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May 29, 2004, 3:45am

In civilazed part of the world companies usually tell about their changes in
advance, so people have time to adjust to the new "things".

Yes they own the comapny and the company owns the world, but yet we are
paying customers and usually one do not treat customes like shit. If one
choose to do so, companies usually do not last so long.

Now you may wonder, if one is a citizen, why should one worry about tourist
beeing disabled.
Maybe a citizen who get grammed to death wants to hide and build for a
while.
Maybe a citizen wants to meet the non registered friends in some place
Maybe all people are not so rich that they can afford memberships in all
kind of programs just to take a look at them.

By disabling tourists from worlds ( in general) and asking money to have it
back, is like a landlord saying " No you cannot have any visitors unless you
pay a months rental extra". The way AWI did this would have most likely been
illegal in a civilized country also. One do not change an agrement in the
middle of the contract ( It changed about 2 weeks after I had renewed my
world(s)).

I do not see the logic in this either. If I have tourist in my worlds, it do
not cost AWI anything; the load is on my world and objectpath host.

Unfortunatly AWI is not interested at all in "thier" universe and the
citizens there. Their strategy is to sell universes; less hassle , no
complaining citizens and usually technical support needs to be given only
one person in each uni, instead of to 2000 ppl.
This policy do not work in the long run because to get people to buy
univereses one need one big working one, that impress potential buyers.
The day the universes are so videly spread that it is a "concept" the main
universe might not be needed anymore, but I doubt we will ever reach that
day.
To reach this one needs to get people "hooked" and by making things too
complicated ( creditcards for trial, disabling most features) one do not get
it done. For example I might have been potentially hooked to many programs
if the trial would have been easy, but when the first thing they do is ask a
creditcard number ( and they are a random company I surfed into) I do not
like to give out info; I just want to try it first.

D
"sexy eyes" <twisti at charter.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b80613$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> they own the world, and world owners can do what they want with their
> worlds. Get a citizenship already, instead of freebieing off everyone
else.
>
[View Quote]

May 29, 2004, 9:46am

I shall try to reply.
"carolann" <carolannh at charter.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b844d7$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> in
>
>
>
> country also.
>
> I don't believe it-can't you just leave it the hell alone? You're in a
*%&$
> newsgroup for a virtual universe-can't you forget the "us vs. them" for
even
> a little while? Criticize the company if you're paying for their service
and
> have a problem, you have that right. But it's one of a million companies,
> all different, all over the world, some good, some not. Why the US BS in
> there? I stopped having anything to do with AW or it's newsgroups mostly
> because of all that crap, but heard through the grapevine that some of
what
> I used to think were my good international friends were nominated for
CY's,
> so I came here to see what I could find out. I went to the "CY results"
> thread (logical? Obviously not) and what do I see? Phrases like

As usual you understood me wrong. I never said that USA alone was
uncivilsed, we have of that same stupidity here also and it is increasing
all the time, the more power European Union get. Somehow it sems that EU is
becoming similar to USA. The problem I see with this is that the local
people lose their capability to influence on things.
I am not familiar with how excatly USA works, but lets say some small state
would decide not to go to war different from the official line, I suspect
the official line would overrule the local decission?
This example was quite extreme of course, but when the "big" ones start to
decide about what is good for others, one lose freedom.
In EU it more and more seems that the power is concentrating to France and
Germany (anyone remember what happened last when germany gained power?); and
what do a middle-european know about raindeers in Lapland or fishing in the
greece archipelago?. Yet these people are supposed to decide what is good
for these totally unknown. It is even illegal for a country itself to decide
in matters that concerene only its own matters. I concider this to be highly
uncivilised . Local matters should be decided and solved locally where the
expertice is, not by some byrochrats thousends miles away.
There now I have bashed EU also ( happy now?).

To use the above example when it comes to USA. USA is big and powerfull, so
the official line ( especially now) seems to be that because we are the
biggest we have the right to decide what is best for others ( example force
a different political system into another country), same way as the EU
byrochrats force stupid rules on all people although some thing that work in
Greece do not work in Sweden ( as an example).

So in this sence USA and EU are not civilised; so far EU has mostly
concentrated on mobbing smaller countries within EU, where as USA has done
it globally ( because USA has been around longer).

The conclusion from above should at least be that I do not hate the people
of USA nor EU, only what those things stands for; globalizing, imperialism,
force, control, limitation of freedom etc.

Lets now get back to the original issue, when we have agreed that there is
no civilized country in the world (?).
If AWI had been in for example Germany, I could as well has called it an
uncivilised country, because it is part of EU as Finland, but now AWI happen
to be in USA and that I cannot do anything about. I can just wonder if I had
called for example South Africa or Denmark uncivilased, if it had made you
cuss as well?

