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Cy Nominations Officially Open! (General Discussion)
Cy Nominations Officially Open! // General DiscussionambivalentJun 27, 2002, 9:45am
no, insanity has NEVER told me that it is his right under ANY policy not to
deliver and not to refund. please point me to any policy insanity has regarding avatars other than 'delivery upon receipt'. ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 9:46am
http://worldhosting.heartfall.com/docs/hfsg.html
there is the link his WORLD HOSTING SALES POLICY. there is no avatar sales policy. ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 9:50am
no, let's use this example. bob makes birdhouses. bob has a contract
stating delivery upon receipt. bob tells you it will take one week to deliver your birdhouse. you order 5 custom birdhouses. you wait 6 weeks. bob never makes the birdhouses. bob refuses to tell you when he will give you the birdhouses. bob tells you he will give you a refund because he's not about to rush to make your birdhouses. you finally tell bob you want the refund he offered. bob tells you he doesn't like the way you asked for the refund he offered, and that he's not making you any birdhouses, and not giving you back your money. bob has defrauded you. [View Quote] ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 9:55am
whatever it is you have typed below is far removed from what happened. get
the facts before you spout off. i told insanity i want the avatars, as ordered and agreed to, or my money back. that is legally what he must give me. there is no 'cooling off period' (whatever that might be). his posted policy is 'delivery upon receipt'. i agreed to wait one week instead. that was in april. it is now almost july. ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 10:04am
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------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C21DB1.19EBDCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable you are a liar. you refused to refund my $160. you never pointed me to = any 30 day refund policy. if you did, post the email, and post the link = to your 30 day refund policy FOR AVATARS. it doesn't exist. i have numerous tgrams from you where i ask when you are going to = deliver the avatars, and you responding 'next week', 'this weekend', and = ad infinitum. then i have the tgrams where you refuse to give me a = delivery date, and offer me a refund. your policy is 'delivery upon receipt', and i previously posted the link = to that. you told me it would take one week and i agreed. you are such a liar, insanity. you steal my money, and then make it so = much worse by posting your reprehensible lies and insults. i would love to see you in front of a judge, attempting to explain that = the reason you didn't refund my money is because of 'irrational = hysteria'. especially with me standing there with copies of all your = emails and grams refusing to finish and deliver the avatars. [View Quote] 2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is that = the disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she = "Canceled" her avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to = her. This cancellation was well beyond the 30 day time window and a = large amount of work was already performed on the order which she = approved of. =20 3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when irrational = hysteria is the basis of the request.=20 Enough said already...=20 Hoping that people will find some peace, health & healing ...=20 Tip for the day... go get some sun light...=20 Filmkr & InSaNiTy=20 One and the Same, as it's always been stated throughout history...=20 =20 what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him in advance for 5 = avatars,=20 which he never delivered. he refuses to refund my money, and he = refuses to=20 deliver the avatars. that's more than a 'dishonest factor' -- = that's a=20 crime -- it's called fraud.=20 [View Quote] ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C21DB1.19EBDCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you are a liar. you refused to = refund my=20 $160. you never pointed me to any 30 day refund policy. if = you did,=20 post the email, and post the link to your 30 day refund policy FOR=20 AVATARS. it doesn't exist.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have numerous tgrams from you where i = ask when=20 you are going to deliver the avatars, and you responding 'next week', = 'this=20 weekend', and ad infinitum. then i have the tgrams where you = refuse to=20 give me a delivery date, and offer me a refund.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>your policy is 'delivery upon receipt', = and i=20 previously posted the link to that. you told me it would take one = week and=20 i agreed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you are such a liar, insanity. = you steal my=20 money, and then make it so much worse by posting your reprehensible lies = and=20 insults.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i would love to see you in front of a = judge,=20 attempting to explain that the reason you didn't refund my money is = because of=20 'irrational hysteria'. especially with me standing there with = copies of=20 all your emails and grams refusing to finish and deliver the=20 avatars.