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Jun 26, 2002, 1:17pm

I'm correcting you because you ARE WRONG.... re-read the post and find
out that it was NOT him it was HIS CO-WORKER that was using his account to
send the message.... wow give it a rest... your doing no good here for
anyone....including the "community".... hell, about the only thing this
type of attitude does is keep people from posting in these groups in the
first place.... afraid of being ganged up on...... ok so you all made
your point why continue with the insults and accusations? and with no
proof yet as to any wrong doing. If he broke the law so many
times(suggested fraud), then how come he's still in business... logic
rulez :)

Leo :)




[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 2:31pm

[View Quote] read them yourself ... one was from the co-workewr ... if you even believe
that however you need your head examined ... just look how many other times
insanity posts as other ppl and uses those names to support himself ... get
a life and see the nose on your face.

> send the message.... wow give it a rest... your doing no good here for
> anyone....including the "community".... hell, about the only thing this
> type of attitude does is keep people from posting in these groups in the
> first place.... afraid of being ganged up on......

I asked a question which to date has not been resolved as far as I'm
concerned ... did I suddenly lose the right to free speech?? About the only
ganging up here is people who seem to support someone who's ethics (to say
the least) are extremely questionable ... if you don't like the issue
brought up then get used to disappointment. If people are afraid to speak
then I dare say its because they fear all you guys might gang up on them
.... it seems you don't like ppl who are strong enough to express an opinion
which disagrees with yours!! Sorry but that's life ... get used to it ...
not everyone is going to backdown because you dont like what they have to
say :-)

ok so you all made
> your point why continue with the insults and accusations? and with no
> proof yet as to any wrong doing. If he broke the law so many
> times(suggested fraud), then how come he's still in business... logic
> rulez :)

There has been plenty of proof ... if you dont want to read it then thats
entirely up to you. If you truely cared about the community you would want
to make sure that newbies who come along stay as far away from people like
insanty as they possibly can ... of course if you want them to get ripped
off then you just keep sticking up for the creep. Your right too ... but I
cant help wonder why.

Glitter

Jun 26, 2002, 2:52pm

I do not expect you to "back down" just learn to live with it... you do have
your opinion and it has been expressed...noted...and filed.....move on to
someone else... and I am not "sticking up for the creep" as you say....and
as far as having my head examined well that tort by you is just an
example of what your doing to others...ATTACK.... one message by you about
your opinions towards him would have been enough...but you continue your
attacks.... makes me wonder why?..... are you just another avatar creator
that is jealous of him and his status? food for thought only....:) and I
must reiterate....I do not even know him never met him....not even in AW
I don't think.... so my only reason for argument is that I am looking at
BOTH sides here.... and I only see a couple people upset with him.... and
there are thousands of AW cits...and prolly hundreds that HAVE done business
with him...and only a few complaints(misunderstandings) sounds like a good
record to me....If he is as bad as you people say...then show the proof.....
start a thread with NOTHING but customers of his. One Post per customer.
lets see what happens. If he's THAT bad everyone needs to know....
otherwise stop your crusade here, and take it to the BBB.

Leo :)

..


[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 3:05pm

I know Insanity as a friend, he and everyone else willing to donate and helps the community
forthright should be allowed to judge the community, just as anyone else. But "let in" was my 2
word equivalent of you saying "only highlighting some associations. You know it makes me wonder
how insanity got those past CYawards". In what way does he lack credibility and integrity? I'm
hopefully looking for fact reasons, or personal encounters. If one of them is about ambivalent
not getting her refund, well, it was mentioned in the contract only 30 days for a refund, and a
business should go by the contract they set out, so that reason isn't valid as to lower his
credibility and integrity.

- YP

[View Quote] Glitter



[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 3:15pm

How can you say the Cy's have no credibility in the eyes of many? Count the people who have
pounced on Insanity for his business practice, its only 15 or so people, the Cy's attract an
attendance of 200-300 people. AlphaBit needs to do nothing to restore the credibility of the
Cy's, it's still there except for this 15 or so people, and all she and the rest of the
community can do to fix that is to show you the facts, facts count more than word of mouth.