In general the protection of customers has been good in the scandinavian
countries ( until EU destroyed what had been built up here). For example
when you deal with a company it is an agreement between you and the company,
and you both are supposed to follow the rules. Example. I rent a car from a
company for lets say 5 months ( we agree on that). The company cannot come
after 1 month and take out the backseat, but it would need to wait until the
5 months are up and then we would need agree on either continuing the
contract with the new rules or then end it. How AWI would do it ( probably
because the law allow it?) , is to rip out the backseat and then demand
money to put it in back in the middle of the leasing contract.
>

This I have never said. But yes not even USA is civilised. In a civilised
world one do not have crimes or wars, unfortunatly a civilised world is just
a utopia
>
> and
>
> USA in Iraqi prisons, as a new example of USA model civilization)"

This is something I did not either say, but seems I am blamed for it. Maybe
it is a USA way to do so, someone do/say something , then one look for
someone in the same region and bomb them ? *g*

> and
>
>
> (btw-we don't even SAY "n****r" where I come from, and never have).

I also read this post and I understood it in an ironical way that is
supposed to give a "wake up shock" to people.

A bit in the same way that the african-american author, Randall Kennedy
named his biography "Nigger"
And before you call this BS here is the link
http://www.readinggroupguides.com/guides3/nigger2.asp and if you type in
his name in google.com picture search you will find that he is black.
I have also noticed that black people often say " Wasup Nigga?" , but if a
white person would say so he is a racist. I think it is racistic against the
white people if we are not able to use same words as black people?
By allowing black people to use the word nigger one either A) should accuse
black people for racism or B)Let the white people use it also.
I honestly cannot see how same word can mean different in a persons mouth
depening on his skin colour, I think that is just very racistic ( in this
case against the white).

>
> How does this happen? Is there nowhere we can be individuals and not
> adversaries, judged for ourselves and not by the outside world that we may
> have (used to) come to virtual reality to get away from for a few precious
> minutes?

How it happens?
A few reasons I can think of:
1) if one even dare to indicate something bad about USA (goverment) every
american takes it personally and needs to defent themselves. I think you
have made it clear below. I KNOW you are not a bad person and I assume you
are not pro-wars, but yet you seem to dislike when someone dare to say the
for example dislike that coalition soliders molester a prisoner. Not quite
sure what one should belive of this a) you aprove all that your goverment do
and stands for b) you deny that they can do anything wrong ?

2) Now and then people either post a Pro-USA or Anti-USA post and that
triggers a serie of arguments in both ways.

3) Some people act provocative ( I confess something enjoying "pissing off"
the republicans), maybe to have a good laugh at the BS it triggers.

4) Some people take the NG way to serious (you?).

5) Some tend to misunderstand what is said.

5) Some seems to look with a microscope if some thing could in any way be
taken as a negative thing against USA and if yes, then get upset and take it
personally. Like when I said "In civilazed part of the world companies
usually tell about their changes in advance" you automatically took it as
Anti-USA, It could as well have meant " In USA which is civilized, companies
usually tell about changes, but AWI did not", but you decided to use it
against me, how come? Maybe you are somehow anti-hairy guy?

>
> I've never abused a prisoner, never lynched a n****r", never participated
in
> a war-any more than your have, or probably 99% of the readers here. Berate
> my virtual world in here if you must, not anything in my real one please.
> Not here. Save that for when you meet me in a warzone IF you see me
carrying
> a gun instead of bandages.

With your tax money you are paying those people carrying the guns, you do
not have to do it personally. The question is more like do you aprove how
your tax money is beeing used?

>
> Just a serious comment from a virtual citizen-nothing else should matter
to
> you in here.
>
>
> ---
>
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
>
>

May 29, 2004, 4:05pm

But seriously CarolAnn, the entire thread Cy Results was total crap, the
political part was only a fragment compared to the BS produced mostly by
Alaskanshadow and Rossyboy. I find it strange that a few political comments
irritated you more than 100 posts of shouting and insulting?

What I intended with my reply in the Mars thread was simply that I
disaproved the solution to ban tourists and tell the obviously rich woman
that everyone is not as rich as her. If you chose to make it into a
political debate, that you must have a right to do.

At some point one have to choose if one want to me a nationalist or
humanist; one cannot be both.

I think it is normal that people speak about politics in their everyday
life, why would AW be different?
Is there any other topics one should avoid? Maybe weather, becuase someone
might have a bad experience about a tornado or someone might like rain, when
some other hates it; it would be a potential topic for flames.
Holidays maybe? Never say Merry Christmas or Happy Hannuka, because it might
offend those with a different belief
Food? One should refrain talking about food since it is a potential flame
start; for example some might disaprice eating of raindeer and dogs others
disaprove eating of carrots and cucumber.

This list could be made as long as possible; every topic can be turned into
a flame, or then again, one can talk about things, even hard topics, in a
more constructive way.

