1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  8  |   Order by index

Feb 22, 2002, 2:36pm

What if the land is posted private property? It's still breaking the law.
Not only that but it recorded information about it without the expressed
permission of the owners. Well all be, that's also illegal. If it's
public, it's open to users, not bots.

As Filmkr pointed out, a good point for once, it's on his computer and not
at AW's local office. I think this is also illegal.

-Silenced

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 2:51pm

Ugh... idiot.

[View Quote] He works for AWC.

> 1. The IP is located in the Atlanta area as being owned by COX
> Communications. That indicates that it is a cable internet connection of
> a private household.

He's a contractor - doesn't work at the offices.

> 2. Considering that of #1 it means the imformation collected went to
> someone's PERSONAL PC and not a corporately owned computer within AW's
> offices. The IRS might find this tactic very interesting!

What data? A world name? Anyway, what's wrong with the "data" going to
someone's computer if they're working under AW's knowledge to produce a
product for them?

> 3. Seeing how it was a private PC outside of AW's offices this DIRECTLY
> constitutes a VIOLATION of world owners privacy.

No. What was taken from the world that is supposed to be private? Anyway,
citizen 1 *always* has the "right" (in the AW sense) to enter your world.

> Now.. if you wish you might want to contact abuse at cox and tell them of
> the illegal activities that IP has been up to.

There were none.

> I have no problem with AW advancing their product but there are laws in
> the U.S. Just because they want to contract out to someone to sit at
> home and write some software additions does not mean they are legally
> allowed to violate privacy issues or TOS agreements of isp's. Regardless
> of AW's excuses it still boils down to this individual having your data
> on his PC.

What data? No one's address or other private information is revealed to
someone by entering your world.

> Until someone starts taking AW into court and forcing them to operate
> within the Laws they will continue to do as they please believing that
> AW users are idiots that will accept any abuses from them they wish to
> inflict.

Show me how they are breaking the law.

> The software that Roland has written is great... it is a shame that the
> company operating it is not. Just like the FREE citizenships that came
> with all of our worlds. I know that I will file suit if they fail to
> replace them when I renew the worlds. I have the e-mails stating here
> are your FREE cits.

They don't have any obligation to continue to provide the same offer.

> They can do what they like with new accounts and
> change licenses however they wish on those but they better sober up to
> what they already have done and abide by those words FREE!!!! I am not
> out to hurt AW at all. I am out to FORCE them to act legitimately for
> ONCE!!!!!

Nah... You just don't want AW to take away your free ride.

> Take care all... it is so sad to see so many people everyday hurt
> because AW could care less about them.

Uhh... What planet are you on? Entering a world to gather some simple data
for a search index system is not "hurting" anyone.

> The type in this post are simply my opinions and that GOD I am an American
where that is legal!

::Rolleyes:: Here we go with the "You're a terrorist because you don't agree
with me!!!! D:" comments.


-Agent1

Feb 22, 2002, 3:51pm

> From what I can tell AWLD has made not formal request nor have they
> stated it was them. I have seen someone who has a screen name of Mcgrim
> claim it was AW work but here is the problem.
>
> 1. The IP is located in the Atlanta area as being owned by COX
> Communications. That indicates that it is a cable internet connection of
> a private household.

It's in San Diego, not Atlanta.

Here's the trace route:

