them on a silver platter
by IBM. Most of the intelligence attributed to them is in the
marketing department, not in product development. They DID take
advantage of early stumbles by Wordperfect, Borland, and Netscape. Back
then MS products were often priced LOWER than their competitors (or
given away).

My colleagues who where MS supporters said "just wait... when MS has the
PC software market all to themselves they will lower prices even further."

Those colleagues never could explain the logic behind that belief. I
think it was just wishful thinking. All of us as consumers like to
think that the companies we depend on will "do the right thing" if we
stand by them and help make them a success. (Anybody here able to read
between the lines? eh?)

Anyway, MS is doing a great community service right now... this lawsuit
is giving Lindows great free publicity. In about a year the legal
department at MS WILL get smacked around for helping to make the Lindows
kick-off a great success.

Another example of what MS will soon be up against:

http://www.oeone.com

An all in one computer and internet device for $800. Word processor,
email, calendar all sorts of stuff all built in. Automatically keeps
itself updated with bug fixes. Does everything as well as Windows or
better...except maybe play games. But.. I think people are going to
move more and more to game consoles, either Playstation or Xbox for now,
and PCs will be left to do "data processing" as the started out doing.
For those functions Windows is at a strong disadvantage even right now.

The fun thing in the future though will be when people become aware that
they can use something like a Playstation as a full blown PC. With a
real monitor and hard drive added there won't be anything you can do
with your PC that you won't be able to do with the Playstation. Current
and most likely future operating system for the Playstation? Linux of
course. If nothing else, this trend will drive PC prices down into the
dirt. When you are paying $300 for your entire PC, how much of that
will be the cost of the operating system? Not enough to satisfy MS's
thirst that's for sure.

MS faces stiff competition on all fronts. They are (with ActivX)
slowly losing the software development war to Java based systems. They
are not likely to beat Playstation in the dedicated Games console
market, and Playstation will soon be challenging them on the home PC
market as well. CE is not making headway against Linux devices in the
embedded software arena (software that runs VCRs, DVD players etc.).
MSNBC loses money, they sold off their Expedia service, Slate is a
loser, Office is at a dead end in terms of new innovation. Dot-Net is
hardly off the ground and has had several major security faults. But,
even if it succeeds, there is a group developing a non-Microsoft version
of Dot-Net for.... Linux of course with source code openly available.
So MS will be forced to give away whatever they come up with in that area.

And finally, they are not making headway against AOL for internet
services. They have less than a forth as many users after years of
trying. The latest negotiations with AOL regarding placement of icons
on the desktop for XP REALLY pissed AOL off. Quietly AOL has increased
development efforts on Netscape 6, ICQ, and is negotiating to buy Red
Hat (the number one Linux distributor in the world!). What can this
mean except that AOL intends to offer an alternative to Windows for
their users? And probably at no extra cost. You read it here first.

AOL in fact already has much of what MS WANTS to have: content, media
outlets, eyeballs, established worldwide networks. All they are
missing is an operating system, and one presents itself to them for
practically nothing.

MS on the other hand is struggling on all those fronts. All they HAVE
is an operating system, and one that is increasingly problematic. They
are in the unenviable position of having to maintain if not increase
prices on a technology that is becoming comoditized elsewhere. (Sound
familiar?)

Oh... and don't count Apple out either. They are making a comeback.
part of their strategy was to give up trying to do ALL of the operating
systems on their own and use open source solutions. Their new OS X is
baSed on FreeBSD (a cousin of Linux). And you can transplant the user
interface to Linux, or just run Linux alone on their hardware (runs
faster than PCs at half the clock rate).

The emperor's clothes are a bit tattered to anyone who is standing up
close, or has a good set of binoculars. :)

[View Quote] >
> Does anyone believe me that Microsoft is the essence of evil yet? The legal
> department needs a smack in the face.. maybe two for fun.
>
> --Bowen--
>
>
>

Jan 21, 2002, 6:44pm

Nobody would want to go out and replace a relatively new PC with
anything (at the moment). The market is relatively saturated at this
point. Current generation machines are as fast as any home or general
office user needs. But things wear out, and if the alternative to
taking a machine that won't boot to the repair shop is to plop down $300
for the latest game machine that also does email, web and word
processing etc... then the existing machine which is full of dust by now
is likely to sit in the corner for a while.

I used the figure $300 in my earlier post because $300 is the magic
price point for game consoles just like $600-$1000 is the range for
consumer PCs. That's the price that consumers will go out and get one
without having to make lifestyle adjustments to compensate. There is a
lot that goes into that price other than just the cost of manufacturing.
Sony is said to lose $100 a box on the PS II and MS the same amount on
the Xbox, but that doesn't mean it costs them $400 to make the things.
There are advertising and distribution costs, R&D, etc.

Corrections to earlier posts: The Playstation available in Japan now
hooks to a regular computer monitor as well as the TV. No loss in
resolution when it is used that way. You can pay $40 for a mouse and
keyboard in CompUSA if you want to, but there are also perfectly useable
optical mice for under $10 and keyboards as well.

I think we have all heard that the game box makers lose money on each
game box sold, and then make it up with profit on the games. Microsoft
has been in the catbird seat, making money when you buy your new PC, and
then making more money on add-on software, leaving it to the Dells,
Compaqs, Intels and AMDs to slug it out in the manufacturing sector with
razor thin margins.