I would suggest you ignore comments that you do not like or then say your
opinion; as you said , you do not want this to be a serious place, so why
take the BS so seriously?

Yeah, I like number 5 ;-)

Mika
"carolann" <carolannh at charter.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b8cac1$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
>
> No-you misunderstand me wrong. I just mean, when I want to read about Cy
> winners by reading a "Cy Results post"-that's what I want and should be
able
> to read. I didn't find the results there, but have since seen them. I
> congratulate the winners and admire their skill and patience in producing
> such fine examples of just what I loved to come to AW to see.
>
> When I want to read about Mars by reading a "Mars" post, (because it is
one
> of my sentimental favorite places in AW from a long time ago), that's what
I
> want to read. Veger has a great thing going there, btw.
>
>
> I know. Me either always, and I (for one) need a place to forget the real
> world briefly.
>
>
>
> No
>
> uncivilased, if it had made you cuss as well?
>
> Yes, I came to read about Cys and Mars.
>
> I know those other comments were Xelag's and not yours, but I didn't see
> them in time to comment in a timely manner, I just meant they had no place
> in a place where international virtual friends meet-they are inflammatory.
> Things like that DO need to be addressed by people who can do something
> about them besides just recite their angst against the US. We don't need
> someone in a virtual universe to give us a
>
>
> Being here does not mean we don't know what's going on as much as you do,
do
> you think we are calmly smiling at those photos, framing them and putting
> them on our desks?
>
> named his biography "Nigger"
>
> I understand the different ways the word can be used. In this case I
> understood it to mean the "worst" way-thus my related comments.
>
> goverment do
> Neither-I want to read about what a post says it will be about, and leave
> the other stuff for the real world where it will always sadly be waiting.
>
> Exactly what I mean Drac...I don't WANT the NG to be as serious as the
real
> world.
>
>
> anti-hairy >guy?
>
> You KNOW that isn't true Drac. Most of my AW friends, and many of my r/l
> ones have facial hair, including you. btw-you had 2 points numbered with a
> "5"...why is the Finns have so much trouble with numbers higher than 5?
;-)
>
used?
>
> The answer is, it shouldn't matter in AW.
>
>
> ---
>
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
>
>

May 29, 2004, 8:37pm

"carolann" <carolannh at charter.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b8e68c$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...

someone
> when
>
> You speaking about my tornado is not insulting to me, unless you say I
> deserved it.
>
I had even forgotten about your tornado. What made me think of one was
that someone recently told they had lost a relative in a tornado.

I can only promise to be more "on-topic" in the future.

Drac

May 30, 2004, 8:08am

One cannot blame Veger for AWI beeing idiots.
I guess this case show how they thank people who try to help them grow and
make AW a good place for anyone to be in.

Maybe the bosses in AWI could try to get a hold on a book like " Company
management for dummies" , which would explain the basic things about running
a business, like that the customers are the one paying their sallery and one
cannot fu** with them all the time, neither ignore all request ( like about
features in the browser) , year after year.

I am starting to have enough of the BS and considering shutting down the
world Freebies and stop hosting and all activities in this univere.

If AWI really do not want us here, maybe we just all should go somewhere
else.

Drac
"hicks8" <hicks8 at cd-dm.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b8b9b7 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Post by Veger:
>
> :) Let me explain and maybe let you understand WHY this has Happend.
I
> won
> a CY award Saterday may 22 for Mars Central Thankyou Everybody that meant
> EVERYTHING to me! Since i have (had) Ps privs on Mars and JP was very
cool
> to me about things like the two months i worked on getting New Objects and
> Avatars and there Textures ready and JP uploaded them to MARS for ALL OF
US
> to enjoy that was GREAT day for mars!!!
> Two days after the Cy's Alphabit sent me the zips for the CY Award
> Statue and i asked JP if he could upload them. He told me that i would be
> better off PUTTING A PICTURE of one up cause he would have to change the
> regestry. I tryed to do that but after all the yrs i worked for a CY this
> was not very satisfiying for me. SO
> The other day i called up AWI just to find out why i could not have
my
> CY Statue i worked so hard for and the person on the phone said i had to
> give them a idea of why i would want to talk to the complaint department.
So
> i said i was a TINY BIT upset about this and just wanted to express my
> feelings. WELL
> Within the Hour JP went to Mars GZ and REMOVED the sign he was so
nice
> enough to put up for me that would teleport citizens and visitors to MARS
> CENTRAL a CY AWARD WINNING BUILD on MARS and the FIRST one MARS EVER GOT!
> and changed the sign to Complaint department, and he took away the PS
Privs
> he gave me and Stoped the Visitors coming to mars just to prove to me WHO
> the boss is..
> :( So my fellow Citizens this is ALL MY FAULT and i am very sorry for
> this once i seen the complaint department sign i called aw back and told
> ENZO and JP what the F#$ at they could do with that F at #$$ing Sign, Mars and
> AW. and started in on the GATE with 3 ejects, AWGZ with two ejects, and
> ONCE ON MARS for the first time ever. :( Sorry
> Needless to say after 3 yrs i am no longer a PK 15 anymore and
regreat
> the fact i EVER CALLED AWI up in the first place. I have embaressed
myslef
> so much in the past few days that i guess its time for me to go to OW were
> NOBODY is at and just be by myself and i will rebuild Mars Central over
> there.
> If my big mouth has hurt anybody i am very sorry that is not how
VEGER
> is but i was hurt VERY BAD over something SO STUPID all i can do now it
> seems is cuss to the point i get ejected and i have lost a lot of great
> friends now and feel very sorry for myself.
> MY FRIENDS OF AW ROCK never forget that! :(
>
>

