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Jul 4, 2003, 4:01am

I hate posting here. Why? Because a few folks think that they are AW and
understand it totally. I joined AW in 1997 and owned a world, Nova, which I
just let expire. It was a hard decision to make, but $840 a year was a
little more than I wanted to spend to allow people to build. When AW went to
the tourist thing, I saw the numbers dropping. I no longer wanted a part of
it. I still own 3 worlds but they are much smaller. Will I renew them? It
depends.

The owners of AW have become weird lately. They refuse to allow tourists to
visit various worlds to make a decision if they want to spend the money to
join. Folks like me are dropping like flies. I have had several of my
friends on AW call me in the real world because they are concerned I do not
come into AW anymore. I am fine and am writing my book. AW seems to be
sucking a lot lately.

Will I renew my worlds? I doubt it. I will renew my friend's world, as she
is into it. She cannot renew it on her budget. I will do that for her and
complete my build there. My worlds are dead.

So, kill me now. I've said some really bad things. I have said AW will NOT
survive. It will not be here a year from now. Trust me on this. I am moving
on...

Wings0nite

Jul 4, 2003, 7:21am

I agree on the tourist thing. Allowing tourists in worlds like AW is a good
way of letting them decide whether to join or not. If I hadn't been to AW
as a tourist, then I would have never encountered the person to teach me how
to build. Also, if I was a tourist in AW now, I wouldn't join, because I
would not want to take the gamble of "maybe I won't like AW" Sure there are
other public worlds that tourists can visit, but not that many, and none of
them give a great example of the active worlds universe the way AW does.

Jul 4, 2003, 12:00pm

Wings0nite is yet another in a long list of gifted builders and world owners who have become discouraged with AWI's policy of "no tourists" unless the world owner pays extra to allow them in.

There's no telling how many new users have registered over the years because Wings allowed tourists to build freely on her Nova world. Or even just because they ran across a nice lady who spent time talking to them and encouraging them. I'm sure that's true of many other world owners who have welcomed tourists into their worlds in the past.

World prices are high enough without tacking on a "tax" of $60 more if the world owner wants to allow tourists in.

Worlds - both privately owned and AWI public worlds - are just about the only advertisement AWI has going for it right now. World owners should not be charged extra to help tourists (potential customers) see as much of *that* little bit of advertisement as possible.

Tourist access to worlds (where world-owners want them) used to be a big part of what kept Active Worlds *active*... in so many ways.

My suggestion:
AWI should allow tourists to freely visit all AWI owned public worlds.
AWI should allow tourists to freely visit all privately owned worlds if the owner enables them to enter.
AWI should give a pro-rated credit on world renewals, to all world owners who are currently paying an additional $60 for tourist accessibility.

Lara

[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2003, 12:13pm

i agree :) not like they were making much from those world owners anyway :)
dont think many people enabled tourist entry :)

-SWE

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Jul 4, 2003, 1:30pm

i agree 100 %

Jul 4, 2003, 2:09pm

Thanks for all you have done Wings, I know when I first came into aw and
built my first build in America, then see it decimated when Gineric's
objects disappeared for whatever reason I build in Nova second. I enjoyed my
time in there and promoted me to buy my own world.

You are like the many unheard of hero's of activeworlds, those that don't go
out looking for fame or making themselves a name, or trying to be better
then everyone else. Like you these where the heart of AW, those that give
there time and money to support something that they loved to do.

Whatever course your life now takes you, I bid you good wishes and ever
success in whatever path you take.


[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2003, 2:28pm

I'll second that Wizard


LF

Jul 4, 2003, 2:40pm

i agree all of you at 100% because:
i remember the time i was just a tourist. It was like i was a kid who's
discovering the world for the first time!
i want to say that without all the nice people that i crossed during that
time...and all the beautiful of AW...maybe today i would not be a citizen.

In short....i dont know how AW is able to convince tourist to become citizen
today.
1- there's not much people as in time
2- there's no place for them to go
3- the prizes are too expensif for a tourist to say: Wow... this is not
expensif as much.... i'll try aw as fast that i can!
4- i find aw boring at time since the prizes goes up...so imagine them!

