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Nov 11, 2000, 12:33pm

Thanks anduin.

That makes me a lot more confident in what I want to do in the world. What
you said makes a lot of sense, but just wanted to make sure (still trying to
catch up with the rest of ya ... lol).

Grims.


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Nov 11, 2000, 2:27pm

TH,

The bots are one of the things I want to play with "to destructon", and the
world will probably initially just be an environment in which I can achieve
that.

Thanks for the offer though.

Grims.


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Nov 12, 2000, 1:35pm

Hey c'mon. We have enough ppl being rude in here without you joining the
fray TH.

I think the point that is being made here is that the RWX file format SHOULD
be proprietary to RenderWare and AW shouldn't be bastardising it. If
additional object features are to be provided within AW, they should be
implemented outside the core object definition, especially with new object
formats being supported (i.e. COBs). Ideally, there should be an AW script
that defines the AW specific information plus some form of server-side
include equivalent to pull in the RWX/COB/etc. file.

I think that boats been missed now though. BTW, does anyone know what
happens to the shabangs when you load the files into RW and save them again?

Grims


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Nov 12, 2000, 5:40pm

I stand corrected. Sorry.

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Mar 19, 2001, 7:14pm

I think this says a lot really ...

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Mar 19, 2001, 7:42pm

OK ... ONE quick lesson ... since you're leaving soon.

If you don't predeclare your variables within a scope, and there is no
appropriate letter range defined for a variable's name(using DefBool,
DefInt, DefStr, etc.), the variable will be defined as a variant. Variant
data types are "anything"s and take their characteristics from the source
value when assigned. For example, if you assign it from a string value, the
variant will act as a string, if you put a number in there, it will act as a
number.

The recommendation is to force predeclaration of all variables using "Option
Explicit" (look it up in the help) by setting the "Require Variable
Declaration" flag under Tools | Options | Editor. Then, all variables used
in your code must be declared within the scope in which it is used.

You should ALWAYS know what your variable's behaviour is going to be. In
your example, you have managed to set the value of the variable from a
string value (maybe from a textbox ??) and for strings, the "+" operator
acts in the same way as a "&" operator.

Use "Require Variable Declaration" and add "Option Explicit" to the top of
all your existing forms, modules and classes and do a full recompile
(CTRL=F5) and sort any new errors you may get. Good programming practice
dictates that you predelcare all variables anyway ... VB's ability to
override it is one of those little quirks that is there purely for
supporting legacy code - its an old BASIC thing. Its a little annoying that
the default setting is "off" really. All other programming languages I have
dealt with DEMAND that predecs are made.

Read the VB help files for Dim, Public, Private and Option Explicit. I would
say that any chance of a decent programmer "buying" one of your bots has
just gone out of the window, "bud".

Grims


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Nov 13, 2000, 8:33pm

The question has to be asked ...

If its and OLD OLD message........ why post a response? You just looking to
get a rise out of Eep or what? 'cuz there's really no need for it is there?


[View Quote] Maybe this message doesn't fit in this group, but look what I found in an
OLD OLD message by Eep.

Apr 3, 2001, 9:56am

I may just be the unluckiest person in AW, with SDK messages being dropped
at key times, but I don't seem to get an AW_AVATAR_DELETE notification when
an avatar joins someone in another world.

I works ok if they join people in the same world, but joining someone in a
different world seems to miss an important part of the process. The avatar
finally get's lost after a while - a bit like your bot still being there
after a short period when you don't terminate the instance properly and it
ends up timing-out.

Anyone else experience this?

Grims.

Apr 3, 2001, 2:42pm

Great. That gives me a frame of reference anyway. I'll poke around, but I
don't see that it can be anything in the Bot code ... Perhaps he was just
having a bad day.

Thanks Xelag.

Grims.


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Nov 14, 2000, 5:10am

I don't think you have the same concept of a script as everyone else TH. At
the end of the day, he object definition within an RWX file is simply the
file format that RenderWare used to describe its objects. Its not really a
script any more than a JPEG file is a a script for the definition of an
image. Its a structured file format - just not compressed - that object
builders in AW edit.

Most people's definition of a script is a run-time interpreted language.
What is yours?

Grims


[View Quote] --
- Tony56 (aka Chandler56)
"Freedom: That's What The Government Wants You To Believe!"
____________________________________________________________
[View Quote]
Javascript is a SCRIPTING, not a programming, language, Dth. Besides, I sure
as hell wouldn't learn programming just to make silly AW bots...
Unfortunately I can's stand thinking programmatically and having to express
it logically so until a more visual/graphic/symbolic programming "language"
(method, process, etc) comes along, I won't be programming any time soon.
All I can do is express my ideas and home some programmer(s) like them
enough to implement 'em.