- YP

[View Quote] Glitter


[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 3:33pm

First of all, the Cy's committee is over 40-50 people, it's truly a great event in the end and
has been for years. It is one of the most stable community events, one person you believe is
dishonest you believe is in the committee will not affect it. Several community organizations
have people in them who the majority of people think is dishonest, but the event itself turns
out a honest event. Insanity is a fully trustworthy and honest person, he donates objects to the
community, and volunteered to help in the Cy's. I see nothing dishonest associated with
Insanity, he got accused of stealing an avatar, in which the person said they were taking
Insanity to court, well where's the outcome of this? If there were an outcome besides his
innocence, then maybe that would qualify as a dishonest factor. He ejected someone from a world
for 5 minutes, the owner demands refund after 30 days, says her money was taken, and feels she
doesn't own her world anymore, if you think ejecting someone for 5 minutes from a world you host
is a qualifying dishonest factor, then so be it.

- YP

[View Quote] Glitter



[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 7:01pm

Politics! I absolutely loathe Politics!

I've already seen Politics almost ruin one chat program (and kill an
otherwise originally very worthy organization in that same program).
Regardless of what side you are on, or what your opinion you may have, let's
not let Politics destroy Active Worlds!

Barbara of Amberlin
aka Barbara Eisner aka Barbarae

Jun 26, 2002, 7:10pm

hear hear!!! i second that!!!!!!


[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 7:37pm

Perhaps you've not met him in person, he does have morals and is a decent man, in what way did
he take money? If his client asked for a refund after 30 days, yet in contract it stated no
refund after 30 days, then well, it is simply the client's fault. I don't believe anyone has
lost any money in him, except for one person, but it was their own fault. So therefore, he is
not a crook.

- YP

[View Quote] I also seem to remember inquiring as to your health, as I'm not a sadistic person and don't wish
anyone ill health..... I also asked you to back up your claims of this "serious cardiac
surgery"
with some manner of proof.... As, Honestly, You've quite a track record of half and untruths
here...... Hell, I even offered to not make another post AND post an apology, had you proven you
were ACTUALLY ill..... I wish no ill on ANY person.... But alas, you never responded to
THAT...... perhaps there was no way you COULD....... BTW, I dont give a hoot about the Vice
Secretary, Dick Cheney....... HE is a man with impeccable credentials and DEMONSTRATED morals
and
maturity........ you on the other hand...... well, lets just count all the dollars that
people
have lost involving you....

Also........ Hate is a pretty harsh word there Lars...... I never alluded to "hating"
you........ I
just think you're a crook....... ( allegedly, of course)

Oh yes...... almost forgot....... I'm not a kid, genius...... in case you forgot from the LAST
bunch of nastiness you posted here..... (might wanna read back some and refresh your failing
memory)
I'm 33 years old, and an electrician / datacom systems installer..... but I suppose my MANY
YEARS
of schooling don't count as an education, huh ?? Maybe if I work real hard I can host worlds
and
make gor sequences and be an actor sometimes.....

Save your presumptuous egotistical crap for someone here who MIGHT be impressed...... or just
blinded by your smoke screens, attention shifting antics, and generally outrageous self
aggrandizations.......

And If you WERE ill....... I sincerely hope you're feeling better...... I'd assume you were,
since you can write posts like that.....

Jun 26, 2002, 7:38pm

Too bad its something you cant live with, but cant live without... lol

- YP

[View Quote] I've already seen Politics almost ruin one chat program (and kill an
otherwise originally very worthy organization in that same program).
Regardless of what side you are on, or what your opinion you may have, let's
not let Politics destroy Active Worlds!

Barbara of Amberlin
aka Barbara Eisner aka Barbarae

Jun 26, 2002, 8:40pm

what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him in advance for 5 avatars,
which he never delivered. he refuses to refund my money, and he refuses to
deliver the avatars. that's more than a 'dishonest factor' -- that's a
crime -- it's called fraud.


[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2002, 8:44pm

If such is true, you can send him to court, or contact the better business bureau, if you don't,
then it's merely words, since you and Insanity have conflicting stories, if you take him to
court and win, you'll get more believers of his so-called fraudulent business practices

- YP

[View Quote]
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 1:11am

YP doesnt see that as stealing because it was not her who he stole from ...
you will always find people who will support a 'friend' no matter how evil
their actions have been to other people ... they just dont want to believe
their 'friend' could have stooped so low ... and yes, ambivalent, what he
did was stealing ... he is required, by law, to deliver on the contract paid
for if he doesnt wish to give you a refund ... We've all seen the way he
treated Paul in your chat room ... I wouldn't hold your breath for that
refund!