Spectrum65 - PS : sorry for my bad
english





"lara" <Lara at tnlc.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:3F05870D.86113C6C at tnlc.com...
> Wings0nite is yet another in a long list of gifted builders and world
owners who have become discouraged with AWI's policy of "no tourists" unless
the world owner pays extra to allow them in.
>
> There's no telling how many new users have registered over the years
because Wings allowed tourists to build freely on her Nova world. Or even
just because they ran across a nice lady who spent time talking to them and
encouraging them. I'm sure that's true of many other world owners who have
welcomed tourists into their worlds in the past.
>
> World prices are high enough without tacking on a "tax" of $60 more if the
world owner wants to allow tourists in.
>
> Worlds - both privately owned and AWI public worlds - are just about the
only advertisement AWI has going for it right now. World owners should not
be charged extra to help tourists (potential customers) see as much of
*that* little bit of advertisement as possible.
>
> Tourist access to worlds (where world-owners want them) used to be a big
part of what kept Active Worlds *active*... in so many ways.
>
> My suggestion:
> AWI should allow tourists to freely visit all AWI owned public worlds.
> AWI should allow tourists to freely visit all privately owned worlds if
the owner enables them to enter.
> AWI should give a pro-rated credit on world renewals, to all world owners
who are currently paying an additional $60 for tourist accessibility.
>
> Lara
>
[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2003, 3:41pm

They should 100% let tourists into AW.

I think their view is that alphaworld is so big, tourists can find a spot
to build without feat of being deleted. This puts them in a sitution where
other than a contact list and more avatar selection, there's no reason for
them to join as they are happy as a clam builing in alpha world.

This would probably be too complex, but perhaps something where tourists
can function just as citizens in alpha world, but perhaps their builds only
last a week or so, after that they decay. This would let them try out
building, but would make them need to put in their fair share if they want
their builds to last.

That, or AWI needs to set up some sort of tourist world, where tourists
can build and experiance what aw really has to offer. There would be
trained GK type people that would help teach and guide new people, and give
them a reason to become a citizen. I'm sure there are many citizens in AW
that would jump at the chance of running and staffing such a world.

I'm so sick of seeing tourists at awgate asking what they can do here and
such, and at most getting a GK recycling some copied and pasted blurb on aw.
Currently they make AW out to be some 3d chat program that maybe you can
make your own environments but not sure.

[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2003, 4:55pm

I strongly agree.

-Weizer

"spectrum 65" <ska__ at hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3f05aded$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> i agree all of you at 100% because:
> i remember the time i was just a tourist. It was like i was a kid who's
> discovering the world for the first time!
> i want to say that without all the nice people that i crossed during that
> time...and all the beautiful of AW...maybe today i would not be a citizen.
>
> In short....i dont know how AW is able to convince tourist to become
citizen
> today.
> 1- there's not much people as in time
> 2- there's no place for them to go
> 3- the prizes are too expensif for a tourist to say: Wow... this is not
> expensif as much.... i'll try aw as fast that i can!
> 4- i find aw boring at time since the prizes goes up...so imagine them!
>
> Spectrum65 - PS : sorry for my bad
> english
>
>
>
>
>
> "lara" <Lara at tnlc.com> a écrit dans le message de
> news:3F05870D.86113C6C at tnlc.com...
> owners who have become discouraged with AWI's policy of "no tourists"
unless
> the world owner pays extra to allow them in.
> because Wings allowed tourists to build freely on her Nova world. Or even
> just because they ran across a nice lady who spent time talking to them
and
> encouraging them. I'm sure that's true of many other world owners who
have
> welcomed tourists into their worlds in the past.
the
> world owner wants to allow tourists in.
> only advertisement AWI has going for it right now. World owners should
not
> be charged extra to help tourists (potential customers) see as much of
> *that* little bit of advertisement as possible.
> part of what kept Active Worlds *active*... in so many ways.
> the owner enables them to enter.
owners
> who are currently paying an additional $60 for tourist accessibility.
and
> which I
> went to
part
> of
> It
tourists
> to
money
> to
do
> not
> she
> and
> NOT
> moving
>
>

Jul 4, 2003, 4:55pm

I agree 100% as well. Wings you have done a lot in AW and you are
appreciated greatly for it all. Good luck in your future!!! :)


[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2003, 5:42pm

Enthusiasm of many people got lost when AW excluded tourists,
I can understand your decision. AW has never been like it was
before after that, even if tourists are allowed back now.

