Uniserver? (Community)

Uniserver? // Community

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your hiroshi

Jan 11, 2002, 11:21pm
I may be way off base here, but what role does the uniserver play in AW?

To my understanding, it provides 2 functions:

1) One central database of all users.
This allows for telegrams, and authentication.
2) One central database of all worlds.
This provides the "worlds" list.

Now I don't see the uniserver being a resource-intensive, supercomputing
sort of thing.

The server application that runs a world does most of the heavy lifting. The
services provided by the uniserver could be very lightweight a la Naptser.
Directory services. Just use LDAP or whatever.

The only reason the Uniserver is essential is because the architecture was
deliberately created to fail without it.

a) You should be able to visit someone's world server simply by typing a URL
in.
b) Telegrams are not super-essential in the world of Instant Messenger, but
could be provided via any number of IM or mail systems.
c) A web server running an application that lists any world server that is
registered with it, and provides a clickable URL to that server, should be
easy to implement. (Such as OnLive Traveller.)

What is my point? It should cost next-to-nothing to maintain the core
functionality of AW, AS-IS, use-at-your-own-risk, RTFM.

your hiroshi

Jan 11, 2002, 11:29pm
BTW, I pay approx. $US 134.00 PER MONTH for my cable modem. If AW continues
to provide value, I will pay the price they demand.

joeman

Jan 12, 2002, 12:45am
It does take a lot of bandwidth, not as much as the world server, but still
a lot. Also, you need to support all the data from the citizen database,
and worlds database. Sure, you could run one off of a 56k, 486 machine, but
it would be slow, very slow. Even off of a cable modem, I suppose, it would
be slow. Also, in the early days of AW, there was a website kicked out by
the uniserver that you could click a link and goto a world. I do think that
it is a good idea to separate the world from the universe a little more than
it is. Like, you could connect or "dock" your world in a universe, or
universes. But, you could also get to it by clicking a link, such as
awhl:\\aspect.ath.cx:7777\\a'odd.

Just my thoughts :)

-Joe


[View Quote]

blasto

Jan 12, 2002, 1:19am
It doesn't take bandwidth to create a list!
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joeman

Jan 12, 2002, 1:44am
Think of it this way, the current list is 24kb long, well, a little less.
It was 24kb long when all the 3dhomepages were there, so, this math is
predicting how much AW pushed out during the height of 3DHP. So, simple
math, 24 x 486 (current users on at the moment, there were many more on at
the height of 3DHP) = 11664. So, 11 MB every 30 seconds for the world list.
So, about 2880 of these happen per day. Just estimating, simple math again,
2880 x 11664 = 33592320kb, that's about 3,359 MB, which is 3GB a day, just
for the world list. If that isn't enough bandwidth, add contact list,
telegram, and world information inquires. All those add up. 3.3GB alone is
a huge amount. So, it does take bandwidth to create a list.

Now, this number could be off by like, 500 MB, because you don't always have
486 users on at a time, sometimes you have less, sometimes more. It would
be interesting to see someone create a bot that would gauge the bandwidth
coming out of the AW uniserver. Oh, don't forget about 24/7 bots that are
running around AW.

Also, add to the bandwidth world heartbeats, client heartbeats, bot
heartbeats, world license information, citizen logon and registration, etc.
It could get up to a very BIG number.

I could be waaaaaaaaayyyyyyy off with this, but, I don't think I am.

-Joe

[View Quote]

foxmccloud

Jan 12, 2002, 1:49am
AW could be sparing a lot of bandwidth by only sending the changes when they occur instead of the whole list each time, since it's
99% the same every 30 seconds (that is, all the names identical and most worlds at 0 citizens)...

Fox Mc Cloud

"joeman" <Joeman at bootdown.com> a écrit dans le message news: 3c3fb115$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Think of it this way, the current list is 24kb long, well, a little less.
> It was 24kb long when all the 3dhomepages were there, so, this math is
> predicting how much AW pushed out during the height of 3DHP. So, simple
> math, 24 x 486 (current users on at the moment, there were many more on at
> the height of 3DHP) = 11664. So, 11 MB every 30 seconds for the world list.
> So, about 2880 of these happen per day. Just estimating, simple math again,
> 2880 x 11664 = 33592320kb, that's about 3,359 MB, which is 3GB a day, just
> for the world list. If that isn't enough bandwidth, add contact list,
> telegram, and world information inquires. All those add up. 3.3GB alone is
> a huge amount. So, it does take bandwidth to create a list.
>
> Now, this number could be off by like, 500 MB, because you don't always have
> 486 users on at a time, sometimes you have less, sometimes more. It would
> be interesting to see someone create a bot that would gauge the bandwidth
> coming out of the AW uniserver. Oh, don't forget about 24/7 bots that are
> running around AW.
>
> Also, add to the bandwidth world heartbeats, client heartbeats, bot
> heartbeats, world license information, citizen logon and registration, etc.
> It could get up to a very BIG number.
>
> I could be waaaaaaaaayyyyyyy off with this, but, I don't think I am.
>
> -Joe
>
[View Quote]

joeman

Jan 12, 2002, 1:57am
Or even communicating the choice of only sending only full worlds, or only
open worlds to the browser. But, AWC should do something about the
bandwidth. They are rough numbers, but, big numbers. Good thing they don't
have to pay for bandwidth by the MB, or they would have gone broke years
ago.

-Joe

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trekkerx

Jan 12, 2002, 4:55am
Or how bout just sending changes and not the entire list when it changes...