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>"filmkr" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:nospam at privacy.com">nospam at privacy.com</A>> wrote in = message=20 <A=20 = href=3D"news:3D1AA23C.DC09D183 at privacy.com">news:3D1AA23C.DC09D183 at privac= y.com</A>...</DIV>Simply=20 because there are several who continue to try and terrorize others and = post=20 lies here to attempt many harm, I will post the facts below.=20 <P>1. Never refused a refund ever. There are users who have received = refunds=20 from us within the 30 days. This disgruntle party here was never = refused a=20 refund. They were simply pointed to the 30 day refund policy.=20 <P>2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is = that the=20 disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she = "Canceled" her=20 avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to her. This = cancellation=20 was well beyond the 30 day time window and a large amount of work was = already=20 performed on the order which she approved of. =20 <P>3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when = irrational=20 hysteria is the basis of the request.=20 <P>Enough said already...=20 <P>Hoping that people will find some peace, health & healing ...=20 <BR><B>Tip for the day... go get some sun light...</B><B></B>=20 <P><B>Filmkr & InSaNiTy</B> <BR><B>One and the Same, as it's = always been=20 stated throughout history...</B> <BR><B></B> =20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i = paid him=20 in advance for 5 avatars, <BR>which he never delivered. he = refuses to=20 refund my money, and he refuses to <BR>deliver the avatars. = that's=20 more than a 'dishonest factor' -- that's a <BR>crime -- it's called = fraud.=20 [View Quote] ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C21DB1.19EBDCE0-- binarybudJun 27, 2002, 11:21am
ok easy fix....just send her the avatars.... why not? that part has me
pondering.....hmmmm Leo :) binarybudJun 27, 2002, 11:47am
ok I'm done pondering....hehehhehe just a thought here.....
Filmkr....If you are not returning the moneys cause you've put too much time into the avatars....then why not just give them to her since they must be almost complete? it makes no sense to say "I've put too much time into them to refund her money", then have nothing to show for your time. This just stikes me as questionable. Leo :) aka BinaryBud [View Quote] what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him in advance for 5 avatars, which he never delivered. he refuses to refund my money, and he refuses to deliver the avatars. that's more than a 'dishonest factor' -- that's a crime -- it's called fraud. [View Quote] ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 11:55am
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------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C21DC0.A8CF9D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry to be posting so much today, but i am absolutely livid i simply = am not going to sit back and let him post his lies and insults without = response. the truth prevails. right prevails. goodness prevails. i = can not and will not allow this man to promulgate his lies and abuse = without response. that man saw a situation in which he was sitting there with my $160, = knowing he had done LITTLE work on my avatars (all he has done is taken = the 4 fairies you see in Mayumi and tack curls on their hair which he = couldn't get on right), he got pissed off because i cancelled my HOSTING = SERVICES, and said to himself 'i'm not going to make those avatars, and = you know what? i'm not going to give her money back either.' why? = because he thinks he is above the law. because he has this concept of = himself, shown many times right here in this NG, that he is somehow = bigger and better than everyone else. special. laws and rules and = morals and ethics apply to everyone else -- but not to him. that's it -- i need to finish this post. sorry. i know it's long. as = soon as i'm done being so pissed off, i promise i won't post so much. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kerstin=20 To: InSaNiTy's Avatars=20 Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Refund Please provide a copy of your AVATAR refund policy in effect during = the April 15 2002 timeframe, along with an explanation of how that = policy was conveyed to customers at that time. For example, provide the = URL to the page on your website where the avatar refund policy was = posted, a copy of the web page along with means of proof that it was = posted at that time, an email to me advising me of the avatar refund = policy, etc. the only purchasing, delivery, or refund policies or = potential policies i have ever been aware of for avatars are the = following as posted on your web site: http://avatars.heartfall.com/ Get Your Avatars today!