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Feb 3, 2003, 8:57pm

Seeing as how it's apparently ineffective to counteract each whiner one
at a time, I'll do it en masse in a new thread:

Let me just ask you all one question: Where were you when memorials
started sprouting up like wildfire after 9/11? It didn't seem to bother
you that all these people from AW, many of whom didn't know anyone who
died in the disaster, were paying tribute to 3,000+ people, so why
should it bother you if these same people pay tribute to 7? How many
people need to die before a memorial becomes legit in your eyes?

Simple answer: It doesn't matter. If people feel the need to erect
memorials to these people, then let them. If you don't think it's
necessary, then don't make one and keep your inconsiderate pieholes
shut. Let those who feel the need to pay tribute do so in peace.

--
Goober King
So proud to be a member of the human race right now :P
gooberking at utn.cjb.net

Feb 3, 2003, 10:50pm

Thank you for verbalizing what I have agonized over since reading all those
complaints about all the monuments/memorials in AW. You have eloquently
expressed exactly what I felt. I was ticked off when I read those
complaints. Since when does ANYBODY have the right to dictate whether or not
to make any kind of memorial/monument or how to pay respects???? Does it
REALLY matter what nationality, religion, political or ethnic background the
victims of a tragedy are???? Or the people who want to show their
respects??? If those astronauts were Palestinian, French, Russian, British
or Iraqi, there would still be people who would want to pay their respects.
And who are WE to say there aren't any people in AW who don't know family or
friends of the deceased???? They might be tourists in AW or citizens. We
should respect those who want to pay respects to a tragedy, whether we agree
or not with their monuments. Just because the deceased doesn't represent
your particular country or political views, their death and the respect
shown them should not be belittled. ;-"/




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Feb 3, 2003, 11:03pm

I think what bugs me the most (as an afterthought), is that all the whining
and bickering that is going on about all this in the ngs.... have we
considered, even for a moment.... that perhaps one of their friends or
family is also reading all this and how it is making them feel????????
;-"<

Feb 3, 2003, 11:50pm

And I will go one step further...I will suggest an opportunity for all the
"memorial detractors" to make that memorial of another kind for the "least"
among us.

Make a memorial to them that will keep them alive when possible and then you
won't have to complain about them not having one when they died an untimely
death, or make one to help their survivors.

Let's put our money and energy where our mouths are. I can recommend 2 aid
organizations (but won't "advertise" them here...feel free to ask) who will
take your donations of time, goods and yes, even money and make sure it all
gets put to use right where disasters and disease of all kinds or wars or
any kind of human devastation strikes...all over the globe, to all people in
need. Help fight poverty and disease and help put right that which those who
chose to make war has ruined. Give people the means to feed and house and
doctor themselves. These are non-government run organizations who seek no
profit but who help people of faith and people with no faith, people of all
colors and nationalities, where ever they are allowed in. They don't just
give what is needed today but also the means to take care of future needs.

Or I am sure you can find some way to help your less fortunate brothers and
sisters in the world without having to place a sign on their behalf. Make
your own memorial to all of the people who don't get one on a world scale.

I dislike profit-making "charities" and countless solicitations for every
cause as much as the next person, but on the other hand I believe in helping
those who need it in whatever way I think is the most effective.

If you feel that strongly about the countless and nameless little people of
the world who don't get memorialized then you surely must care as much about
those same people when they are still living. All the news accounts and
publicly placed signs in the memory of the unknown dead cannot do nearly as
much good as the often unnoticed efforts on their behalf while they're still
alive.

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Feb 4, 2003, 12:06pm

goober king <gooberking at utn.cjb.net> kirjoitti
viestissä:3E3EF3F7.4020007 at utn.cjb.net...
> Seeing as how it's apparently ineffective to counteract each whiner one
> at a time, I'll do it en masse in a new thread:

Well, I guess I am the whiner number one here , so i will answer your
questions
>
> Let me just ask you all one question: Where were you when memorials
> started sprouting up like wildfire after 9/11? It didn't seem to bother
> you that all these people from AW, many of whom didn't know anyone who
> died in the disaster, were paying tribute to 3,000+ people, so why
> should it bother you if these same people pay tribute to 7? How many
> people need to die before a memorial becomes legit in your eyes?

I was in AW when it happened, in AW was several people who knew someone who
got killed in that tradegy.
If the memorials helped those friends and family cope with their sorrow, why
should I start yelling, dont build memorials?
The attack in NY was an attack against not only USA, but the entire western
civilation, it was a terrible thing because of it widness . It is something
that could happen anywhere, and will if we do not stop pissing off the
islamic world it will happen again and again. With great sadness I see
Europe dividing into 2 groups, those who want to attack Iraque and those who
do not want to. In the eyes of the islamic world, we are one evil
"community", it wont make no difference if french was against the attack and
british for, to them we hurt them as a group, and we will all be suffering
from the revench.

