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Jun 21, 2004, 3:57pm

[View Quote]
I took it as a generalisation and a observance, nothing more, nothing less.

For instance for example

I never seen so many multilevel marketing schemes and must be a confidence
trick

Does not say X scheme is a con, nor does it say Z scheme is a con.

It says there is a proliferation of places asking for donations.


Now tell me where anyones name is mentioned?
Please try to read all the thread next time!

[View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 3:57pm

Linn, That's right some use aggressiveness as a tactic also thinking that
they will scare us off. On the one hand they say the children should learn
self defense because the world is full of weirdoes (but they get angry when
we call those weirdoes pervs) then they get all wild and ornery when we are
defending ourselves against what we would want to protect our children from.
CONtradiction!



[View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 4:11pm

This is a brilliant idea!!

I'd be willing to contribute $15.00 now and then to a "tin cup emergency"
citizenship.

Katrina aka Bearblue


[View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 4:26pm

[View Quote] That is a great idea, I'd be willing to contribute to it myself.
One problem though: who chooses who gets the citizenships?
Whether it is AWI or some board chosen by the donators,
there is always the possibility of things getting ugly
when some givers feel that a wrong candidate was chosen.

--
Mauz
http://mauz.info

Jun 21, 2004, 4:27pm

LOL at Alex heheheh


[View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 6:31pm

The problem with generalizations is that it does put everyone in the same
basket, good and bad. Directly or indirectly that can be harmful to the
good people.

There are some who donate all of their time and work in AW and never ask
for one cent. I think that is wonderful and selfless. The community loves
and appreciates it. It is also a personal choice that they do so.

No one can deny that AW is also a very expensive hobby. Citizenships. Worlds
license and renewal fees. World and path hosting. Licensed and shareware
programs to create with. It adds up quickly. Placing a donation button on
a website or selling their work and services make it possible for many
creative people to stay here. That is a personal choice, just as visitors
going to those websites have the freedom to decide what they want to do. If
you pay for something and get nothing, that is being conned. Accepting
donations or payment for legitimate programs, goods, or services is not.










[View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 7:03pm

[View Quote] > xelag this is YOUR post or part of it i had reason to tell you that this
> is an insult!!!
> Good point, showing your barbaric state.

Something should be bad with my eyes, sorry. Why is that post an insult? If I tell you that I have a PayPal donate button on my site and I received generous donations I am insulting you too?
Naaaaw - I'm just barbaric :)

>
> Not that there is ANY indication that the people who were tortured in
> such a way had anything remotely to do with sept 11. And even if they
> had, there is such thing as human rights and the Geneva convention.
> Or do you still linch niggers in the USA?
>

Would you please point where that crap appears in Alex's post? Because I just can't find it. Am I blind maybe? Or you have something in your mind which reflects those words into that post?

Ahhh .... I see - now you are extracting posts from different threads .... way clever!! You get a cookie for it! Congratulations!!!

>
[View Quote] --
Andras
"It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)

Jun 21, 2004, 8:17pm

Andras, You've got a right to your opinion. Seems all this sarcasm is
another way to insult a person / people. Alex is often difficult to
understand, not to mention quite hostile. He rarely clarifies himself
without becoming more aggressive. It can be frustrating to the rest of us
who read his posts on a daily basis. You want to compound the problem
rather than solve it, so where is the remedy?

[View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 10:57pm

Sharon,

your post is quite reasonable and I will try to explain my position.
It is true that maybe sometimes my postings are difficult to follow,
if you do not see the context I am writing in.

I have absolutely nothing against citizens of the USA or of any other
country. The USA cits are not better or worse than any other
country's. But they often pretend to be. Most countries have
committed attrocities. USA is not the only one, but when USA presents
itself as a moral example for the world, that does not hit an accept
button by me.

The postings I did, naming situations related to the USA, do not
reflect my attitude towards USA people in general. My postings were
motivated by what I consider a unacceptable way of attack on someone.
Let me also say that this someone is not sympathetic to me, nor I to
the someone.

A situation was created where this annoying cit was bombarded with
accusations that can not be sustained. Moreover, very dangerous
criminals were brought in as example, creating an atmosphere around
the matter. Claims were done of moral superiority to justify this
action.

This is for me unacceptable. It smells of lynching, an old USA
tradition which almost disappeared 50 years ago, even if it is in this
case virtual. In that context I posted my articles - just do a Google
on lynching and you will see how widespread it was - and the mentality
if not the acts do not disappear so easily. My words may have been too
agressive, maybe for some. I parodied what a lyncher would have called
his victim: a nigger. But I absolutely stand by the reason my words:
I will not accept this sort of lynch parties.

