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Jun 28, 2002, 12:19am

Well, I asked my dad about what Filmkr said, and he said he was given a form with that very
option. So I must say, you were wrong, good day :)

- YP

[View Quote] JB

Jun 28, 2002, 12:24am

No YP, it's not different...... Any work I might perform, in any capacity, in regards to said
contract, is considered a "product or service" in the eyes of the law. I can be sitting here right
now, looking up equipment specs. comparing them to determine the best one for the application and
any time I spend, IS billable as a part of the work contracted............ and yes, the laws DO go
that specific.... there are numerous laws involving what may or may not be termed a "service" or
"product" and many legal precidents have been set due to lawsuits and the judge's decisions handed
forth thereof....

Anyways, I really dont want to drag this on anymore..... you have your opinions, regardless what
facts I attempt to present you...... And you have every right TO your opinions...... Thats the
great part of a free society :O)

JB

Jun 28, 2002, 12:26am

> Noting from your "EXPERIENCE" of buying into GOSSIP and BS as well as you
being a person posting HATE
> messages... well... I personally would not trust a single word from your
mouth... You sure speak about
> everything you know nothing about and were never any part of...

That's certainly your right. He has every right to voice his opinion. Just
like you do.

> As for FACTS... In the United States of America, when you check into any
private hospital there is a
> form they immediately offer you to sign asking if you would like your
hospital stay to remain
> confidential. They explain that signing the form would even prohibit your
own family from finding out
> you were there. Privacy is still an option in the U.S. Why you may ask?
To keep idiot slime balls
> from bothering patients could be one reason *S*

Oh yeah? Maybe you never were actually there? There's always that
possibility.

>
> Again... might I suggest an education??

Well, might I suggest a better personality? You're always complaining when
people bitch about you and they're void of education. But when you do it to
them, you're "smarter" then they are.

> Stop wasting everyone's time filling this news group with your false tales
and continuing HATE CRIME
> based gossip attacks.

Hate crime, hahahahaha. That was ALMOST funny. You're not a minority, this
isn't a hate crime. Come to NY, I'll show you a real hate crime.

> GET A LIFE DUDE!!! Your credibility is as worthless as your lacking
intellect as you have shown well
> throughout four news groups now.

Your credibility is fading everytime you insult someone and their
intellgence. Did anyone seem to point out that he's from Texas? No offense
to other Texans, but people from that area do have a reputation to being..
"redneck" like. This is a generalization too, but Filmkr, you are coming
off as an arrogant person at this moment with your "I'm better then thou"
attitude.

--Bowen--

Jun 28, 2002, 12:35am

Hey Lars...... in case you hadnt noticed...... I've got EVERY right to state my opinion here......
dont like it ? filter me.....

Btw.... already GOT an education..... and obviously one that taught me manners and self
restraint..... attributes you obviously haven't mastered yet.......

Ohh yeah... keep tossing those words "HATE CRIME" around.... Seems to me, I havent ever used any
racially inflammatory words or insults.... nor any horrendous statements regarding your religious
beliefs, Killed you cause I dont like white people, spray painted any swastikas on your door, or
burned your church down...... ( in case YOU need an education, THOSE are "hate crimes", you know
SOOO much about the law, or so you claim..... go look it up)

I'm just stating my opinion here.... If I dont happen to like you, so be it..... last time I looked,
there WAS no law that said i couldn't

Filter me any time you so desire, if I'm so insignificant........

Jun 28, 2002, 12:36am

If you show me an actual law on a site that is that specific, show me, and I'll believe it if
the website appears to be a reputable place for information

- YP

[View Quote] Anyways, I really dont want to drag this on anymore..... you have your opinions, regardless
what
facts I attempt to present you...... And you have every right TO your opinions...... Thats the
great part of a free society :O)

JB

Jun 28, 2002, 12:53am

You don't have to be a minority to be victim of a hate crime. Where were you when Johnny B
insulted more than just Filmkr's intelligence? I guess it's alright for people on your side of
this debate?

- YP

[View Quote] That's certainly your right. He has every right to voice his opinion. Just
like you do.

