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Jul 18, 2001, 6:57pm

Wouldn't it be crazy if Enzo actually posted here once?

Sam Stover
- SW Comit
297649

Jul 18, 2001, 6:59pm

Yes, but what are your objectives, what are your goals, what are you going to conceive to
improve AW, are you going to implement programs, programming, design, applications, are
you going to find a new way to build or maybe a different approach to the 3D or are you
just concerned in already built areas and collaborative virtual environments, you want AW
to be a toy, the internet game, a fun chat, a free software...what in particular would
you like to do...I don't understand...
icey
[View Quote] > An olive branch, for all intents and purposes. The time for bashing and name-calling
> is over. Now is a time of communication and action. I'm willing to work together with
> these people to help make AW a better place, as are the people who've signed this
> letter. Are you?
>
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2001, 7:04pm

Why are you so pessimist? Why should we build solid borders around the '3D'? Are you sure that exploring new ways will impair the 'toy machine', I think I am sure of the contrary...
icey

[View Quote] > Unfortunately AW as product isn't that useful for any real practical purposes other than "art". That's the problem: Rick and JP are SCRAMBLING to find a purpose for AW, which is why they have failed at numerous attempts (e-commerce, distance education, virtual surgery--oh boy that one's a joke, etc, etc) yet they continue to miss the only REAL purpose AW could have: gaming/entertainment. Note that this does NOT necessarily mean just SHOOTING, as some still simple/narrow-minded people are disillusioned into believing. One look at the 3D computer game industry should be enough to show Rick and JP that gaming is the way to go. Unfortunately, for AW to even BEGIN to compete in that market it needs MANY more improvements (of which most are listed at http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/improve.html).
>
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2001, 7:28pm

That's just it, icey. It doesn't matter what I want AW to be, or what plans I have
for AW. What this is all about is the fact that AWCI isn't *listening* to our ideas
or suggestions, regardless of what they are. Even if it's something as simple as
restoring the old low-res textures, they will completely ignore us and go about their
own ways. *That* is what I'm trying to change with this letter. I'm hoping to open
the channels of communication so that in the future, when the general public *does*
have something they'd like to see changed or implemented, they will know that their
ideas are at least being considered. But until that happens, you can make all the
petitions you want and piss and moan all you want, and it won't make a lick of
difference.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Solve the main problem, and all other solutions will follow...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 18, 2001, 7:29pm

*poke* That mean yer gonna sign the letter or what? Figured you'd be one of the first
people on this thing...

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Be a team player!
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 18, 2001, 7:33pm

I sure picked a helluva time to try to leave. Anyway, got two sigs to add.

Anthony M. Bathgate
"Wing" (#305004)
"Left Wing" (#337503)


Jessica K. Cabello
"Oo0do::uSiOn0oO" (#305003)

Jul 18, 2001, 7:37pm

Poseidon, 293157

James R.

Citizen, builder, supporter of 3 years.

Jul 18, 2001, 8:01pm

No because I doubt it will do any good...Rick and JP couldn't give a shit=
about us anyway--we're not the one buying uniservers and hiring AWC to c=
reate content. Perhaps when 500 citizens ( at $20) and/or enough world owne=
rs can come together than I'll be more interested, because that's what it=
's going to take before Rick and JP notice...

I don't pay for my citizenship anyway so it would add little weight to th=
e petition since I am prepared to leave AW at ANY time.

Another thing AWC could do (which I've suggestion before but obviously wa=
sn't grasped by anyone from then-AWCI) was subtle advertising. Forget the=
in-your-face billboards and invisible bump objects. Simply create object=
s based on real-world products and let people build with them. How many p=
eople wouldn't want to build with licensed McDonald's named/textured obje=
cts like the Big Mac, Happy Meal, and even build a McDonald's itself? Thi=
nk of the advertising exposure McDonald's would get if it has a virtual M=
cDonald's near AlphaWorld GZ. There are SO many possibilities here. Just =
look what I have in Hole: 7-11 (with various products and "got milk?" sig=
n near the milk, of course), vending machines (Coke and 7-up currently), =
and I've been creating a SLEW of real-world objects that any marketer wou=
ld be foolish not to want to pay to have advertised in a contextual setti=
ng. Hell, even a single 2-liter Coke bottle would be built with a lot and=
I'm sure Coke would pay to have in AW...

But, no, Rick and JP are still too clueless to get it...