But still I would miss my friends, several of them are still
there. Maybe you should consider to have just a meeting place,
a P5 with tourist access.

Labirint is tourist enabled and some former citizens still
pop in now and then as tourists ...


CU, wings0nite or "wings0nite" :)

Volker

Jul 4, 2003, 6:22pm

It is unfortunate that a great person on AW like wings is leaving. I can
understand that though. Ever since general world access for tourists was
disabled in early 2002, the whole enthusiasm to join active worlds just
about disappeared. I suggest lowering the yearly price to something like
$60 or $55, then allowing tourists in all worlds, unless the world owner
disables tourist access. Many tourist worlds have just about disappeared
because of that extra "tax" that world owners now have to pay if they want
to help potential customers. Allowing tourists in AW was a great idea
anyway, despite how long tourist builds can last in AlphaWorld, most still
wanted to join and become a part of the AW community, all because of the
great experience they got from AlphaWorld.

Jul 4, 2003, 7:57pm

Sad to see you go Wings, you and I have had many good chats and I will miss
you. I agree with you 100% also.
There are still some of us here continuing your crusade with our worlds,
BluPearl, Broadway, A!!CT, The Beans and a few other great worlds are still
here to carry your torch into the future, some allow public build for
tourists in place of AW World and some are great entertainment to the new
comers to AW (The tourists) Hats off to you and all the other great people
who have helped make AW a better place and thanks for showing you care. :)
All my best to you and yours......
MrBruce
[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2003, 8:57pm

again...i agree all of those who bring the "alphaworld" point....i passed a
lot of time in alphaworld....it's where i realy learn to built because aw is
free and you can build everywhere, and when you want

i remember having build a city in alphaworld whit other citizen and
tourist...it was not very well built but i passed a great time at this
place.

I guess i'm not the only one to have done this kind of thing in AW ... all
of you were tourist in the time and you all start in this world that was
also the only one "for the olders one" ....and i find sad to see that the
new one can't have the opportunity to see this beautifull world

i think that they already have a lots of restriction and they dont need this
one


my point is that if activeworlds stop to restrict tourist in all the
worlds....i think that they would be more people on AW and the atmosphere of
activeworlds would be better

Spectrum65

Jul 5, 2003, 3:36am

Thanks to all of you for the response! I will remain a citizen of AW until
it flows into the toilet of active chat. I probably will not renew my worlds
though, unless AW can show me that they mean to survive. So far, I don't see
that. All I see is a mismanaged group of people. They seem to be clueless as
to how to market this wonderful product. If I were them, I would be taking
some lessons from AOL. Every Circuit City would have an AW cd free at their
check out. Well, that is what I would do, but I am not them.

Wings0nite

Jul 5, 2003, 5:05am

The first thing would be to make it easier for tourists to experience AW.
It is obvious that by putting so many restrictions on tourist access to the
universe, the customers go down.
1. because the tourists can't experience AW first hand
2. because a lot of citizens in AW lost friends because of the price hikes,
and because they couldn't come back as tourists, the citizens who didn't
expire decided to leave too.
I can't tell you how many people have given me telegrams saying "I am
leaving AW, All my friends are gone because AW is too expensive" A lot of
those people who sent the telegrams probably would have been less inclined
to leave if they had still been able to easily contact their friends as
tourists. Yes, there is AWteen, but that does not give the experience that
AW gives.

Jul 5, 2003, 6:44am

Hi everyone:

[View Quote] They (AWI) already KNOW that THE BEST way to promote AW *WITHOUT* giving
away incentives to become a cit is to let tourists back on AW but DO NOT
give 'em any building rights (and send a spider through AW deleting what few
<Tourist> objects that still remain). Problem is AWI won't do it. :-(

Either that or they're TOO CHICKEN to do it.

> This would probably be too complex, but perhaps something where tourists
> can function just as citizens in alpha world, but perhaps their builds
only
> last a week or so, after that they decay. This would let them try out
> building, but would make them need to put in their fair share if they want
> their builds to last.

You know this won't hold water because a cit can just come right along and
delete it and there's NOT A DAMN THING THE TOURIST CAN DO ABOUT IT.

