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Aug 24, 2002, 10:41pm

I don't think it's a matter of wanting to ignore someone.I really know
better than that in this instance. It's wanting to be able to chat and/or
build in the place you presently choose to be and respond to telegrams at
the same time in an efficient way that doesn't make both things confusing
and a pain to do. Think about it in terms of someone who doesn't just get an
occasional telegram or a slow-paced flow of them but maybe many of them from
many people at once.imagine what that would do to your AW time. We can't
assume that the person we're telegramming is standing there only talking to
us. It makes sense for the originator of a telegram conversation to realize
that if the receiver wanted to carry on a full conversation with the
sender..he would join him.and if the sender wanted to carry on a lengthy
conversation..not just say "hi" or send some important information, then he
should join the person he's telegramming. What can be more logical? What's
the polite way to handle this without offending one or more people or appear
to ignore comments that you just miss because you can't keep up? Have you
ever been talking/listening on the telephone with one ear, the cell phone on
the other and to 3 members of your family sitting next to you at the table
all at the same time? Well think about doing that all in writing. It doesn't
leave you much time to play with your Legos :-)

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Aug 25, 2002, 7:13am

What if "message them back" takes 100% of your time? That's the point that
neess to be understood. A thing is only rude if you do it purposely to be
rude..not if you do it to avoid trying to do the impossible. Rudeness can go
both ways. But even the other person (aggressive telegrammer(s)) probably
isn't being "rude" on purpose..just unknowingly. There needs to be a
diplomatic way of working around this. That's what the thing was about.
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Oct 25, 2001, 6:00pm

[View Quote] > massive influx of patriotism<

Tell me the problem there? Yes, September 11 was a great day for rallying
around the flag...unfortunately some of us were too busy looking for the
scraps of human flesh that used to be our family member. Maybe you can think
of something that would put us in our place for giving a damn about that?
And maybe some of your countrymen were killed..were those people innocent
bystanders then and the rest....what? Guilty as charged and justly punished?

>and hatred<

Their acts warranted love and kisses?

> is just another expression of
> America's repressive stranglehold.
> Not to say that I believe the terrorists to be in the right <

Gee, all those dead people wished you would have spoken up sooner.

>-- killing people is entirely wrong, no matter why, no matter who.<

So your solution? It's a little late to use the maxim "Live and let live"

> The US needs a good kick in the face, metaphorically speaking<

Metaphorically speaking? By the way..have we met? I'm CarolAnn...and you
must be God (Allah, Buddha, et al)?

>, though..These terrorist attacks certainly won't do it, they'll serve to
do nothing but make Americans more dedicated to the horrible regressive
monster.<
> But change is coming.<
It wasn't enough for your taste?

> I can feel it.
And are you enjoying it?

Apr 18, 2002, 4:28pm

If it is religion that starts or fuels (some) wars, it is man's doing, not
God's. If you don't believe in God anyway then you already know that, right?
If you do believe in God then you know that it is the interpretation that
some men have, not God himself, that makes men war. And often religion is
just an excuse to take what they want. We in the US have been told over and
over again not to blame all Muslims for the recent events in the US because
it was not the religion of Islam that brought this about but the extremist
followers of a group of men using that religion as the reason for their
idiocy. How can anyone blame religion for the lunacy of people who use death
and destruction as a means to get what they want when the majority of the
world's believers use their religion as a source of peace and comfort in
these times? The numbers of those who turn to their God dramatically
increased these last months, as they always do in times of war. Using you
theory it would follow then that in my small town of extremely diverse
faiths we would be constantly at war with one another but instead have just
passed the 75th year of celebrating Holy days together in each other's
houses of worship. This practice we have is not unique in the US either.
True followers recognize that they might have different views and are
tolerant of that and work with, not against, each other for the good of
their fellow man. The people who cause these problems are extremely
misguided and use "religion" to do whatever they want, they hide behind it.
(and what about WW2? You certainly don't mean the nazi's persecution of the
Jewish people?) Those who blame religion for the world's ills are certainly
not the ones who know and study it. They are also the minority of followers,
so please don't say that religion causes the worlds wars, but tell it like
it is and blame fanatics when "religion" is the cause at all as was the case
on September 11, 2001. It's like the fat person blaming food for their size,
not their use or misuse of it.