Tracing route to wsip68-15-23-167.sd.sd.cox.net [68.15.23.167]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 13 ms 14 ms <10 ms 10.100.224.1
2 14 ms <10 ms 14 ms 24.92.227.216
3 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms 24.92.225.201
4 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms pop1-alb-P4-1.atdn.net [64.236.4.9]
5 13 ms 28 ms 14 ms bb2-alb-P0-0.atdn.net [64.236.4.5]
6 28 ms 27 ms 14 ms bb2-new-P6-0.atdn.net [64.236.7.30]
7 14 ms 27 ms 14 ms bb1-new-P7-0.atdn.net [64.236.7.5]
8 28 ms 27 ms 28 ms bb1-ash-P13-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.97]
9 27 ms 28 ms 27 ms bb1-dtc-P0-2.atdn.net [66.185.152.114]
10 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms bb1-mtc-P9-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.190]
11 41 ms 28 ms 41 ms pop2-mtc-P14-0.atdn.net [66.185.143.234]
12 27 ms 55 ms 28 ms so-6-3-0.gar1.wdc1.Level3.net [209.0.227.97]
13 28 ms 27 ms 28 ms so-0-0-0.gar2.Washington1.level3.net
[209.247.8.170]
14 27 ms 28 ms 27 ms unknown.Level3.net [64.159.1.193]
15 82 ms 82 ms 97 ms so-2-0-0.mp1.SanDiego1.Level3.net
[64.159.0.238]
16 82 ms 96 ms 82 ms gige9-0.hsipaccess2.SanDiego1.Level3.net
[64.159.1.54] (note it's in San Diego at this point)
17 96 ms 83 ms 82 ms unknown.Level3.net [63.214.191.46]
18 96 ms 82 ms 96 ms 68.1.0.205
19 83 ms 96 ms 82 ms 68.6.8.21
20 82 ms 96 ms 83 ms 68.6.9.98
21 110 ms 110 ms 123 ms wsip68-15-23-167.sd.sd.cox.net
[68.15.23.167]
(final destination is San Diego Cox.net 68.15.23.167)

-Silenced

Feb 22, 2002, 4:08pm

What you are failing to get into your head is that, using your analogy, the so
called "private property" is just leased not owned. Gads, as the property owner,
aw doesn't need your persmission to come in. It is only a courtesy that
property owners notify before entering NOT a legal requirement. Ask any apt.
complex owner. they always reserve the right to enter. and remember that even
though the software sits on your computer, AW still owns it.

Holistic

[View Quote] > What if the land is posted private property? It's still breaking the law.
> Not only that but it recorded information about it without the expressed
> permission of the owners. Well all be, that's also illegal. If it's
> public, it's open to users, not bots.
>
> As Filmkr pointed out, a good point for once, it's on his computer and not
> at AW's local office. I think this is also illegal.
>
> -Silenced
>
[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 4:10pm

[View Quote] > and the virtual land residing in it.

Holistic

>
>

Feb 22, 2002, 4:20pm

Uh no, private property is owned by the owner. That's the only way you can
post it legally. If we're paying for a world license and the virtual land
without paying on an installment plan, we also own that too. We're not
leasing it, at least not under their license agreement. We're talking about
property, not an apartment btw, they're two completely different things. AW
still owns the software yes, but they don't own your information. Why do
some people feel the need to protect a company's illegal actions? AW may
own the universe, they don't own the worlds though. Just like the gov't,
they can't come onto your property or search it without a warrent. (I'm
speaking for the United States since AW is a US based business.. until AW is
on your local stock markets, it's going to be a US based business)

-Silenced

> What you are failing to get into your head is that, using your analogy,
the so
> called "private property" is just leased not owned. Gads, as the property
owner,
> aw doesn't need your persmission to come in. It is only a courtesy that
> property owners notify before entering NOT a legal requirement. Ask any
apt.
> complex owner. they always reserve the right to enter. and remember
that even
> though the software sits on your computer, AW still owns it.

Feb 22, 2002, 4:28pm

silenced, I am not even going to bother with this. read the agreements that
you clicked on when you installed the software. and aw didn't search the
worlds.... gads people get a grip.

have a wonderful weekend....shutting down now...byebye

[View Quote] > Uh no, private property is owned by the owner. That's the only way you can
> post it legally. If we're paying for a world license and the virtual land
> without paying on an installment plan, we also own that too. We're not
> leasing it, at least not under their license agreement. We're talking about
> property, not an apartment btw, they're two completely different things. AW
> still owns the software yes, but they don't own your information. Why do
> some people feel the need to protect a company's illegal actions? AW may
> own the universe, they don't own the worlds though. Just like the gov't,
> they can't come onto your property or search it without a warrent. (I'm
> speaking for the United States since AW is a US based business.. until AW is
> on your local stock markets, it's going to be a US based business)
>
> -Silenced
>
> the so
> owner,
> apt.
> that even

Feb 22, 2002, 4:31pm

The browser is different then the world license, do you even own worlds? AW
clearly did search the worlds, MrGrimm said he grabbed some info.