That time is over. From here on out, if you don't MAKE something
(hardware) you won't make anything (profit). Software (particularly
operating system and general use utilities) will be free, or almost
free. Specialty software will sell... games, development tools 3D
modeling programs (hehe), and MS will be a player in those areas just as
they have been, but it will take a lot more than that to keep the MS
money machine afloat. MS is in the game box business because they think
they need to be to survive (and they do). They need to become more like
AOL/TW... diversified, and making money in several sectors. Where did
the competing operating systems come from other than MS? IBM, Sun,
Apple, DEC, all primarily HARDWARE companies. These companies can all
afford to give up their OS business though, because their core business
is hardware (and services). MS's business model is unique however.
They have built their huge war chest on two products, Office, and the
OS. The open source movement, has gradually made their position untenable.

So far, MS is in the process of diversifying, but they are only making
money in the areas where they have established monopolies (although I
think they claim that MSN and their mouse business are making some money
for them too).

Anyway... unless you have all your money in MS stock, these are things
to celebrate. prices will keep coming down, replacing your PC (or
equivalent) will be more like replacing your portable CD player than
replacing your car.

Life is good :)

[View Quote] > I don't know about that. I mean, with computers and ISPs as ubiquitous as
> they are now, who would want to check e-mail on a console that doesn't come
> standard with a keyboard, where you have to buy the modem, and then read the
> e-mail through the lousy screen resolution of a television? :) A cool
> novelty, but who would want to buy all that stuff when they already have the
> capabilities on their home PC? That might be the reason why Nintendo isn't
> planning on any WebTV-like interfaces with its online network. *shrug* Oh
> well.

Nov 15, 1999, 4:51pm

Well... I bet ALMOST everyone involved agrees with what you say Lara. And
since I noticed your post has your name on it I have to ask:

Can we post under our own names again?
What a concept !!!

Closely monitoring a newsgoup (or a chatroom for that matter) is a dull and
thankless task. How could anyone take delight it?


[View Quote]

Nov 17, 1999, 3:33pm

I don't think Mauz was referring to the "Community Charter" which is the
first post in this group. I think she was referring to the unwritten
charter which is constantly evolving at COF and must be inferred from a
scant few communications with (or actions against) users. Truth be known
(and understood), it is the arbitrary nature of these actions which drive
people crazy. If there were a set of rules, in writing, the EVERYONE must
abide by, then some of us would be unhappy with the rules, but as long as
people have to GUESS what is acceptable, and know that what is acceptable is
a moving target from day to day, then all but the few in control will be
unhappy, and will probably refuse to participate here, or in AW.

As for those who rejoice at eeps inability to post here, keep in mind that
it is largely a voluntary decision on his part not to buy a userid (or even
borrow someone else's for purposes of posting). It was also voluntary that
he spent so much time putting those web pages together that those of us who
build have come to rely on. So, after your done rejoicing, get busy and
replace that information. The ramifications of tightly controlling an
environment, in the real world, or in cyberspace, are usually not known
until the damage is done, and irreparable.

The beauty of AW was largely created by volunteers, who received nothing
for their work other than the pleasure of creating it. Another group of
volunteers is now predominant who do their volunteer work in exchange for
perks, and the right to delete or suppress the work of others.

While others protested that AW was not democratic enough, I have ALWAYS
said that it was the right of the owners of this technology to do with it as
they wished. I guess I should have taken the time to point out that I
believe that democracy WORKS where large groups of people are trying to
co-exist. The choice by COF to move steadily away from modalities that have
been proven in the real world is indeed their right. It is also a big
mistake.

I think we have arrived.


[View Quote]

Nov 19, 1999, 3:52pm

I am afraid it will get bland too. I have sent and receive email to people
based on comments here simply because I am afraid that I might say the wrong
thing publicly. I don't agree that it was inevitable that they take this
step however. Thre are many fine companies who allow themselves to be
critisized publicly. Most large ISPs have newsgroups dedicated to service
issues and you see some pretty harsh critisisms there. Anyone using the
contents of these newsgroups to evaluate the product (or the stock) will
quickly realize it if they are reading filtered material, and quickly
discount it.

For every "shot" that they took in the newsgoups there were dozens of
positive comments. Until I can see my posts show up within a few minutes
again, I see no reason to discuss any other issue pro or con here. Users
of AW should be allowed to express themselves. Period.

(CCing this via email just in case)

[View Quote]

Nov 30, 1999, 3:15pm

Stepping up to the plate.....

Well I am not the rough and tumble type who goes to seedy bars and breaks
bottles over people's heads like in the Hollywood westerns. On the other
hand, I really can't understand what all the concern is about a little
"bashing". There are what... 30,000 usenet newsgroups? I don't think I
have found one yet where there is no bashing, trolling, spamming and all
sorts of other bad behavior. Not once have I been traumatized by reading
something in a newsgroup.