> That, or AWI needs to set up some sort of tourist world, where tourists
> can build and experiance what aw really has to offer. There would be
> trained GK type people that would help teach and guide new people, and
give
> them a reason to become a citizen. I'm sure there are many citizens in AW
> that would jump at the chance of running and staffing such a world.

There ALREADY IS such a place. It's called the AW School.

> I'm so sick of seeing tourists at awgate asking what they can do here and
> such, and at most getting a GK recycling some copied and pasted blurb on
aw.
> Currently they make AW out to be some 3d chat program that maybe you can
> make your own environments but not sure.

I wish they wouldn't do that either, but until Enzo & Co. see the light (not
to mention the $$$ POTENTIAL) of letting tourists back onto AW, but NOT
giving them building rights(especially since its fast becoming as antiquated
as the Model T compared to worlds like Today's AWWTeen and New AW), I'm
afraid we're gonna keep seeing the same drivel from GKs at the Gate over and
over again. :-(

Cheers for now :-)

PC Hamster
Mayor - City Of Hamsterville
pchamster at comcast.net
Denver, Colorado (my REAL city :-))



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Jul 5, 2003, 6:52am

Hi everyone:

[View Quote] Yet ANOTHER reason why AWGate IS NOT - REPEAT - IS NOT - the world which AWI
should be showing off to potential investors and in other public appearances
they make. I can understand that AWI wants to show off their latest
technology. But AT LEAST go so far as to make AWTeen the "showcase" world
as IT is a public building world WITH THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY!!!

Just my opinion...

PC Hamster


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Jul 5, 2003, 7:26am

.....wasnt the original Nova owned by Ariel?

F.


[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2003, 8:45am

Not that I know, I remember back to 97/98 and it was WingOnite that own it
then.

Tengel

[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2003, 10:44am

As long as Circuit City doesn't "accidently" charge their customers for an
aol account....lol

I play games at www.pogo.com and they have had UO, Sims, etc as a banner on
thier games pages. It seems that would be a good form of advertising. On
occassion I ask in the rooms if anyone actually clicks on those banners and
have gotten a positive response from many.
I wonder what the cost is to run a banner for say a month in a site like
that?

Jul 5, 2003, 11:46am

For a 468x60 banner on an "medium" internet portail, it's about 5 000 € for
100 000 pages viewed.
Out of statistics appears that about 0.5% (max) actually click on the
banner.

For a newspaper, black & white, which has an edition of 450 000, here are
the costs :

1/2 of a page : 28 500
1/3 of a page : 24 500
1/4 of a page : 14 000
1/8 of a page : 8 000

All those prices are without taxes, meaning that you need to add 19.60%
TVA.

First, middle and last pages are of course even more expensive.

Examples for here, in France, I don't know if it's the same in the USA.

(I took only two examples, prices can of course be a slightly different
according to the editors)


"alphabit phalpha" <alphabitphalpha at activeworlds.com> a écrit
news:3f06c814$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> I wonder what the cost is to run a banner for say a month in a site
> like that?

Jul 5, 2003, 12:28pm

Yeah me too. The only reason I ever became a cit was because I explored all
the worlds and ended up liking them a lot. If I was a tourist now, I would
never become a cit.

Ok this is all assumptions and stuff, but here goes:
I own a p-20 5 user world. I'm not an adult and don't have any kind of job
(besides tutoring), and my parents don't spoil me so the chances of me
getting any large amount of money from them is very small. I personally
don't want to pay for a world if I have to scrounge money to keep it up. I
own a p-20 5 user, which I pay $40 a year for. As I said before, I don't
want to have to use a large amount of effort to keep my world up. Why would
I pay $100 a year for a p-20 5 user world with tourist access when I can pay
$90 a year for a p-30 5 user or p-20 10 user, have more possibilities for my
world, and have to use LESS effort to keep my world up? What's tourist
access when you have a 5 user limit anyway? If tourist access was cheaper,
then owners of small worlds (like me) might actually pay for it. It would
also be more profitable for AW. Lets say, 400-500 world owners (there are
generally 1100 active worlds) payed $30 for tourist access ($12,000-$15,000)
instead of 110 world owners paying $60 for tourist access ($6,600) AW would
make twice as much money off of tourist access. Not that you can be sure
400-500 world owners would buy the $30 tourist access. They could break even
(220 world owners paying). Even if it was only $20 (and they had 400-500
people registering) they would still make $8,000-$10,000, which is more than
$6,600. Not to mention the extra income brought in by more tourists becoming
citizens (more worlds to experience, more bad experiences in build deletion
etc., more appeal because of nice worlds open to tourists, etc.). Pretty
much any way it would happen, AW would not only make more money, but the
universe would be more appealing, more enjoyable, cheaper to use, and more.