[View Quote] > *poke* That mean yer gonna sign the letter or what? Figured you'd be on=
e of the first
> people on this thing...
>
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2001, 8:08pm

[View Quote] Typo there, need proofreading skillz. Or maybe she just needs to stop it with the confusing caps! Second sig should read

Jessica K. Cabello
Oo0dillusion0oO (#305003)
>
>
>
>

Jul 18, 2001, 8:16pm

Whether it does any good or not is irrelevant insofar as signing it. The terms are
pretty simple: If you agree with what was said, sign the letter. If it turns out that
this letter gets ignored like everything else, then what have you lost? Nothing,
except what little respect you had left for them. And if it *does* work, then you can
be one of the many who can say "I helped get AWCI to listen to us." So why not sign
it if you agree with it? It wouldn't kill ya to be a team player every now and then,
Eep. :P

And this goes to all the other people out there in NG land who I know have been
watching all this and refuse to move: If, for whatever reason, you don't like the
idea of posting in the NGs and don't want to reply this way, you can post a reply to
my Stirring the Virtual Melting Pot column at http://www.awnews.com, or you can send
me an email with your name and cit to gooberking at utn.cjb.net, or even send a telegram
to me in AW. No matter how you do it, your name *will* get put on the letter, so
don't hesitate! If you agree with what was said, then let your voice be heard!

[View Quote] --
Goober King
We gotta work together, otherwise it's all for naught.
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 18, 2001, 8:50pm

I agree with Brant's message on awnews.com more than this proposal.

Jul 18, 2001, 11:45pm

[View Quote] Eep, they don't HAVE 500 citizens that give a shit. Been to any of the main GZs lately? All that 99% of the people there could care
less about is where their next cybersex fix is coming from. There are maybe 100 cits that know whats going on, 70 that care, 50 that
will do somthing about it, 20 are regulars here. And AWCI has what? "40,000 active users"? I figure in reality thats around 400
individual, paying sentient human beings, and maybe 150 own worlds. Even fewer own worlds that they actually paid for (I'm willing
to venture that 1 in 4 worlds is NOT a trial or prize world)

Jul 18, 2001, 11:56pm

Robin Florez
~Syli~
CitNum-284030


[View Quote]

Jul 19, 2001, 12:50am

Yea, well, then perhaps that's why Rick and JP don't listen to us anyway...cuz we can't even muster up enough oomph behind our voice than a single corp uniserver purchaser can...so instead we should be going to corps because it's probably the only way we'll ever get things implemented...assuming the corps want it, that is...

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Jul 19, 2001, 2:10am

Alrighty, folks. I'll give this one more day and then, tomorrow night (Thursday)
it'll get shipped out to every AWCI staffer on record. The only thing that could stop
this now is an email from Facter saying "Ok, they read your message at the meeting
and want to work something out." :P

And for the record, we've got 32 signatures so far! Obviously not 500, but it's
definitely a start.

[View Quote] <snip>

--
Goober King
A day of reckoning is at hand...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 19, 2001, 2:45am

BirdMike
CitNum 292200
Mike Nelson

[View Quote]

Jul 19, 2001, 3:16am

And while I'm thinking about it...

For those of you who may be a little reluctant to sign this letter because you
disagree with "certain parts", then please, let me know what parts you think should
be changed, and I'll see what I can do. After all, this should be something that all
can agree on. Of the people, by the people, not just my spew. :P (Just don't forget
to sign it after the change has been confirmed!)

And I'm assuming that those of you who've already signed it are perfectly ok with how
it is now...

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Should be representative of the community view...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 19, 2001, 9:21pm

Well, considering how many people even use the NGs, from what we can see, 32
is pretty good =)


[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 1:09am

Last call, ladies and gentlemen! In one hour, this letter is getting shipped up north
to Massachusetts, so any of you who've been waffling this whole time better sign now!
This train is leaving the station at the stroke of midnight EST!

ALL ABOARD!

P.S. We're up to 36!

[View Quote] --
Goober King
"This is Mr. Conductor talking... I know what I'm talking about!"
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 20, 2001, 1:17am

E. Robert Gonzalez
Methus
Cit# 308912

Jul 20, 2001, 1:23am

"Sailor Mars" (#308887)

Jul 20, 2001, 2:05am

*bong*

And with 38 total signatures, this letter's out the door! Now to sit back, and await
the response...

[View Quote] <snip>

--
Goober King
Assuming there is one...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 20, 2001, 3:09am

there was also a time when they had a low amount of customers, a low amount of requests, and a lot of free time.. people like you
who complain about their lack of community involvement have no sympothy from me.. fullfilling all your requests would slow the
company down, and would not allow them to have enough time for all the work they currently have in progress. People who complain
about this type of thing usually don't understand business or how to run one succesfully. They also do not realize the size and
magnitued of AWC as a company.

