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Feb 19, 2002, 2:46pm

Has any one noticed how obsolete Alpha World is? It's avatars are tinny, the
objects are a hodge podge of left-overs and the vast majority of the older
builds are as good as destroyed by revisions to the browser.

Has any one stopped to wonder, what sort of a drain on AWcorps resources
this out of date world is? As you already know, further upgrades to the
browser are made difficult as the developers attempt ( and don't always
succeed) to make new compatible with the old. Lets face it, after 7 years
Alpha is sad and tired and pulls down the general standard of the
ActiveWorlds experience for newbies. And the life blood of any community AND
company is newbies.

As much as I love Alpha World and her many beautiful builds I firmly believe
that it should pass on. With enough warning that citizens can transfer their
builds and any others that are worth saving to a new world and make the
necessary changes that it would take, only the unwanted rubbish would be
left behind. It is important that any product keep up with the times in
order to be a viable option as a marketable asset and our sentiment for old
Alpha is going to destroy that and our community.

I know ppl are going to be upset by this view but stop and think before you
post a negative response. How many ppl see AW GZ as sadly in need of a
refit? Compare Alpha World to many other worlds. The answer is obvious, the
old girl has seen better days.

We want this software to continue and grow , both for AW's good and our own.
The more newbies that we can impress with the technology and with our
community , the more chance we ALL have of staying in our virtual home away
from home.

Feb 19, 2002, 3:12pm

I don't know about anyone else, but I enjoy building in AW :). It's always
fun to go exploring and find old buildings and see how they were built with
the old browsers.

I'd like to keep AW, although it is falling apart :). Maybe AW should
revamp the GZ (with the old objects and not with those new ones). Maybe
it's just me but those new ones drop framerates down badly.

-silenced

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 3:35pm

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. If you
think maintaining AW is a problem for AWC, imagine the fiasco that will
be created when you tell everyone that AW will be shut down and there is
mass propdumping in whatever world takes over. It would be a nightmare!

Not only that, but this new world would have to have objects that are at
least *very* similar to the ones in AW, otherwise your build would be
completely ruined. Therefore, you'd essentially have to make a copy of
the AW OP, which would defeat the purpose entirely!

I can understand where you're coming from, but it sounds to me like you
don't get out (in AW) much, no offense. Granted, the Ground Zero area is
definitely a mess and there are plenty of random, half-finished builds
scattered around the world, but it's still only %1 used up! It's not as
if we're running out of room any time soon. And there's plenty of
worthwhile builds all around AW that would take way too much effort to
try and preserve in a propdump. (SW City, anyone? :P)

While I do agree that the AW Universe could stand to see a new public
building world, it's obvious that AlphaWorld's popularity is far from
waning. AW has consistently been the #1 world on the Universe list since
it came into being all those years ago, and it's there for a reason.
Until AW starts to put up numbers like WildAW, I don't think AW needs to
go anywhere.

Besides, I've noticed that AWites tend to cling rather closely to their
virtual history and heritage. I doubt they'd let it go so easily...

[View Quote] > Has any one noticed how obsolete Alpha World is? It's avatars are tinny, the
> objects are a hodge podge of left-overs and the vast majority of the older
> builds are as good as destroyed by revisions to the browser.
>
> Has any one stopped to wonder, what sort of a drain on AWcorps resources
> this out of date world is? As you already know, further upgrades to the
> browser are made difficult as the developers attempt ( and don't always
> succeed) to make new compatible with the old. Lets face it, after 7 years
> Alpha is sad and tired and pulls down the general standard of the
> ActiveWorlds experience for newbies. And the life blood of any community AND
> company is newbies.
>
> As much as I love Alpha World and her many beautiful builds I firmly believe
> that it should pass on. With enough warning that citizens can transfer their
> builds and any others that are worth saving to a new world and make the
> necessary changes that it would take, only the unwanted rubbish would be
> left behind. It is important that any product keep up with the times in
> order to be a viable option as a marketable asset and our sentiment for old
> Alpha is going to destroy that and our community.
>
> I know ppl are going to be upset by this view but stop and think before you
> post a negative response. How many ppl see AW GZ as sadly in need of a
> refit? Compare Alpha World to many other worlds. The answer is obvious, the
> old girl has seen better days.
>
> We want this software to continue and grow , both for AW's good and our own.
> The more newbies that we can impress with the technology and with our
> community , the more chance we ALL have of staying in our virtual home away
> from home.
>
>
>


--
Goober King
Can't we all just let it go?
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Feb 19, 2002, 4:53pm

I do agree that the world is far outdated but i do not think it should be
deleted. Yes it could use more avs and the gz could use soem work but i dont
want it to look like awgate becuase AW was the first and only world there
was back in 1997 (i think thats when it started) and its so much a part of
activeworlds history it cannot totally be deleted or replaced.

