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Dec 6, 2001, 1:05am

And what H*** kind of trip are YOU on?

This is about the third time you have referred to another AW user as a
moron in the newsgroups and used profanity in the process. It would
seem to me, that in addition to being a bit trigger happy, you are in
violation of AW guidelines:

" * Please do not insult other tourists or citizens by use of
inflammatory or offensive statements or images. We ask that you refrain
from expressions of bigotry, racism, hatred, or profanity. Please do not
harass other users, including verbal abuse or personal attacks."

Do you represent AW in these matters? If you were the responsible type
of person that AW should be trusting with such powers I think YOU would
have simply let the matter drop by now rather than continuing the name
calling.

I don't know you or your adversary in this, but it represents the worst
in AW's stewardship of its products that they would continue to apply
their own "guidelines" so inconsistently. That is what continues to
drive away users from this program, particularly the mature ones.



[View Quote] > What the hell kinda trip you on?
>
> "I dont know if this happens a lot but a bot will come along and teleport
> me like to 5000a and to other worlds called 'gay' or 'trekisgay' and stuff
> like that... Cuz it isnt the first time its happend...."
>
> A. No bots can be within 200m of the customs aide unless they are under the
> caretaker ppw (which only brant and awc staff have)
>
> B. 2000a is the maximum elevation
>
> C. A bot can only warp/teleport people if it has eject, and I know everyone
> who has eject pretty well, and although some of us may have that kind of
> sense of humor, none of us use the word "gay" as an insult, so you wouldnt
> have been teleported to those worlds.
>
> D. Yeah I was screwing with the IO, its fun :P
>
>
> -Xel
>
> PS. I find it amusing how this thread has gone on so long repeating the same
> 3 points over and over lol (1. the eject was justified; 2. he should have
> been warned; 3. he is a moron).
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Dec 3, 2001, 4:09am

Well I forgot all about the things this year. But when I went in to
look at the winners I could only see 3 avatars on the list. I
rebooted, cleared cache, all the usual fixes. Just 3 avatars. So
there is more that's broken than just the bot in that world. FWIW.

[View Quote] > In regards to the popular vote that took place at Avatars 2001, there is no
> way it could be considered fair, and I will request that this matter be
> looked into by digigardener and others.
>
> The bot did not work properly.
> At times, the bot was not present.
> Downloads in progress were halted/crashes occured as follows:
>
> AWORLD caused an invalid page fault in
> module AWORLD.EXE at 018f:00428812.
> Registers:
> EAX=00000000 CS=018f EIP=00428812 EFLGS=00010246
> EBX=00000004 SS=0197 ESP=0076f3e0 EBP=00000000
> ECX=00000000 DS=0197 ESI=00000000 FS=191f
> EDX=00000052 ES=0197 EDI=00000005 GS=0000
> Bytes at CS:EIP:
> 8a 45 00 8b f0 83 fe 10 76 78 83 fe 63 0f 84 40
> Stack dump:
> 0000011b 00000000 00000052 00000005 00000000 00429311 00429367 00000000
> 00000000 004293b5 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
>
> If voting practices such as this are allowed to be continued, we cannot call
> ourselves a fair virtual society with decent moral character.
>
> I suggest anyone that was unable to fully download and/or vote properly at
> this event write to the coordinators of the event to protest such unfair
> practices.
>
> Sinew
>
>
>

Jan 9, 2002, 4:17am

AW was ugly and unintuitive when I started using it. I struggled and
struggled to get walls to line up, didn't know most of the object names.
I went through a LONG learning curve with Truespace (plus it crashed
regularly for me until R5).

Anyway, Atmosphere will improve, and, unless they suddenly decide to can
the project will have lots of money behind it to make it a success.
They also seem to be listening to users.. very easy to engage them in a
dialog. They even read and post to their own newsgroups (what a concept!!).

There are a number of open source initiatives in the 3D area that will
also eventually bear fruit. The fact that many of the animation studios
are switching over to Linux based rendering engines... well what can
that mean but more 3D stuff to choose from over there.

IRC is alive and kicking after all these years, and the server and
client software are rather sophisticated these days (and source code is
downloadable). Rendering engine + Chat program + bit of glueware. I
expect to see things for Linux, Apple, and maybe even Windoze in a year
or so. Don't forget... we may be throwing away our PCs and using game
consoles in the future. The X-box and Playstation future version will
not only have 3D built in, but be full time internet connections with
full blow operating systems (Linux). (Don't forget the graphics on the
Playstation are Renderware already!) The PC really is becoming an
appliance (look at those new Macs!!). The future is now my friends.

As someone reminded me today.... I love AW. But the company as far as
I can tell has cut itself off from its user base. It's been like that
so long that I don't expect it to change. Ever.

Boycott... strike... petition... fast... won't make any difference.
They ain't listening. Sit back and watch, and wait. That's all we
can do.

Be on the lookout for other ways to spend your time.


[View Quote] > By the way, what are your impressions about Atmosphere?
> I tried it a bit... and it... well... sucks. It's ugly and unintuitive (and I hate things integrated in the browser instead of a
> good old stand alone app that you have more control over)
>
> How does everyone feel about this? And what about other existing 3d chat programs?
>
> Fox Mc Cloud
>
>
>

Jan 13, 2002, 5:12pm

NO! Keep those metaphors coming!

We need metaphors, they are like the flakes of show that collect in the
corner of our window panes, framing our view of the world.

Or something.