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 3:17am

the fact is that AWCI is too large a company to listen to individual requests.. you don't expect microsoft to listen to your every
imput.. nor do you expect symantec, aol, napster, the govornment for that matter.. what makes this any different? The fact that you
are self rightous and believe your oppinion should dominate their ideals.. and that because they used to be involved, they can still
be.. Things change, the company has grown exponentially in the past years. You need to understand that they are evolving, and you
should be too. The day when the company was small enough that you could be personal with it's owners is over. It is simply too
large and too time consuming for AWC to be intimate with every customer, I doubt they even have the time to be especially close with
large corporate customers either. The size and magnitude of AWC is far beyond what first meets the eye. Because the software seems
like a close-knit type of program, they expect it, they do not understand how much work is involved to run such a fast growing
company. I'll admit that it could be more efficient, and could have more time for the community, but it isn't, and the growing
amount of extreme requests by citizens doesn't help speed it up either. What makes this software company so different then others
that you feel they should pay attention to you. You feel neglected by other companies and are taking it out on AWC. What makes
them any different? What makes it that they MUST give the thousands of citizens their complete devotion, while other, even smaller
companies, don't have to, and it goes unqeustioned. My ISP has a terms of service, on the bottom of it they state that they can
change their TOS at any time without notice or reason. Millions of customers acknowledge this, and yet continue to use the service.
You are net getting full attention of the owner of the company, and are outraged? give me a break!

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 3:20am

I believe Rick has made it very clear when I met him that the purpose of AW was to be a medium for future purposes. As far as I can
tell, they have succeeded. There are a number of different uses of the software, in AW Universe alone. They will not gear the
software to any perticular target group, because it is not designed for a particular target group, it's designed to be able to be
altered to fit the needs of each of the groups, and as far as i can tell, it can for most. In AW Universe alone, the type of people
who like to chat have their needs fullfilled, the builders can build, the gamers can play games, the goreans can have gor, It seems
like things are going all right to me.

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 4:22am

[View Quote] I just typed a long, drawn out response but M$ decided to crash on me, so I lost it. Anyway, the general idea can be summed up by:
Magnitude? They're a bumble bee getting sucked into the engine of a 747 on the radar screen of life.

Jul 20, 2001, 11:39am

ur comparing aw,with AOL or Microsoft or Napster??? cant u see the tiny
difrence between them and aw?i mean napster has millions of users,microsofts
OSs are used by almost every computer in the world and made billions of
dollars. AOL is probelly the biggest internet compant in the world,not
including the fact that warner brothers is now part of aol and also made
billions of dollars. and ur compairing it with aw who only have a couple of
thousand users, and hardly made anything compared to those companys! aw is a
small company and thats why they should listen to people if they wanna
become a big one! instead of just doing what they "THINK" people want,or
what only they want. Oh and for ur infomation,when Microsoft make a new OS
they make the things they think there OS needs, and the stuff they get from
feed backs from there users!and aol is a isp,how could u possibly have
problems with that??? and there is nothing that they can do to make aol
better,but they still do! napster already made a whole new browser,based on
user feedbacks,nothing but user feedback

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 12:01pm

Do you even know how many employees AWC has, JBELL? Well, I'll tell you: 15. 15 total
employees, and that's including the people like HamFon and others who work remotely
instead of at the HQ in Newburyport. AWC isn't "huge" by any stretch of the
imagination and the idea that they can't even be bothered to implement *one* (1) idea
or answer *one* (1) concern of the AW citizens, people who have been with them for
*years*, is LUDICROUS! Hell, the Dudes In Charge aren't even listening to the few
employees they *do* have! *That* is what I, and everyone else who signed the letter I
might add, have a problem with.

See, this isn't about ME. This isn't about what *I* want them to implement or change.
This is about what EVERYONE wants to see done. There are things that all sorts of
people have been complaining about for YEARS that AWC has just completely ignored.
They didn't even give us the decency to explain why certain things can't be done!
You'd think they could at least do that, but nooooo!

And as for comparing AWC to "other" huge companies, (which is pretty much apples and
oranges) what about Netscape? What about ezBoard, or Valve, or even Napster? All of
these companies, which are 10 times bigger than AWC, somehow managed to still be able
to listen to their customers (yes, Napster *does* listen to it's customers) and
implement their ideas and concerns. Maybe not *all* of their concerns, but at least
some were implemented, and if they couldn't be, they were told why. Is that too much
to ask?!

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Wake up and smell the coffee.rwx!
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 20, 2001, 12:06pm

We're not asking them to drop everything they are doing and implement every single
little idea that we come up with. All we're asking is that they consider SOME of our
ideas and concerns. They haven't even bothered to truly consider ANY of the ideas
that ANY of us have brought to them, either through the Wishlist NG, through Facter's
suggestion box, or through email directly. If they were to suddenly turn around and
even implement ONE idea that the community wanted to see, then I, for one, would be
happy and you'd never hear from me again. Is that so hard to grasp?!

And as for "magnitude", check my post above.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Just because they're called "Corp" doesn't mean their a big one.
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 20, 2001, 1:14pm

interesting:)

lets see as a flying starter...

teleports, seperate worlds, higher cell limits, new avs, sdk, lighting,
move commands, new building worlds, worlds for specific purposes granted
free, new objects built by citizens, gatekeepers, peacekeepers, hardware
rendering, firewall support, skyboxes, universes, new object sets free,
evolving browser, z object usage...

that list took 10 seconds ALL of which were trigered by community requests
over the years, 2 of which are about to be introduced in the next release.

enough yet, or just none that are on your personal wish list?

Moria


[View Quote]

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