I have also witnessed in this very newsgroup (actually its predecessor
"awcommunity") cases where people who's native language was not English said
things which seemed a bit harsh. In many such cases, the "bashing" is in
the eye of the beholder. There is no disputing the usefulness of the
technical newsgroups here "worldbuilders", "sdk", "beta". But THIS group
is where you could come to find out what people think. People you might
not run into in AW because of time differences or world preferences. If I
post something here that someone violently disagrees with, and the only way
they can express their disagreement is to call me an idiot, well.... I think
I can live with that.

On the other hand... there are people in this world who cannot let a piece
of lint go unpicked off your collar. They can't live in a neighborhood
where the houses are not color coordinated. If they prefer Amoretto
flavored coffee, they can't see why everyone doesn't drink it. Not only do
they know what's best for their children, but they know what's best for YOUR
children. Given a podium they will be glad to tell you what is best for
you. Given authority they will order you to do things their way. Given a
weapon they will dispose of you if you refuse.

I don't know much about you or your politics Jetta, but based on the names
of the worlds you own, I bet you have a strong appreciation for the value of
diversity and the benefits that can come from it. This diversity is in my
opinion one of the most important things about AW. It is being slowly
destroyed by people who don't share that appreciation. Maybe his message
will get through. Maybe most of our messages will get through. Have I
"bashed" anyone here?

Read that charter again. The mechanism is in place to filter out anything
that "needs" to be filtered out, based on the opinions of a few people, and
maybe a coin toss. Restricting this forum to citizens is really an
administrative issue, it automatically filters out a few known
"troublemakers", and leaves less work for the "gods" that monitor this
group.

I marvel at the lint pickers ability to derive pleasure from the act.

The number of posts to newsgroups about AW is down. WAY down. And not
just this newgroup, but all of them. I leave it as an exercise to the
reader to figure out why.

[View Quote]

Dec 2, 1999, 9:31pm

Yes.... funny.... it says:

" However, a discussion in recent months about defense contractor Lockheed
Martin has been stripped from the Web site for being too controversial. "

and stating that this is a departure from previously understood Yahoo rules:

"Yahoo's previous policy was to remove messages that break securities laws
or contain libelous statements."

So lets not forget here... the issue is not whether or not they are doing a
good job of filtering what gets included in the newsgroup NOW. The issue
is, what will the filter be next week or next month. And will we know
when the filter changes. And will we have any say-so about it. And under
the circumstances, does that filtering increase or decrease the value of
this newsgoup, or any other newsgroup.

I think there is a place for both filtered and unfiltered newsgoups. If
you were to take the AW newsgroup list and show it to a disinterested 3rd
party who is familiar with real netiquette, and ask them... "which of these
would most likely be filtered newsgroups?" The answer would be "beta,
bots, worldbuilders, and maybe wishlist". Those are specific topics that
one would expect a need to monitor for "germaneness". One would NOT
typically assume that a group named "community" would need to be filtered.
And one would not ever expect it to be the ONLY one being filtered.

So go figure.... if you can... what sense this all makes. And please come
explain it to the rest of us when you do.

PS: Yahoo's service has gone WAY WAY downhill in the past few months as far
as I am concerned. I have removed my dependencies on them for things like
email, address books,etc because they are becoming so unreliable. Maybe
they have more users than they can handle and this is their way of running
some of them off. Its very effective.

PPS: Regarding a previous post.... and not condoning any statement made
about anybody in here in the past.... is it fair to post thinly veiled
comments in here about individuals who are no longer allowed to respond?
Doesn't seem fair to me. "We" got rid of the people we didn't want to
debate with right? So lets not carry on a "debate" with them in their
absence. Bad form.


[View Quote]

Dec 3, 1999, 1:22am

Yes.... funny.... it says:

" However, a discussion in recent months about defense contractor Lockheed
Martin has been stripped from the Web site for being too controversial. "

and stating that this is a departure from previously understood Yahoo rules:

"Yahoo's previous policy was to remove messages that break securities laws
or contain libelous statements."

So lets not forget here... the issue is not whether or not they are doing a
good job of filtering what gets included in the newsgroup NOW. The issue
is, what will the filter be next week or next month. And will we know
when the filter changes. And will we have any say-so about it. And under
the circumstances, does that filtering increase or decrease the value of
this newsgoup, or any other newsgroup.

I think there is a place for both filtered and unfiltered newsgoups. If
you were to take the AW newsgroup list and show it to a disinterested 3rd
party who is familiar with real netiquette, and ask them... "which of these
would most likely be filtered newsgroups?" The answer would be "beta,
bots, worldbuilders, and maybe wishlist". Those are specific topics that
one would expect a need to monitor for "germaneness". One would NOT
typically assume that a group named "community" would need to be filtered.
And one would not ever expect it to be the ONLY one being filtered.

So go figure.... if you can... what sense this all makes. And please come
explain it to the rest of us when you do.

PS: Yahoo's service has gone WAY WAY downhill in the past few months as far
as I am concerned. I have removed my dependencies on them for things like
email, address books,etc because they are becoming so unreliable. Maybe
they have more users than they can handle and this is their way of running
some of them off. Its very effective.

PPS: Regarding a previous post.... and not condoning any statement made
about anybody in here in the past.... is it fair to post thinly veiled
comments in here about individuals who are no longer allowed to respond?
Doesn't seem fair to me. "We" got rid of the people we didn't want to
debate with right? So lets not carry on a "debate" with them in their
absence. Bad form.