Much before the attack in NY I talked about that something like that will
happen, I could not imagine something this big tho. I thought maybe some
bombs in a few essential places , maybe some poison gas. Did anyone take me
serious then? No, one laughed at me, called me a pessimist . Does anyone
listen to me now when I am trying to paint up some horror scenariaes; no.

As I also said in one posting, if even one person who knew anyone of the
crew is in AW, the memorial has a place IF it will help the friend family
cope with the sorrow. Otherwise I still consider it as not neccesary. This
was not an attack against anyone, it was an accident. Someone screwed up.
NASA was warned last summer about that the ship(s) are old and not in a very
good condition anymore, yet they choose to fly.

Has it ever occured to you, how do the family and friends feel? Has anyone
ever asked them, do you want everyone to go nuts and start to erect
monuments, do you want to see your husband been blown to pieces in Tv each
night, or do you want to be in peace and quiet with close friends and
family?

>
> Simple answer: It doesn't matter. If people feel the need to erect
> memorials to these people, then let them. If you don't think it's
> necessary, then don't make one and keep your inconsiderate pieholes
> shut. Let those who feel the need to pay tribute do so in peace.

Go and erect as much you want, actually I do not give a shit. I was simply
trying to think , how do those feels who it REALLY touched. Have you ever
thought it might be inconsiderate to go and erect in all places?
>
> --
> Goober King
> So proud to be a member of the human race right now :P

Drac, ashamed to be a member of the human race, the most discusting creature
on earth, the race that will eventually destroy all life on this planet
.....
> gooberking at utn.cjb.net
>

Feb 4, 2003, 12:14pm

For the love of Ugrrl, I was not dictating, I simply tried to say, I do not
like them as you now are saying you like them. This hole shit got quite out
of proposition.

Well, has you asked a familymemeber of someone in the crew, if they want
these monuments? Have you ever thought that these monumnets might be
something they do not want? Who are you to tell either what they want and
what is disrespecting and what not?
If I choose to pay respect by giving the family and friends pecae, and be
aviable if THEY want me, why is that so terrible wrong? Should I also
compete in how big memorial I will build, will I be a better person if I
have a bigger memorial?

I know from my own experience, when i lost a close friend. I wanted peace
and quiet. I wanted my friends to be there when I needed them, and what i
hated most was people pushing themselves close to me and feeling sorry for
me.

Drac
lioness. <nobody at nowhere.net> kirjoitti
viestissä:3e3f0e46 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Thank you for verbalizing what I have agonized over since reading all
those
> complaints about all the monuments/memorials in AW. You have eloquently
> expressed exactly what I felt. I was ticked off when I read those
> complaints. Since when does ANYBODY have the right to dictate whether or
not
> to make any kind of memorial/monument or how to pay respects???? Does it
> REALLY matter what nationality, religion, political or ethnic background
the
> victims of a tragedy are???? Or the people who want to show their
> respects??? If those astronauts were Palestinian, French, Russian, British
> or Iraqi, there would still be people who would want to pay their
respects.
> And who are WE to say there aren't any people in AW who don't know family
or
> friends of the deceased???? They might be tourists in AW or citizens. We
> should respect those who want to pay respects to a tragedy, whether we
agree
> or not with their monuments. Just because the deceased doesn't represent
> your particular country or political views, their death and the respect
> shown them should not be belittled. ;-"/
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Feb 4, 2003, 12:15pm

Excatly! So if you do, I wish you would speak up now. And if I have been
wrong, I will shut up about this matter and start pissing off dogowners and
BMW drivers next.

Drac
lioness. <nobody at nowhere.net> kirjoitti
viestissä:3e3f1160 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I think what bugs me the most (as an afterthought), is that all the
whining
> and bickering that is going on about all this in the ngs.... have we
> considered, even for a moment.... that perhaps one of their friends or
> family is also reading all this and how it is making them feel????????
> ;-"<
>
>

Feb 4, 2003, 2:56pm

Methinks you're confusing "memorials" with "media coverage", my friend.
While I agree with you that the media coverage of this whole event may
have been blown a tad out of proportion (i.e. taking an entire day to
say "Yep, these people died... we still don't know what exactly
happened... oo! There's another piece of wreckage!... etc, etc."), the
memorials that have been erected for this event are not. Regardless of
whether the people knew them intimately or not, each memorial was
heartfelt and meant to express the person's grief over the tragedy.

I don't understand how a memorial could possibly be considered
inconsiderate by the people who were directly affected. If your father
was to suddenly meet his end, and someone you didn't even know built a
memorial to him, would you really complain about it? Would you feel like
your privacy was violated? Or, would you feel touched that this person
took the time to remember your father, even if this person wasn't close
to him? Somehow, I suspect it would be the latter.