There have been too many of these attempted lynchings here in AW.
Freedom of speech is for me no excuse.

Every one of us has the right to dislike others. You can ban them
from your world, tell your friends of your dislikes, whatever. In my
opinion, no one has the right to create a witchhunt based on dislikes.
If there are real reasons to ban someone, and there may be, the
propper authorities (backed with the propper evidence) have to be
brought into the matter.

I do not have children of my own, but I have 4 sisters, all have
provided the world and me with wonderfull children. I love them
dearly. None of them have been spared protection, but none of them
have been lied to about perils. They have learned to recognise them
(as far as that is possible), but also to ignore annoying people or
liers for what they are. We have not turned disturbed people or liers
into pedofile ringleaders to scare them off.

I hope at least you understand my position about this. I don't nead
an answer to this, I only wish you would understand.

Alex

On 21 Jun 2004 18:17:54 -0400, ".sharon" <sharonclarke at prexar.com>
[View Quote] >Andras, You've got a right to your opinion. Seems all this sarcasm is
>another way to insult a person / people. Alex is often difficult to
>understand, not to mention quite hostile. He rarely clarifies himself
>without becoming more aggressive. It can be frustrating to the rest of us
>who read his posts on a daily basis. You want to compound the problem
>rather than solve it, so where is the remedy?
>

Jun 21, 2004, 11:07pm

How about do a bingo and the prize be the renew citi for the ones in need???

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Jun 21, 2004, 11:25pm

not too hard to understand this ill put it in quotes so it will be easier
for you to see what you DID say
> Even in the "barbaric USA "(check the wondefull
>activities by civilised USA in Iraqi prisons, as a new example of USA
>model civilization),??????????????? check what they did to us
>first??????????????

Good point, showing your "barbaric state."

Not that there is ANY indication that the people who were tortured in
such a way had anything remotely to do with sept 11. And even if they
had, there is such thing as human rights and the Geneva convention.
"""Or do you still linch niggers in the USA?"""

What about the 1000s who have innocently died from USA intervention in
Uruguay (my country), Chile, many many other countries, just to save
and protect USA investments?

Get real! USA is part of the world, NOT the world. It should respect
the world, not try to dominate it. There is no excuse whatsoever for
ignoring international treatments, as the USA does, whenever they feel
like it, but "preemptively striking against nations" WE REMEMBER
911!!!!!!!! who, in USAs own
eyes, do not respect these same treaties USA despises.

Maybe you should just stick to your village, it's safer there. The
wider world might be too much for you :)

Alex
so there you have it all Alex NOW can you understand it its STILL an
insult to SOME of us who care about people's feelings and as far as
accusing that person it has been proven in court he is a convicted child
molester and you and half of aw or for you i should say SOME ppl in aw know
this as common knowledge
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 12:39am

On 21 Jun 2004 21:25:25 -0400, "linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com>
[View Quote] >so there you have it all Alex NOW can you understand it its STILL an
>insult to SOME of us who care about people's feelings and as far as
>accusing that person it has been proven in court he is a convicted child
>molester and you and half of aw or for you i should say SOME ppl in aw know
>this as common knowledge

In what court, when, who'se common knowledge? If you have accusations
of this sort, go with the proof to the corresponding authorities. I
do not accept this sort of statement:

"it has been proven in court he is a convicted child molester and you
and half of aw or for you i should say SOME ppl in aw know this as
common knowledge"

This sort of statement does not belong here.

If you have proof of this, go to the corresponding authorities. I
have proof that the world is flat, but maybe it is round. But I would
not be able to convince my sheriff. If I would, I would go to her.

Maybe do us all a favour. Stick to what you know, don't invent the
rest. If you have serious proof, go to where it can be tested and
verified, and where people can act. And for the rest, keep the peace.

Alex

BTW, for clarification: your emails have been (and will be) returned
to you with an automatic reject notice. I have blocked telegrams from
you. I do not filter your postings here (only 2 cits are filtered, I
hope this will not be necessary).

Jun 22, 2004, 12:46am

I think enough has been said any 2 year old can see what you said its
clear as a bell you just aren't man enough to admit it even tho you are
looking at it really sad I think :-(



[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 1:03am

Stop the pathetic drama. So what if someone over the internet disagrees,
grow up.

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

Jun 22, 2004, 2:05am

Shut your american hole already, ppl like you caused 11/9 to happen!