[View Quote]

Dec 3, 1999, 1:23am

Yes.... funny.... it says:

" However, a discussion in recent months about defense contractor Lockheed
Martin has been stripped from the Web site for being too controversial. "

and stating that this is a departure from previously understood Yahoo rules:

"Yahoo's previous policy was to remove messages that break securities laws
or contain libelous statements."

So lets not forget here... the issue is not whether or not they are doing a
good job of filtering what gets included in the newsgroup NOW. The issue
is, what will the filter be next week or next month. And will we know
when the filter changes. And will we have any say-so about it. And under
the circumstances, does that filtering increase or decrease the value of
this newsgoup, or any other newsgroup.

I think there is a place for both filtered and unfiltered newsgoups. If
you were to take the AW newsgroup list and show it to a disinterested 3rd
party who is familiar with real netiquette, and ask them... "which of these
would most likely be filtered newsgroups?" The answer would be "beta,
bots, worldbuilders, and maybe wishlist". Those are specific topics that
one would expect a need to monitor for "germaneness". One would NOT
typically assume that a group named "community" would need to be filtered.
And one would not ever expect it to be the ONLY one being filtered.

So go figure.... if you can... what sense this all makes. And please come
explain it to the rest of us when you do.

PS: Yahoo's service has gone WAY WAY downhill in the past few months as far
as I am concerned. I have removed my dependencies on them for things like
email, address books,etc because they are becoming so unreliable. Maybe
they have more users than they can handle and this is their way of running
some of them off. Its very effective.

PPS: Regarding a previous post.... and not condoning any statement made
about anybody in here in the past.... is it fair to post thinly veiled
comments in here about individuals who are no longer allowed to respond?
Doesn't seem fair to me. "We" got rid of the people we didn't want to
debate with right? So lets not carry on a "debate" with them in their
absence. Bad form.


[View Quote]

Jul 11, 2000, 11:41pm

It is probably being corrupted by the "moderation" process. Note that
anything in thise newgroup that goes over 20k has has a similar result.

Why don't you all just agree to post in the worldbuilders group where
there is no delay. And no distortion. hehe.

[View Quote]

Oct 6, 2000, 8:06pm

Anyone know what the new version of AW is all about (not 3.0) the other one.
I just got a download request now when I signed in. I thought I would
check here for an announcement before I did the download. Of course....no
announcement anywhere that I can find. Hopefully it is intentional and not
something they copied over by mistake. I asked someone who had done the
update and they said they couldn't tell the difference.

Oct 6, 2000, 9:12pm

Thanks... I was advised to read the What's New part of the Help file.

[View Quote]

Oct 6, 2000, 9:14pm

Thank you AW for un-moderating this group. It is now useful again :))

Oct 19, 2000, 12:28am

DEMAND ?? !!

Remember who we are dealing with.
We better have plenty of CAKE.RWX on hand.

(couldn't resist)

[View Quote]

Oct 29, 2000, 9:59pm

The remarks made by "Heartfall Productions" about Casay in this
newsgroup were totally unprofessional, slanderous, and inaccurate.

I have only recently begun experimenting with Accutrans since it now
supports better animation controls than anything else I can find. The
new price makes it a no-brainer. I had never really visited the
Heartfall web site to my knowledge, but looking over there today it
seemed to me a very unlikely place to be selling software of any kind.
Had I gone there before to buy a copy of Accutrans I am sure I would
have thought I had a bad URL. Selling software on a site that promotes
self defense films, make-up, and related products makes about as much
sense as going to a hardware store to buy English muffins.

Generally an exclusive marketing agreement implies that the marketing
company do a whole lot of things to get the product out in front of
potential users. As far as the AW community is concerned it looks like
that job has been getting done by Casay and not by Heartfall. It seems
like they should be thanking her rather than slandering her since they
would have been getting their "cut" no matter what caused the sale to
happen.

I would say that if Heartfall ever had any credibility with the AW
community it has lost it now.

MacB for S3D and associates.


[View Quote]

Nov 4, 2000, 1:56pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C0464B.9112E500
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is exciting !!
I have long thought that there was a high concentration of people who =
need therapy in AW.
*snicker*
[View Quote] Web pages are available here that describe in detail the services that =
Therapy World has to offer the AW community.=20



------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C0464B.9112E500
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is exciting !!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have long thought that there was a high =
concentration of=20
people who need therapy in AW.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>*snicker*</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"katalyzt" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:contact at therapist.net">contact at therapist.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:3A033823.D8FF59EA at therapist.net">news:3A033823.D8FF59EA at ther=
apist.net</A>...</DIV>Therapy=20
World will be open from 7 am VRT on the 4 November 2000.=20
<P>Therapy is a world in which health professionals voluntarily assist =
people=20
to optimize their health status and their understanding of mental =
health.=20
Anyone interested in counselling or therapy services is most welcome =
to visit=20
the world.=20
<P>Web pages are available <A=20
href=3D"http://members.kabsi.at/t01/tw2/index.html">here</A> that =
describe in=20
detail the services that Therapy World has to offer the AW community.=20
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C0464B.9112E500--

Dec 15, 2000, 4:20am

[View Quote] Being critical of a person or a group does not necessarily constitute
hatred. If I walked around with a carrot sticking out of my pants and tell
everyone that I am doing it because of a book I read as a teenager people
are probably going to laugh at me. There is no law in the US against
laughing at people who do goofy things, especially if they go around
BRAGGING about the goofy things they do. There have been several posts with
analysis that would lead one to believe that the Gorian "philosophy" is
actually derived from Nazi writings. While the majority of Goreans in AW
may be responsible in their role playing, there is fairly solid evidence
that among them are "lurkers" just waiting for the chance to do things that
we would all agree are evil. I think it is THAT possibility that scares the
bejesus out of the rest of us. It has more to do with fear than with
hatred.