YP is confusing the hosting with the sale of products ... two seperate rip
off events YP ... read the story before you defend the criminal.

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 1:45am

Is it worth sending someone to court for $160? Practically speaking it
usually isnt. The US justice dept did a survey on this a few years back
(sorry I dont have a URL for it) whereby they discovered that almost 50% of
the population had at some stage in the 10 year sample period been defrauded
of up to $500 and failed to prosecute because of the difficulty involved ...
it simply wasnt worth it. So YP, just because fraud isnt challenged doesnt
mean it didnt happen ... 1 in 2 people here (statistically speaking) with be
defrauded just like ambivalent. The catch (wait for it) was that most of the
sample surveyed stated they had found their 'revenge' by other means, most
typically advertising the fraud in the community some how .... isnt it funny
how some things never change!! Gotta love how the USA works.

regards

Glitter in Australia

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 1:46am

Politics has been a part of AW since the beginning by litterally thousands
of ppl ... didnt destroy it yet... AWC does itself more harm with bizarre
business practicess that dont make sense to normal ppl than a few ppl do in
a single NG thread ... dont worry ... your community is quite safe :-).

Voting is a political process ... how can we talking about the integrity of
a voting process without being political (per se).

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 3:45am

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Simply because there are several who continue to try and terrorize others and
post lies here to attempt many harm, I will post the facts below.

1. Never refused a refund ever. There are users who have received refunds from
us within the 30 days. This disgruntle party here was never refused a refund.
They were simply pointed to the 30 day refund policy.

2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is that the
disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she "Canceled" her
avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to her. This cancellation
was well beyond the 30 day time window and a large amount of work was already
performed on the order which she approved of.

3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when irrational hysteria
is the basis of the request.

Enough said already...

Hoping that people will find some peace, health & healing ...
Tip for the day... go get some sun light...

Filmkr & InSaNiTy
One and the Same, as it's always been stated throughout history...


> what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him in advance for 5 avatars,
> which he never delivered. he refuses to refund my money, and he refuses to
> deliver the avatars. that's more than a 'dishonest factor' -- that's a
> crime -- it's called fraud.
>
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Simply because there are several who continue to try and terrorize others
and post lies here to attempt many harm, I will post the facts below.
<p>1. Never refused a refund ever. There are users who have received refunds
from us within the 30 days. This disgruntle party here was never refused
a refund. They were simply pointed to the 30 day refund policy.
<p>2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is that
the disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she "Canceled"
her avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to her. This cancellation
was well beyond the 30 day time window and a large amount of work was already
performed on the order which she approved of.&nbsp;
<p>3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when irrational
hysteria is the basis of the request.
<p>Enough said already...
<p>Hoping that people will find some peace, health &amp; healing ...
<br><b>Tip for the day... go get some sun light...</b><b></b>
<p><b>Filmkr &amp; InSaNiTy</b>
<br><b>One and the Same, as it's always been stated throughout history...</b>
<br><b></b>&nbsp;
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him
in advance for 5 avatars,
<br>which he never delivered.&nbsp; he refuses to refund my money, and
he refuses to
<br>deliver the avatars.&nbsp; that's more than a 'dishonest factor' --
that's a
<br>crime -- it's called fraud.
[View Quote] --------------B7E038342B5E94B5FD11B742--

Jun 27, 2002, 4:00am

Well, BBE is free to complain to, and ambivalent told me that, but of course you need a
response - I just emailed her and asked if she did got any response, my guess is she didn't yet.

- YP

[View Quote] regards

Glitter in Australia

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 4:03am

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You might wish to speak to legal council... the posts in here show many veteran
users suggesting to you that you made you opinion known and that all your
continued posts appear to be nothing more than "attacks"

Myself... I clearly see your attacks and your attempts to mislead readers.

Facts:

1.No one was ever defrauded.
2.You do not know me and have never met me.
3. You post hateful, slanderous, misleading information in the form of libel for
the sole purpose of defaming and damaging a person and a legitimate, legal
company's business and interrupt in business relations.
4. Your allegations are 100% false and baseless... your sources are gossip and
hearsay.