[View Quote] > HUH? could you talk normally and not in metaphores please? lol
>
> KAH
>
[View Quote]

Jan 17, 2002, 2:55am

[View Quote] >
> To the best of my knowledge, in 7 years here (when the groups been
> open), no-one has EVER been banned from here for being against AW, or
> posting about their SEC reports or their policies, or anything that
> can be discussed by rational people whatever their view.
>




Possibly not banned.

Had someone mentioned SEC reports earlier in this thread? I missed it
I guess. That acronym gets my attention:

I had several SEC related posts deleted a couple years ago. I then
posted them over at Andras's and some folk asked me why not post them in
the AW newsgroups. When I told them what had happened, they were
skeptical so I advised them to try it for themselves. They were able to
reproduce my results.

These newsgroups have gone through 4 phases as I recall. (1) at first
there was no moderation and probably none needed. (2) when AW went
public there was fairly heavy moderation for a while, then (3) the
newsgroups were taken down entirely, and (4) since they have been back
it is as you described.

I have always said that the company has the right to run these
newsgroups any way they want, and we as users really have no rights
(except maybe to get a refund). Free speech is not an issue here.

As someone who wants AW to succeed I have very strong opinions about how
the company should interact with its users. I believe in a fairly low
level of censorship... practically none in fact. A carefull reader can
tell when a newsgroup such as this is being heavily manipulated, so
doing so is counterproductive. I also believe that AW should post
responses to users concerns here. That does not mean respond to every
single message, but when there is substantial user concern about an
issue, this is the best place for the company to go "on the record"
about how they feel.

Failure to respond regularly "on the record" to users concerns simply
gives users the sense that something fishy is going on. Many of the
negative posts here are manifestations of that uneasiness.

Posting here has the advantage over having meetings in AW in that the
post can be carefully considered (run by a lawyer perhaps) whereas
statements made in informal meetings might be imprecise and lead to more
confusion than clarification.

I don't attempt to post SEC URL's here any more, but since you mentioned
it, anyone who is interested in learning about what the company is up
too should take a look. Those reports contain good news and bad news.
They are mandated by law... but as we have seen recently with ENRON,
don't always reflect reality. They are also rather long (150 pages or
so) and hard to find. The law requires them to be based on truth but
they often contain creative language, such that you have to read between
the lines (Not just AW's, but everyone's).

As a wise person stated earlier... there is no substitute for cold hard
facts. (But that doesn't stop some people from trying).


>
> PS it was a lot worse last time than this time:)
>


PPS: Are you referring to when they instituted the original $20
registration? I'm not sure I would agree that that was worse. It
might have SEEMED worse, because many who objected simply refused to pay
the $20 and became tourists. They were still around to protest though,
and could even post in the newsgroups at the time I believe. (That was
soon changed in fact).

This time, a whole class of user has been made to disappear almost
overnight. I'm sure if they had a way to voice their opinions it would
be very loud.

Democracy is not the issue though. The issue is public relations. AW
does it poorly IMNSHO.

Feb 24, 2002, 1:17am

[View Quote] > Everything is terrible, awcom is evil, so and so is always complaining, you
> can't tell me to shut up because freedom of speech. You don't understand
> freedom of speech because your not as mature as me. Yeah well I'm more
> mature than you because you said "your" instead of "you're" No, I'm more
> mature than you. You're spamming. No I'm not. I'm going to complain about
> some super trivial harmless thing like it's a crime against humanity. It's
> no crime, I hate you. I hate you more. Go to my website. You're website is
> a copy of my website. I'm going to sue you. No you can't I'll sue you
> first. You don't know about the law because you're not as smart as me. No
> way, I'm smarter than you. Yeah well my aw related service is the best. No
> way, mine is better and I'm going to sue you for saying something I didn't
> like. No way you can't sue over that. Hey guys! We just had a
> conversation about sueing, you're a twit idiot for not remembering that.
> Yeah, well you suck.
>
> I say we just take down the NGs and any time anyone wants to visit they just
> read the above a few times. I certainly couldn't tell the difference.
>
>
>

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

This newsgroups is mild compared to many of the advocacy newsgroups on
the net. But maybe for people who feel like you there should be a group
called niceynicey or something.

I spent the first 3 or so years of my AW existence promoting it and
defending it against almost all criticisms just like you are doing now.
I didn't even get a T-shirt for my trouble. Maybe they pay you better.

In any event, I'll go back to defending them when I think they deserve
it. Frankly I don't expect that to happen. But there is always that
chance.

Why don't you just filter those you don't like to hear from, then you
can pretend that everything is OK in AWland. Won't bother me any if
you do that.

I think customers of any product have an unwritten "duty" to complain to
the company when things are not to their liking. Usually when one of
these issues comes up I speak my mind once, then respond to anyone who
addresses my post directly. What makes the threads irritating to me are
the people who's names appear dozens of time and who's posts often
consist of quoting someone else's post entirely and then adding: "Well
said" or "That's baloney", or "Its JUST a bot". Those are true
bandwidth, and time wasters.

If someone thinks that spy bot is the greatest thing since sliced bread,
then tell the rest of us why. Then while your at it, tell the rest of
us why it could not have been announced in advance. Also add a list of
other things that YOU think it would be OK for AWLD to do with the
backdoor citizen 1 privileges. And if you have time, tell us of
anything you think should be off limits for that backdoor.

That's really what this debate is about, and I have heard precious
little justification from the other side other than trite remarks like
"What's the big deal?"

Your post above, while amusing, won't convince one of us to stop
complaining, so you better come up with some real arguments if you hope
to do that. Otherwise, use the filter. AWLD filtered us a long time ago.

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