> Sure the Goreans may be acting stupid but you shouldn't bash them
repeatedly
> in the head with insults, flames and discrimination! Hate in and of itself
> is the ONLY really evil that is occurring.
>
Well, no, there is that little issue of murder. Remember?

> People need ways of winding down and relaxing, if that is by watching the
> mindless crap that is sometimes put on tv, mountain climbing, or
roleplaying
> be it Gor or just old fashion DnD, then so be it. Live and let live. Or as
> the Wiccans say if it harms none then so let it be.
>
Well, your inconsistent here, as you point out below, "wounds of the flesh
may heal, wounds that you inflict on the mind may never heal" and we have no
way of knowing for sure if there is not some among the Goreans that really
need help instead of support for their current state of mind.

> Now realise I intensely dislike Gor for my own reasons (i.e. I was named
> after the main character as one) but I will not make any Gorean feel
> unwelcome for just saying Tal(hello). Amrith (which is a PRIVATE world)
may
> have a "Leave Gor at the door" rule but that is a private world and as
such
> I make the rules there.
One can generalize the "Leave Gore at the door" rule so that they don't feel
picked upon. Well adjusted, mature adults can in the course of ordinary
conversation pick up on the intent of other adults to enter into a
conversation involving sex, or fantasy. I find the idea that some users of
AW think of it as one big online singles bar incredibly amusing. In most
cases I suspect these people are as inept at relationships in real life as
they seem to be online. When the first question someone poses on entering a
world is "A/S/L?" I rarely find that they are interesting people to talk to.
Half the population of AW seems to be about as sophisticated as Beavis and
Butthead. "Hey Bebey". Its very funny stuff, but not something to pattern
your life after. Nor is Gor in my opinion.

>
> But if I remember correctly AWBingo is a PUBLIC world with a rule of NO
> DISCRIMINATION ALLOWED! Remember AWCOM is based in the US and as such must
> follow both State and Federal laws. And as far as the letter of those laws
> go, if you discriminate for any reason you will get thrown in jail and get
a
> really nasty fine.
Um...I don't think so. The laws of the U.S. are not written on a napkin,
but in stacks of book that nobody has yet memorized. Our recent election
demonstrated that a lot of intelligent people can disagree about what the
law actually is at any given instant or in any given location.
Discrimination against someone because of their race, sex, or religion is
certainly frowned on, but as some recent court cases show, (Boy Scouts vs.
the Gay Troop Leader for example) there are exceptions. Basically I think
its the right AND responsibility of the parent to tell their kids about the
Birds and Bees when he time is right. Anyone attempting to introduce the
subject online with a youth deserves all of our scorn. And I don't care
WHAT form their sexuality takes.

>
> So unless you wish AWCI to cease to exist and AW be destroyed because of
> your hate, the SHUT THE at #$% UP! Because if AW were to ban Gor then that
IS
> what is going to happen. The Goreans would file a class action
> discrimination lawsuit against AWCI and the US Government would be forced
to
> take the side of the Goreans and order AWCI to close its doors forever or
> let the Goreans back in.
Yeah, I'm sure it will go straight to the supreme court too. Does that
mean I can put tem out of business when they eject me for using the "S"
word? What's laughable about the AW position is that they are so fanatical
about dirty words, but so lax when it comes to having Gor people involved
with enforcement. They have never been on solid ground in that area, and
probably never will. They will not get put out of business because of a
lawsuit however. People vote with their feet. Nobody's being forced to
use AW. If I had kids I wouldn't let them use it unless I was around.
That's for sure.

>
> Think this IS just like what happened to the blacks in the 1960's and what
> did the gov't do? But FORCE everyone at GUN POINT to let them into the
> schools and restaurants that they were banned from.
Well you've lost me here....now I don't know who's side your on.

>
> You can ban individuals for breaking the rules but you can't ban them
> because of a LABEL that you have put on them. For all you know the Gor you
> are bashing to day may well be a Doctor that could save your life someday.
>
> And if you were doing to me what you are doing to them I sure as heck
would
> let you die!
Fortunately, non of the Gor folk I've seen posting here (or in the Gor
forums) is smart enough to have a medical degree.

>
> Myssie you lost your friends not because they CHOSE Gor but because you
are
> not willing to accept them as they are and support them in what ever they
> do. I know that I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who hated even
a
> part of me. Friendship is the total acceptance of another person. If you
> cannot accept a persons pluses as well as their faults then you are not a
> true friend.
Friends don't let friends drive drunk. Or do any number of other stupid
things. If they persist in doing stupid things, then maybe they were never
your friend in the first place. A healthy dose of DISCRIMINATION is a good
thing when choosing a friend.