AW won't last unless they make more money somehow. This is probably very,
very far off, but here is what their income could be. Lets say there are
only 300 cits. Thats $24,000 a year. Then $6,600 from tourist access. Thats
$30,600 a year. Then the income from worlds, $81,930 (assuming 500 worlds
are p-10 5 user, 100 are p-20 5 user, 10 are p-80 10 user, 50 are p-50 30
user, 3 are p-100 100 user, 100 are p-20 10 user, 200 are p-10 10 user, 100
p-30 5 user, 37 are p-30 10 user, and there are 1000 worlds total (and there
are definately many more)). That's $112,530 a year. Not to mention little
cit upgrades (bot limits) and other ways they make money (bingo bot renting,
etc.). Assuming there are 50 legal universes, and the average price is
$34,375, AW gets $1,718,750 from universes. That's $1,831,280. Then lets
assume there are 20 legal galaxys that cost on average $5,800. That's an
additional $116,000, making the yearly income $1,947,280. Assuming they host
200 worlds ($200 each), 5 galaxys ($400 each), and 15 universes ($900 each)
they make $55,500 off of hosting. That's $2,002,780. Asumming they host 200
FTP places at an average price of $509, they make $101,800 off of that. That
brings the total to $2,104,580. Advertising is $500 a month, assuming they
have 10 people advertising the entire year, they make $60,000 off of that,
bringing the total to $2,164,580. I could go on a long time, but lets end it
here. That's probably a horrible understatement or overstatement, but oh
well. If their employees cost them $1,600,000 and they have $200,000 in
other costs and... well you get the picture of my random estimation.
[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2003, 1:00pm

thats how i see it :)

Jul 5, 2003, 1:34pm

lol, i only became a cit because i thought you couldnt build as a tourist,
so got a cit...works both ways! :) oh, and i never went anywhere outside
awgate, lol.


-SWE

[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 12:22am

For the banner ad...that would mean an additional 50,000 visitors to AW.
Quite a signicant figure I'd say.

Ryan

[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 11:31am

50.000 visitors on the AW website does not mean 50.000 visitors in Active
Worlds. And from the enventuals visitors in the AW universes, a few of them
will actually become paying customers.
Besides, the total number includes spiders, crawlers and so on.
Not easy isnt' it ?
Lol !

"ryan" <awngs.5.ryanjacob at spamgourmet.com> a écrit
news:3f0787cd$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> For the banner ad...that would mean an additional 50,000 visitors to
> AW. Quite a signicant figure I'd say.
>
> Ryan

Jul 11, 2003, 5:14pm

I bought the world NOVA in 1997 from Artifact. He was the first original
owner. He called AW and told them he did not want to renew the world, but I
wanted to. This was after I spoke with him about it. I had spent so much
time on his world building his object yard for him and such that he felt he
owed it to me to offer me the option to keep it going. He was a wonderful
person to work with online. He was kind. AW allowed me to renew it under my
citizenship. Things work rather strangely in the cyberworld of AW. I was
working with Artifact and we were a team and I liked it a lot but suddenly
he had to leave. This was after about eight months of our working together.
I told my husband and he knew how committed I was so we agreed I should buy
it. I had met Artifact while building on Borg world. We met and just
connected. Next thing I knew I was building on Nova. The initial build lead
to other things. He invited me to Nova to build. Before too long, I was a
partner. The partnership led to Artifact selling his world to me.

I don't know Ariel but I guarantee he/she had nothing to do with Nova on
Activeworlds. There is a world called Nova on Dreamland Park. Perhaps that
is the confusion?

Irene aka Wings0nite

[View Quote]

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