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Apr 18, 2002, 5:57pm

Yes, I really have to agree, it is the misuse..and that is true of many
problems about anything in the world today and always. But if some misuse a
thing, none should have it even though the thing itself is not at fault?
Then we may logically do away with many things. I knew an 8 year old killed
by a drunken driver.(many have been) so lets do away with cars and alcohol
so it won't happen again. Don't worry about those (most) who use both
wisely. If I may, for simplicities sake, use my overweight person/food
analogy because it is less complicated than religion. If a person has
misused food and becomes overweight would it be in his best interest to take
away his food, or encourage him to learn how to use it as it was intended to
be used? It is meant to be a source of nourishment and sustenance, not
solely as a source of pleasure and self-gratification. If used properly, it
will be a source of pleasure anyway. It is also meant to be shared in a
peaceful and happy setting. Ok-so we take away this food that has caused all
his problems..our overweight person would certainly not gain any more weight
but his quality of life would surely suffer. My guess is though..while he
was still able, he might find something else to abuse because that has
proven to be his nature. But on the other hand, many (the majority of)
people use food as it is meant to be used and it does for them just what it'
s intended to and they have not had to make one other person suffer because
of it. Someone might say then..as may have been alluded to in a previous
post, what about the persecution of the Jewish people by nazis during WW2?
Man decided he was doing the right thing there-as he has done from the day
the world's trouble's started. Logic tells us they were not, though. No
religion, no wars? Be realistic, man will always find something. We can't
confuse religions with a few individual's interpretations of them. Logic
tells me that the majority who practice a peaceful religion and have a
relationship with a loving God may have it the right way. No man is without
fault but the righteous will always strive to get as close as he can.

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Apr 19, 2002, 12:21am

I think I understood what you meant and I didn't take offense to it because
I know you to be a decent man though our views on religion are far
different. I sure wouldn't debate why I know (and I am not being
disrespectful to other views here, it's just my own personal viewpoint) that
God is real, but would sure talk with you one on one about it anytime. It's
not a "feeling" or a "hope" or a "I'm pretty sure", it just IS as sure as I
know that (presently at least) my blood is flowing through my veins, yet I
can't see it. Simplistic yes, won't hold up for comparison but that's not
for this place. My main point, and I can't imagine an argument against it,
is man will war as long as there is more than one still alive.and you know
he will, if not about religion then about whatever there can be two opinions
about. One reason religion is an easy target is because it is so important
to people but take it away and there won't be any less war. At least
religion puts guidelines on some things, like murder, thievery, even doing
bad things to your fellow man, and that has kept some people going on the
right path. The others.would do their evil because of, in spite of, or even
if there were nothing like religion in the world. Just like you think some
people need the promise of an afterlife to keep them going here on earth, so
do some people need an excuse for their evil deeds, and what better excuse
than "God told me to do it"? You know drugs and money and even sex cause a
great deal of evil to happen in the world, all over, every day, in everyone'
s neighborhood, yet everyone knows they have a viable place when used as
they should be so it's just when they are used in a criminal way that they
are looked down upon. We don't say the world would be a better place without
sex (we wouldn't be around to pat each other on the back for getting rid of
it in the next century anyway), or money or drugs (usually but not always in
the form of medicine), so why, of all things that can be used in the name of
evil, is religion the one thing we should do away with entirely? And we can
all be comforted by our faith if we have it, even in a prison cell.not so of
the other three. (well, I HAVE heard stories...)

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Apr 19, 2002, 4:46am

I will respond in private email..and am saying that so that it doesn't
appear that I don't know how to answer, I sure do :-) and will gladly share
with anyone. But my turn in the pulpit is over.
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Jul 1, 2002, 1:39am

1000 times more likely? That wouldn't be blatant exaggeration would it? Do
you do that often? And this bunch of American sailors you managed to fight
off? Are you sure they weren't already running the other way? BTW-you sure
couldn't "steal the limelight" from the 4th of July celebrations of any
patriotic American that I know :-)
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Jul 1, 2002, 7:52pm