>
> Gor may have started out as a game but it has evolved at least in AW in to
a
> culture. And like all cultures it has both its postive and negitive
aspects,
> but it is not our place to decide to judge what they are.
Well if you don't ever want to be judgmental why are you posting here?
Life is so much more interesting when you have opinions about things. Don't
you think?

>
> Do any of you know what its like to be around people that actually hate
you
> and you are unable to make them understand the truth?
Been there, done that.

>
> I may not be a Gorean but I do know what it is like to be the object of
> whispered conversations and the object of someone's hatred, day in and day
> out. Never being able to do anything in their eyes that was right. The
> constant heartache almost killed me.
Want to see my scars?

>
> So when you bash them its like witnessing the horror that I lived through
> happening to someone else. So even though I hate Gor to my core, I will
> defend them until someone puts a bullet in my head.
Um...don't you think you are being a bit extreme? Being bashed is not all
that bad, REALLY. When EEP gives me grief about the way my lines wrap it
rolls of me like water off a duck. I only wish that I had the power to
"bash" someone into seeing things my way.

>
> So before you attack something think, of the pain you may be causing to
> those that you are directing your hate at. Because though wounds of the
> flesh may heal, wounds that you inflict on the mind may never heal.
I am really confused...you say you hate the goreans, but you don't think
other people should hate the goreans. Make up your mind. I don't hate
the goreans, I just don't want them interacting with children, especially
about things pertaining to Gor, and ideally, not at ALL. I think if the
Gor people just stayed in their Gor worlds and never came out recruiting we
would all be much more sanguine about the whole thing. But like many such
groups, their notion of "being left alone" doesn't quite match up with what
the rest of us have in mind.

>
> Trust me I know.
I trust people about as far as I can throw them. Which means I tent to
trust smaller people more. How much do you weigh?

>
[View Quote]

Jan 1, 2001, 3:20pm

Yeah, makes you wonder doesn't it?

Well, we rarely get the full scoop here from AWLD, so we have to make
educated guesses. Which of course has tremendous PR value to the company.

My guess is that they don't even own the server. If you have shopped for
web hosting services you will know that you are often given the option of
hosting your web page on a dedicated server. Someone may still remember
the name of the company AWLD uses for this (the ISP), I don't. With that
companies name, you might be able to see what dedicated services they offer
and how much they cost.

Then I would try and find some info. on the health of that ISP. Maybe they
are struggling to survive and can't afford a lot of backup. Maybe
communications are strained between this company and AWLD over some issue,
billing perhaps?

One of the status messages indicated that the backup server was actually in
a different location, I'm guessing this would be the actual AWLD
headquarters, bolstering my opinion that the normal AW main server is at the
ISP location. The statement that it is a $40,000 server does not imply
that AWLD purchased the machine, only that it was an expensive machine, and
one would expect good support from Sun on it.

Where I work, we buy machines that cost that much and more from Data
General, Compaq, Dell, and Hewlett Packard on a fairly regular basis.
Having bought ONE of these machines does not make you a significant customer
to any of these companies, so you do not get anything special in the way of
support. If you buy 50 of them on the other hand, your sales rep who
collected a nice commission check, will make sure you remain a happy
customer.

The ISP in this case may have been an important customer to Sun at one time,
but if they are not doing too well, i.e. haven't bought anything lately, the
level of support tapers off rather rapidly.

Anyway, my point is that the info from AWLD is sketchy at best probably
because its 3rd hand information by the time we get it.

I'm sure that the technical people involved at AWLD are making the best of a
bad situation. They are smart, honest and dedicated as far as I have been
able to tell.

Well that's for the technical people anyway.

[View Quote]

Jan 18, 2001, 6:08am

Well... you probably won't see this, but for anyone else..... the filters
work great. I have about a dozen people filtered. Before adding each one
I sorted all the messages by name to see if each individual had EVER posted
anything worth reading and in all 12 cases the answer was no.

Now I DO get messages from people complaining about some of these
individuals... but if EVERYONE would just filter them out...the message
traffic here would rapidly die down to those few germane posts a month that
we come here for.

And if ignored significantly enough...these people who are really just
starved for attention REALLY DO go away (or every now and then clean up
their act). It works in newsgroups, it works in chatrooms, and it works in
AW. No need for moderators, censors, overseers or PeasKeepers. All that's
needed is a bit of discipline on YOUR part not to respond to idiocy.

The problem with a moderated group is that you have no control over what
gets filtered. Posts take a day or two to show up (longer when the
moderator in indesposed). We tried that for a while and the junk messages
still got passed into the group... the only messages that got filtered were
based on (for lack of a better term) political correctness. That was when
I stopped reading the groups, and I will again if they get moderated.

Learn to use the tools you have before you go asking someone to do your
thinking for you.

[View Quote]

Jan 25, 2001, 8:21pm

Umm...but not in HTML.

[View Quote]

Jan 30, 2001, 10:26pm

This is the graphics card in a Compaq laptop I am considering. I am
worried that the 8M will be totally inadequate for AW version 3. Has anyone
tried this card successfully (or any other laptop) with AW version 3? I
know Dell has an nVidia based laptop with 32M but I would rather go with
Compaq if I can get away with it.