Formerly requesting that you cease this deliberate attack and defamation
immediately.

I am Formerly requesting that Active Worlds stand up to it's posted policy by
Tom Forney as official AW spokesperson, that users like yourself be banned from
posting personal attacks.

What happened Tom? Why is Active Worlds not following it's posted policy here?
Why is Active Worlds supporting this hate bashing spree which has now plagued
another AW newsgroup? AW has banned others but sadly this time is showing
discrimination and bias to allow hate crimes to be committed.




[View Quote] > Is it worth sending someone to court for $160? Practically speaking it
> usually isnt. The US justice dept did a survey on this a few years back
> (sorry I dont have a URL for it) whereby they discovered that almost 50% of
> the population had at some stage in the 10 year sample period been defrauded
> of up to $500 and failed to prosecute because of the difficulty involved ...
> it simply wasnt worth it. So YP, just because fraud isnt challenged doesnt
> mean it didnt happen ... 1 in 2 people here (statistically speaking) with be
> defrauded just like ambivalent. The catch (wait for it) was that most of the
> sample surveyed stated they had found their 'revenge' by other means, most
> typically advertising the fraud in the community some how .... isnt it funny
> how some things never change!! Gotta love how the USA works.
>
> regards
>
> Glitter in Australia
>
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You might wish to speak to legal council...&nbsp; the posts in here show
many veteran users suggesting to you that you made you opinion known and
that all your continued posts appear to be nothing more than "attacks"
<p>Myself... I clearly see your attacks and your attempts to mislead readers.
<p>Facts:
<p>1.No one was ever defrauded.
<br>2.You do not know me and have never met me.
<br>3. You post hateful, slanderous, misleading information in the form
of libel for the sole purpose of defaming and damaging a person and a legitimate,
legal&nbsp; company's business and interrupt in business relations.
<br>4. Your allegations are 100% false and baseless... your sources are
gossip and hearsay.
<p>Formerly requesting that you cease this deliberate attack and defamation
immediately.
<p><b>I am Formerly requesting that Active Worlds stand up to it's posted
policy by Tom Forney as official AW spokesperson, that users like yourself&nbsp;
be banned from posting personal attacks.</b>
<p><b>What happened Tom?&nbsp; Why is Active Worlds not following it's
posted policy here?&nbsp; Why is Active Worlds supporting this hate bashing
spree which has now plagued another AW newsgroup? AW has banned others
but sadly this time is showing discrimination and bias to allow hate crimes
to be committed.</b>
<br><b></b>&nbsp;
<br><b></b>&nbsp;
<br><b></b>&nbsp;
[View Quote] --------------BA303D3EBBBA5856119EB901--

Jun 27, 2002, 4:14am

First of all, litter kitty (thanks AlphaBit!), I am a guy, second, I wouldn't defend evil.
Insanity says that the hosting AND sale of products could not be refunded due to the 30 day
refund policy. Ambi says [I think?] it was less than 30 days, therefore she contacted the BBE. A
response from the BBE, or some other form a proof. Do they have innocence before PROVEN guilty
in Australia? Well, seems in the NG's it is innocence before rumored guilty. I am simply saying,
and my reason for defending Insanity, is that he is innocent! Now, give some proof (valid
non-word-of-mouth-or-a-persons-story kind of proof), which would prove, that he may be guilty.
If it appears he his guilty, I wouldn't think that me defending him made me look like an idiot,
I would nonetheless feel proud I defended innocence before proven guilty which exists in my
country (USA).

- YP

[View Quote] YP is confusing the hosting with the sale of products ... two seperate rip
off events YP ... read the story before you defend the criminal.

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 5:34am

Insanity,

Now for a lesson in law: At the end of the day you promised to deliver a
product, you failed to deliver that product (note technically the 30 days
haven't started until ALL the products and services have been delivered ...
plenty of US case law precedents to establish this). You did however accept
payment in advance for the delivery of service (creation/supply of avatars).
You did not supply them (irrespective of the cancellation), hence your very
own policy (under which she purchased the services) requires that you refund
the monies. There was no printed exclusions to this effect and from what I
gather none were offered verbatum. You played on an interpretation of your
policy not supported by law in order to retain monies for services not
delivered (remember that you cannot create a contract unsupported by law and
if you do it reverts to legal trade practice regulations (yes I have
extensive legal experience)). I hate to be the one to tell you this but
LEGALLY that is FRAUD. Now if you claim that as slander please do go ahead
and try to prosecute. I have stated my case clearly and openly and I do so
under the belief and benefit (US slander exclusion) that provision of
information is in the public interest and may serve as a protection until
verification of actions by a court (plently of case precedents and
exclusions exist to protect my rights under these circumstances within the
US and overseas ... I reside in Australia, the news server is private
property and resides in the USA).

