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Mar 10, 2001, 2:21am

I want to invite everyone to NewYork World's 2nd Anniversary. Many
events scheduled throughout the day. Come early and stay late in the
city that never sleeps!! NewYork is in a constant state of transition,
return often to see its progress! I personally go to NYC to capture
pictures of Times Square for the realistic building in NewYork. If
anyone has any questions about NYC, telegram me and I will try to answer
your questions. We are especially honored and proud to announce our
recognition in PCGamer Magazine March issue!!! It was such an honor!!

See you at the party and check back for open building in the future!!

FriendPA :)

Mar 11, 2001, 2:02pm

FriendPA

Not only do you do nothing when Chucks Party, and others in the past, post
their vitriol in the newsgroup because they took personal affront over some
petty issue, but you posted this article?

I do hope your event went well, and have distanced myself so that you can
enjoy your event in peace. What I don't understand is how you live with
yourself for the extra digs you obviously intended for me.

You say "NewYork is in a constant state of transition" Yes and why is
that? Because you grabbed hold of the people that bounced off Broadway
world, Borgs4ever, Chucks Party and jfk2. Do you take pride in using people
who once were part of Broadway world, too weak to stand up for themselves
when things didn't go their way? Who anyone else would regard as traiters?
Tell me, since I left have you done any work yourself in NewYork world or
have you continued to use other people?

You say in your post "I personally go to NYC to capture pictures of Times
Square for the realistic building of NewYork" Really? How many times did
I ask you to go in and get more pictures and you said no? And how many
times did I tell you that the pictures you took needed improvement? And
even so, I still managed to do all that "realistic building" you appear so
eager to boast about. Well sorry, but the truth is I spent hours upon
hours surfing the web searching out other pictures and information I could
use to build from. And once I'd done that, I searched out other
photographers to get what I needed.

You say "We are especially honored and proud to announce our recognition
etc." We? We who? Why are you honored? What did you contribute? And
furthermore, the magazine does not refer to NewYork world - it refers to the
"virtual re-creations of Times Square etc". You did not make it - I did.
Truely what have you got to boast about? That you hosted my work is about
all you can take credit for.

I do try to turn a blind eye to your continued disregard of the copyright of
my objects. You don't have permission to use my objects, nor do you have
permission to allow anyone else to use my objects, yet you continue to
breach copyright law as if somehow you have a right to? To add insult to
injury you refuse to place any credit to me in your world for the objects or
the builds.

Finally I remind you, that it was you that failed to trust me when you
should have. It was you that withdrew the rights that I needed to continue
my work. And it was you that denied us any opportunity to reconcile the
problems or compromise towards a resolution. With this in mind you have no
second thoughts when you tell people about how I have wronged you and did
bad by you?

You are so eager to discredit my name and take all the credit yourself.
Well think about it - subtract all the work I did from NewYork world and
tell me what would be left that you can take credit for? If you keep all my
work how can you go about discrediting my name? Take credit for what you
do, and give credit to those that earned it. I really don't understand why
you do the exact opposite!

Regards, Justin

PS: dirty laundry stinks!

[View Quote]

Mar 11, 2001, 5:01pm

Yes, it does indeed.

-John Viper

[View Quote] > PS: dirty laundry stinks!

Mar 11, 2001, 5:26pm

Justin,

Now that it seems you have started opening the dirty laundry bag, maybe I should
describe a bit of the contents within your bag? Justin beware, I have held back
for a long time and it is getting very difficult to restrain it with your
present harrassment of me and the builders who come to NewYork. Just as you
told Chuck, you are ok as long as noone goes to NewYork but as soon as it
becomes popular, you will do something about it. Well I may do something in
return and only you know what Im referring to.

It sounds like you are quite paranoid about what you call "digs" and I haven't a
clue what you are talking about. Yes NewYork is in transition, and what does
this have to do with you and your paranoia, and yes PCGamer mentioned NewYork's
Times square in its article and you only feel offended since you are no longer
involved in NewYork or a part of it.

