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Jul 14, 2001, 1:15pm

Norny and the others,

I have to point out that,

a) the at home charter does not apply to this newsgroup server as its not part of the usenet, nor does it apply to the majority of the
posters as they are not at home customers.
b) HTML is not binary, and its prevention is not on any rule that AW has put on this NewsGroup
c) KMissiles posting did contain a binary, which was not complained about. This would be the only part that may be conflicting with
aw rules, but i actually doubt it.
d) Size is not a problem, as fullquoting, which usually causes a much larger text to be caried around in postings for nothing, are
not complained about at all
e) HTML postings come always in two flavours, plain - text and html. any MIME-compliant news reader is able to present the posting
as text or as html, just the way its prefered for the reader.
f) its usually pretty bad to blindly follow rules and not ask questions. But you should ask them not on newgroups where they would
be off-topic. On the other hand, HTML complaints there are off-topic as well.
g) You cannot blame it on the HTML poster that HTML-Complaints generate traffic or usually contain not much "content".
h) concluding from g): The newsgroup was shot down by HTML complaints, not by HTML postings.
i) KMissile was accused and reported as a spammer. Spamming is sending 1000s of email messages or 100s of crossposted ng messages
out. KMissile did not do such a thing.
j) A posting on a ng is usually required to have new text as in text not quoted from other posts. The text is not required to be new
regarding its meaning or content.
k) Posting a one liner is not breaking any rules. abuse report departemens are there to deal with real abuse, not with something
that is unpleasant for Norny.

This basically invalidates your entire posting, including the threat you began with.

Faber


"nornny" <Nornny1 at home.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3b504e7c$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Let's go through this one by one. Don't even THINK about posting a one liner
> reply with my whole post in here or else you're getting an abuse report by
> me.
>
[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 1:16pm

Why does intollerance have to be advertised ?

Faber

"agent1" <Agent1 at my.activeworlds.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3b50576a$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Let's see... my new list of people filtered due to being morons who cannot comprehend the fact that it is not "nice" to post in
HTML here:
>
> Kmissile583k
> M a r c u s
> Mike Zimmer
>
>
> You have been filtered. Goodbye.
>
> -Agent1

Jul 14, 2001, 1:40pm

Well, I guess you're right... I wanted them to know that I would not be reading their messages any longer. In future, I'll not post to the entire newsgroup.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 2:52pm

Syntax has never shown me respect, who the hells NG are you reading Nornny. He
always has some little shit ass comment to make about me.


[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 2:58pm

Thankyou faber, finally someone with a few working braincells left to figure all
that out and type it out so well. I couldn't have done it better myself, lol :)


[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 5:27pm

Can you clarify yourself please and tell me the overall point you are trying
to make?

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 5:30pm

You trying to form a clan against Kmissle583k, Mike Zimmer, and me? We know
special html emotes, better watch out!!!

(_8-(|) DOH!!!


[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 6:11pm

Um, I didn't reply in HTML to the twit's posts.

[View Quote] > and obviously you haven't listened to the 1 million other posts that caused
> uproar from HTML posting. Eep has his way of showing someone not to do
> something by doing it I guess, if thats how he chooses to get the message
> out to not post in HTML then so be it. Do you think you're the God-sent Soul
> Who Will Reclaim The "Crumbling" Newsgroup or something?

Jul 14, 2001, 7:41pm

Okay, maybe we should look at the community newsgroup charter and notice
that all those rules listed on the at home charter is pretty much stated in
the community newsgroup charter. Tony M would prolly be happy to repost it,
I can't seem to find a copy (sorry for the lack of evidence), but you guys
assume too much already, you can assume that. What else would a newsgroup
charter contain, anyways? And big rule we ALL know he broke was 1) causing a
flame war (although it won't be stated that way in the charter, it would be
worded kind of like the "causing a disruption" clause) and 2) posting
someone *NON-COMMUNITY* related. It deals with teh newsgroup and some
individual posters, far from community.