-Silenced

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 4:45pm

You're right, it is no BFD, BUT...someone can't leave footprints in the snow
outside my window and expect me not to question it.even if he is that
trouble-making landlord measuring for new windows. I sure appreciate him
improving my place, but just remember that if he wears a disguise and sneaks
up on me, I might jump. If you are responding here to the post that you
quote.where does it say anything about rights? It says.and I quote >Someone
without world bot rights is using a bot in several worlds.> Note the word
"someone"? and he goes on to ask.>any ideas?> Now where does it say anything
about the company and their rights or his rights or anyone's rights? He's
asking for information about WHO it might be because I saw it in my world
logs and didn't know. It was only later that MrGrimm stated what he was
doing remember. Six months ago my world logs showed me who was coming to my
world and deleting the property of another person using a privileged
password. I was able to keep him out in the future. If staying blissfully
unaware is good practice then this last instance may have not come up and it
sure would have caused no harm...this time. Do you recommend it?

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 4:49pm

AW may or may not own the software but the contents of the world become copyrighted
property of their creator under U.S. Law and AW offering up a right to a stranger
outside of it's offices to come in and copy any portion of what you wrote may very
well be considered copyright infringement among other things. The attitude that AW
has free reign to ignore the LAWS of the United States is absurd. Even a signed
contract does not hold up in court if the contents of that contract do not abide by
the laws of the state and jurisdiction. Someone just needs to slap AW with a hefty
lawsuit on a few of these questionable activities and sober them up!

I own a PC, and I wrote a screenplay... you going to tell me the motherboard's
manufacturer has rights to that copyrighted work? AW sold their rights in exchange
for the $$ they received... they licensed use of software and advertised it's uses
like "creating" your builds. The own the rights of their copyrighted software, that
does not allow them to rewrite the rules and backdate them when they already sold
the license. Adapt a new one for new users yes, but you can't go back and change...
that is fraud... as simple as buying a house and ten years later someone coming and
saying they rewrote the license and now the garage is no longer yours *S* That
could conistute deception, false advertising and fraud to say the least.

It's a shame they don't make an effort to do GREAT things and drive in Thousands of
users rather than keep abusing the current users and letting the chatter all be
negative like it has been for months now.

If they are trying to be a legitimate and viable company then they need to learn you
don't get their by violating your client base and abusing them weekly! If the
excuse is that they are testing then heck, create a play universe and do the testing
there. the software is free to them, they have enough worlds to copy from of their
own. What this shows is once again the lack of any intelligent or legitimate
management let alone any form CLASS! Simply put... AW can care less about the users
or the people who have purchased worlds! Their absurd actions show that clearly!
So this person AW allowed Cit one copies more than was supposed and quits... then he
has all that data on his private PC and AW has allowed it... I can see a judge no
dealing out the punitive damages for AW's lack of integrity and protecting such
vital information.




[View Quote] > What you are failing to get into your head is that, using your analogy, the so
> called "private property" is just leased not owned. Gads, as the property owner,
> aw doesn't need your persmission to come in. It is only a courtesy that
> property owners notify before entering NOT a legal requirement. Ask any apt.
> complex owner. they always reserve the right to enter. and remember that even
> though the software sits on your computer, AW still owns it.
>
> Holistic
>
[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 4:52pm

since when is the welcoem message and title (or whatever was collected)
personal information about the user? never. The way i see it was there was
no harm done and im glad people can find my world now although i dont see
what the title OR welcome message has anything to do with whats in your
world. I admit they should of at least mentioned it on the uni welcome
message or the ngs but its over with boo hoo.