Ambivalent,
Of course I wouldn't make light of something like that, just for the record.
I was referring back to my exaggeration question about Glitter Kitty's
previous statement (1000 times, changed to 830 times more likely to be a
victim of crime in the US than Australia). GK and I have talked and I sure
don't think she would have got that kind of an impression about this US (and
AW) citizen. If any woman (or lone man for that matter) tells me she fought
off a "bunch of US Sailors" I would question whether she was serious or
making a joke.and that's all I was doing. If she really did do that, then
although the situation was serious and the "sailors" were not worthy of the
their position, (unless it was flat on their back with her foot on their
chest), I applaud her ability to fend them off, but also can't help but
smile at the picture it puts in my head. Despite the fact that it had to be
traumatic at the time, I bet she's proud of that and even maybe loves to
tell the story. I would. But on the other hand I question the US/Australia
crime statistics and did a little research of my own. Most sites I found
either stated the opposite or had very comparable stats for our two
countries. (which is what I'd always believed) But then.I guess you see what
you want to see. Here are some URLs just for info, these are about 70% of
those I found, admittedly those that are most favorable, but most didn't
differ much. I've always wanted to go to Australia because it fascinates me
but then I've only read about the parts the fascinate me. I love my country
though and have had a decent, fear-free life here but as I said, you see
what you want to see.

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/guncontrol_20010302.html

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti23.pdf

http://www.minjust.nl/b_organ/wodc/publicaties/rapporten/pubrapp/ob187.htm

http://www.internationalinsurance.org/crimeburglary.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2001%2F02%2F23%2Fnc
rim123.xml

http://www.civitas.org.uk/data/crimeMyths.php

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Oct 4, 2002, 10:35pm

>I had a right to do that and speak the TRUTH, I get busted on for it, now
> you can bet I am going to bust back!

Is that right you lying loser?? I realized, after responding to your post
(way last week!) to say I think ALL should have the right to defend
themselves or speak in favor of those who they cared to, (yes, even you but
also Heartfall or anyone else..even John Walker Lindh for God's sake) that
you were a lost cause and thought you'd soon show your true colors. Now you
have, you worthless liar! I am in NO WAY connected to Heartfall, Insanity
or whoever else is affiliated with that person. I host my own worlds with
the exception of one now hosted by the very excellent hosting service of
Dataman's Synergy. I have no problems and he participates in none of this
newsgroup silliness. You said I was speaking at his request....you prove
that....prove it to me! You said it here then prove it here...as if anyone
wanted to hear any more of this thing that YOU choose to drag out.You have
to lie now to attempt to prove a point then I am certain you've been lying
all along! I have seen the man once in a world and we barely exchanged
hellos..and that was maybe a year ago. Why do YOU have to lie in order to
look good??? Is it because the truth would prove that you weren't??
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Oct 4, 2002, 10:57pm

Then keep it out of AW's newsgroups. What??? Only you can talk, post and
berate people?? You had no business responding to my response to you unless
of course you think this is the case. I bet you won't respond to my request
for proof that I am hosted by Heartfall though will you?? You didn't even
suggest maybe I was...you said I WAS. You said I was his puppet?? You are in
need of serious mental help if you are so delusional that you think people
he doesn't even know are somehow hyptontized into doing his bidding.

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Oct 5, 2002, 12:09am

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Oct 5, 2002, 12:11am

Oops..I meant to comment on his being "Lord of the smoke rings" (affected
his ability to reason I guess) Sorry about the empty post before.
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Oct 5, 2002, 1:34am

Wait a minute, I expect a response from this guy MrBruce though. If he can
lie about me and berate me publicly.I can expect to be vindicated the same
way.publicly. A week ago (my last post and he attacks me still today!!) I
suggested to MrBruce that someone has the right to speak his mind even if it
disagrees with his.that's all. Please go back and read it. I was and still
am (or am I now?) a neutral 3rd party with no personal familiarity to either
party but saw something I thought wasn't right. Was I right?..That's not the
issue here. But I didn't lie like he did..I stated an opinion. He since has
said I had no right to respond to his post in the AW newsgroup ( but I too
have a right to post in if he made any public statement..it was not a
private email.no matter the subject-or why did he post it for all to
read?? ) But MrBruce lied and said the following.and MrBruce..still I
challenge you to prove this.do you refuse?

MrBruce's lies:

>And Carolann your another guilty party for posted at the request of
Isanity,
>flmaklr, host or whatever name he is using lately. you expecting a
discount?
>Don't count on it!