=20 http://www.heartfall.com/aw/avatars/order.html (DELIVERY upon Receipt of Payment) the only refund policy i have ever been aware of is your World Hosting = Services by Heartfall Productions Sales Policy, which of course, as one = would expect, has absolutely no references whatsoever to purchases of = anything other than hosting services. World Hosting Services by Heartfall Productions=20 Sales Policy=20 http://worldhosting.heartfall.com/docs/hfsg.html If you CAN NOT produce an avatar refund policy in effect at the time = of my purchase, and which met the legal requirements for advising = customers of policies, then provide me a date on which you will be = delivering my 5 avatars, as ordered and agreed to. OR provide me a copy = of me making a statement to you that says if i do not get a refund i do = not want you to send me any avatars (which you lied in your newsgroup = post and said i had stated). and of course, i'll be happy to provide = you copies of my tgrams and emails that clearly state that i will accept = only a refund of $160 or all 5 avatars as ordered and agreed to, which = is actually what i did state. Kerstin Gens ambivalent [View Quote] 2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is that = the disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she = "Canceled" her avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to = her. This cancellation was well beyond the 30 day time window and a = large amount of work was already performed on the order which she = approved of. =20 3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when irrational = hysteria is the basis of the request.=20 Enough said already...=20 Hoping that people will find some peace, health & healing ...=20 Tip for the day... go get some sun light...=20 Filmkr & InSaNiTy=20 One and the Same, as it's always been stated throughout history...=20 =20 what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him in advance for 5 = avatars,=20 which he never delivered. he refuses to refund my money, and he = refuses to=20 deliver the avatars. that's more than a 'dishonest factor' -- = that's a=20 crime -- it's called fraud.=20 [View Quote] ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C21DC0.A8CF9D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sorry to be posting so much today, but = i am=20 absolutely livid i simply am not going to sit back and let him = post his=20 lies and insults without response. the truth prevails. right = prevails. goodness prevails. i can not and will not allow = this man=20 to promulgate his lies and abuse without response.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>that man saw a situation in which he = was sitting=20 there with my $160, knowing he had done LITTLE work on my avatars (all = he has=20 done is taken the 4 fairies you see in Mayumi and tack curls on their = hair which=20 he couldn't get on right), he got pissed off because i cancelled my = HOSTING=20 SERVICES, and said to himself 'i'm not going to make those avatars, and = you know=20 what? i'm not going to give her money back either.' why? = because he=20 thinks he is above the law. because he has this concept of = himself, shown=20 many times right here in this NG, that he is somehow bigger and better = than=20 everyone else. special. laws and rules and morals and ethics = apply=20 to everyone else -- but not to him.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>that's it -- i need to finish this = post. =20 sorry. i know it's long. as soon as i'm done being so pissed = off, i=20 promise i won't post so much.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dkersting at optonline.net=20 href=3D"mailto:kersting at optonline.net">Kerstin</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Davatars at heartfall.com=20 href=3D"mailto:avatars at heartfall.com">InSaNiTy's Avatars</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 27, 2002 = 9:23=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Refund</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please provide a copy of your AVATAR = refund=20 policy in effect during the April 15 2002 timeframe, along with an = explanation=20 of how that policy was conveyed to customers at that time. For = example,=20 provide the URL to the page on your website where the avatar refund = policy was=20 posted, a copy of the web page along with means of proof that it was = posted at=20 that time, an email to me advising me of the avatar refund policy, = etc. =20 the only purchasing, delivery, or refund policies or potential = policies i have=20 ever been aware of for avatars are the following as posted on your web = site:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 = href=3D"http://avatars.heartfall.com/">http://avatars.heartfall.com/</A><= /FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><STRONG>Get Your Avatars today! = </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.heartfall.com/aw/avatars/order.html">http://www.heartf= all.com/aw/avatars/order.html</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P>(DELIVERY upon Receipt of Payment)</P></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the only refund policy i have ever = been aware of=20 is your World Hosting Services by Heartfall Productions Sales Policy, = which of=20 course, as one would expect, has absolutely no references whatsoever = to=20 purchases of anything other than hosting services.