Look at all these errors, and out of Eep?
A & B)JavaScript (not Javascript) is NOT a scripting language. It is not
RenderWare style, nor Perl style (which is more programming than some
things) BASIC is not a scripting language, it just isn't object-oriented.
This is top down programming either way.

C)Is there something wrong with learning to make "silly" AW bots? I did.

D)Thinking programmatically? What the hell is this supposed to meen?
Programming is, at a basic level, write one thing, it does this, continue.

E)What's the matter? Visual Basic isn't infantile enough for you?

Now for spelling and grammer (SP :-)

1)can't, not can's

2)"programming, language,"

3)hope, not home

And now we have the AW SDK in all sorts of simple programming languages, yet
I haven't found any bots out of Eep yet.

-Twisted Horizon

Nov 13, 2000, 8:34pm

Eh???


[View Quote] Not two weeks later he posted a message

Let's learn to spell please. THANKS

Apr 3, 2001, 2:39pm

LOL... this isn't a dig KAH, but "the state thingie"?? LOLOL

Grims

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Apr 4, 2001, 2:39pm

LOL ...... what's the matter ... ? 20 hours not long enough for ya?

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Apr 6, 2001, 9:38pm

LOL ... Well done makaveli ... have a coffee now mate.


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Nov 19, 2000, 8:18am

I think a lot of people who write their own bots use this method anyway once
they've worked out the basics - applying some form of function library or
class structure (depending on the type of language you use) and expanding
that to their needs. Since you seem to sell your bots, why not keep your
infrastructure to yourself (I don't mean that how it might sound lol) to
enahance the capabilities of the your bots, give you a perceived advantage
and make just your life easier?

Grims


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Nov 19, 2000, 8:23am

Twist, you ever tried distributing a tiny VB application? A simple bot in VB
requires a setup install set that is well over 1MB ZIPPED. If you add a
little database processing in there, its up to 2MB because of the DAO, ADO
and/or RDO libraries. Then you put some fancy controls on the user interface
from one of the Windows Control Libraries (like the List control) and up it
goes even more.

When you're up to 3MB, you're talking about potentially a 30 minute download
on a dial up :O(.

Grims


[View Quote]

Apr 7, 2001, 11:45pm

Hi there people, I have something that I would probably have posted to the
Beta NG if I could have done, so I'm going to try my luck here.

I have two identical areas setup in a world ... right next to each other.
They each have an "anchor point" which I use for some calculations. I also
have a bot tracking a single avatar (me ... the only one in the world),
maintaining its location through the usual AW_AVATAR_CHANGE events.

On clicking an object (when the avatar is stationary and has been for a good
few seconds), the bot takes the avatar's X, Y and Z offsets from that area's
anchor point and teleports the it to the same X, Y and Z offsets from the
other area's anchor point (positioned in exactly the same relative position
within the area). The Yaw is retained ... that's no problem.

Sounds straight forward right? Pah!

The first time I do the teleport (as the avatar), after using the browser to
move the avatar into the first area, the avatar is teleported to a position
slightly further along the line of last movement. The ONLY way I am updating
the avatar's position within the bot is through the AW_AVATAR_CHANGE events.

I know its not my code, because if I teleport back and forward between the
areas afterwards (without moving the avatar in the browser), it gets EXACTLY
the right position. So I can only see that the browser is sending at least
one more avatar movement notification to the server without carrying it out
itself properly. I'm sure the world server wouldn't be trying to trick me by
inventing movements (perhaps I'm just not paranoid enough yet).

This is in v3.0 (build 354). I'm going to try it on v3.1 (Build 370) later
on to see if this is still apparent, but in the meantime if anyone has any
comments on this I'd be grateful (preferably like someone noticed it before
and its fixed in Build 370). It may sound trivial, but I am relying on these
messages to be correct and, if anything, I would expect the SDK to be behind
the movement if it was going to be incorrect at all .... not ahead of it.
I'm using is Build 19 of the SDK.

I hope I managed to explain myself clearly enough. If anyone thinks its
appropriate, please post this on to the Beta NG for me.

Thanks,

Grims.

Apr 8, 2001, 12:33am

Thanks Xelag,

Have to agree with you there. Shame it screws me 7 way from Sunday though!.

Grims.


[View Quote] There seems to be a permanent problem with the last step of the avatar in
the browser... the routine for that should really be checked.