> As for FACTS... In the United States of America, when you check into any
private hospital there is a
> form they immediately offer you to sign asking if you would like your
hospital stay to remain
> confidential. They explain that signing the form would even prohibit your
own family from finding out
> you were there. Privacy is still an option in the U.S. Why you may ask?
To keep idiot slime balls
> from bothering patients could be one reason *S*

Oh yeah? Maybe you never were actually there? There's always that
possibility.

>
> Again... might I suggest an education??

Well, might I suggest a better personality? You're always complaining when
people bitch about you and they're void of education. But when you do it to
them, you're "smarter" then they are.

> Stop wasting everyone's time filling this news group with your false tales
and continuing HATE CRIME
> based gossip attacks.

Hate crime, hahahahaha. That was ALMOST funny. You're not a minority, this
isn't a hate crime. Come to NY, I'll show you a real hate crime.

> GET A LIFE DUDE!!! Your credibility is as worthless as your lacking
intellect as you have shown well
> throughout four news groups now.

Your credibility is fading everytime you insult someone and their
intellgence. Did anyone seem to point out that he's from Texas? No offense
to other Texans, but people from that area do have a reputation to being..
"redneck" like. This is a generalization too, but Filmkr, you are coming
off as an arrogant person at this moment with your "I'm better then thou"
attitude.

--Bowen--

Jun 28, 2002, 1:00am

"johnny b" <uniquect at optonline.net> "if you were in the hospital and I knew your real name, I
could just call and ask
the information desk your room # ( under the guise of perhaps, wanting to send a card or flowers ) and
they'd give it to me....... simple as that.......
I speak from experience...... Thats what I saw every day for three years"
"johnny b" <uniquect at optonline.net>

<<<Those were your words and you closed by saying that you spoke from "experience". You were not
stating an opinion, you were off posting foolish statements and attempting to back them up as yourself
being an "experienced" person who " saw every day for three years"

So considering that you look to lies, gossip and hate for your information... it is no wonder you do not
even recall your own written words in these hate posts. Your history in the AW news groups has been a
slew of hate toward not only myself, but others as well. Once again, I remind you... you have never
ever met me... yet you run at the mouth with your "opinions" 100% based on your gossip fed imagination
and warped paradigms.

Stop sluing the newsgroups full of your "opinions" You say you have manners? Show some and flush next
time instead of posting it here. In "my" opinion, that would make the mass majority of news group
readers very happy.






[View Quote] > Hey Lars...... in case you hadnt noticed...... I've got EVERY right to state my opinion here......
> dont like it ? filter me.....
>
> Btw.... already GOT an education..... and obviously one that taught me manners and self
> restraint..... attributes you obviously haven't mastered yet.......
>
> Ohh yeah... keep tossing those words "HATE CRIME" around.... Seems to me, I havent ever used any
> racially inflammatory words or insults.... nor any horrendous statements regarding your religious
> beliefs, Killed you cause I dont like white people, spray painted any swastikas on your door, or
> burned your church down...... ( in case YOU need an education, THOSE are "hate crimes", you know
> SOOO much about the law, or so you claim..... go look it up)
>
> I'm just stating my opinion here.... If I dont happen to like you, so be it..... last time I looked,
> there WAS no law that said i couldn't
>
> Filter me any time you so desire, if I'm so insignificant........

Jun 28, 2002, 1:07am

Maybe I should restate that. The only way you can be a victim to a hate
crime is when you're of a different race then the person who's commenting
negatively. Even then, hate crimes are generally a physical dispute. Not
he says, she says things. Although it can be, it's usually mostly physical
attacks.

But I assume Lars is white from his photographs, and since I'm white, it's
not a hate crime. At least none from me. It's just my opinions on him that
he dislikes. He spouts false information when he sees that (such as it
being a hate crime.. false information).

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 1:10am

Ok, my tiredness is really setting in now (I've been up for three days with
four hours of sleep). Hate crimes can also be against people of different
"customs." Like a heterosexual hazing a homosexual, or a Christian to a
Jewish person. I hope I'm not missing anything else.

Certainly, this is not a hate crime from that information.

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 1:11am

nope, a hate crime is a crime against a social group, if not tell me differently with proof :)

- YP

[View Quote] But I assume Lars is white from his photographs, and since I'm white, it's
not a hate crime. At least none from me. It's just my opinions on him that
he dislikes. He spouts false information when he sees that (such as it
being a hate crime.. false information).