[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 6:11am

how about votes? you contribute, you vote, and each person has a certain
power depending on how much he donated. say you donate $15, you get 15
voting points. oh, no one's allowed to vote for themselfs though, so have to
have a reason to give someone a cit, like, can't pay $36, and then vote that
your friend gets the cit, have to have a reason. all people voted for, must
have helped the community in some way, like the cyawards ^_^
oh, and if anyone complains that someone shouldn't have gotten the
citizenship, simple tell em to screw themselfs. No one would complain unless
they were doing something for a selfish cause.

-SWE

[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 7:38am

WRONG you sad case of monkey droppings!!!!!!! The only person who caused
911 to "happen" was Osama Bin Laden and his evil followers. How DARE you
make that comment to anybody? Grow up or go back home to Hell where you came
from.



[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 8:59am

Guess it is an insult yes; towards people who think it is ok to torture
people in prisons, keep people in prison without trials; to people who think
one country do not need to follow international laws and other imperialists,
liars and racists.

Personally I think one even should insult such people; they deserve it .

Drac
"linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d78a85 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> not too hard to understand this ill put it in quotes so it will be
easier
> for you to see what you DID say
>
> Good point, showing your "barbaric state."
>
> Not that there is ANY indication that the people who were tortured in
> such a way had anything remotely to do with sept 11. And even if they
> had, there is such thing as human rights and the Geneva convention.
> """Or do you still linch niggers in the USA?"""
>
> What about the 1000s who have innocently died from USA intervention in
> Uruguay (my country), Chile, many many other countries, just to save
> and protect USA investments?
>
> Get real! USA is part of the world, NOT the world. It should respect
> the world, not try to dominate it. There is no excuse whatsoever for
> ignoring international treatments, as the USA does, whenever they feel
> like it, but "preemptively striking against nations" WE REMEMBER
> 911!!!!!!!! who, in USAs own
> eyes, do not respect these same treaties USA despises.
>
> Maybe you should just stick to your village, it's safer there. The
> wider world might be too much for you :)
>
> Alex
> so there you have it all Alex NOW can you understand it its STILL an
> insult to SOME of us who care about people's feelings and as far as
> accusing that person it has been proven in court he is a convicted child
> molester and you and half of aw or for you i should say SOME ppl in aw
know
> this as common knowledge
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 9:02am

Xelag, dont forget that in many states in USA when a prisoner is realesed
from prison , he will be labeled for the rest of his life. Priosn there is
not meant to help him become a "good" citizen, but is simply to punish him.

So committing a crime and doing 10 years will not make you a respected
citizen, you are marked until you die. For example ex-prisoners may not have
certain jobs and cannot even visit certian apartements.

Drac
"xelag" <xelag at digitalspace.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:d85fd09r7vt7a1v2er7305purrrpns3lb7 at 4ax.com...
> On 21 Jun 2004 21:25:25 -0400, "linn" <ironhead at digitalpassage.com>
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 9:03am

no, YOU are going to hell when he nukes your worthless country to hell. that
man deserves the utmost respect and honour for standing up against all this
american bullshit.

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Jun 22, 2004, 9:12am

I guess one could go a bit deeper with it and ask why did Osama Bin Laden
hate USA so much?

I doubt he has picked USA randomly out of a list of countries. Maybe actions
of USA and former Sovjet in middle east has caused this anger.

Has USA learned anything from this ? No, nothing. Instead of the clear
message "let us take care of our own business" from the islamic part of the
world, USA decide to invade a country. This was the most stupid thing to do;
it will cause a never-ending wave of terror that not only citizen of USA
will feel, but the entire " so called" western world.

The action of USA ( the coalition) has been the best thing that could ever
happen to the extreme islamic movements. It has never been this easy to get
people to join their crusade againt the west.

I just wonder how long the people of USA are ready to sit and watch their
own countrymen getting slaughtered because of the current goverment. There
is an election comming up, I hope people will understand that people will
see the small possibility to get things better; although as far as I know
Kerry also voted "yes" to the war.

Drac

"lioness." <nobody at nowhere.net> kirjoitti viestiss
news:40d7fe23$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> WRONG you sad case of monkey droppings!!!!!!! The only person who caused
> 911 to "happen" was Osama Bin Laden and his evil followers. How DARE you
> make that comment to anybody? Grow up or go back home to Hell where you
came
> from.
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 9:40am

Drac,

not only in the USA does this happen, and it is regretable. But I
think this is not the point I was trying to make. If someone has
proof that there is an active pedofile luring kids in here, they
should present proof to the police and AWI, a proof that can be
verified.