Feb 6, 2001, 8:21pm

Way to go Facter!!

In my opinion AWCI's relationship with "the community" has improved
significantly since you joined them. Prior to that there existed a "bunker
mentality" that made it clear to us users that we were the enemy.

I have heard more than one AW employee BRAG about not reading the
newsgroups, although they seem to be quite aware of what's going on in them,
presumably by word of mouth from someone who does read them :)

In spite of the fact that there is a percentage of posters here who can't
spell or punctuate, a percentage who have nothing valuable to add to the
discussion, a percentage who's attitude has soured beyond the point of no
return, the newsgroups remain one of the best means of interaction between
the company and its users.

A question answered to one user in a newsgroup may satisfy the needs of
hundreds (unlike e-mail). Similarly, complaints that are without merit are
refuted more effectively here than via Telegram or e-mail. Bad arguments
wilt in the light of day, good arguments flourish. As painful as it may be
for AWCI employee to come here and be berated, that single act, read
through the good stuff and the cr*p, respond calmly, maybe even pick up a
new idea or two, is the most important thing an AWCI employee can do
(assuming the goal is to build a user base).

I urge you to continue reading and posting here, and encourage your
colleagues to do likewise. The cr*p won't go away, but believe me, a
significant number of readers can recognize the truth when it has been
presented.

The bunker mentality makes users feel like the enemy, and then ACT like the
enemy. Companies shrouded in secrecy are generally up to no-good.


[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 12:04am

[View Quote] I had my response all composed in my head on the drive home, and then I read
this post that I am sure is representative of quite a few people.

I HATE when that happens! But it happens all the time to me. Trying to
decide how to vote (in the real world), which organizations to support,
and which to ignore. You gather all the facts, do all your reasoning, make
up your mind. And then you hear about a starving child, or a plane crash or
some other human tragedy that didn't quite fit into your reasoning. Of
course reversing your decision 180 degrees doesn't help, that just fails to
include some other situation.

No well-thought-out logical basis for human action has EVER covered all the
bases. If it had, it would have swept the world by now wouldn't it? One
of these days humanity may stumble upon the magic formula for always making
the right decision, but until then, people will disagree. When people
disagree, they often get very emotional, they say things they don't mean to
say, they say things that they mean one way but which can also be
interpreted in another way.

The decision we are asked to make hinges on this premise:

***"This user has been a source of continuous harassment, abuse, slander,
derogatory remarks, personal insults and defamatory insults."***

Before I go any further I want to make clear that I think Facter is a great
guy, and from my limited exposure to the individuals involved, probably the
best friend the users have within the organization.

Eep on the other hand is somewhat of an a**hole. Although I agree with
most of his positions on things, I have never understood why he feels it
necessary to express himself using such extreme language. He has picked on
me a few times. Frankly I don't give a d*mn about that. I find many of
his posts more amusing than anything else. ( I guess I am now guilty of
those charges too).

Long ago, the new owners of AW promised some form of democracy in AW to
decide all manner of issues. Those promises have long since been forgotten
by what's left of the AW community. The AW community is far diminished in
both quantity and quality from what it once was. A big new infusion of
users from places like Juno, stand some chance of improving the quantity at
least, if in fact those users can be engaged and retained. Its always
possible for AW to tinker here, and tinker there and achieve a balance
between the absolute control that some would like to exercise over that
community and the need for freedom that some of us require to be a part of
it.

When the newsgroups were monitored before I refused to post here. I sent
an email to Rick once and begged him to free it up again. Shortly after
that the monitoring stopped (I am not claiming credit though). Its been a
long gradual road to getting things back to how they used to be (when even
Rick and JP posted occasionally, remember?). The tug of war between
control and freedom that has gone on in this newsgroups is a mirror of what
has happened to AW as a whole. I wish I could say what we are seeing is
two steps forward and one step back, but I am not so sure that is the case.

***"This user has been a source of continuous harassment, abuse, slander,
derogatory remarks, personal insults and defamatory insults."***

The terms of the charges are vague. They could be applied to several other
people here but have not. Will more votes follow shortly? The terms of
the charter for this newsgroup were equally vague, and as we witnessed
during the time when the newsgroup was being monitors, were applied
arbitrarily. We also know that messages were censored during that time
that did not violate ANY of the terms of the charter. Censorship is a very
slippery slope. Need we learn this lesson again?

I'm very sorry that Eep's rude behavior has kept people like "ivie" from
participating. I guess it's not fair to ask people like her to use
filters, or just to ignore such posts. As often as that has been
suggested, there remain a sizable number of people who's curiosity won't let
them ignore a post that they know they will find offensive. There are
people who will worry about reading such posts while they are in school or
at work, when in fact they should be reading any posts there at all. There
are people who cannot express themselves civilly, who get worked up and say
things that don't need to be said to get their point across. Which of
these groups should we decided to discriminate against here?

Democracy. Someone who despises democracy could not have picked a better
way to demonstrate its flaws. When democracy is pitted against freedom,
neither can win.

I abstain from the vote.

This will be my last post here. Goodbye community of AW.