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 1:36am

by definition, a hate crime can be conducted to any person from any
person.. definition is as follows:

CHAPTER 265. CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON.

Chapter 265: Section 37. Violations of constitutional rights; punishment.

Section 37. No person, whether or not acting under color of law, shall
by force or threat of force, willfully injure, intimidate or interfere
with, or attempt to injure, intimidate or interfere with, or oppress or
threaten any other person in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right
or privilege secured to him by the constitution or laws of the
commonwealth or by the constitution or laws of the United States. Any
person convicted of violating this provision shall be fined not more
than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year or both;
and if bodily injury results, shall be punished by a fine of not more
than ten thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than ten
years, or both.

now this is taken from the state of Massachusetts, however it applies in
most every state as it is referencing the constitution.

note that it says 'any person' and 'by the consitution or laws of the
United States'
taken from : http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/265-37.htm

Jun 28, 2002, 1:36am

see above post.. hate crimes are not against minorities.. they are
against all people and the laws are carried out accordingly


[View Quote] > Hey Lars...... in case you hadnt noticed...... I've got EVERY right to state my opinion here......
> dont like it ? filter me.....
>
> Btw.... already GOT an education..... and obviously one that taught me manners and self
> restraint..... attributes you obviously haven't mastered yet.......
>
> Ohh yeah... keep tossing those words "HATE CRIME" around.... Seems to me, I havent ever used any
> racially inflammatory words or insults.... nor any horrendous statements regarding your religious
> beliefs, Killed you cause I dont like white people, spray painted any swastikas on your door, or
> burned your church down...... ( in case YOU need an education, THOSE are "hate crimes", you know
> SOOO much about the law, or so you claim..... go look it up)
>
> I'm just stating my opinion here.... If I dont happen to like you, so be it..... last time I looked,
> there WAS no law that said i couldn't
>
> Filter me any time you so desire, if I'm so insignificant........
>
>
>

Jun 28, 2002, 2:14am

Sorry the law says she can ... right or wrong the law is the law ... put
there by the same concept of democracy which claims to have put insanity in
the committee ... surely you dont just support democracy when it suits you?
That would be hypocritical.

Glitter

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:14am

see my previous post ... he can only use the court to appeal for partial
costs after the money for failure to fullfill has been paid ... see your
local consumer guidebook or call your local consumer advocate ... I believe
most local govt offices in the USA should be able to provide you with one.

Glitter

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:20am

> However, two of the important facts are:
> 1. Never refused a refund.

then send her one NOW

> 2. Never refused delivery of avatars.

or do this as requested in your contract with her.

simple ... you have one of these choices or you are Fraudulent. You've
chosen to do niether ... the fall out you see here is your own fault ... add
that to all the other awful things that occured in those logs that have been
posted and its no wonder people have been questioning your character ... you
brought all this on yourself.

My advice ... refund her and post an apology, then offer to step down from
the committee ... only way to start earning back your credibility from your
detractors.

Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

> As for more facts... the hysterical and libelous comments from the
disgruntle
> person are so far from the truth. Further facts are that the person has
seen
> the avatars she had ordered and approved of their texturing and added
features
> with exception of one avatar . She claims nothing was ever done. Another
fact
> is that the person sends such vulgar e-mails, no one would care to read
the
> trash. In other newsgroups she has claimed so many other excuses and if I
> recall, stated she would never even accept them if sent to her. So you
see...
> we are on top of this as best we can be here...
>
> We would hope she would let a judge hear this... that would allow us a
counter
> suit for all the slander and libel as well as the intentional interference
with
> business relations of our customers among other things.
>
> We also hope that the BBB would become involved so that we could reply to
them
> and that they could then explain the facts of life to the person. As it is
now,
> the person has violated licensing rights by sharing the avatars with other
> worlds. Therefore we are owed licensing fees for those avatars she
distributed
> unlawfully.
>
> So there ia always a bigger picture... the full picture is so simple...
she
> order many items... she received the majority of her order, in the process
she
> "freaked" out over a five minute ejection and then took continual bad
advice
> from people who are not worthy of clear unbiased thoughts. She has not
been
> rational ever since. Therefore we cannot do anything at this point until a
> rational third party becomes "legally" involved. That is something I can
only
> hope happens soon.
>
> Peace, health & healing to all...
>
> InSaNiTy & Filmkr
>
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:26am

Show me the laws, I have not said "The law says..." anywhere in my posts, because I know laws
don't get specific enough for this kind of situation, there are laws protecting both business
and consumer, it would not be fair to just protect the consumer. She may be able to get her
avatars, and that's it.