Apr 8, 2001, 2:22am

Done a little more playing on this, tracing the messages against where the
browser says it is in the title bar (in a very high-tech fashion ....
gradually stepping over a cell boundary and watching the messages) and the
messages to the bot are actually very consistent with the position reported
by the browser. The problem comes (still from the browser unfortunately)
with what it does with the teleport.

Although the teleport specifies the position in centimeters (as the web-help
says it supports that precision), the AW_AVATAR_CHANGE message comes back to
the bot with pretty much a 1 meter precision. For example, the Z-coordinate
before the teleport was 3250 (centimeters) and was notified after the
teleport as 2900 when it was actually set to 3250 - 400 = 2850.

So I played some more ... 2909 + 800 = 3700, 3700 - 800 = 2900 (yay!!!), and
3030 + 800 = 3799. Its the same with the Z-coordinate AND the Y-coordinate
.... 1 meter precisions.

So what gives?? This doesn't look like a complicated calculation problem
anymore (although I guess we can blame rounding issues for the 99's ... they
had to get in there somewhere with so much going on ... but that's close to
irrelevant).

Going to try 3.1 now ... its (potentially) such a small thing that it may
have been fixed.

Grims

Apr 8, 2001, 9:43am

ok

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Apr 8, 2001, 11:18am

And another thing ... how come you don't get an AW_EVENT_OBJECT_CLICK if the
object has an activate action command on it? Maybe its a technical reason,
maybe its an oversight, but either way its a pain in the butt LOL.

Grims.

Nov 20, 2000, 7:43am

HEY!.... there was no malice intended in that post ... Geesh! This is
turning into bitch-city.

Perhaps I am getting you mixed up with someone else - in which case I
apologise. There are a lot of "I have a bot page" posts here. It was more of
a recommendation than anything - you build your own infrastructure and make
the most of it.


[View Quote]

Nov 20, 2000, 7:48am

What I have found (for the simple bots - my C/C++ is a little old and rusty
nowadays) is that bots can be DEVELOPED/DEBUGGED VERY quickly and easily in
VB, but distribution (free or otherwise) is best made in a less managed
language where you have more direct control over as much of the environment
as possible. If the VB code is structured properly in a manner that will
suit quick conversion of syntax to the new language, this works well.

Just a bot of additional ime investment at the end of it all.



[View Quote]

Apr 9, 2001, 10:08pm

makaveli,

There are a number of key problems with this code. The two major ones are
listed below:

Firstly, its bizarre! What's with the timer?? Ever heard of a loop? That
timer is running asynchronously along side the retrieval of the AW events,
so its going to be totally arbitrary which messages are going to be checked.
The code is basically going to check for the next word in the list (after
the current one), in the last chat message received, every second. Chat
messages will often be missed completely and ONLY be scanned for all the
words if no-one says anything else while it goes through the loop.

Secondly, (apart from the fact that it's not an answer to what TrekkerX
wants because of the previous point), ListIndex is only used to position the
selection. Its a UI thing and not something for setting the current record
so that you can use the Text property.

This isn't a difficult task ... The code you really want goes something like
this ... which isn't how I would actually do it - see point later in post -
but its comparative to your example (again, in VB with your control names
for continuity):

Private Sub sdk_EventChat()

Dim messageChat As String
Dim indexEjectWord As Long

messageChat = LCase(sdk.AwChatMessage)

For indexEjectWord = 0 To lstWord.ListCount - 1
If InStr(messageChat, LCase(lstWord.List(indexEjectWord))) Then

'<do eject handling code here>

End If
Next indexEjectWord

End Sub

This is still going to fall foul of words within words (there's a place in
the UK called Scunthorpe!!) so additional logic needs to go in there to
check for whole words including handling the start/end of the chat message
and punctuation - so you can't just check for " " &
lstWord.List(indexBadWord) & " " either.

Personally, I am a believer in user interface components being JUST for user
interface purposes ... displaying/entering information and interactivity. My
view is that the prime copy of the data belongs in the guts of the
application, not in a visual control. So actually, I would have a ReDim'd
array of Strings or a Collection holding the words, and that store is then
used to populate the listbox on startup. Just my upbringing I guess ...
different people do things in different ways.

BTW, a small piece of advice. See the Dim statements? Use them ... Variants
suck! You should never find code like this ANYWHERE in an application ...
large or small ... it just doesn't make any sense.

If X = "" Then X = 0

If you MUST use variants (which is extremely lazy and unnecessarily adds to
the underlying processing), use the IsEmpty(varName) to do this check.

Grims.



[View Quote]

Apr 9, 2001, 10:12pm

Ack!!!