May 30, 2004, 8:16am

"rossyboy" <rossyboy at vwtv.org> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b8cf37$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Yes, really. And that harsh reaction is something I'd expect from Bill
> "How about we just cancel the account, terminate your right to use AW
> and no one will have to contact anyone?" Hoover, not JP.
>
> Yes, I did keep those emails ^_^
>
This shows again their superior attitude " the right to use the account",
what happened to them having the privilegie to have us as customers??

It somehow seems they think they are doing us a big favour, when infact it
is "we" who pay them.
I would never dare to buy a universe from them, because suddenly they could
probably just say " We have decided to terminate your univesere licence" and
there one would be screwed on thousends of dollars.

Whay AWI would really NEED, is a person who could take care of the public
relations. Someone who stands between the customers and the stupid owners.

D

May 29, 2004, 2:15pm

Not sure if this is any help at all, but I found 3 in the MA area ( if that
is where he lives).

Fournier, Tom
18 Brenan St,
Holyoke, MA 01040-1050
(413) 533-1004

Fournier, Tom
244 High St,
Newburyport, MA 01950-3833
(978) 255-1283

Fournier, Tom
55 Steven Rd,
Bellingham, MA 02019-1638
(508) 883-7006

AW is in Newburyport, so unless he has moved that might be the most likely.

D
"jetta lewis" <rgurkin at earthlink.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40b8631b at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Does anyone in here know how to get in touch with Tom Flagg?? AWI is
> claiming they have no record of my paying for my galaxy nor any record of
my
> paying for upgrades. The last upgrade I purchased was to include the 3.5
> when released. At the time I purchased my last upgrade Tom guaranteed me
the
> 3.5 when it came. At the time he was thinking it would be within a month
or
> so, but it took some time longer to complete. Tom offered me the beta
> version, but I opted to wait until it had fewer bugs and it took a few
weeks
> over the one year time limit and Tom got gone from AWI. Now my galaxy is
> having probs running on the new windows and AWI is not doing a cure. I'm
> left with the option of buying my galaxy upgrades again. Thanks for the
> help. Bob Gurkin
>
>

Jun 4, 2004, 11:53am

And this is only because a universe cost a lot of money, the bigger the
more. AWI do not even tell what a unlimited uni would cost,probably 1-2
millions?


"alexthemartian" <alex at virtual-studios.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40bfff32$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> i know other universes of aw that you have to pay for a lot.. it might
> sound dumb.. but think of it this way.. it will never be as messy as
> alphaworld :P
>
[View Quote]

Jun 11, 2004, 10:01am

the backwards system. When telling time do you say 34.10.12 for 10 hours 34
minutes 12 seconds also? ;-)

"lioness." <nobody at nowhere.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40c91b8a$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> No dear. 6/10/04 is the American way to display the date. ;-"D
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 12, 2004, 12:15pm

I know, I was just teasing.

"lioness." <nobody at nowhere.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40c9c550$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> (shrugs) What can I tell ya hon? Somebody, long, long ago invented that
> system. Not me. And no.... we say "10 hours, 34 minutes and 12 seconds"...
> we usually do not abbreviate it. Or, at least, nobody I know abbreviates
it.
> ;-")
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 12, 2004, 12:20pm

I do not say either system is better, but to avoid confusion one should
start globally use one of them.
dd/mm/yyyy is of course the more logical way as it goes from "small to big"
and not"medium-small-big"

If only locally used I do not care how people display things dm/my/ydyy or
whatever, but places like internet where people attend from various places
in world it can cause confusion.

D
"c p" <chris101d at comcast.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40ca04b1$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> hurmmm im in highschool and the way we learned it and MLA says to sue it
is
> MM/DD/YYYY
>
> it makes more sense to use DD/MM/YYYY because it is smallest increments to
> largest...but the way I am being raised its MM/DD/YYYY
[View Quote]

Jun 17, 2004, 10:31am

This is just what I have been saying.
One says something negative about something general; then someone does her
best to connect it to USA and bang; one is anti-US.