I'll admit, I hate HTML, and the fact that it took me like 20 minutes to
figure out the message gets me kind of upset. I was still willing to help an
old friend, but he doesn't seem to get it. I'll be honest, Yes, we DON'T
want people posting in HTML. Why? We see it as a form of disrespect. Why?
Because if we don't see why someone has to go to such lengths to break
tradition and the heart of the group. It's something we collectively agreed
on subconsiously when the newsgroup started (I assume), and we've adapted to
it. No, it's not going to kill anyone, but we do have russian, spanish, and
other foreign readers who have a hard enough time translating english if
they have to, but to sift through HTML too? and you say WE scare them away?
Yes, HTML is there, and you no one says you can't, YOU CAN. But don't
complain because we're not accepting it. We'll filter you or try any other
desperate means to get it to your head, but still, no one is stopping you,
go right ahead. Why do you even care? You're not looking for respect, you're
not looking for someone to help you, you're just looking for someone to
agree with you, it seems. Play our game, play by the rules set. If you want
something changed, don't go Radical Crazy on everyone. Just say "hey, I
think we should have HTML, I know a lot of you don't like it, I can respect
that, but let's vote or something like we did when we tried to ban Eep (the
third time). No flame wars, just a discussion like we've had in the past. "
Don't DO it in HTML, don't go cussing everyone off for totally different and
non-related faults. Freedom of Speech, say what you want, get whatever comes
to you. If posting in HTML is really such a good thing, why has it caused a
large flame war and negativity when it could've REALLY been a good debate?

Anyways, I'm ranting. Back to what K broke. K posted something with NO
content or anything dealing with community issues. Just the newsgroup
itself. it was bound to happen, as every newsgroup has a flame war every two
weeks or so, but still, doesn't mean we can't backlash and say, hey, that's
wrong to come into here without any pretense or noteriety and think you can
break every rule in the book and disrespect fellow members. K has never
posted here before and has threw in a can of whoopass on Eep and Wing,
neither of which he has really chatted with, replied to, or anything. This
is the first I've seen of Kmissile, personally. Respect is a big thing in
this newsgroup, people yearn for it, god knows why. When YOU, Faber, post
something liek the reply you did, you have a form of respect (at least by
me) and comradery that you've established. I can see your...umm...brash
remarks and take it. Won't mean I won't talk back, but still, it registers
with me, unlike the other kids.

Nornny

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 8:21pm

SHIT, ARE YOU COMPLETELY MAD?????? Propable reason for Eep's 32kb of -:
because of YOUR line, his newsreader might have converted them in to
those -! THAT'S THE WORST POST TO THIS NG FOR A LONG TIME! BEHAVE OR FUCK
OFF!!!!!

KAH

[View Quote]

Did you ever notice that the people who have the most off-topic things to
say waste the most space and downloading time? Notice Eep. He wastes 32kb
of space and downloading time to try to make a point of not posting in html.
Can't everyone just stick to the topic of the post and stop complaining
about everything else. If people like Eep and Wing stopped complaining
about the pointless things in everyone's posts it would save us a headache
and a lot of downloading time. When people complain about this, it just
makes everyone have to download more posts. Why not think of that the next
time you complain about posting in html or another pointless off-topic
thing.



Kmissile583K
AWTeen Head Builder
Kmissile58 at hotmail.com

Jul 14, 2001, 8:24pm

you haven't, and if you want to share those questions and comments with us,
do it the right, intelligent way. just because of ppl like you, this topic
will NEVER end!

KAH

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2001, 8:40pm

Will you all just drop this subject?? The more you all keep posting.....the
angrier these ppl are going to get!
[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 9:23am

that's because you seem to like making trouble here, by disregarding the
Rules...

KAH
PS. you seemed on the right track when you posted those Name that Tune URLs
instead of a HTML post...
[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 11:19am

okay, you're quite right... but we MUST remember the reason for complaining:
the HTML post. At least you have gotten the message, and point out stuff to
us in a smart and intelligent way (in contrary to some others...). Abuse is
to create massive flamewars, by breaking rules and charters... And it's not
that smart to piss everyone off by posting huge posts with background
images, etc (like Kmissile and others did)

KAH

[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 11:30am

Ok,

it seems that we come to the following:

The rules that were broken by kmissile were a) be off-topic and b) post a binary.

a) is somewhat of a matter of taste since this is a community group and his message was refering to people of this community and
their behaviour. If his message was off-topic, than so is ours. (Yours and mine).
b) has been delt with in my previous post.

And you, as it seems, summarize that KMissile can be accused of intentionally causing "trouble" in the newsgroups, aggressively
testing out limits, stuff like that.. in general unsocial behaviour.

Something I do actually not object to, although i don't think that he committed a crime. Its just a different flavour of what, for
example, Eep exercises here daily, and what you see in about every group that discusses frequently.

Anyway, the bottom line is:

KMissile was accused of AW-NG-Charter-Rule-Breaking by posting HTML (which we know to be false), Spamming (which we know to be
false), Abuse of NG (false as well).