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <H2>World Hosting Services by Heartfall Productions=20 <P>Sales Policy </H2></P></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 = href=3D"http://worldhosting.heartfall.com/docs/hfsg.html">http://worldhos= ting.heartfall.com/docs/hfsg.html</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you CAN NOT produce an avatar = refund policy in=20 effect at the time of my purchase, and which met the legal = requirements for=20 advising customers of policies, then provide me a date on which = you will=20 be delivering my 5 avatars, as ordered and agreed to. OR provide = me a=20 copy of me making a statement to you that says if i do not get a = refund i do=20 not want you to send me any avatars (which you lied in your newsgroup = post and=20 said i had stated). and of course, i'll be happy to provide you = copies=20 of my tgrams and emails that clearly state that i will accept only a = refund of=20 $160 or all 5 avatars as ordered and agreed to, which is actually what = i did=20 state.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kerstin Gens</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>ambivalent</FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>"filmkr" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:nospam at privacy.com">nospam at privacy.com</A>> wrote in = message=20 <A=20 = href=3D"news:3D1AA23C.DC09D183 at privacy.com">news:3D1AA23C.DC09D183 at privac= y.com</A>...</DIV>Simply=20 because there are several who continue to try and terrorize others and = post=20 lies here to attempt many harm, I will post the facts below.=20 <P>1. Never refused a refund ever. There are users who have received = refunds=20 from us within the 30 days. This disgruntle party here was never = refused a=20 refund. They were simply pointed to the 30 day refund policy.=20 <P>2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is = that the=20 disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she = "Canceled" her=20 avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to her. This = cancellation=20 was well beyond the 30 day time window and a large amount of work was = already=20 performed on the order which she approved of. =20 <P>3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when = irrational=20 hysteria is the basis of the request.=20 <P>Enough said already...=20 <P>Hoping that people will find some peace, health & healing ...=20 <BR><B>Tip for the day... go get some sun light...</B><B></B>=20 <P><B>Filmkr & InSaNiTy</B> <BR><B>One and the Same, as it's = always been=20 stated throughout history...</B> <BR><B></B> =20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i = paid him=20 in advance for 5 avatars, <BR>which he never delivered. he = refuses to=20 refund my money, and he refuses to <BR>deliver the avatars. = that's=20 more than a 'dishonest factor' -- that's a <BR>crime -- it's called = fraud.=20 [View Quote] ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C21DC0.A8CF9D20-- ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 12:27pm
if he did 'a large amount of work' on the avatars, then why did he tell me
he hadn't? that he was too busy? awfully odd to do a 'large amount of work' but instead tell the customer you had only tried to tack existing curls on one existing avatar, and had never done anything on the other avatar. young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 5:51pm
Insanity told me he said it would take 6 or so weeks to finish the avatars, if which is true,
and you sent your money in advance after you ordered and after 30 days, regardless of how long it took to make them, if it was after 30 days, and you cancelled, you can't really expect a refund and he told me he was almost finished them. - YP [View Quote] [View Quote] young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 6:02pm
What the hell are you talking about? It was after 30 days, Insanity was almost finished them. If
Insanity had given a refund he himself would have lost time and money. Insanity said he would finished them regardless if she cancelled. Regardless of your consumer guidebook crap, there are laws protecting business's too, a judge would look at this and be on Insanity's side. Most business's doing custom products require you send in money before work starts. - YP [View Quote] [View Quote] young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 6:09pm
Insanity told me he would finish them regardless if she cancelled, so maybe he just might.
- YP [View Quote] ok I'm done pondering....hehehhehe just a thought here..... Filmkr....If you are not returning the moneys cause you've put too much time into the avatars....then why not just give them to her since they must be almost complete? it makes no sense to say "I've put too much time into them to refund her money", then have nothing to show for your time. This just stikes me as questionable. Leo :) aka BinaryBud [View Quote] what i demanded a refund of is the $160 i paid him in advance for 5 avatars, which he never delivered. he refuses to refund my money, and he refuses to deliver the avatars. that's more than a 'dishonest factor' -- that's a crime -- it's called fraud. [View Quote] young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 6:11pm
Regardless of the existence of a contract for the avatars, you cancelled when most of the work
was complete, if he had refunded you, his business would have lost money. - YP [View Quote] check the facts before you run your mouth ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 7:43pm
oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh NOW i understand. it's okay for him to defraud
me and steal my money, because if he didn't, then his business would lose money. NOW i get it. thanks for clarifying. gosh. wow. maybe everybody should send him money. (note to self. Nominate: Write in: Most imbecilic post in an active worlds newsgroup: Young Phalpha) [View Quote] goober kingJun 27, 2002, 8:04pm
No need to get your bold text in a know, Insanity. The reason Glitter
hasn't been kicked out is the same reason no one else has ever been kicked out (with a couple exceptions): No one's paying attention! If you want let Tom know what's going on, you need to contact him directly, not post it here in the NGs. He's not going to see it buried way down in a pointless thread! [View Quote] > You might wish to speak to legal council... the posts in here show many > veteran users suggesting to you that you made you opinion known and that > all your continued posts appear to be nothing more than "attacks" > > Myself... I clearly see your attacks and your attempts to mislead readers. > > Facts: > > 1.No one was ever defrauded. > 2.You do not know me and have never met me. > 3. You post hateful, slanderous, misleading information in the form of > libel for the sole purpose of defaming and damaging a person and a > legitimate, legal company's business and interrupt in business relations. > 4. Your allegations are 100% false and baseless... your sources are > gossip and hearsay. > > Formerly requesting that you cease this deliberate attack and defamation > immediately. > > I am Formerly requesting that Active Worlds stand up to it's posted > policy by Tom Forney as official AW spokesperson, that users like > yourself be banned from posting personal attacks. > > What happened Tom? Why is Active Worlds not following it's posted > policy here? Why is Active Worlds supporting this hate bashing spree > which has now plagued another AW newsgroup? AW has banned others but > sadly this time is showing discrimination and bias to allow hate crimes > to be committed. > > > > [View Quote] -- Goober King If only they *would* pay attention... rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 8:38pm
no, I mean if he refunded you after most of the work was finished, his choice was to put it up
for public sale or free, but since it was custom he may not want to do that. If he refunded you, one could say you took his time just as easily. Nothing you can say would justify him needing to refund you. - YP [View Quote] (note to self. Nominate: Write in: Most imbecilic post in an active worlds newsgroup: Young Phalpha) [View Quote] young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 8:40pm
Btw, how is my post imbecilic? It appears to be a perfect example of the use of human logic. If
you do wish to nominate me, be sure to use the Cy Awards nomination form, but you might want to change imbecilic to logical. :) - YP [View Quote] (note to self. Nominate: Write in: Most imbecilic post in an active worlds newsgroup: Young Phalpha) [View Quote] johnny bJun 27, 2002, 8:43pm
YP..... what you're missing here is the fact that the 30 day refund policy begins ON the date of
delivery...... period.... thats the way it WORKS..... No Av's sent..... I.E. no delivery.... plain and simple, as the facts stand and the law recognizes, this IS fraud..... filmkrJun 27, 2002, 8:45pm
Goober, in theory you are correct. I even agree with you in majority to your
comments. However... Several people including myself have written to abuse at activeworlds.com have written Tom directly... and have even phoned Tom at AW. Each response has been another excuse which directly conflicts with Tom's posted AW policy prohibiting personal attacks and HATE posts. The bold was used as emphasis to the fact that the serious question is out there... This has been going on now for many weeks and it has traveled over several news groups. It is a shame such trash is allowed and that AW is ignoring following their own policies of banning users for personal attacks. Foul language, even a personal attack of my parents was made and is public record... I simply would like to see AW keep to their policies and NOT discriminate against myself by allowing hate crimes to be committed against myself or any other user here. [View Quote] > No need to get your bold text in a know, Insanity. The reason Glitter > hasn't been kicked out is the same reason no one else has ever been > kicked out (with a couple exceptions): No one's paying attention! If you > want let Tom know what's going on, you need to contact him directly, not > post it here in the NGs. He's not going to see it buried way down in a > pointless thread! > [View Quote] johnny bJun 27, 2002, 9:06pm
YP, that may seem sad, but thats the LAW my friend.... you dont deliver and keep the payment, you