>You never built
>in my world and had no right blasting me in any post!
>If your happy with your service with Heartfall fine I am happy for you, but
>you really had no business responding to me or my post, it was MY MONEY, MY
>WORLD, MY BUILDER'S BUILDS THAT WERE LOST not yours!


>You Carolann are just a puppet of Heartfall just like that freeloader King
>BlueMax, who can afford to pay the piper, because the bum does not work,
but
>has his Mom and Stepdad support him and his wife and kid! Like King so
>himself yes we both live with in 2 miles of each other, so yes I do know
>him.


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Oct 5, 2002, 6:04am

This is a real request MrBruce. Not important to you? It is to me.
MrBruce :-) I am still waiting for your reply. You know, where I asked you
to prove your fairy tales about me being Insanity's puppet and where you
claim he asked me to defend him, and also claimed that he hosts my world(s),
remember? Those things that you said were the reason I responded to your
original post that began: "Hello to all, (my emphasis on your word) I feel
it best to cross post this announcment so everyone(again, my emphasis) sees
it." MrBruce, I don't even know Insanity.

and then you went on to tell me: :

"but you really had no business responding to me or my post, it was MY
MONEY, MY
WORLD, MY BUILDER'S BUILDS THAT WERE LOST" (your emphasis this time) but
MrBruce I am one of the "everyone" that you posted it to.

MrBruce.no one wants to read this crap anymore, nor do I and that's why my
posts ended a week ago when I saw how things were going...but you chose to
drag me back into this by saying some untruths about me after all this time,
this whole week later, I can't imagine why. You ran out of insulting things
to say about others maybe? I DO want you to set that record straight. Can
you, MrBruce? You can bet there has to be at least someone out there who is
curious about how you might reply, :-) I know I am. I know you see this, you
obviously watch and post to it often enough. So get it over with.or if not,
why not? What's the big deal? You're like me, you generally have no shortage
of words. How will you respond MrBruce, or will your silence answer for you?
If you don't reply it could indicate that you are not man enough to admit
you invented that story for the same reason you might have made up the
others..... to help you with your "case", but you needn't pick on me
MrBruce, it cannot help you. And it certainly isn't nice is it? Now once and
for all did you make that up about my connection to Insanity?

Oct 5, 2002, 7:09am

Thank you MrBruce :-)
Final words on it here from me. Comment if you wish but you have done the
gentlemanly thing just now.

> As for you Carolann you just posted that you are NOT a user of Heartfall,
> never have been a user and admit you do not know Lars Wyka, so my post
> against you was who are you to voice an opinion in this mater especially
in
> favor of Heartfall?

Well not exactly what you said of course...but I think this is a reasonable
retraction...thank you finally MrBruce :-)


And I certainly agree with that :-) then you would see I barely mentioned
Heartfall as a business, especially that I never defended that business but
instead, supported their right and their supporters rights to defend
themselves. I didn't say anything until you claimed the right to say he and
one of those he hosted couldn't do just that. You may recall my first post
started out with and kept the theme of.....and I quote myself: "Isn't
fair play promoted here?"

>No, why bother so you can say I edited the truth to make my
> so-called lies look good?. I won't bother!

You said it..not me :-) Oh yes that's right, I did say something like that.

want
> to avoid being in my shoes, take my adivce do not make the same mistake I
> did.>> If I pay the $1,300.00 renewal fee to renew A!!CT in December and I
provide
> 90% of the world space to the public, should I not ask for some type of
> compsation in return?

I have never asked for any compensation and have distributed many cits and
have had many builders..but then, not on a scale I couldn't afford. It's a
hobby, not a right.

> But also remember as you push me out of AW, I support the program your
using
> right now, when I leave, thanks to your generous support of Heartfall's
> ripping me off, $1,300.00 for A!!CT plus all my worlds will expire, along
> with the 10 cits I support monthly at 6.95 a month each.
> Thats a total of $3,475.00 that AW can count on not receiving and when AW
> folds you can all go back to using ICQ!

Do I understand it might fold because of you? That would trouble my
conscience. But how long have you had your world? AW has only (or already)
started going downhill (cit number-wise) in the last 10 months maybe hasn't
it? I wouldn't worry too much though MrBruce, Aw still has over 1000 other
worlds to support them, it won't be just your fault.