So, please, people, next time you don't like disruptive behavoiur, complain about it, but do not make false allegations or give
false "evidence".

*steps of the soap-box*

Faber


ps: One more thing. you said that "it took me like 20 minutes to figure out the message". KMissiles message had both HTML and plain
text. The plain text part was right in the beginning. May I ask why your ng reader does not distinguish (not MIME compliant ?), and
secondly, why it took you 20 mins since the plain-text part was right there ?



"nornny" <Nornny1 at home.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3b50bc82 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Okay, maybe we should look at the community newsgroup charter and notice
> that all those rules listed on the at home charter is pretty much stated in
> the community newsgroup charter. Tony M would prolly be happy to repost it,
> I can't seem to find a copy (sorry for the lack of evidence), but you guys
> assume too much already, you can assume that. What else would a newsgroup
> charter contain, anyways? And big rule we ALL know he broke was 1) causing a
> flame war (although it won't be stated that way in the charter, it would be
> worded kind of like the "causing a disruption" clause) and 2) posting
> someone *NON-COMMUNITY* related. It deals with teh newsgroup and some
> individual posters, far from community.
>
> I'll admit, I hate HTML, and the fact that it took me like 20 minutes to
> figure out the message gets me kind of upset. I was still willing to help an
> old friend, but he doesn't seem to get it. I'll be honest, Yes, we DON'T
> want people posting in HTML. Why? We see it as a form of disrespect. Why?
> Because if we don't see why someone has to go to such lengths to break
> tradition and the heart of the group. It's something we collectively agreed
> on subconsiously when the newsgroup started (I assume), and we've adapted to
> it. No, it's not going to kill anyone, but we do have russian, spanish, and
> other foreign readers who have a hard enough time translating english if
> they have to, but to sift through HTML too? and you say WE scare them away?
> Yes, HTML is there, and you no one says you can't, YOU CAN. But don't
> complain because we're not accepting it. We'll filter you or try any other
> desperate means to get it to your head, but still, no one is stopping you,
> go right ahead. Why do you even care? You're not looking for respect, you're
> not looking for someone to help you, you're just looking for someone to
> agree with you, it seems. Play our game, play by the rules set. If you want
> something changed, don't go Radical Crazy on everyone. Just say "hey, I
> think we should have HTML, I know a lot of you don't like it, I can respect
> that, but let's vote or something like we did when we tried to ban Eep (the
> third time). No flame wars, just a discussion like we've had in the past. "
> Don't DO it in HTML, don't go cussing everyone off for totally different and
> non-related faults. Freedom of Speech, say what you want, get whatever comes
> to you. If posting in HTML is really such a good thing, why has it caused a
> large flame war and negativity when it could've REALLY been a good debate?
>
> Anyways, I'm ranting. Back to what K broke. K posted something with NO
> content or anything dealing with community issues. Just the newsgroup
> itself. it was bound to happen, as every newsgroup has a flame war every two
> weeks or so, but still, doesn't mean we can't backlash and say, hey, that's
> wrong to come into here without any pretense or noteriety and think you can
> break every rule in the book and disrespect fellow members. K has never
> posted here before and has threw in a can of whoopass on Eep and Wing,
> neither of which he has really chatted with, replied to, or anything. This
> is the first I've seen of Kmissile, personally. Respect is a big thing in
> this newsgroup, people yearn for it, god knows why. When YOU, Faber, post
> something liek the reply you did, you have a form of respect (at least by
> me) and comradery that you've established. I can see your...umm...brash
> remarks and take it. Won't mean I won't talk back, but still, it registers
> with me, unlike the other kids.
>
> Nornny
>
[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 3:37pm

Size alone DOES determine content. If you have a really long text one, and
it has the SAME size as a HTML one, there IS no difference! You might as
well download the HTML one if you will download a text one of the same size

[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 3:46pm

Elyk.....welcome to a litle(or big) something we like to call......The
Newsgroups.
[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 5:25pm

mike, if I am reading you correctly that isn't true. HTML posts will have
larger file size, it adds too whatever text is posted.

My argument, along with others I assume, is that we paid for our internet
connection and now it appears people don't want to allow us to use the
product we paid for. Imagine buying a world and told you can only use black
and white for objects. They argue this file size translates into costs on
people who do not have the same internet service we have. Therefore, they
are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes posting in html.