And all you people who are claiming its illegal, its perfectly legal for
them. CIt number 1 was MADE to have caretaker in all worlds for a reason,
who says they cant use itm it IS their software and you are paying to USE
it. You do not own your world server becuase you cannot sell it to other
people or modify it. Try reading some of the user agreements or whatever
they are called im pretty sure it will be explained in there.

-Zeo Toxion

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 5:01pm

Last week we found that a user was attempting to sell Path passwords. This has led
to a criminal complaint being filed that is now being looked into by the F.B.I.
The evidence is pretty damning. Attempting to sell stolen property of any kind
across state lines is serious and federal. Now that person said it was done via a
browser which certainly sounded odd. Now Mgrimn announced he used a supreme pass
to gather information. That certainly places the activity under a very highly
suspicious nature. The passwords that were stolen included commercial property.
Based on AW's own figures reported to the SEC on the value of such object property
the crime is very much a felony and not just under state laws. This one was
interstate and includes several federal violations. All I can say is GOD help the
guilty and all those who in any way aided or contributed to the crime. The expense
of retooling a path is not small and either is law enforcement's investigations.
This activity by someone outside of AW's office certainly smells very fishy and
simply should have never taken place. There is no legitimate reason for it.



[View Quote] > silenced, I am not even going to bother with this. read the agreements that
> you clicked on when you installed the software. and aw didn't search the
> worlds.... gads people get a grip.
>
> have a wonderful weekend....shutting down now...byebye
>
[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 5:06pm

I have trouble believing that anyone could be this stupid... Maybe it's all
an act...

[View Quote] Your comparison is flawed. AW always has had access to *ALL* worlds in their
universe.

> AW sold their rights in exchange for the $$ they received... they licensed
use of software and advertised it's uses
> like "creating" your builds.

Have they stolen your builds and used them for their own purposes? No.

> The own the rights of their copyrighted software, that does not allow them
to rewrite the rules
> and backdate them when they already sold the license. Adapt a new one for
new users yes,
> but you can't go back and change... that is fraud...

uhh... no. The rules haven't changed. Even if they did, it's not fraud. You
don't *have* to use AW's software and can leave at any time.

> as simple as buying a house and ten years later someone coming and saying
they rewrote the license
> and now the garage is no longer yours *S* That could conistute deception,
false advertising and fraud to say the least.

You are just pulling things out of thin air here.

Feb 22, 2002, 5:41pm

His saying "I own a PC, and I wrote a screenplay... you going to tell me the
motherboard's manufacturer has rights to that copyrighted work?" is exactly
what everyone is agreeing with.

Any past discressions against him should be ignored at this moment, because
you're saying AW is allowed to do that, even though it should be hard drive
and not motherboard. Although these worlds may not be copyrighted, we gave
them money for their goods, it's ours now until it expires.

> motherboard's
>
> Your comparison is flawed. AW always has had access to *ALL* worlds in
their
> universe.

It doesn't make it right to take information without consent.

licensed
> use of software and advertised it's uses
>
> Have they stolen your builds and used them for their own purposes? No.

He said "like" that means he's comparing, he didn't say they did. They did
take information without consent.

them
> to rewrite the rules
for
> new users yes,
>
> uhh... no. The rules haven't changed. Even if they did, it's not fraud.
You
> don't *have* to use AW's software and can leave at any time.

He payed for use, maybe you didn't. It is illegal to change the "rules" for
old users after they've payed for use. As he said, it's fraud. That could
very easily be reported to the BBB.

saying
> they rewrote the license
deception,
> false advertising and fraud to say the least.
>
> You are just pulling things out of thin air here.