The above is not heresay or hate or anything else ... my purpose is and was
not to discredit you for any personal gain or destruction of your business.
I have clearly maintained the grounds of my primary concern and not deviated
from that. As such your claims are baseless. This is no hate crime or
terrorism as you so dramatically exagerate. A hate crime (criminally
speaking) is something like racism, bigotry or other negative
discrimination. Terrorism is the use of force to create fear preventing an
individual or group from exercising their human rights (US state dept
definition). Last time I looked there were more arguing your side of the
bench.

Other circumstances regarding your business practices have been withheld
from this forum as they are not relevant to my primary concern which was the
integrity of the Cyawards process. Had I brought those issues up then you'd
most certainly have grounds for your claims ... which is why I have not
done. No doubt however for the harm this has done to your business and
credibility you'd have been financially better off just giving ambivalent
her money back.

Any other legal technicalities you'd like to ask me?

Anyhow I've had enough of this bickering which could have been ended by
Alpha on the very first post ... as far as I'm concerened there is a
distinct bias going on in this awards process which moves to undermine its
credibility and I intend to encourage others to boycott it or vote for
people they believe have no chance of winning so as to skew the results. I
guess at least you will agree that's my democratic right!!

nuff said

Glitter


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 5:40am

YP you seem to forget that both ambi and insanity agree that the monies were
taken and the avs not delivered ... there is no heresay .... they both agree
.... why cant you see that. Insanity, however, says thats his right under his
policy. The law does not agree with his interpretation. Its quite simple and
extremely tested in law ... no heresay or opinion ... plain and simple
business law. Virtually any business law book you pick up will be able to
verify this if you have the time and are truely interested in understanding
the reality of business practice. There is no presumption of inocence
required. His own admission of process is outside that of law ... he just
wishes to contest that ... unfortunately its well documented as not
contestable and he wouldnt be able to defend it. So yes quite clearly you
are standing up for someone who has broken the law (whether knowingly or
not). I would ask that you take the time to read up on the basic aspects of
contract law so you understand how I am entitled to make these statements.

(G)litter


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 6:15am

Let me make an example... Bob's Birdhouses makes birdhouses. Bob's birdhouses has a contract
stating no refunds after 30 days. You order a custom birdhouse. You are told it will take 45-60
days. When the birdhouse is done, the Bob steps on a roach. You then cancel your birdhouse and
want a refund, well, can't get a refund according to contract. You lose money because you got
pissed off for Bob stepping on a cockroach.

- YP

[View Quote] (G)litter


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 6:43am

I think you are wrong Glitter.

Going only by postings in this thread... Insanity commenced work on the
order placed, which was not cancelled within the cooling off period.
Insanity has every right to keep the money, and if Ambivalent wants he/she
can take whatever portion of the work has been completed by Insanity.
Obviously if Ambivalent cancelled the order completely then he/she doesn't
want any potion of the work delivered.

Having said that, why do we need to see all this hashed out in the
newsgroups? Why do you have to sully Insanity's name? The dispute is
between Insanity and Ambivelent, and none or your business.

Regards, Justin


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 7:00am

wonderful sidestep but sorry the analogy is not parallel ... the law is
quite clear as much as you dont like how it might be applied. I cant teach
you law and no doubt you dont want to know how it applies to this case so
I'm afraid no matter what I say it wont change your opinion. You asked for
fact I gave you exactly what both parties agreed on, you said guilt versus
innocence so I gave you the applicable laws ... I'm sorry YP but if you
truely wish to believe this man has committed no breech of contract then
nothing will convince you otherwise. Please do pick yourself up a consumer
guidebook in the very least next time you are out shopping ... ignorance of
the law is no excuse for siding with someone who breaks the law. It really
is that simple.