Now, if you were talking about media people coming around your house and
asking all these questions about how you feel, etc, then that would
definitely be inconsiderate of the media. So, maybe instead of
lambasting the people who are taking time to properly remember those who
have left us, you should be expending your energy on criticizing the
media "glamorizing" the whole thing. Or, better yet, as Carolann
suggested, go out and give your time, energy, and/or money to other
worthy causes so that other tragedies, like AIDS or car accidents or
what-have-you, so that maybe more memorials won't even be necessary.

Oh yea, and in case you missed it, that sig was supposed to be sarcastic. :P

[View Quote] --
Goober King
At least *someone* reads these things!
gooberking at utn.cjb.net

Feb 5, 2003, 3:42pm

The big difference between 9/11 and these 7 is that the 7 died while doing
their job of wich they knew what risks are. 9/11 is a huge disaster where
about 3000 ppl died and didn't knew what was going on, just had a safe job
and had nothing to do with.. well lets call it "the silent war"
Its fine by me the space shuttle was in the news, but the over reacting of
the ppl on news like this I don't understand. How come they don't do that
when an airplain falls down with 100-300 ppl in it? I don't know figures,
but lets say about 20 of these large plains fall down every year. Its in the
news yes, but thats it. Suddenly this 7 ppl died, actualy a very small scale
accident and half the world turns upside down. I simply don't get that....
The point I am trying to make here aswell as some others do here like count
Dracula, If ur gonna get upset, get upset bout things that really matter.
Things like war where on purpose many many ppl will be killed. Get upset
bout hunger in the world, Get upset bout aids, Get upset bout Global
warming. I don't really care where u get upset about, just don't get upset
bout the nose of Micheal Jackson, ur new sweater, or 7 astronauts....
Believe me, there r more important things in life...

screb

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Feb 5, 2003, 3:57pm

gee, and when i say that (in a diffrent type of way >:) ) i get flamed!
well, i agree with you exactly. more people die from diese, hunger and war
ever year then 500 september 11ths, but i dont see anyone even bothering to
donate a penny for them....

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Feb 5, 2003, 5:33pm

Then, as I told Count Dracula, complain about all the media hype over
the event. *Don't* complain about people building memorials to the
victims and people honoring their lives properly. It's disrespectful to
the victims as well as to the people who paid tribute. If you're going
to lash out in frustration, at least make sure you have your targets
right. :P

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Not that anyone actually cares about disrespecting others around here :P
gooberking at utn.cjb.net

Feb 5, 2003, 5:34pm

ok then. lets honor the dead!

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Feb 5, 2003, 6:23pm

A better idea would be to shoot all the reporters... LOL Just my
2 cents worth...


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Feb 5, 2003, 6:34pm

lol, have you ever seen a libyan news channel? ever wonder why? >:)
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Feb 5, 2003, 9:30pm

" NASA was warned last summer about that the ship(s) are old and not in a
very
good condition anymore, yet they choose to fly."

- Count Dracula.

I think you got your facts wrong. Space shuttles are made to last 100
flights, and 100 re-entries to the earth. Columbia only had about 30. Plus,
NASA had just finished replaceing tins of parts on the shuttle. Also, they
most probably cause of this accident, and yes, it is an accident, was the
picece of insulation hitting the wing. Why you must attempt to NASA, i dont
know. But i can assure you that they take every concievable measure to keep
the shuttles safe. This is space travel, a dangerous, vastly unexplored
area. NASA could not have seen this coming and to blame them for an accident
is plain and simple wrong.

As to the memorials, some people express there feelings in different ways.
If people wish to build memorials , then noone should be attempting to stop
them. There is plenty of space in the AW universe for everyone to build
anything they wish.





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Feb 6, 2003, 4:18pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=68&ncid=68&e=16&u=/nyt/2003
0203/ts_nyt/nasa_dismissed_advisers_who_warned_about_safety

For example.

I have never tried to stop anyome from building memorials, I just said I do
not like them, sheesh lol

Drac
maxsilver <maxsilver at email.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:3e419eae at server1.Activeworlds.com...
>
> " NASA was warned last summer about that the ship(s) are old and not in a
> very
> good condition anymore, yet they choose to fly."
>
> - Count Dracula.
>
> I think you got your facts wrong. Space shuttles are made to last 100
> flights, and 100 re-entries to the earth. Columbia only had about 30.
Plus,
> NASA had just finished replaceing tins of parts on the shuttle. Also, they
> most probably cause of this accident, and yes, it is an accident, was the
> picece of insulation hitting the wing. Why you must attempt to NASA, i
dont
> know. But i can assure you that they take every concievable measure to
keep
> the shuttles safe. This is space travel, a dangerous, vastly unexplored
> area. NASA could not have seen this coming and to blame them for an
accident
> is plain and simple wrong.
>
> As to the memorials, some people express there feelings in different ways.
> If people wish to build memorials , then noone should be attempting to
stop
> them. There is plenty of space in the AW universe for everyone to build
> anything they wish.
>
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Feb 6, 2003, 5:09pm

LOL.

Chris

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