I do think that a new building world might do better but it would have to
have a lot of the newer avs they have been working on (i think they look
better) and definitly new objects (maybe actually puting those 3d homepage
objects in like they were supposed to do).

The builds need to stay but the gz could be made to look better which
wouldnt maek it look so old and the avs, like i said, all that would make it
look a littl ebetter but a new buildign world is a better choice then to
completley replace it.

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 5:14pm

Whoa! :-) I usually agree with your ideas, kellee, but not on this. Granted I've become very discouraged with many of the business decisions AWC has made. As I've told you before, as much as I love building in this program (and on Alphaworld in particular) I could uninstall and walk away from all this, including my buildings on Alphaworld, without a backward glance. However, as long as the activeworlds program exists (and I hope it will continue a long, long time) I really would not want to see Alphaworld closed to continued building.

Some see "eyesores" and "rubbish" all over Alphaworld. I see creative things still going up on Alphaworld constantly. Alphaworld is vast enough to hold it all. 99% of Alphaworld is still bare land, or so I've heard.

Alphaworld is still the public building world of choice for most builders who don't own a world themselves. And why is that? Maybe it's precisely *because* of the eclectic mix of objects and textures (old, new, newer, newest) that people can choose to build with. Maybe it's the sheer size of the world - big enough to hold both rubbish (eyesores to some, unique virtual history to others) as well as beautiful work (again, in the eye of the beholder). Even after all these years and many other "prettier" worlds people could choose to build on, Alphaworld continues to "live, breathe and grow" very vigorously.

To me, Alphaworld holds a unique place in a very unique program. As the first, oldest, and for quite awhile, "only" world, *all* of Alphaworld is an *ongoing* virtual "historical" event. I personally have always felt that "rubbish" on Alphaworld should be left intact - not "cleaned up" as so many have called for so many times.

If Alphaworld is a drain on the resources, then "community" is a drain on the resources, too. The existing builds by "Tourist", NAC, and by hundreds of expired cit names/numbers all over Alphaworld, even if the build consists of nothing more than a couple of overlapping floors or a sign saying "So and So was here", ALL are part of the history of this most unique program.

I know you are not saying delete them, kellee. You are saying just close down Alphaworld to continued building. Let people just "bot" their builds to another world if they want to. (I would not.) Certainly AWC could open up yet another public building world and promote it as the "main" public building world. Anyone who wants to "move on" to another public building world can sure do that. But you know what? I'll bet Alphaworld would still remain the most popular public building world, no matter what. AWC could even go so far as to hide the world name "AW" from the worlds list, take it off the teleport gate, not ever mention Alphaworld again. But as long as Alphaworld exists for public building, I'll betcha' the majority of people (new registered people, too) who don't own a world will find their way there to build...on good old Alphaworld, warts and all.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If the day ever comes that public building is disabled on Alphaworld, that will be the last day I doubleclick the Activeworlds icon on my desktop.

Lara

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 5:55pm

I agree, but I don't think you're going far enough.
Alpha world and any other world with aw objects must go. Also any world
with overlapping objects, tacky textures, cob objects, poorly converted
objects resulting in missing quads, poorly converted objects resulting in
way too many quads, "paintball" worlds, 3d homepages, worlds with no theme,
worlds with a theme but a poor one, worlds full of kids constantly talking
about hacking and being at war with other worlds and spending 90% of the
time arguing about "ranks" in the world leading to too many people with
rights and the world getting vandilized then complaining to awcom, worlds
with really really slow paths, worlds with anoying lighting, worlds with no
shift and avatar collisions resulting in a ton of people stuck at gz,
really nice looking awcom worlds created on a poorly thought out corporate
whim that sit empty and useless, worlds with owners that if you point out an
error or problem in an objective mannor they get all huffy and upset like
it's a personal attack, and any other world that for some reason or another
I don't like.

It is the will of Landrew!