And Trust????? I hardly think anyone in this entire community would trust a
person who goes to their hoster asking for a duplicate world to be hosted with
its dup files...so that you can personally showcase it to a business person.
You are purely out for profit, like you said...you aren't here for friends or
how ever you stated it a while back. That is the stark difference between the
two of us...You are here for profit and will cut throat anyone for it and your
past is proof. I believe that good things eventually happen to good
people...and you hurt me badly. I just sit back and more or less pretend you
don't exist and life goes on. Stop harrassing me Justin and the people who come
to NewYork. These people came to NewYork cause of your abuse in Broadway...let
them be also...they are trying to get away from you also... just as I am... You
hurt some people and seem to continue to do so.

I'm sick of hearing about this copywright garbage...you had uploaded them to my
ftp...I in fact at one point requested you not to make so many objects as to
fill the path I was on. I had given you all the tools and freedom to do what
you did and let you more or less run the world...and you took advantage and
instead of being thankful, you stab me in the back. I am forever thankful to
the person who first gave me privileges to caretake and upload to their world
Sirocco...and his name is Formatcdrive. He had given me the freedom and tools
that allowed me to learn rwx and how to make my own objects and textures. In
fact, I left everything I made on his server and it is used today in his world.
I just don't understand you Justin...This is purely sour grapes.



[View Quote] > FriendPA
>
> Not only do you do nothing when Chucks Party, and others in the past, post
> their vitriol in the newsgroup because they took personal affront over some
> petty issue, but you posted this article?
>
> I do hope your event went well, and have distanced myself so that you can
> enjoy your event in peace. What I don't understand is how you live with
> yourself for the extra digs you obviously intended for me.
>
> You say "NewYork is in a constant state of transition" Yes and why is
> that? Because you grabbed hold of the people that bounced off Broadway
> world, Borgs4ever, Chucks Party and jfk2. Do you take pride in using people
> who once were part of Broadway world, too weak to stand up for themselves
> when things didn't go their way? Who anyone else would regard as traiters?
> Tell me, since I left have you done any work yourself in NewYork world or
> have you continued to use other people?
>
> You say in your post "I personally go to NYC to capture pictures of Times
> Square for the realistic building of NewYork" Really? How many times did
> I ask you to go in and get more pictures and you said no? And how many
> times did I tell you that the pictures you took needed improvement? And
> even so, I still managed to do all that "realistic building" you appear so
> eager to boast about. Well sorry, but the truth is I spent hours upon
> hours surfing the web searching out other pictures and information I could
> use to build from. And once I'd done that, I searched out other
> photographers to get what I needed.
>
> You say "We are especially honored and proud to announce our recognition
> etc." We? We who? Why are you honored? What did you contribute? And
> furthermore, the magazine does not refer to NewYork world - it refers to the
> "virtual re-creations of Times Square etc". You did not make it - I did.
> Truely what have you got to boast about? That you hosted my work is about
> all you can take credit for.
>
> I do try to turn a blind eye to your continued disregard of the copyright of
> my objects. You don't have permission to use my objects, nor do you have
> permission to allow anyone else to use my objects, yet you continue to
> breach copyright law as if somehow you have a right to? To add insult to
> injury you refuse to place any credit to me in your world for the objects or
> the builds.
>
> Finally I remind you, that it was you that failed to trust me when you
> should have. It was you that withdrew the rights that I needed to continue
> my work. And it was you that denied us any opportunity to reconcile the
> problems or compromise towards a resolution. With this in mind you have no
> second thoughts when you tell people about how I have wronged you and did
> bad by you?
>
> You are so eager to discredit my name and take all the credit yourself.
> Well think about it - subtract all the work I did from NewYork world and
> tell me what would be left that you can take credit for? If you keep all my
> work how can you go about discrediting my name? Take credit for what you
> do, and give credit to those that earned it. I really don't understand why
> you do the exact opposite!
>
> Regards, Justin
>
> PS: dirty laundry stinks!
>
[View Quote]

Mar 11, 2001, 5:56pm

Why was posted in the community ng??? Sounds like a personal continuing
grudge between you and FriendPA and should be kept between the two of you.

Fyrene

[View Quote]

Mar 11, 2001, 11:23pm

Justin,

You are exceeding all limits. Not only did you try to monopolise a world
which was not yours, you continue to hassle the owner of that world,
FriendPA. Please refrain from this.