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 7:08am

[View Quote] While that may make sense in the way you interpret it, trade practice
legislation in virtually every first world country (including the US, Europe
Australia, etc) specifies quite clearly that warrantees, guarentees, cooling
off periods etc do not commemce until complete fulfilment of the contract.
One would actually say this legislation is unfair because it does not take
into account any of the work or materials contributed to by the provider, so
they make a loss ... unfortunately this is how it goes and first ruling is
always in favour of the consumer ... its the principles around which
consumer protection is framed. The vendor can after that rulling appeal for
costs involved in partial fulfilment but not until AFTER all monies are
refunded ... you cant even lodge an appeal until after ... this is where
fraud comes in for witholding monies. Its the law ... you dont have to like
it but it is there for protection of the consumer ... without it all hell
would break loose!

>
> Having said that, why do we need to see all this hashed out in the
> newsgroups? Why do you have to sully Insanity's name? The dispute is
> between Insanity and Ambivelent, and none or your business.

I made my reasons clear from the beginning. My concern was for the integrity
of the CYawards being judged by someone who has acted fraudulently. I
believe the inclusion of such a person is inappropriate and leads to
question the integrity of the awards. Normal practice under such
circumstances is for the person in question to step down. That's all.

Glitter

Jun 27, 2002, 9:23am

Dear Glitter

Perhaps the law is ("unjustly") on the side of Ambivalent. You have lost
sight of why most people here are reacting unfavorably to your posts. You
have gone on an attack of Insanity, and with your inflamed language done
nothing to resolve the matter and everything in an attempt to discredit his
name.

*If* you are correct about the legal position as it applies to Insanity and
his business, then the correct solution would be to find the relevent clause
from the relevent USA legislation, and forward this by email to Ambivalent.
Ambivalent could then decide if it applies and calmly forward this to
Insanity and they could then both come to agreement of what is the correct
legal and or ethical thing to do.

If you were such the voice of reason that you make out to be, then you would
have done the right thing as I have suggested above. Instead you have done
the wrong thing with your attacks, and quite rightly have been chastised by
the Newsgroup regulars.

Regards, Justin


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2002, 9:24am

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ummmm wrongo. you defrauded me out of $160. absolutely. 100%. =
unquestionably. i have absolute 100% solid ample written proof. =20


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ummmm wrongo.&nbsp;&nbsp;you defrauded =
me out of=20
$160.&nbsp; absolutely.&nbsp; 100%.&nbsp; unquestionably.&nbsp; i have =
absolute=20
100% solid ample written proof.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"filmkr" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:nospam at privacy.com">nospam at privacy.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:3D1AA694.BD7D28E0 at privacy.com">news:3D1AA694.BD7D28E0 at privac=
y.com</A>...</DIV>
<P>1.No one was ever defrauded. <BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Jun 27, 2002, 9:34am

30 days has nothing to do with my purchase. insanity told me he would
deliver the avatars in one week. i ordered the avatars on april 15, and
mailed my payment (money order) the next day. it is now months beyond the
one week delivery agreement, and i have received neither the avatars nor a
refund. the only thing i've received from insanity is recent emails saying
he is keeping my money, and not sending me any avatars. clear, blatant,
fraud.

he is not interpreting any law at all. his reason, as written by himself
for defrauding me is, because he 'doesn't like the way i cancelled my avatar
order'.

and by the way, prior to my asking for a refund, i have 2 grams from
insanity where he tells me he is not going to rush himself working on my
avatars, that he would not provide me a delivery date, and telling me if i
want a refund instead of the avatars, he'll give me one.

he is keeping my money for the sole reason that he is a thief and a fraud,
who thinks he is above the law.

Jun 27, 2002, 9:38am

you can not have a 30 refund policy for hosting services (the only posted or
written refund policy heartfall has) and then use that for goods you sell.
here is heartfall's policy regarding avatars, as posted on his web site:
(DELIVERY upon Receipt of Payment)

check the facts before you run your mouth

Jun 27, 2002, 9:43am

no, i never said anything about 30 days in regards to the avatars. 30 days
has nothing to do with the avatars. the 30 day refund policy is clearly
posted as heartfall's hosting service refund policy only. the only policy
posted regarding avatars is 'delivery upon receipt'. this agreement was
modified only in that insanity told me because they were custom avatars, he
could not deliver for one week, to which i agreed.

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