'<do eject handling code here>

should read

'<do eject handling code here>
Exit For

Sorry ....

Grims


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Apr 9, 2001, 10:16pm

GRRRR .... it took me so long to type my post that you beat me to it !!

Just for the reader ... (accidental omissions I'm sure - MrGrimm is better
that this)

For i = 0 To lstBox.ListCount -1

and

If ContainsWord(lstWords, LCase(AwSdkOcx.AwChatMessage)) <> "" Then

Grims :o)



[View Quote]

Apr 12, 2001, 2:57pm

No it isn't.

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Apr 13, 2001, 8:30am

LOL .... You like to put yourself out there to be shot at don't ya. EIGHT
functions??

And by the way ... you forgot to actually teleport the session in "teleport
" ;o).



[View Quote]

Apr 14, 2001, 11:58am

This ALWAYS the case. The only attributes that are populated as part of the
AW_EVENT_CHAT message are AW_AVATAR_NAME, AW_CHAT_MESSAGE, AW_CHAT_TYPE and
AW_CHAT_SESSION. There's no "for some reason" about it ... as documented on
http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/AW_EVENT_CHAT.htm.

If you want to do anything beyond the basic coverage of the AW events you
have to remember all the settings from the AW_EVENT_AVATAR_CHANGE messages.
I don't have time right now to knock up a sample application for you
unfortunately, but basically you need to do manage a session table ...
something like this:

On an AW_EVENT AVATAR_ADD, you take all the attributes supplied by the SDK
and create a new entry in some form of list. How you implement this list is
vvery much dependant on your programming style, preferences and how you want
to use the list afterwards ... it could be a (large) fixed array (not
recommended), a dynamic array, a collection, a linked list, etc. The
important thing is that you store the avatar's location information against
its session number. Personally, I always use a class called CAWAvatar that
holds the avatar's information and the owning citizen information once its
resolved from the AW_CALLBACK_CITIZEN_ATTRIBUTES ... but it can be simple
Session Number plus the X, Y, Z and Yaw coordinates if you want.

On an AW_EVENT_AVATAR_CHANGE, you need to look up the session number in your
list and adjust the location information held against it (X, Y, Z and Yaw).

On an AW_EVENT_AVATAR_DELETE, you can throw the entry relating to that
session away.

When you get your AW_EVENT_CHAT message, you can lookup the avatar's
location from the list to establish where the avatar really is ... NOT the
leftovers of the previous event that updated the avatar's X, Y, Z and Yaw
attributes in the SDK stores.

As far as getting the bot to go in front of the avatar, you need to apply
some simple maths. Simply adding 100 to the coordinates will always put the
bot at 100 further north and 100 further west. You need to use circle
formula to get it 1m away from the avatar in the directionthe avatar is
LOOKING.

0 Yaw is looking North, 900 is looking West, so to find the X offset, you do
the radius of the circle (the distance away fromt he avatar ... 100 in this
case) and multiply it by Sine(Yaw/10). For the Z offset, you use Cosine
instead. Therefore:

botPosX = avatarPosX + (JOIN_DISTANCE * Sin(avatarPosYaw/10)
botPosZ = avatarPosX + (JOIN_DISTANCE * Cos(avatarPosYaw/10)

To make the bot "look at" the avatar ... you simply reverse the avatar's Yaw
with simething like ((avatarPosYaw + 180) Mod 360).

"The Derek" ... you amaze me ... I have only just removed you from my filter
list (which you originally earned membership of because I was tired of your
continual crap responses) and you immediately demonstrate the same old
inability to read the documentation and insistance on making uninformed
assumptions instead of finding things out. Back on the list for you.

Hope this helps TrekkerX. As I said, I'm a bit puched for time right now so
I can't make up a sample application for you. After Easter is over, if
you're still stuck, let me know and I'll put something together for you
quickly to demonstrate how to handle session tables. This post is using the
event names in the actual SDK as documented (for C) but the names in the
AwSdkOcx2 and 3 are close enough for you to make the connection.

Grims




[View Quote]

Apr 14, 2001, 12:11pm

Sorry ... typing is crap today ... formulas should read as follows:

botPosX = avatarPosX + (JOIN_DISTANCE * Sin(avatarPosYaw/10))
botPosZ = avatarPosZ + (JOIN_DISTANCE * Cos(avatarPosYaw/10))

Just a quick note ... it might be crap maths in this machine, but I use
Visual Studio 6 with Service Pack and COS(90) ... I think ... is never
calculated correctly, so watch for that. I seem to remember from my school
days that Cos(x) = 1/Sin(x) so you can use that if you get this problem.

Grims/


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