--
TrekkerX
Commatron & Athnex
http://www.commatron.com
http://www.athnex.com
[View Quote]

andras

Jan 12, 2002, 5:03am
[View Quote] AW actually sending only the changes - not the full list :)

Andras

<quote from SDK>
Applications can use aw_world_list to query the universe server for a list of all worlds
running in the universe. Previously (before build 20), the entire list would be returned in
response to a single call to aw_world_list. However, that mechanism could not handle
a list of more than 750 worlds. Since the number of worlds in the main AW universe is
now well over 750, this mechanism has been changed beginning in build 20. It now
may require more than one call to aw_world_list in order to get the complete list of
worlds. Furthermore, subsequent calls to aw_world_list will only return the changes
since the previous call; the entire list is only returned once per login session, on the first
call or series of calls.
</quote>

joeman

Jan 12, 2002, 4:33pm
Ah, thanks for the info :)

-Joe

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your hiroshi

Jan 12, 2002, 6:30pm
Well it's not the bandwidth that matters, anymore than the cost of keeping
the British army stationed in the New World Colonies mattered. What matters
is that the Colonists were getting a small amount of protection at a high
price; the price was not simply taxes.... In exchange for having some basic
needs badly met, they paid with their liberty and their dignity.

kah

Jan 13, 2002, 1:10pm
HUH? could you talk normally and not in metaphores please? lol

KAH

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macb

Jan 13, 2002, 5:12pm
NO! Keep those metaphors coming!

We need metaphors, they are like the flakes of show that collect in the
corner of our window panes, framing our view of the world.

Or something.

[View Quote] > HUH? could you talk normally and not in metaphores please? lol
>
> KAH
>
[View Quote]

bowen

Jan 13, 2002, 5:14pm
> NO! Keep those metaphors coming!
>
> We need metaphors, they are like the flakes of show that collect in the
> corner of our window panes, framing our view of the world.
>
> Or something.

LoL it's harder for non-native English speakers to understand. It's better
to use small metaphor's that make sense, then to use abstract ones to prove
a point that no one understood in the first place.

--Bowen--

grimble

Jan 13, 2002, 5:14pm
*sigh* 4 generations later with all the changes in the world and all you can
come up with is crowbarring a some lame analogy into the thread? Besides,
the difference here is that you have a choice - you can stop paying the
"taxes".

Grims

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your hiroshi

Jan 13, 2002, 5:32pm
I am sorry. I did not express myself well.

I am trying to make a comment on the Uniserver. The Uniserver is an
essential component of AW. Why?

It is NOT essential for technical reasons. That is my point. The Uniserver
is essential because it makes AW into a service which you can charge your
customers for.

grimble

Jan 13, 2002, 5:37pm
And the point is??

[View Quote]

bowen

Jan 13, 2002, 5:41pm
I think he wants the browser to be stand-alone like a webbrowser, and worlds
would be standalone from a server. So you'd type the IP into a teleport to
and you could go to the world? It's too hard to decipher what it is exactly
he wants.

--Bowen--

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grimble

Jan 13, 2002, 5:51pm
I just don't understand why someone can't see that the ability to charge
your customers IS THE POINT. :o\

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kah

Jan 13, 2002, 7:07pm
lol, I didn't get what he was saying because it was very cryptic and a
metaphor (obviously this is the right spelling) to a part of American
history I know nearly nothing about. Obviously it was just reformulation of
his original idea which I understood loud and clearly, I don't get the point
of reposting with weird metaphors...

KAH

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sw chris

Jan 13, 2002, 7:51pm
Kah, he was talking about the Independance of the New World colonies from
Britain. They became the United States. ^_^

SW Chris

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young phalpha

Jan 14, 2002, 1:33am
HamFon once told me theres something like 300 some bots he runs alot (most likely 24/7)

[View Quote] Now, this number could be off by like, 500 MB, because you don't always have
486 users on at a time, sometimes you have less, sometimes more. It would
be interesting to see someone create a bot that would gauge the bandwidth
coming out of the AW uniserver. Oh, don't forget about 24/7 bots that are
running around AW.

Also, add to the bandwidth world heartbeats, client heartbeats, bot
heartbeats, world license information, citizen logon and registration, etc.
It could get up to a very BIG number.

I could be waaaaaaaaayyyyyyy off with this, but, I don't think I am.

-Joe

[View Quote]

your hiroshi

Jan 15, 2002, 2:00am
Okay, okay. I'm not a Marxist, Open-Sourcer, and clearly I am imprecise and
inarticulate. Really, it's just a musing. I am not trying to make a stink as
much as an aroma of curiousity.

I created this post in response to the threads I read recently about how if
AW ran out of money they could not afford to maintain the Uniserver. As if
the Uniserver was this big, expensive, funds-guzzling beast that demanded
too much upkeep. And my response has been to state that:

Uniserver is to AW
as
Toll Booth is to Bridge

(it's not the Bridge, it's where you pay your money!)

But I suppose that I have been stubborn, and really it's not just a toll
booth... But other than the toll-collecting part, it's other services are
not that impressive and not critical to how we use AW.

If anyone cannot clearly see my analogy, please see me after class. I am a
client-server architect, and this sort of thing; the classification of the
various sources and sinks in a commercial internet application, and how it
applies to an attempt to make revenue, it's fascinating to me.

I agree that AW needs to make money. I pay them well and I am not about to
stop payment. But I do not have a shred of pity for their situation. I am
impressed that they have acquired another company! I think that is quite
cool.

I'll abandon this post. I don't like rotten tomatoes anymore than anyone
else does.

sw chris

Jan 15, 2002, 3:17am
Or Killer Tomatos either. ;)

SW Chris
"Attack! Of the killer tomatos!"

[View Quote]

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