In this ng, accusations abund. It seems that I:
am a racist
hate the USA and its citizens
con people with PayPal
comit attrocities and barbarian acts
am not man enough

I must have very low morals :(

Alex

On 22 Jun 2004 07:02:54 -0400, "count dracula" <dracula at netsonic.fi>
[View Quote] >Xelag, dont forget that in many states in USA when a prisoner is realesed
>from prison , he will be labeled for the rest of his life. Priosn there is
>not meant to help him become a "good" citizen, but is simply to punish him.
>
>So committing a crime and doing 10 years will not make you a respected
>citizen, you are marked until you die. For example ex-prisoners may not have
>certain jobs and cannot even visit certian apartements.
>
>Drac

Jun 22, 2004, 12:21pm

You are a very special breed of imbecile. If you dislike the US so much,
save yourself the stress and don't use AW-a program from the United States.
It's honestly not rocket science, and you're obviously debating a losing
argument here considering the majority of people here are from countries
backing the "War on Terrorism". Perhaps if you made a valid argument instead
of throwing out uneducated insults regarding a matter you are quite ignorant
on, people would take you a bit more seriously. I find it quite funny how
you seem to think americans have total control over the decisions our
government makes. I don't personally support the war, in fact, neither do a
lot of my friends in the army, but whatcha gonna do? I live about an hour
from dearborn michigan, which mind you, has the most arab americans in the
United States living there. Do they agree 9/11 was good? some do. But they
don't take their opinions out on the people of this country or spread their
hate. Why? because it does not involve them. They are not being attacked
because they are arabs, and neither is their family where the war is going
on. If you are not a terrorist, you have little to worry about. In fact, I
think you're a jackass right now, but you don't see me telling people you're
evil and should be killed. So unless your home is being bombed and the
United States has personally affected your life for the worse, I suggest you
shut the fuck up and remove your head from your ass. You bitch about how the
US has had slaves and all this crap, and descriminated against groups of
people, then become a hypocrite by descriminating against americans because
of what the US did throughout history, which mind you, is hardly any
different from what other countries have done. You just single out the US
because it currently is considered one of if not the most powerful country
in the world, which is pretty fucking ignorant of you.

And FYI the US is not "worthless", in fact many countries rely on the United
States for trade or humanitarian acts. You may want to get an education
before spouting off BS on a newsgroup.


[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 2:15pm

What sort of proof do you want us to take to the authorities Alex a "cut
and paste" of someone telling a group of kids that they are 13 years old
when they are in fact an adult for instance ? This isn't AWI's fault in any
way either. It's the nature of the internet with electronic communication
where people are "hidden" . "One of the main reasons for the rise in child
porn, police say, is the ease with which Internet pedophiles can hide their
identity." "By getting anonymity, and you know that there a lot of
technical tools for that now in the Internet, by you are getting more and
more probability of impunity -- not to be found, not to be punished,"
Simancas explains. (
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/02/child.porn/ ).

You know better too since you've been online a while that this is not
evidence enough to attain the proper punishment. Most people who were being
abused in Active Worlds by Seiya, or those who saw others abused, lost hope.
They were victims! One reason they lost hope was that this person was able
to change names and come back with more vengeance than ever. It was
exhausting. Innocent victims were manipulated and were afraid of being
embarrassed by this lying abuser. It was proven right here in this forum
that this person was unstable, vicious, they would say how sorry they were
then come back more twisted than ever lashing at another victim. We thought
it best to confront the person in public where it would have the most
impact, including warning others. If I saw someone being abused on Main
Street I'd do something about it and not sit back with my eyes closed. If
anyone bothers you in Active Worlds don't be afraid to do something about
it.


[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 3:50pm

well said since no one called YOUR name LMAO



[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 4:28pm

Thank you Linn. I"m comparing the aggressive behaviors to those of animals
the likeness is uncanny.

[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 4:52pm

Sharon,

what you say is interesting: there was no crime.

scenario A:
X does repeately a series of annoying and disturbing things,
presenting him/herself as worng age/wrong gender, kids fall for it and
then realise the hoax. No criminal activity was involved.
This bad attitude of X is reported in newsgroup

scenario B:
as scenario A, except that the reporting in the ng is done embedding
the whole affair in a highly criminal context. Examples are brought in
of known murderers etc and connected to the case.

With scenario A I have no problem whatsoever. Facts are facts, and
are reported as such. People can be justly warned. Somethings could
be interpreted in a different way than the posters maybe, discussion
is possible. For example, the fact that no one in virtual reality
presents him/herself as they are in the other reality, this is the
charm of VR... it can be misused though... etc.