I bet if I say I do not like Ford cars, someone will turn it against me
also? ( despite Ford is also built in Germany, UK and Brazil atleast).
And I do not even have to say that Henry supported and admired Hitler to get
this lable, do I ?

D

Jun 17, 2004, 6:34pm

That I can do.

When I visited Florida weather was warm and nice. There was also a tornado
that I found very interesting and impressive.
Poeple were very friendly in general, I especially well remember an erotic
dancer named Kelly, with whom we went to a blues club called "Poor House"
after she had finished her job. Due to this I almost missed my flight next
day. Btw have you ever sat in a plane for 14 hours with a terrible
hang-over.

I rented a car and price was not bad, gasoline was about a quarter what it
cost here (yet the people there complained it was expensive).
I found some great calendars in the bookshop.

All in all the experience was very positive for me. I could of course bring
up all the bad things I noticed but you wanted to hear seomething positive.

D

".sharon" <sharonclarke at prexar.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d1956d at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> CD, I'd like to hear you say some nice things about the USA.
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 18, 2004, 8:48pm

I do have a sign in Freebies saying something like feel free to donate a few
bucks if you feel rich. Why do I have this?
Well I am not rich, I have been sick for 6 years and been unable to work. A
big chip of the money I get monthly goes to pay server rent, not to forget
that worlds needs to be renewed also.

I put the sign there simply for those who really felt they want to donate
something for thousends of hours of workbut mostly for trying to get help
for the running costs. If one choose not to donate even if beeing filthy
rich that is ok also :)

But if you somehow try to make me feel like a con with this post, you have
the right to do so, but my intension with the sign was never to try to scam
people out of money.

Drac
"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d31ce5$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I have never seen so many ppl asking for donations in my life here
> that's a CON don't you know we ,well most of us, KNOW that!!!
>
>

Jun 20, 2004, 10:15am

Funny, excatly same happened for me. I got one one donation that was not
excatly small.
We love you Linn, you help us con people; you are the master con ;-)

Drac

"xelag" <xelag at digitalspace.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:qr57d05k381v01s2qu8lqcd5fcd61nl65f at 4ax.com...
> Oh and BTW Linn, thats for your article. I just got notification of
> PayPal of 3 new payments, explicitely stating your posting as reason.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> Alex
>
> On 18 Jun 2004 20:17:44 -0400, "linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com>
[View Quote]

Jun 20, 2004, 3:23pm

LOL yeah, I rent a server have a few customers. Do I make any money? No.
It helps cover the fees of the server a bit though.

Drac
"wizard myrddin" <wizard at notforspamming.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d5a618$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I thought you owned or operated myactiveworlds.com ?
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 20, 2004, 3:28pm

Oh I forgot.

I wonder what makes you aprove a person who make a model and sell it for 20$
and have a paypal button, but anothet person make a model give it away fror
free and have a paypal button IF one want to pay for it ?

D

"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d31ce5$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I have never seen so many ppl asking for donations in my life here
> that's a CON don't you know we ,well most of us, KNOW that!!!
>
>

Jun 22, 2004, 8:59am

Guess it is an insult yes; towards people who think it is ok to torture
people in prisons, keep people in prison without trials; to people who think
one country do not need to follow international laws and other imperialists,
liars and racists.

Personally I think one even should insult such people; they deserve it .

Drac
"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d78a85 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> not too hard to understand this ill put it in quotes so it will be
easier
> for you to see what you DID say
>
> Good point, showing your "barbaric state."
>
> Not that there is ANY indication that the people who were tortured in
> such a way had anything remotely to do with sept 11. And even if they
> had, there is such thing as human rights and the Geneva convention.
> """Or do you still linch niggers in the USA?"""
>
> What about the 1000s who have innocently died from USA intervention in
> Uruguay (my country), Chile, many many other countries, just to save
> and protect USA investments?
>
> Get real! USA is part of the world, NOT the world. It should respect
> the world, not try to dominate it. There is no excuse whatsoever for
> ignoring international treatments, as the USA does, whenever they feel
> like it, but "preemptively striking against nations" WE REMEMBER
> 911!!!!!!!! who, in USAs own
> eyes, do not respect these same treaties USA despises.
>
> Maybe you should just stick to your village, it's safer there. The
> wider world might be too much for you :)
>
> Alex
> so there you have it all Alex NOW can you understand it its STILL an
> insult to SOME of us who care about people's feelings and as far as
> accusing that person it has been proven in court he is a convicted child
> molester and you and half of aw or for you i should say SOME ppl in aw
know
> this as common knowledge
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 9:02am

Xelag, dont forget that in many states in USA when a prisoner is realesed
from prison , he will be labeled for the rest of his life. Priosn there is
not meant to help him become a "good" citizen, but is simply to punish him.

So committing a crime and doing 10 years will not make you a respected
citizen, you are marked until you die. For example ex-prisoners may not have
certain jobs and cannot even visit certian apartements.