No it's true. Let's go back to holistic's apartment analogy. If your
landlord rewrote your lease after you signed and agreed to it, that's
illegal. Again, AW has to follow US business laws. And the world license
is far, far different then the browser license.

-Silenced

Feb 22, 2002, 6:01pm

ownership is the key...... AWCOM owns it all people sheeesh.... if ya don't like what they do then go elswhere it's real
simple.
nobody is forcing you guys to go through all this pain your bringing it upon yourselves...:) lol





[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:04pm

and I have trouble believing your comments have gotten this stupid and
pointless :-)) following your line of thoughts the AWC can't possibly own
the AW software, the company that manufactured their motherboard does. So
then the AWC are breaking laws like hell (well, after your way of thinking,
which is, off course, the stupid way)... and everything on any computer
belongs to the motherboard manufacturer. They have access, but NOT
ownership! The contents of a world is the COPYRIGHTED, INTELECTUAL PROPERTY
of it's owner!!! Not the AWC's!!! What about using your brain next time you
post?

KAH

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:23pm

For the love of all that's holy, take this crap to worldbuilders! That's
what it's there for!

[View Quote] > Someone without world bot rights is using a bot in several
> worlds. I checked the logs of several unrelated worlds that
> have no bot rights entry in common, and all showed
>
> Wed 02/20/02 18:21:44 68.15.23.167:1725 -1 CONNECTED
> Wed 02/20/02 18:21:44 worldname 68.15.23.167:1725 -1 ENTER 30929 50
> Wed 02/20/02 18:21:44 worldname 68.15.23.167:1725 -1 IDENTIFIED '[Search Spider]' 0 1
> Wed 02/20/02 18:21:44 worldname 68.15.23.167:1725 1 EVENT MASK 0x0
> Wed 02/20/02 18:21:44 worldname 68.15.23.167:1725 1 DISCONNECTED
>
> It seems to have gone through the world list in alphabetical
> order and stayed in each world only for seconds.
>
> No "Not welcome" message, traceroute reveals nothing.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>


--
Goober King
And some of these people are the same ones who whine when *others* post
off-topic! :P
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Feb 22, 2002, 6:24pm

Wrong Binary... I know you have been around for ages. AW owns the software perhaps... that is really to be seen, but that aside,
when they SELL and give with that SALE, "FREE" items which the "FREE" items became part of the advertised "Inducement to
purchase" then they have to honor those FREE items. As for use... they are not allowed to claim rights to intellectual property
designed by others. AW does not create the Laws of the United States... they must abide by them! They sold worlds and
advertised certain reasons for owning a world of your own. They cannot go back and change that unless they wish false
advertising, fraud and a array of other suits and charges brought upon them. Like I said, do what you want to new people but
we purchased worlds that came with "FREE" Citizenships that renewed with the world payments. Keep in mind the worlds were
purchased with ONE TIME Software fee. The world license was the only renewable part. The FREE Cits can NEVER be legally
charged for so long as the world renewal fees are current.

Now I would think since AW posted they had financial problems and needed to hike prices for that reason the last thing they
should be doing is placing themselves in legal jeopardy for foolish reasons that will gain them zero but cost them everything!
Have they not noticed the masses that have left because of their BAD BLOOD Tactics of the past 45 days?



[View Quote] > ownership is the key...... AWCOM owns it all people sheeesh.... if ya don't like what they do then go elswhere it's real
> simple.
> nobody is forcing you guys to go through all this pain your bringing it upon yourselves...:) lol
>
[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:25pm

It deals with the community and worldbuilders. The community deserves to
know what AW's doing behind their backs.

-Silenced

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:25pm

sheeesh you guy make me laugh Mr. Grimm was freak'in testing his software to improve what your complaining about.... the
software.... take a chill pill and go outside for a bit hey?

Leo :)


[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:27pm

Read again KAH! I was pointing out how AW DOES NOT!!!! Own the copyrights to
other's intellectual property. I showed an example of how absurd people who
are saying AW owns the software so they have free rein over to do as they wish
is simply not legal! I am very well versed in intellectual properties,
copyrights, entertainment and the publishing arts.