A fix I propose on this is to have a list of screen names sent to the user
first. They check or check off who they want to read or not read.
Additionally, they could check off something that doesn't send html posts
entirely. There are many services that do this in email, I don't see why it
can't implemented with newsgroups.


[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 5:39pm

You did read it wrong. I said that a HTMl post with the same size as a Text
one means that they are the same size, correct? So, would you want to
download a pretty looking message or a plain black and white message?

[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 6:01pm

A plain black and white text message will contain more characters. That
individual post doesn't mean it is better, but when you look at the overall
aspect(playing devil's advocate) there is a significant cumulation of posts
in html(when compared to plain text posts)that will contain less numbers,
letters, symbols, etc... which result in a longer time online to download
those characters I listed and therefore cost the user more money.

Now, to voice my opinion on that reality. I say, have an html section where
people know ahead of time this information so they can make the choice, DO I
POST WHERE LESS kb's ARE USED UP? -or- DO I WANT TO POST SOMETHING THAT WILL
LOOK PRETTY? (like you are saying). This way, we get out of the file size
comparison and costs. Let the individual decide if they want to read a
newsgroup with html or not. This is a simple way to make both sides happy.

I would like to also point out, I don't use all newsgroup sections. 2 or 3
of them could easily extend file size of just one html. Therefore, html (if
used with proper limitations) might even come out to be less when you
address whole picture and not just one plain text post vs. one html post.

[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 6:39pm

Excuse me for interrupting. But why do you _need_ to post in HTML? Is it
only because you _can_ or is there another special _reason_ for it?


--
Regards,

Beardo

Remove nospam.
http://medlem.tripodnet.se/beardo/index.html


[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 6:55pm

Why do you need Active Worlds? It really isn't 3d, just manipulation on a Z
axis against a 2 dimensional screen to make you think you are walking
through something giving the illusion of 3d. We could just put pictures
together and tell a story like the good old campfire days. BUT THAT IS
FRIGGIN BORING, MUNDANE, AND DRAB!!!!

We html posters like to spice things up. That is why I came to AW, I liked
the added 3d (illusion) to spice up my browsing. Unfortunately, many of my
encounters online outside of AW don't like it. Anyways, that is getting
away from your question. I could see what you do in AW and question what
you need for doing whatever you do. It is your choice though, and that is
what makes you you. So, if you don't see a reason in posting html, don't try
to look for someone else to try to justify for you. Just don't use it, but
please support those that do so long as it doesn't effect people who want to
post fully in plain text by having a seperate html section.

I don't see why people like orange on websites, but they use it. I don't
ask them why they use orange, I just don't use it in my designs. It's
personal preference.


[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 7:45pm

and why do we need movies? and why do we need radios? and why do we need
TVs? and why do we need cars? and why do we need [fill in the blank]? those
questions are based on your thinking, and really stupid...

KAH

[View Quote]

Jul 15, 2001, 7:48pm

LOL, it's ok to ask why we need html, but anything else is just stupid? LOL

Hey look, my cousin has brought over 2 hungry/barking dogs (and I am not a
dog person) while my aunt and uncle are out visiting our grandmother. I
need a laugh now, thanks.


[View Quote]

Jul 16, 2001, 9:51am

filtered.... God, you're lame.

Holistic1

[View Quote] > Can you clarify yourself please and tell me the overall point you are trying
> to make?
>
[View Quote]

Jul 16, 2001, 5:44pm

He's just got stamina Holistic, LOLOL He'll wear them all down enough to give up
their pointless persuit to eliminate all posting of html in this NG, the whiners
and complainers have posted enough about it here that 1 little html post could
never do or create so much unwarranted k to d/l off this NG. It's not even worth
complaing about if it causes people to d/l more crap they supposedly can't
afford or don't need. They are the inconsiderate ones. A 6k rules and
regulations for netiquette post needs to be posted when someone posts a 2k html
post, LOL Kind of defeats the purpose for posting it, lol The last 2k post here
was.... 10 posts prior to this one, the html post that started all this was only
2k, LOL It's simply ridiculous argueing about it or trying to even stop it.
This NG would be DEAD if it wasn't for people having someone or something to
bitch about, LOL It's really the only time you even see most of these people
post here, lol They'll just crawl back under their rock and wait for their next
victim now, lol


[View Quote]

Jul 17, 2001, 6:24pm

In Response to ALL posts in this string:

Have you every thought about skipping posts with HTML in them? If it takes
you 20 min to decypher it then don't read it, ignore it an move on!
Delete it if you want to...


LilAlpha Phalpha

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