Feb 19, 2002, 6:09pm

yeah sure,everything that is not the latest is bad,it sounds a bit like the
goverment in my country;you do not drive a new car you are a crook.We need
to punish ppl who do not keep up with the development.
What I would suggest is that Alpha would remain the historical building
world,where ppl learn to build using their imagination,instead of having one
piece houses and mountains with who any idiot can build a fair looking
place.Go explore Alpha a bit and you will find things you have to click on
to figure out how they are done,you will also find places where you go "wow
I never thought of doing that".Since Activeworlds now have become greedy and
started to charge more for their services ,I think they could offer a new
large public building world with a lot of objects,the newset and most fancy
things.Maybe a place where ppl could donate things ,in other words a big OP
with a lot to choose from.

Drac
kellee <kellee at my.activeworlds.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:3c728164 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Has any one noticed how obsolete Alpha World is? It's avatars are tinny,
the
> objects are a hodge podge of left-overs and the vast majority of the older
> builds are as good as destroyed by revisions to the browser.
>
> Has any one stopped to wonder, what sort of a drain on AWcorps resources
> this out of date world is? As you already know, further upgrades to the
> browser are made difficult as the developers attempt ( and don't always
> succeed) to make new compatible with the old. Lets face it, after 7 years
> Alpha is sad and tired and pulls down the general standard of the
> ActiveWorlds experience for newbies. And the life blood of any community
AND
> company is newbies.
>
> As much as I love Alpha World and her many beautiful builds I firmly
believe
> that it should pass on. With enough warning that citizens can transfer
their
> builds and any others that are worth saving to a new world and make the
> necessary changes that it would take, only the unwanted rubbish would be
> left behind. It is important that any product keep up with the times in
> order to be a viable option as a marketable asset and our sentiment for
old
> Alpha is going to destroy that and our community.
>
> I know ppl are going to be upset by this view but stop and think before
you
> post a negative response. How many ppl see AW GZ as sadly in need of a
> refit? Compare Alpha World to many other worlds. The answer is obvious,
the
> old girl has seen better days.
>
> We want this software to continue and grow , both for AW's good and our
own.
> The more newbies that we can impress with the technology and with our
> community , the more chance we ALL have of staying in our virtual home
away
> from home.
>
>

Feb 19, 2002, 6:19pm

U CAN TAKE OUT ALPHA! BUT YA CANT TAKE OUR FREEDOMMMM!!!!! heh, if u take
alpha away, there will be like 10k peps complaining cuz there too ignorant
to see beyond today, so that wont help much, especially with the ammount of
complainin that goes on here :) but i would like to see it go. looks like
the AW God spent 7 years in the bathroom.. :)
[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 6:22pm

thing is, if they would fix up the objects and avs, to something half
desent, then it wouldnt be so bad, but comeone, u have walls, ones of which
r twice the size of others, even thought there ment to be the same, or some
avs twice the size of others, and it all jsut looks screwed

by now, if ur still reading this, ur prob confused, well im just very dizzy
today, thats why nothign i write makes sense :)

SWE
Greatness at its best
[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 6:32pm

u forgetting worlds without SWE worship temples? stop taking the piss lol, i
agree with kellee, think that it should be maybe exchanged for another
world, with objects similiar to aws, but size is propper, or if someone just
fixes up the bloody avs, and gz, and a few hundred objects! and adds a few
hundred objects!

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 6:34pm

ya! and it could be called AlphaLag :) heh, if everyone could donate
objetcs, ull have a thousand objects, each 10k polys each :)

SWE
Greatness at its best
[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 7:43pm

Why not just a NEW build world that finaly breaks away from alpha world (ie
not a single aw object or texture)? No reason to get rid of alpha world as
well (as much as I dislike it).

Feb 19, 2002, 8:04pm

Maybe AWC should just come up with another world similar to Alpha World in
that there's a LOT of room to build and it's free to build for everyone, but
completely new objects and textures etc. No need to get rid of Alpha World,
just make a new one ;-)
[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 8:41pm

Isn't that exactly what I said?

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 8:43pm

mm guess I was trying to support you :-p LOL
[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 8:47pm

That is the perfect solution to this particular, SWE. But who's going to do
that? Right now, someone named GrimReaper is claiming to represent AW and
saying "Pay or we close down AW development and devote most resources to
Netbroadcaster." And that's another problem entirely. One that is at
least being attempted to be solved with the introduction of newer tech in
Version 3.3. But is that enough? Marketability is the last part of the
equation.