Drac
"xelag" <xelag at digitalspace.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:d85fd09r7vt7a1v2er7305purrrpns3lb7 at 4ax.com...
> On 21 Jun 2004 21:25:25 -0400, "linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com>
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 9:12am

I guess one could go a bit deeper with it and ask why did Osama Bin Laden
hate USA so much?

I doubt he has picked USA randomly out of a list of countries. Maybe actions
of USA and former Sovjet in middle east has caused this anger.

Has USA learned anything from this ? No, nothing. Instead of the clear
message "let us take care of our own business" from the islamic part of the
world, USA decide to invade a country. This was the most stupid thing to do;
it will cause a never-ending wave of terror that not only citizen of USA
will feel, but the entire " so called" western world.

The action of USA ( the coalition) has been the best thing that could ever
happen to the extreme islamic movements. It has never been this easy to get
people to join their crusade againt the west.

I just wonder how long the people of USA are ready to sit and watch their
own countrymen getting slaughtered because of the current goverment. There
is an election comming up, I hope people will understand that people will
see the small possibility to get things better; although as far as I know
Kerry also voted "yes" to the war.

Drac

"lioness." <nobody at nowhere.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d7fe23$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> WRONG you sad case of monkey droppings!!!!!!! The only person who caused
> 911 to "happen" was Osama Bin Laden and his evil followers. How DARE you
> make that comment to anybody? Grow up or go back home to Hell where you
came
> from.
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 9:52am

I do not really see how on earth it can be any of your business who or why
anyone pay Lady Muraski.

Who pays your sallery btw? Now that we have gotten into this?
Have you ever inherited something?
Have you ever bought a lottery ticket? if yes, why? and did you win? if yes,
what or how much?
Do you have any credit cards?
Have you ever sold someting not related to your daily job, like a used
furniture or a service? In that case what was it, how much did you get and
whom did you sell it to?

Drac
"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40daa49f$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> all I asked was if she got paid for them where is that such a big sin?
> oh never mind i see who posted this now lol thanks for the
compliments!
>
[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 1:57pm

I guess the diference betwen you and me is that I know I am making a fool
out of myself, but you do not understand that you are making it out of
yourself :)

I do not drink milk btw, and stop bashing people Linn. Have something to
say, be prepared to be able to back it up with something else than your
imagination.

D

"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40dacc34$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> drink milk.... Drac LMAO you are making such a fool of yourself
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 10:41am

Research has proven that countires with long jail penlties and harsh
treatemnt, so not get less crimal activity at all.

It is even more likely that a prisoner who has been humiliated for years
will return, than one that is given therapy.

Bro, USA use abuse as a punishment in jails ( not all jails but many
especially southern states). USA also keeps prisoners withouth any trials
for years; in isolation and without sleep, even some teenager prisoners. One
of the worst (known) is called Guantamo.

As more stuff will leak out, even the most hardheaded people must see the
truth, admitting beeing wrong can be hard though; I know.

Drac
"bro" <bro at geneband.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40dc34ad at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Seems like this thread is all over the place.
> Drac we don't have death camps and frozen prison cells.
> As matter a fact we spend so much time and money trying to be
fair
> and just to those that break the laws that any normal country
has,
> it is just almost cruel. Your right about that Drac we should cut
> their heads off without a trial.
>
> On the subject of sex offenders and rapists they should be
branded
> so that everyone knows and has warning. The return rate of these
> people for doing it again is very high. Once again you're right I
> think beheading on public TV would much more humane and fair.
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 10:48am

What the F*** are you talking about now ?

If you are talking about who I think you are, I can tell you I have not
talken to her in months either. I think last around Christmas as a matter of
fact.
Linn, if you are going to accuse me of all friends you lose/have lost,
please check first if I know them, ok?

It is EXTREMELY rude to say I have caused someone to lose her/his job, lost
friends, lost contact to child.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe YOU caused it ?
Did you even ever consider that if she has changed, it might have nothing to
do with EITHER of us ?

If I would be a rude person I would tell you to go fuck yourself now, but
since I am nice. I can only say I am deeply hurt for such accusation.

Drac
"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40dafcd2 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> im not and have never bashed anyone Drac you need to go back to RULE over
> your slave cause you will never control me btw BEFORE she met you she
> was a good friend now she has no time for her friends job or her son
> hope you are happy with that!!
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 10:50am

Don´t you know that EVERYTHING is Linns business?
And not only that, if she hit her tumb with a hammer or an old relative
dies, it is sure like hell someone fault in activeworlds.