BREAK that law.... Think of it like this...... If I was hired to install a computer network for a customer, Took payment from them, then never came back on the day I promised to. They called for months, wondering when I was going to do the installation. finally they informed me that they were cancelling the contract and wanted their money refunded. I call back and say NOPE.... I'm keeping your money, because it's past 30 days ( or whatever ) And I was almost ready to come do the job, I've purchased all the materials, done all the necessary planning and hardware research, etc. etc. . is this NOT fraud ? They never took possession of, or recieved said services or goods. Therefore I AM guilty of fraud... HAD I actually come and began the installation, and they DID recieve services or goods, then things change.. thats where litigation or arbitration comes into play..... you can't say it's not right just because you think that's unfair of the customer or because my business is going to lose money.... It's very simple... I am in business, If I DO this, my rear is going to end up in court...... the reasons some people DON'T pursue legal recourse to being defrauded are generally due to their ignorance of the consumer protection laws, the small amount of money lost, or the exorbitant legal fees amassed during such litigation....... this is where dishonest "providers" many times, get away with such crimes....... just because you dont like it, or think it's not nice, really, honestly doesn't mean a thing..... the law is the law...... that's just the way it is JB [View Quote] filmkrJun 27, 2002, 9:07pm
Hi Binary,
Your question is reasonable... However the answer is complex and it is truly not appropriate to post here. However, two of the important facts are: 1. Never refused a refund. 2. Never refused delivery of avatars. As for more facts... the hysterical and libelous comments from the disgruntle person are so far from the truth. Further facts are that the person has seen the avatars she had ordered and approved of their texturing and added features with exception of one avatar . She claims nothing was ever done. Another fact is that the person sends such vulgar e-mails, no one would care to read the trash. In other newsgroups she has claimed so many other excuses and if I recall, stated she would never even accept them if sent to her. So you see... we are on top of this as best we can be here... We would hope she would let a judge hear this... that would allow us a counter suit for all the slander and libel as well as the intentional interference with business relations of our customers among other things. We also hope that the BBB would become involved so that we could reply to them and that they could then explain the facts of life to the person. As it is now, the person has violated licensing rights by sharing the avatars with other worlds. Therefore we are owed licensing fees for those avatars she distributed unlawfully. So there ia always a bigger picture... the full picture is so simple... she order many items... she received the majority of her order, in the process she "freaked" out over a five minute ejection and then took continual bad advice from people who are not worthy of clear unbiased thoughts. She has not been rational ever since. Therefore we cannot do anything at this point until a rational third party becomes "legally" involved. That is something I can only hope happens soon. Peace, health & healing to all... InSaNiTy & Filmkr [View Quote] > ok I'm done pondering....hehehhehe just a thought here..... > Filmkr....If you are not returning the moneys cause you've put too much time > into the avatars....then why not just give them to her since they must be > almost complete? it makes no sense to say "I've put too much time into > them to refund her money", then have nothing to show for your time. This > just stikes me as questionable. > > Leo :) aka BinaryBud [View Quote] ambivalentJun 27, 2002, 9:08pm
thank you so much, YP for straightening me out. if you hadn't, i might have
gone the rest of my life actually thinking that when i buy and pay for something i should get it! lmao. i can see why insanity wants you for a friend. lmao. how much has he bilked you out of? convinced you that you had to pay him, without giving you any goods, or 'his business would lose money'? or 'take his time'? ROFLMAO. i bet you're his favorite customer. oh my god my stomach hurts from laughing. thanks, YP. i needed that. [View Quote] johnny bJun 27, 2002, 9:16pm
----- Original Message -----
From: filmkr Newsgroups: general.discussion Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 1:45 AM Subject: Fact vs Fiction Simply because there are several who continue to try and terrorize others and post lies here to attempt many harm, I will post the facts below. 1. Never refused a refund ever. There are users who have received refunds from us within the 30 days. This disgruntle party here was never refused a refund. They were simply pointed to the 30 day refund policy. Can YOU PROVE that claim ?? certainly you don't expect us to just take your WORD for it.... 2. No one here ever refused to deliver any avatars. The fact is that the disgruntle party sent an e-mail and a telegram stating that she "Canceled" her avatar request and stated she did not want them sent to her. This cancellation was well beyond the 30 day time window and a large amount of work was already performed on the order which she approved of. Again...... PROOF ?? 3. We are not obligated to ever refund anyone's money when irrational hysteria is the basis of the request. Hmm..... I suppose you're a qualified mental health professional TOO now ?? qualified, licensed, and legally recognized to MAKE such a diagnosis ?? Irrational hysteria..... Hmm....... interesting legal precedent there......... Enough said already... Hoping that people will find some peace, health & healing ... Tip for the day... go get some sun light... Filmkr & InSaNiTy One and the Same, as it's always been stated throughout history... Now THAT'S the biggest crock I've seen you print in here YET ! Rest assured, nobody here has forgotten (though YOU apparently have) your "interesting" habit of pretending to be someone else and speaking of yourself in the third person...... NOT a clear cut attempt to confuse and befuddle ?, Hmmm.... You're truly a piece of work.... johnny bJun 27, 2002, 9:21pm