Mar 22, 2001, 3:02am

*breaking vow of silence to post here under the circumstances*

Sorry to hear this. Makes ya mad doesn't it? GRRRR. Most likely a
member of some group of people that are always claiming to be picked on
wherever their name is mentioned. (We all know who I am talking about
right?)

My own experience (with Yahoo clubs) is that only a couple of people have to
get e-mail through to the right person to have these things shut down.
Companies who provide these free services really don't want any waves to be
made. I assure you they do not investigate such complaints, they just weigh
them. The "terms of service" thingies always have a clause that says
something like: " We reserve the right to terminate your service at ay time
without notice or explanation to you". Or as eep is so fond of saying:
"Drive Through".

We can be thankful that AW is back to being an *almost* open forum, but
events from a few months ago demonstrate that all it takes is a small
personality clash for that to change.

I just checked and can't get anything on the old City4all server. I guess
they shut down due to lack of interest. There is the possibility that
someone else could open up a news server or group for community issues, but
I'll warn ya... unless they are running it on their own server and not on a
"leased" server, there is also the possibility that they could lose their
service due to complaints of one sort or another.

My own interest in the future of the nascent "AW Community" is down on the
scale to the place marked "rats-ass", but I *do* still read here and there
and hope that *someday* it will be like it used to be.

Anyway... I think I suggested this once upon a time and the idea didn't
catch on too well... I persist:

Out in the generally circulated newsgroups are two groups alt.3d and
alt.3d.misc both of which are pretty lightly traveled because anyone who has
a lot to say about Truespace for example would post in alt.3d.truespace.

Perfection would be achieved if there was an alt.3d.activeworlds, but for
that to happen there has to be traffic, and for there to be traffic, we have
to stop venting in freebee forums, message boards and the like. Existence
of such publicly circulated and not centrally controlled newsgroups (think
Gnutella) is what spurs many companies to form their own local newsgroups in
the first place. Read the Microsoft newsgroup on Outlook Express, and
compare it with a public version of same. The tone can be quite different
at times. Microsoft would rather let people post to *their* server even if
they have nothing but complaints. They always have the option of deleting
that occasional really damaging post that way.

I ramble.

Suffice it to say I *love* the public newsgroups (think Gnutella) and still
think they are a viable outlet for *all* AW users (even tourists).

I posted a message in each of the above cited groups using one news server I
use, and 2 minutes later read them using another. The system works good.
Think about it.

*retreats to cave*

[View Quote]

Aug 10, 2001, 2:41am

Try hitting ESC during a long message download. Works for me.

I have DSL at home, but often have to dial in from other places and get
28.8 - 56k range. I don't think I have ever had anything happen to me on
the internet that I couldn't stop one way or the other.

Under Linux I use about 3 different new readers. All allow you to cancel.

Been a long time since I used Free Agent though. Maybe it lacks that
function. Outlook Express is pretty good if you have to use Windows.

Regarding my large post. I had ACTUALLY indented to imbed the LINKS to the
pictures rather than the pictures themselves. Would have still have been a
big download for anyone who tried to read the messages, but would have only
been a few hundred characters on the server. I should have just coded the
HTML by hand to be sure. Outlook Express took it upon itself to embed the
content of the pictures.

I think there is an option for that, but I RARELY post binary data to
newsgroups so I haven't played with it much. I agree that most posting to
newsgroups should be text only. But...a foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of small minds. Or something.

Sorry if I ruined anyones day with that HORRIFIC download. Its been fun
trying to figure out the speed of your modems based on how many HOURS it
took to read that message. I didn't know they still made modems at 10
baud. AW GZ must take MONTHS !! *GAFAW*.

Banning myself from this newsgroup again. So long!!


[View Quote]

Nov 5, 2001, 11:31pm

That URL can't be right. 192.168.x.x is reserved for internal networks
(as supported by most DSL routers these days). You need to find out
what your EXTERNAL address is for anyone to hit your server. Also, if
your set-up is like mine, just because you can see your server doesn't
mean people on the outside can. These same gadgets also have basic
firewall functionality that keeps unsolicited IP traffic from getting
through to any of your machines. There are usually options to override
this behavior though.


You might want to look into something like http://dns2go.deerfield.com/
as a way to get an external name for your server. It will even keep up
with changing IP addresses if you don't have a fixed address.

Good luck
:)

[View Quote] > Hey everyone:)
>
> Well...now I'm on yet a new idea again!
> Please visit http://192.168.1.103/csi3d.html and let me know what you
> think:)
> Any input is greatly appreciated!
> We are hoping to give folks the opportunity for exposure of their works
> and talents without having to be rich people to execute it.
> I am wide open to suggestions and ideas.
> Also, if you are interested in having some space...please email me:)
> I know some of you do hand crafts...some virtual crafts.
> Just about anything can be consigned for this realm.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> AlphaBit Phalpha
> alphabit at swbell.net
>
>
> --
> The Cy Awards
> www.awcommunity.org/cyawards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dec 3, 2001, 4:03am

Ejection for acting like a moron? Is that a new clause in some
guidelines somewhere? No wonder the AW numbers are down!

[View Quote] > I didnt eject you for saying fetish, i ejected you for acting like a moron.
>
>
> -Xel
>
[View Quote]

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