[View Quote] > and I have trouble believing your comments have gotten this stupid and
> pointless :-)) following your line of thoughts the AWC can't possibly own
> the AW software, the company that manufactured their motherboard does. So
> then the AWC are breaking laws like hell (well, after your way of thinking,
> which is, off course, the stupid way)... and everything on any computer
> belongs to the motherboard manufacturer. They have access, but NOT
> ownership! The contents of a world is the COPYRIGHTED, INTELECTUAL PROPERTY
> of it's owner!!! Not the AWC's!!! What about using your brain next time you
> post?
>
> KAH
>
[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:28pm

[View Quote] what the hell are you smok'in son Mr. Grimm workds for AWCOM how the hell is he a "stranger"? LOL i trust him more than i
trust any one of you.....sorry...don't mean to be offensive. just the facts.....:)

Feb 22, 2002, 6:28pm

Calm down there.. he was disagreeing with Agent1, not you. His tone was
very sarcastic.

-Silenced

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:30pm

[View Quote] When did I ever say that?

> They have access, but NOT ownership!

I never said they owned the contents of a world.

> The contents of a world is the COPYRIGHTED, INTELECTUAL PROPERTY of it's
owner!!! Not the AWC's!!!

So?

> What about using your brain next time you post?

What about not being rude just because I questioned an article you posted
about your bot on AWNews.com?

Feb 22, 2002, 6:32pm

Feeble excuse! Let them play their tests in their own worlds! Create a second universe for it.. that takes about 5 minutes
time. Don't invade private owners property and then use an excuse that loose. He does not even reside in AW's offices. Why
should I trust this person at all who violated my privacy and property? Heck, test in Flagg's 50 worlds... most of the worlds on
the list are AW Owned... stay out of the privates! As it sits now the FBI has to look into him as well as AW since they also had
access to the property which was stolen. Just as they would have to look into everyone who had keys to an apartment that was
robbed.



[View Quote] > sheeesh you guy make me laugh Mr. Grimm was freak'in testing his software to improve what your complaining about.... the
> software.... take a chill pill and go outside for a bit hey?
>
> Leo :)
>
[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:33pm

So
> thinking,
>
> When did I ever say that?

You implied it in your previous response to Filmkr.

>
>
> I never said they owned the contents of a world.

No, but it sounded like you believe they have every right to copy things.

>
> owner!!! Not the AWC's!!!
>
> So?

So, AWCom has no right to take anything without permission.

>
>
> What about not being rude just because I questioned an article you posted
> about your bot on AWNews.com?

What about not bringing other topics in to boost your ego?

-Silenced

Feb 22, 2002, 6:39pm

I never Implied AW had any rights to do those things, read again. I have stated
from the very beginning though out this all that AW is acting out illegally and
with no regard to world owner's property rights whatsoever.

My mention of screenplay copyrights was to show an example to those who are
crying AW owns it all and can do as they please. My Reply = There are laws and
they CANNOT "Legally" read my entire posts and you will see that.



[View Quote] > So
>
> You implied it in your previous response to Filmkr.
>
>
> No, but it sounded like you believe they have every right to copy things.
>
>
> So, AWCom has no right to take anything without permission.
>
>
> What about not bringing other topics in to boost your ego?
>
> -Silenced

Feb 22, 2002, 6:40pm

your a hoot why you wasting so much time and effort on nothing? LOL sheesh go make something that helps. and BTW most
everything thats done illegal in AW is done by minors anyhow..... what good does it do to even track them down when it's of no
use "legally" anyhow.


[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:41pm

LOL

[View Quote]

Feb 22, 2002, 6:45pm

Again, I wasn't responding to you, it was to agent1. Please, follow who the
response is to in the thread. At the moment, I agree with you.

-Silenced

[View Quote]

1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  8  |   Order by index