Drac
"bodhitah" <bodhitah at hotmail.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40db370c at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I immediately reposted and admitted my mistake too... that's called
> common courtesy. You still don't get it... You nor anyone else has the
> right to question what an artist, model maker, bot or avatar maker does
> with their creations...whether they sell them, give them away or keep
> them to themselves is absolutely NONE of your business.
>
[View Quote]

Jun 29, 2004, 1:54am

I live in Finland, I agree that trials should be fast, but I cannot totally
agree on hard punishment and especially deathpenalty ( could be an option
for someone to choose instead of life ).
The main problem with deathpenalty is that one would need to be 100% sure
the person is guilty, now and then they let people out of jail, that they
have found out actually was innocent; how would one even try to correct a
mistake if the person is dead?

I belive that bad treatment in jail just make the persons more bad. The
reason why people become criminals in the first place ( when talking about
violence) is most likely the lack of empathy and love when growing up. I
agree that many people go back to jail, and seems like helpless cases, but
then again, some people learn and become respected citizens later; if only
given a chance.
By labeling an ex-prisoner so that he cannot get a job, he easily goes into
crime again.
One quite good method that has been used here also, is like "part time
jail". people go there for the night but go to work daytime, this way they
learn the basics of how society works. They get a better selfrespect and
most of all learn to respect others. When it is time to become free, they
already have a job and the basic in life, which quite often helps then stay
on the legal side in life.

I do not hate America and americans, I just highly dislike the current
goverment you have and all what it stand for.; disrespect for others, lies
and agressivity.
I do not care what americans do within their borders, but as soon as they
step outside and start invading countries, mistreating prisoners in camps
( who has not even had a trial), I think it is my duty as a humanist to
dislike it.

I know people try to get into your country illegal, on the other hand you
need them. If all illegal immigrants would suddenly move out, your economy
would be shaken quite badly.

I used to hate the Soviet Union, but it fall apart, so now it is USA and the
Europen Union I have to dislike; I just cannot stand imperialism.

Drac

"bro" <bro at geneband.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40def83c at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Well we agree on one thing for sure. There should be speedy
trials
> and then death for rapists and murders. People who do those crimes
> seldom change.
> Here we take way too long to make sure people are guilty . The
> common good of the people is at risk from our waiting for years
> to go to trial.
>
> So many times we have repeat offenders so far we never had that
from
> anyone in the grave.
>
> Count I am not sure where you live. I would like to know. I know we
> have people here from ever that is though. We have to watch our
> borders to keep people from coming in not getting out. This is
> wonderful country full of loving and giving people. Yes we have our
> troubles too but we are big enough to try to change and vote on
> those issues.
>
> Tell us a little about the history of your country and why you have
> this distain for the US.
>
> Thanks to the internet the freedom to speak is growing world wide.
> The old party lines don't work anymore everyone wants a voice and
> with that comes the cost of learning what is true.
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 29, 2004, 4:16pm

Yes, I can see we obviusly disagree on many points, and I do respect your
views and I am hapyy that the matters can be discussed civilized without
flaming.

I guess the problem with your method is , how do we know who was born evil
and who did just made a mistake they honestly regret?
I know people get killed in accidents, but I do not think it is fair to
compare it to that. I just think we should not accept that people get killed
accidentaly due to our legal system.

Yes I do not like Bush, on that we agree. I do not know where you have been
when they recently published a memo where Rumsfield had aproven abuse in
jails for example. The coalition has been in Iraq for quite a while now and
yet has no mass-destruction weapons been found ( that was one reason for
war). No evidence of Saddam Hussein supporting Al-Quaida has neither been
found ( another reason for war).
Do you honestly think all is well now in Iraq? To me it looks more chaotic
than ever. Earlier a "western" person could travel to middle east, now it
seems if you have pink skin you will most likely be killed.

What people do not seem to understand with this war is, that it is the best
commecial for terrorist organizations ever. It has never been this easy to
recrute new members.