Oct 6, 2002, 10:50pm

[View Quote] And you know why that might be a good thing? Because I am not convinced you
read the entire thread before you comment ;-) Because you still said:

" And as I'm sure Bluemax and Carolann are figuring out, you can't convince
those people who feel they've been wronged by InSaNiTy otherwise."

no matter how many times and ways I tried to say that my objective was not
to convince anyone that Heartfall et al was a good person/business to
contract with....it matters not the least to me...but that I was trying to
suggest everyone should be able to have, and be able to freely state, his
own opinion especially in respect to any post addressed to "all" and
"everyone". How can that confusion happen besides that no one even tries to
understand the other's ideas?

I wish both Heartfall and MrBruce all the success they each deserve. What
can be more fair than that?

Why do you and he put up with it, SW Chris wonders. "Having to put up with"
anything gives the impression that you are above those that you refer to.
You know how you can remedy that? If a thread doesn't appeal to you, simply
don't read it and you don't have to put up with it. :-) Now that is very
easy to understand. On the other hand I should think that anyone who feels
the need to comment in any way is also part of what there is to "put up with
".

Oct 7, 2002, 12:05am

Ok then, my mood was immediately lightened. ty for explaining. (I didn't
read the thread either of course;-)
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Feb 2, 2003, 1:52am

I can't believe this was written by someone I know who has seemingly
rational thoughts and logical ideas. WHO is it that turned this into an
international hate event? Not Bush, not the US or Israel, and not Dan. You,
perhaps?

Whether or not you like the idea of memorials for "larger than life"
(meaning people in the public eye) people who die...why make someone's
suggestion to do that into something sinister? Be realistic...how can we
make the same kind of memorials to individuals we've never heard of who die
every minute....except in our own hearts? But don't think that they are not
memorialized en masse often in public and private ways. More than that, some
of us try to save them in whatever means are available to us.

Just by chance I turned off the TV coverage this morning at 10 (an hour
after it happened) to go to a memorial service for my cousin who died too
young a couple weeks ago in Texas...it never once occurred to me to be angry
that she wasn't mentioned on CNN or that Dan didn't make a memorial area for
her in AW. And she was definitely from the western world...if you want to
divide absolutely everything that way...even this.

Please don't make this a political thing, a Bush thing or a hate thing. It
is a science thing and a sad thing. As a matter of fact the only statement
besides yours I have read that was negative was that the Iraqi people said
it was retribution from God. What??? To make 7 families and at least 3
countries grieve over sins of world leaders? (US, Israel and India) and to
cause an international science/space endeavor to end in such a devastating
way?? Not for these 7 people who's purpose was scientific, not political or
power. Not my God. Not any God worthy of the name.

I did get an email from a very good friend from another side of the
world...expressing condolences over such a terrible thing happening in my
neighborhood of the world, as I also did on September 11, 2001. Those are
the kinds of exchanges that will save the world if it is to be saved. Take a
hint.

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Feb 2, 2003, 4:50pm

We have the ability to explore cyberspace....should we be here?
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Feb 2, 2003, 5:31pm

We should always attempt to go beyond where we are and where we've been or
we'd never get anywhere.

And there is nothing wrong with honoring those brave and adventurous to make
the attempt. They are, after all, the ones (most of) the rest of us will
eventually follow.

Just by chance (what, again?) I saw a movie last week (I had previously read
the book but was still fascinated) about Ernest Shackleton. He was
memorialized as much for his bravery and for what he desired to achieve as
for his accomplishments because he actually failed at many of his attempts.
He and his scraggly crew were memorialized eventually, and still are, just
as the Columbia crew are and will be-and deserve to be. And we sure need to
know what's going on around us to advance our circumstances (when things go
right). No politics need enter into that.

Yes we always need to stop and think about where we are and where we've been
and whether it's been worth it. But we have to do it first to have something
to analyze.

But let it be known that, as your friend Dracula, I for one would have at
any time memorialize you in my small way, as I'm sure many others would
have, should anything have happened to you to take you away from the living
(for example, falling off your high horse). You don't have to be a hero or
an American to be remembered, you need only be a friend.