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 8:48pm

I'm still not sold on the idea that "greed" had anything to do with the
subscription price hike.

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 8:49pm

That would defeat the purpose of their current marketting strategy. They're
not going to do that. =P

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 2002, 9:44pm

I totally agree with you. AW is a drain of resources, and we don't need a world that big anyway (the fact that it's 1% full is a proof of that. What kind of server would they shall we try to fill it?)
It's not going to happen, but I'd just like them to make a new, more reasonably-sized public building world (like 1/50 of AW's size), with all new well thought objects and textures, and just completely delete alphaworld off their hard drives, it's just taking up disk space :P

The old timers wouldn't like it, but would the newbies care? In just a few months it'd be all forgotten.

Fox Mc Cloud

Feb 19, 2002, 10:55pm

Ok, first problem is, it would be the same as deleting "Not a Citizen"
builds.....Second is...I don't think you can get rid of AW, but a better
solution would be a full delete....go to the server and reset the world,
then rebuild GZ. But that comes with another problem...in seven years it
would be in almost the exact same situation. See my point?

Feb 20, 2002, 4:18am

AW Prime is like the corner Pub :o)

Seems like when restaurants and bars do a complete makeover or expand the
club at the end of the street, the patrons disappear.

I do agree the GZ is an eyesore but look at how many people pass thru there
every day.

Just like the tourists being gone ... we ain't got nuttin to gripe
about..... lol

[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 4:55am

methinks AW has passed Kellee the hemlock

[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 11:57am

Couldn't have said it better myself, Lara.

Poseidon

[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 12:17pm

well the way i see it, is aw will be too damn stingy to pay the expensises
of another huge building world, since well, it would cost quiet alot to
run...


SWE
if its name isnt SWE(or God) it isnt worth worshipping
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 12:20pm

emm, thing is, with a new world, if they stick to one size with all the
objects, and keep on makin new ones constantly, also remaking the gz, then
we wont have that problem.....

SWE
If its name isnt SWE (or God) it isnt worth worshipping...
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 2:56pm

I did not suggest any anonymous FTP uploading system,just a world where
donations would be accepted IF the objects were suitable for a public
building world.
Secondly that new place should not cause problems to you who has 2 Gigs of
this and that (strangly though I have met people who has lagged more with
their fairly new PCs than me with my old 333Mhz lol).

Drac
swe <m_swehli at hotmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:3c72b6c8 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> ya! and it could be called AlphaLag :) heh, if everyone could donate
> objetcs, ull have a thousand objects, each 10k polys each :)
>
> SWE
> Greatness at its best
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 3:04pm

I am not sure if if it is greed,but I could not come up with anything
else,the other word that crossed my mind was suicidial tho.
I still do not understand that new pricing system tho,maybe because I am not
the brightest bulb in the christmas-tree.The thing that bothers me is:If a
cake cost 1$ this year and it cost 1.10$ the following year,I can understand
that,because salleries goes up,the cost of producing goes up a bit,,it is
called inflation.BUT if the cake cost 10$ the following year and the baker
still has the same sallery,the flouvers still cost the same,the rent is
still the same,,,I cannot start wondering into whos pockets does those 8.90$
go.

Drac the virtual fruitcake
sw chris <chrisw10 at nckcn.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:3c72d646$3 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I'm still not sold on the idea that "greed" had anything to do with the
> subscription price hike.
>
> SW Chris
>
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 3:50pm

If that baker begins to lose business and is about to go bankrupt or must
pay the bank back for a loan, etc, etc, that money would go towards keeping
his business alive. Later on he can lower the prices again, but he highers
the prices hoping enough people will stay to get him more money than before
and be able to pay off his debt.

[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 8:26pm

Also keeping in mind the physical size(read that virtual physical size hehehe) of a world has nothing to do with it's storage size
on a hard drive....:) only the number of objects in that world does....and that AW is not 1% full but WAS almost filled.....that
is why they stopped the use of building bots in AW a while back ....so they could re-do the database because it was at it's
"physical limits" with the number of records it could store. Just wanted to clear that up....lol

Leo :) aka BinaryBud



[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2002, 9:48pm

Then why don't they give you an unlimited sized world but with a limit to
the number of objects you could create?
[View Quote]

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