Looking at the grammatical content and patterns IN those posts, I'll say I personally do NOT believe
this to be TWO diffferent persons, Bud........ They're just TOO similar to take seriously....... johnny bJun 27, 2002, 9:28pm
Well, actually, they DO Bud..... I WORKED in a hospital for three years..... and unless the patient
was in for psychiatric treatment, they WILL tell you if the person is there...... They'll even tell you if that person passed away ...... I know for a fact, NOT speculating here....... they have NO way of knowing who calls, or why.... what if you wanted to send flowers ? You may choose to disbelieve, that's your right and priviledge, but I'm saying it's true.... from experience....... JB johnny bJun 27, 2002, 9:31pm
YP, there IS no 30 day contract for AVATARS.... clearly stated on the site..... delivery apon
receipt of payment...... And just because YOU believe something to to be the way YOU see it, does not make it a fact either..... you need to realize that it's your OPINION, and nothing more JB [View Quote] young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 9:47pm
Laws vary state to state, and I doubt you'd find anything as to direct as to make Insanity
fraudulent, a judge would look at this, see that the client cancelled when work was almost finished and expected a refund, the judge would be in favor of Insanity. There is nothing I am missing :) If you do find laws, it might apply to stuff that is already made, not custom made. - YP [View Quote] No Av's sent..... I.E. no delivery.... plain and simple, as the facts stand and the law recognizes, this IS fraud..... young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 9:53pm
Actually I haven't paid him a penny. I am just looking at the facts and anyone else who would
look at the facts would realize he doesn't owe you a penny, if he owes you anything its only the avatars, but you seem to not want them, that is not his fault. I don't buy products from him. If a business had done fraudulent practices towards me, I would make a complaint to the BBE or other legal possibilities, not have everyone believe my hearsay. I'm glad it's amused you :) - YP [View Quote] lmao. i can see why insanity wants you for a friend. lmao. how much has he bilked you out of? convinced you that you had to pay him, without giving you any goods, or 'his business would lose money'? or 'take his time'? ROFLMAO. i bet you're his favorite customer. oh my god my stomach hurts from laughing. thanks, YP. i needed that. [View Quote] young phalphaJun 27, 2002, 9:58pm
Your example is quite wrong buddy :) Your example compares service to custom made product. He
had the product almost finished, your service was never done, so you keeping the money is fraud. Him keeping the money is not fraud, only thing Insanity owes ambivalent is her avatars which he spent time on, but, she does not want it. If she requests them in a few months, but does not deliver, he might then be guilty of fraud. - YP [View Quote] Think of it like this...... If I was hired to install a computer network for a customer, Took payment from them, then never came back on the day I promised to. They called for months, wondering when I was going to do the installation. finally they informed me that they were cancelling the contract and wanted their money refunded. I call back and say NOPE.... I'm keeping your money, because it's past 30 days ( or whatever ) And I was almost ready to come do the job, I've purchased all the materials, done all the necessary planning and hardware research, etc. etc. . is this NOT fraud ? They never took possession of, or recieved said services or goods. Therefore I AM guilty of fraud... HAD I actually come and began the installation, and they DID recieve services or goods, then things change.. thats where litigation or arbitration comes into play..... you can't say it's not right just because you think that's unfair of the customer or because my business is going to lose money.... It's very simple... I am in business, If I DO this, my rear is going to end up in court...... the reasons some people DON'T pursue legal recourse to being defrauded are generally due to their ignorance of the consumer protection laws, the small amount of money lost, or the exorbitant legal fees amassed during such litigation....... this is where dishonest "providers" many times, get away with such crimes....... just because you dont like it, or think it's not nice, really, honestly doesn't mean a thing..... the law is the law...... that's just the way it is JB [View Quote] |