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Feb 4, 2003, 11:31pm

No. I suggest a water balloon fight.
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Feb 6, 2003, 5:35pm

Well, for one thing they had these things made to a greater specificity than
any others, or any the US ever had made and each one was made to greater and
greater specificity. In other words, they went to unnecessary pains making
them "perfect" if they were for "standard" warheads.
[View Quote]

Feb 3, 2003, 11:50pm

And I will go one step further...I will suggest an opportunity for all the
"memorial detractors" to make that memorial of another kind for the "least"
among us.

Make a memorial to them that will keep them alive when possible and then you
won't have to complain about them not having one when they died an untimely
death, or make one to help their survivors.

Let's put our money and energy where our mouths are. I can recommend 2 aid
organizations (but won't "advertise" them here...feel free to ask) who will
take your donations of time, goods and yes, even money and make sure it all
gets put to use right where disasters and disease of all kinds or wars or
any kind of human devastation strikes...all over the globe, to all people in
need. Help fight poverty and disease and help put right that which those who
chose to make war has ruined. Give people the means to feed and house and
doctor themselves. These are non-government run organizations who seek no
profit but who help people of faith and people with no faith, people of all
colors and nationalities, where ever they are allowed in. They don't just
give what is needed today but also the means to take care of future needs.

Or I am sure you can find some way to help your less fortunate brothers and
sisters in the world without having to place a sign on their behalf. Make
your own memorial to all of the people who don't get one on a world scale.

I dislike profit-making "charities" and countless solicitations for every
cause as much as the next person, but on the other hand I believe in helping
those who need it in whatever way I think is the most effective.

If you feel that strongly about the countless and nameless little people of
the world who don't get memorialized then you surely must care as much about
those same people when they are still living. All the news accounts and
publicly placed signs in the memory of the unknown dead cannot do nearly as
much good as the often unnoticed efforts on their behalf while they're still
alive.

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Feb 19, 2003, 5:26pm

I thought the same thing when I saw it and should have commented then.
Commending should come as easily as (or easier than) condemning.

*borrows hat, tips it*

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Feb 27, 2003, 2:34am

at what his/her child is look at on that little computer screen. If said
parent doesn't like what he/she sees, it's just as easy to tell the
child to shut the "bad stuff" off."

If that's all there was to it, I guess it would be hard not to agree with
you, especially if the parent were there 100% of those formative years. But
it's not all there is to it, and just why don't we know our village and why
shouldn't we? And besides that, whatever he or she finds on the other side
of that computer screen is part of his village.

other sources, then parents will stop doing their jobs altogether."

That's not shifting responsibility, that is being responsible. A good parent
is a good parent and a bad one a bad one, no matter what you do, but why not
do our parts to make the world a better place? Besides, it just might make a
difference in YOUR life someday. Your child needs to know there is a world
outside his door, and how to handle it. The neighborhood cop, the school
teacher and principle, the corner store owner, the old lady next door, (on
and on and on) , everyone your child knows, or their counterparts, are
people he will deal with all his life and if they don't have a good
relationship now, they're both missing a lot. What child can have a
well-rounded personality if he is isolated?

A good villager will watch out for the child that is out of his parents'
sight, they will risk being called a meddler to make sure he doesn't walk
out on that ice or get in the car with the person they think is a stranger.
How many lives do you think were saved or at least saved from lifelong
nightmares by some villager who cared about some unrelated child? Too
obscure to answer? Well then think about the news stories you've read lately
where a life wasn't spared because some villager didn't care or was afraid
to get involved. Don't isolate your future children from people who could
help you raise him nor selfishly keep all your nurturing abilities within
your own walls, it just might make the difference that's needed.


Of course it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it just takes a
village to raise a child well.

As far as the Cy's, isn't it possible where a category that both Gor and
non-Gor worlds can be nominated for to have separate entries so that they
wouldn't compete? If (conceivably) under 18's aren't allowed in some worlds,
is it fair to them or the worlds themselves to lump them together, because
they (supposedly) couldn't be voted on by some cits anyway? Logically, the
people who are allowed to see them should be the ones to judge them, no more
or no less. I mean, it's not like the Academy Awards, which aren't decided
by the general population anyway. But if they were, how could it be fair if
half (or whatever) of the voting public weren't allowed to watch whatever
percent of the movies they were allowed to vote for? Unless of course in AW
and those imaginary Academy Awards, only those of legal adult age were
allowed to vote. Not really fair or even statistically correct either, since
they wouldn't be voted on by everyone who pays to see them. It might be a
complicated task, but that's the way it is obviously, by the bickering it
raises.