- YP

[View Quote] Glitter

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:27am

no YP ... consumer protection in the USA is federal AND state supported ...
and exteremely tested in case law, why?... you guys really like to try and
sell stuff across borders and not deliver it ... sorry thats been federally
recognised for decades.

Isn't anyone asking how an australian knows all this yet? I'm stunned ;-)

Glitter

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:34am

Goods and services supply are treated the same under law with exception to
contractual periodic services, which can only be paid after delivery
coincidentally ... so if they say they want it up front report them! ...
think cleaning and office maintenance ... its the reason why some companies
try to push certain goods as part of a service contract ... so they can get
paid upfront. Dont try to interpret the law till you at least read the law
... it can put harmful false beliefs in the public view which may lead them
to become less protected.

Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:34am

Good copy and paste job!


[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:38am

Reply to things in post below...

[View Quote] > However, two of the important facts are:
> 1. Never refused a refund.

then send her one NOW << He pointed her to the 30 day policy, whether it exists or not, it is
what he did, so his option is only number 2

> 2. Never refused delivery of avatars.

or do this as requested in your contract with her. << she cancelled, remember?

simple ... you have one of these choices or you are Fraudulent. You've
chosen to do niether ... the fall out you see here is your own fault ... add
that to all the other awful things that occured in those logs that have been
posted and its no wonder people have been questioning your character ... you
brought all this on yourself. << The only people who've questioned his character is the people
on ambi's side of the debate, the ones who are not going to current fact and proof and only
believers

My advice ... refund her and post an apology, then offer to step down from
the committee ... only way to start earning back your credibility from your
detractors << If he steped down from the committee, he would only have let you guys get the best
of him. The community voted him in, he would be letting the community down.

Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

> As for more facts... the hysterical and libelous comments from the
disgruntle
> person are so far from the truth. Further facts are that the person has
seen
> the avatars she had ordered and approved of their texturing and added
features
> with exception of one avatar . She claims nothing was ever done. Another
fact
> is that the person sends such vulgar e-mails, no one would care to read
the
> trash. In other newsgroups she has claimed so many other excuses and if I
> recall, stated she would never even accept them if sent to her. So you
see...
> we are on top of this as best we can be here...
>
> We would hope she would let a judge hear this... that would allow us a
counter
> suit for all the slander and libel as well as the intentional interference
with
> business relations of our customers among other things.
>
> We also hope that the BBB would become involved so that we could reply to
them
> and that they could then explain the facts of life to the person. As it is
now,
> the person has violated licensing rights by sharing the avatars with other
> worlds. Therefore we are owed licensing fees for those avatars she
distributed
> unlawfully.
>
> So there ia always a bigger picture... the full picture is so simple...
she
> order many items... she received the majority of her order, in the process
she
> "freaked" out over a five minute ejection and then took continual bad
advice
> from people who are not worthy of clear unbiased thoughts. She has not
been
> rational ever since. Therefore we cannot do anything at this point until a
> rational third party becomes "legally" involved. That is something I can
only
> hope happens soon.
>
> Peace, health & healing to all...
>
> InSaNiTy & Filmkr
>
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:40am

correction ambi...
> libel involves lying. i haven't lied.

libel and slander (different) involve the deliberate intent to discredit or
destroy without reasonable cause ... the causitive reasons are called
'exclusions' and include things like public interest groups or forums (like
this), warnings to consumers (this is how the govt gets away with it),
standard local media rights (exclusions usually apply only for registered
media), etc. If you were to post hate for the sake of hate even if it were
the truth it would still form slander ... if you as an individual do it for
the sake of questioning process for the protection of others (this forum is
very appropriate for such a discussion) then it is not ... you are simply
seeking answers to where is your money, others are asking him to verify
information, I am seeking the answers to the credibility of the awards
process which calls into question the credibility of an invidual ... all
legitimate and not slanderous in the slightest.

Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

> the person has seen
> features
> now that is an outrageous lie. i never saw any added features. you told
me
> you were trying to tack curls on their heads, and couldn't get it right.
> you made references to 'improvements' of the fairies, but other than the
> curls, never even told me what those other features were. then you told
me
> you had 'lost' the fairy files, and would have to start over again. you
> never again told me you were doing any work on the fairies of any kind.
>
> uh yeah. i claim nothing was ever done on it cause you those were the
words
> out of your very mouth -- that you had not done any work on the scorpion
> king avatar, but you 'thought you were getting your thoughts together'.
>
> the> trash.
> oh yeah. gosh. what was it again? let me look it up. ah. here. you
> must mean when i said you could take all the newsgroup posts you told me
you
> have been collecting and shove them up your... oh. that's it. i used
the
> heinie word. gosh. i'm sowwy.
>
> if I > recall, stated she would never even accept them if sent to her.
> yeah i'll accept them. so long as they are completed as ordered,
discussed,
> and agreed to. here -- i'll even go you one better -- i'll even take $160
> worth of non-custom avatars of my choice. just say the word. i'll pick
em.
> you send em. i'll send you a statement that i am satisfied.
>
> allow us a counter> suit for all the slander and libel as well as the
> intentional interference with> business relations of our customers among
> other things.
> oh dear god. slander and libel are based on LIES that cause damage.
TRUTH
> that causes damage is not prosecutable in any way shape or form. so
because
> it is the truth, and i can prove it, i can freely say, verbally or in
> writing, that you defrauded me out of $160. doesn't matter if it gets
your
> panties in a wad. doesn't matter if you lose every customer you have.
> because it is the truth, and i can prove it,
>
> other> worlds. Therefore we are owed licensing fees for those avatars she
> distributed> unlawfully.
> blatant lie. i sent one avatar to one person for 10 minutes to test it.
> that is not 'sharing with other worlds'. that's a 10 minute test. you
said
> it was fine. i have the chat log. he deleted the avatar after the test.
i
> sent you confirmation. i have that recorded too.
> the other avatar i sent to someone is the one i bought from you
specifically
> for the purpose of giving it for a gift. you said that was fine. in
fact,
> you said that was kind. i have that recorded too.
> now an example of a license violation is that you sent one of my custom
avs
> to someone as a gift to use in their world. not to test. not with my
> permission. THAT's a license violation. now you understand the
difference?
> luckily, the person recognized what was happening, and deleted the av from
> her world.
>
>
>
>

Jun 28, 2002, 2:40am

wrong ... read the law

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:40am

good post .. at last people are reading the law :-)


[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:41am

Maybe so, but the example itself is off, services and products are not similar. I think Bob's
Birdhouses was as easy of an example as you could get.

- YP

[View Quote] Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:46am

I explained that already too ... you are just not reading ... please ring
your local consumer advocate and ask them .... I'm running late

Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:46am

Stop pitying yourself so much ... these are legitimate questions by people
within the relevant community questioning your business practices in the
light of information (and proof by your own agreeance) that an activity
outside of 'legal' contract occured. They are not hate posts. You labelling
people as posting hate under these circumstances IS slanderous of them ...
another unlawful activity on your behalf? Just my two cents worth.

Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)


[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:46am

i wasn't gonna type all that.. LoL ;)


[View Quote] > Good copy and paste job!
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:47am

Good lord, do you not get it? I have posted about 20 times to you, show me a freaking website
with these laws on them! This involves showing me the same text that you looked off of, I don't
believe I could put it more simple than that.

- YP

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:47am

i looked it up primarily because i think that there was some confusion
between a hate crime and racism. I hope this has cleared things up

Ra

[View Quote] > good post .. at last people are reading the law :-)
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2002, 2:48am

Just show me the same site you learned off of, I don't think you called a place regarding US
laws, would have cost lots of money long distance :)

- YP

[View Quote] Glitter

(on holiday and posting via dial up(yuk) so cant reply as quick as before)

[View Quote]

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