D
"bro" <bro at geneband.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40e18f57 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
>
> CD > I believe that bad treatment in jail just makes the persons more
bad.
> The reason why people become criminals in the first place ( when talking
> about
but
only
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> I really agree with you in some cases this is true, where people
steal
> to feed their family and crimes of passion also. That also there are
> those people who will never change. They are born killers. Why? I don't
> know but some people are born evil and have no chance to change. I
don't
> know why this is. I only know that we as a civilized race can not allow
> this to be in our midst. There is always a chance when you have a
> death plenty that someone may be innocent and still be killed. It
is
> sad but true. These all have to be weighed against the cost of
being
> kept in prison and also the risk to others.
>
> I know it is a common thing to say "If one innocent life is lost we
must
> not do it". It sounds good but that is not the way the world works.
> 1000s of people each year are killed by riding horses and cars , yet
we
> still do it. We have to count the lose and gains in all things.
>
> So it is with war also. You don't seem to like President Bush yet he has
> been in office in one of our most perilous times . He has faced
911
> and many other things. This man has been honest and strong, unlike
> our last one who lied, was dishonest, and dishonored the office with
> his abuse of privilege. We disagree on that I am sure.
>
> Terrorist s effect the whole world and perhaps some people want to
> stick their heads in the sand much like we did in past wars until
> our lands were bombed . If we failed ever, it was not stepping in
and
> stopping Hitler early on. Perhaps you disagree. I am not sure. I
> fought in Vietnam. I never killed or mistreated one person there.
> I gave paper and pencil to the kids in the villages. I helped
them
> whenever I could to learn to read. One thing I took from there
> is freedom has to be fought for or it cannot last. We have given
> another country yet another chance to stand on its own . Now they
> have to decide if that is worth the cost to fight and defend.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> CD I do not care what Americans do within their borders, but as soon as
> they
camps
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> We have yet to retain any land taken in war. We helped to re
build
> Germany and Japan . We don't take over countries for ourselves. I
> think we should really but we do not. When we move out, others will
move
> in and take the oil and try again to dominate. That is my fear anyway.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CD I know people try to get into your country illegally, on the other
hand
> you > need them. If all illegal immigrants would suddenly move out, your
> economy
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I would truly like to test that, Count. I think it would be very
good
> for us to work at the lower paid jobs. It would help our country.
> I am not saying that other people who come here only take lower
paid
> jobs. Many come here at high wages but for the most part they
> take lower paying jobs. Just like all of our ancestors who came
here
> . We all started at the bottom and worked hard to gain a foothold. The
> Germans, the Irish, even the Fins .
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> CD I used to hate the Soviet Union, but it fall apart, so now it is USA
and
> the European Union I have to dislike; I just cannot stand imperialism.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Count, you don't have to hate anyone. But if you must, hate those
> that would take your freedom away and kill you for the color of your
> skin. Those that would kill you because you worked hard and have more.
> Those that would sneak in and blow up your cities for no reason.
> Those that answer to no country but only want to destroy and tear
> down. That my friend is not the USA .
>
>
>

Jun 20, 2004, 10:30am

Of course there are hard core role players who extend their play into RL,
not only goreans but others also. Some with a weak mind can of course at
some point be confused what is real and what is fantasy.

The majority of role players play though their role online (or when gather
together) , and when closing their PC ( going home) they are like anyone of
us, you and me.

It is a bit same when you go to a theatre or movie, you get a way from your
boring everyday life for a while.

Then to slavery and murder. I better not say so much here because then you
will call me anti-US again ;-)

There are still slaves in the world, a lot in poor countries in the east for
example. There it is quite common that young girls are sold to be slaves,
often for sexual and /or domestical use. I guess the western world has not
been so interested in "freeing " these people , maybe because they do not
got oil?
Many girls/young women from former eastern states are tricked into a western
country. They are told they can have a job. An apartment is given to them
and the passport is tricken away from them. then they are told they own a
lot of money for the apartment ( rent can be something like 5000$/month),
and that they have to pay it before they can get their passport back. They
are are more or less forced/tricked into prostitution.
Similar tings can be found all over the world in various forms.

The comment on killing and torture and why someone would support I will not
even get into here to avoid a flame war.

Drac

"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d494da at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> yes and its that relationship that spills over into real life (btw
slavery
> is not a part of our culture now) and causes hurtful things to happen to
> ppl and families even death it on the news at times why would
anyone
> condone slavery and murder? AW can YOU answer that?
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 20, 2004, 10:44am

One problem with this is of course that AW is a place where citizen comes
from different nations and cultures.
A word that might sound perfectly ok in your own language can be the worst
insult in another.

Goreans find it somehow funny that my second name in rl is Jarl for example.

D
"hurdy gurdy man" <arnoldlayne2005 at hotmail.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:BCFA1938.12F%arnoldlayne2005 at hotmail.com...
> Hullo!
> While non g rated names are being booted in G rated places, some people
with
> X rated names can stay.
> While a nick name "liked to e spanked" wont work in the gate the Ds and
Gor
> freaks with their special nicks have a go.
> I think that nicks like those will be considered X rated.
>
> Iggy.
>

Jun 24, 2004, 10:01am

It is not TURNING into, from the start it was an insult.
I belive the entire meaning with starting the thread was just to get a flame
war started.

I wonder if some people have nothing else to do that to start useless
threads.
The thread could have been a bit more informative, what excatly the reader
experienced as conning, but no. As usual everything written by this person,
it was a general slap in the face and when someone ask for a bit more
specific info, all one get it is typical. "you know what I am talking
about". If one would know , one would not need to ask, eh?

People, do not start threads that you cannot back up. If you bash something
also be prepared to motivate it. Nothing is more irritating than getting a
slap in the face without any arguments why ( and not even getting the
reasons even if one try to milk it out).

Drac

"wizard myrddin" <wizard at notforspamming.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d8c3dd$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Please delete the thread entitled "Money" it is turning into personal
> attacks and enticement to flame
>
>

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