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Feb 27, 2003, 2:55am

Well I don't know about that-I've never been there. But that's why I said
separate. It isn't the Academy Awards anyway and I guess it is nominated for
here. So..... I guess as long as the group that runs the CY's allows them in
at all (presumably on their artistry and non-porn merits) then those are the
ones who would consider all logical suggestions. The one's who don't like it
I guess should vote by not participating at all.

[View Quote]

Feb 27, 2003, 5:26pm

Well, as for me, (and for this post I am not even considering content that
offends some people...I hope THAT doesn't offend anyone) the only reason I
think age categories are logical is because....let's say for a minute that
the CY voting was 100% fair and accurate and that everyone who voted for one
particular CY subject, (for example best av or whatever) actually went to
see every single possible av that could be voted on. Of course this is the
way it should be, too, if it is to be a fair and accurate vote. If you just
vote for your friend's av because you want him to win....this is hardly a
fair and impartial vote and that av didn't get the vote because it was the
best av. That IS when it becomes a popularity contest.

Now....let's say there is one category for these avs that includes Gor
worlds and all the other worlds lumped together...... Now....let's say you
are 17 years old and you want to vote in the CY's and you want to vote
fairly and according to which av is actually the best all around. Let's say
you are 17 and are so honest that you would not go into a world that says
you cannot enter unless you are 18. Technically then, you can only see some
of the avs that are nominated, but not all of them. How can you fairly and
accurately vote for what you think is the best av?

Let's say 50% of the voters are on the same situation as you are. Then let's
say that there are 10 avs nominated but only one category, 5 happen to be in
Gor worlds......how can the vote be fair and accurate? The 5 avs in general
worlds can be viewed and voted on by 100% of the voters but the 5 avs in Gor
worlds can only be viewed and voted on by 50% of the voters.

Now assuming a real vote is wanted-fair and accurate and based only on the
merit of the subject and not on the popularity of the person who's subject
was nominated, how can they all be lumped together?

If they were divided, 100% of voters could see 100% of avs because the Gor
avs would be a separate category only viewed-and voted on-by those who could
legally visit.

I just can't get beyond thinking it is only logical to separate them. Unless
of course, it isn't a real contest based on real merit but a "it doesn't
really matter, half-assed is good enough" type thing. I don't think the CY
people want that because I see them listening to suggestions.

And of course, those that didn't need visiting a world wouldn't need
separating, and there is the very good suggestion of bringing the subjects
to one place which it would take care of it all together. Like the Miss
Universe pageant I guess. Can you imagine every voter going to each of the
countries represented to see the girl on her private stage?

[View Quote]

Feb 28, 2003, 3:10am

Oops, I missed the last paragraph in the Cy Awards' new policy. (it was my
economy priced speed-reading course, skip every other paragraph and every
other thread) That would seem to solve that issue then. But, when I spoke of
being fair and impartial I meant the voters who would or could not go beyond
their own rating to view nominations. I wasn't assuming any such thing about
teen-agers and the ones who wouldn't follow those rules didn't pertain to my
point because they already could view all nominations.

I guess if I had or frequented a Gor world, since there are so many of them
with similar specific interests, I sure would be starting my own awards
thing...seems to make more sense anyway.

As far as the parent/society issue, I agree 100% as I stated in a post
earlier under this same heading. On the other hand as Kellee states it sure
is no one else's place to decide the morality issues within a normally and
legally functioning family. Too bad there has to be more to it than that. I
was talking more (in the "village" theme) about supporting and being extra
eyes and hands when parents can't always be there. Good parents should
appreciate this and not feel threatened. But in the extreme, I would also
intervene if the guy next door decided it was in his infant's best sleep
interests to have 2 shots of vodka each night before his bedtime or that the
infant could wait in the car outside of the bar while he did his own shots.
Believe me, it happens.

[View Quote]

Mar 7, 2003, 7:32am

Please elaborate. It can't possible mean what it sounds like. But in case it
does, please state your nationality so I can come back with an equally
all-encompassing, oversimplified, imbalanced, unfair, generalized come-back
about your people. Thank you.

[View Quote]

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