Scenario B is an old fashion witchhunt scenario. A quantum leap has
been done from facts to fiction. All discussion is closed, emotions
rule. Proper authorities can not be approached, of course, but masses
can be moved.

Which approach was used in the case we discuss?

Alex


On 22 Jun 2004 12:15:39 -0400, ".sharon" <sharonclarke at prexar.com>
[View Quote] >What sort of proof do you want us to take to the authorities Alex a "cut
>and paste" of someone telling a group of kids that they are 13 years old
>when they are in fact an adult for instance ? This isn't AWI's fault in any
>way either. It's the nature of the internet with electronic communication
>where people are "hidden" . "One of the main reasons for the rise in child
>porn, police say, is the ease with which Internet pedophiles can hide their
>identity." "By getting anonymity, and you know that there a lot of
>technical tools for that now in the Internet, by you are getting more and
>more probability of impunity -- not to be found, not to be punished,"
>Simancas explains. (
>http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/02/child.porn/ ).
>
>You know better too since you've been online a while that this is not
>evidence enough to attain the proper punishment. Most people who were being
>abused in Active Worlds by Seiya, or those who saw others abused, lost hope.
>They were victims! One reason they lost hope was that this person was able
>to change names and come back with more vengeance than ever. It was
>exhausting. Innocent victims were manipulated and were afraid of being
>embarrassed by this lying abuser. It was proven right here in this forum
>that this person was unstable, vicious, they would say how sorry they were
>then come back more twisted than ever lashing at another victim. We thought
>it best to confront the person in public where it would have the most
>impact, including warning others. If I saw someone being abused on Main
>Street I'd do something about it and not sit back with my eyes closed. If
>anyone bothers you in Active Worlds don't be afraid to do something about
>it.
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 5:23pm

I've been wanting to reply directly to the original question for awhile, but
I watched as the discussion diverged and I wondered if I really wanted to
jump in or not.

But, I think I do have something useful to offer in this discussion.

Linn,

What you are seeing is a cybercultural shift. It actually started several
years ago, was made popular by a student who had massive student loans and
was looking for a way to pay for it and was called e-panhandling. It also
merged with the concept of freeware/shareware that was current at the time
and is still evolving. Part of that was also effected by the evolution of
ecommerce - through ebay, pay pal and the like.

What has arisen is a basically unspoken, but generally accepted online
culture which allows for donation buttons on pages (in this case, 3-D
locations) - either for services, free services or even just the goodness of
someone's heart.

I don't think you are necessarily speaking about service payments or even
donate for my efforts pay pal buttons. I think your complaint is mainly
about those who e-panhandle. But I don't think it's going to go away. Nor do
I think it's necessarily a bad thing. It's just another opportunity to
express charitable intent or need. As long as one can reject the request
without harm, then there is no need to worry.

There are people who do poach on the generosity of others, of course. But
that has always been the case. Part of becoming cyberliterate is learning
to distinguish between the poachers/fakes and the legitimate users.

For more reference on e-panhandling, which seems to be your real topic, you
might try:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/TechTV/techtv_panhandlers_021226.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74378,00.html

http://www.cyberdonationfund.com/

http://www.eureka-boston.org/feb_24_2003.htm

http://www.cyberbeg.com/about.php

I guess the ultimate point of this response is to say, "You are not
imagining things." ;)

Katrina aka Bearblue

Jun 22, 2004, 5:46pm

Alex,

You are the one that combined the two topics. Topic #1 Seiya with Topic #2
Convicted Murderer Robinson. Those were two separate threads. What was the
connection between them in your mind? For me the relationship between the
two subjects was how they used the internet to lure victims. In Seiya's
case some of the victims thought they'd fight back using the same format.
It was right and just considering the conditions of the interenet.

You combined the matter of Seiya, in what was perceived as your defense,
with another topic about the USA in the same thread, yet the two topics were
unrelated. Alex you were defending Seiya and still are! You've gotten
angry and frustrated which came out in sarcasm at times, other times I think
it isn't sarcasm behind your words, in either case the people reading your
posts are taking you for face value. As you go back and forth on either
side of the coin in our eyes we lose respect for you.


[View Quote]

Jun 22, 2004, 8:58pm

Telegram from Linn, sent Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:58 PM:

:-P you dont even know what im talking bout in NG was NOT talking to you
sigh YOU grow up !!!


This wasn't ness. Linn... I actually have grown up and matured, to enough as
the extent of some people tell me.

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

[View Quote]

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