XelaG

Mar 12, 2001, 8:19am

I would just like to state for the record that #1 Justin is a total LIAR and
#2 I never knew FriendPA until I left BW, um make that was ejected from
Broadway World by OneSummer because she happened to not like the club I was
bldg in Borgs4ever's Tower, that is when I said I want to go see New York
World and find out what all the talk has been about. At that point by the
way Justin had always spoke about it he said it was a copy of BW, well, I
was soon to find out what a LIAR Justin really is and still is because I
went to FriendPA she did not ever come to me like you did to Borgs4ever the
other day in NYW Justin and told him to stop bldg with your objects, you are
such a pathetic deranged individual there are not even words to describe how
pathetic you are Justin and what a LIAR you really are. I will post this
link again for those of you who did not get to view the facts and the TRUTH,
a word justin does not know, in tgrams and recorded chat :)
This is the URL link to everything you need for the formal complaint of
harassment I am giving you to review.
angelfire.com/wa2/22777/images/INFO_concerning_the_BW_incident.doc
P.S. Nothing still has been done about him and never will so guess we fight
fire with fire now. I am fairly good at destroying someone that needs to be
destroyed just as well as anyone else. So here's to you Justin, FIRE IN THE
HOLE!! back atcha :) Chucks Party

[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 9:07am

http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/22777/images/INFO_concerning_the_BW_incident.do
c Something clickable from an email, lol Kinda works different outside of
AW, lol Chucks Party :)


[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 9:09am

http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/22777/images/INFO_concerning_the_BW_incident.do
c oops again, get that c in there lol
[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 11:57am

I think that, from now on, if someone wants to find out where to find information about the whole NewYork/Broadway thing, they should go ask the people involved personally. I really don't care anymore about the whole issue, and personally don't like the fact that people find it nessecary to use the newsgroups to attack each other over some issue involving two private worlds.


-Agent1



[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 1:53pm

Yes that would be nice Agent1 but unfortunately this is a community issue,
do you own a world? And if you do let's say someone agreed to make objects
for your world and then those objects were used to build the foundation for
that world, then somewhere down the road this person says well I don't want
to be a part of your world anymore because I can get an investor to put a
copy of this world onto another world that I will own. Now you tell me how
you would feel. You tell me why AW continues to agree to let Justin, who
went into NYW with his bot copied an entire 3D city that was not even built
in his name but in NewYorker's name and cit# then ran off and made another
world that a bot completely copied and rebuilt on the new world that we all
know now as Broadway. How would you feel? Then on your world's 2nd
anniversary date there seems to be this conspiracy by the AWCC to be sure
that a so called Community event shows off the same world that has caused
you so much grief from the same person that stole and copied your world, NOW
how would you feel? Then this person decides to post more lies to cover up
the truth of the matter which causes more insult to injury. I don't care if
you don't like hearing about it but the fact remains that this has sent some
kind of message to people that anyone will be allowed to do this in the
future and not suffer any ill effects from it. As far as I am concerned it's
just another form of stealing. I don't know if there are any rules in AW
against doing such a thing, but if there isn't there should be to protact
all world owners from this kind of abuse. How would you feel? Chucks Party

[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 4:25pm

[View Quote] In a sense, I do. It is not a community issue, it's one that needs to be dealt with by only the parties involved.


> And if you do let's say someone agreed to make objects
> for your world and then those objects were used to build the foundation for
> that world, then somewhere down the road this person says well I don't want
> to be a part of your world anymore because I can get an investor to put a
> copy of this world onto another world that I will own. Now you tell me how
> you would feel. You tell me why AW continues to agree to let Justin, who
> went into NYW with his bot copied an entire 3D city that was not even built
> in his name but in NewYorker's name and cit# then ran off and made another
> world that a bot completely copied and rebuilt on the new world that we all
> know now as Broadway. How would you feel? Then on your world's 2nd
> anniversary date there seems to be this conspiracy by the AWCC to be sure
> that a so called Community event shows off the same world that has caused
> you so much grief from the same person that stole and copied your world, NOW
> how would you feel?

> Then this person decides to post more lies to cover up the truth of the matter which causes more insult to injury.

If my newsreader is working properly, it wasn't Just In that started this thread.

> I don't care if you don't like hearing about it but the fact remains that this has sent some
> kind of message to people that anyone will be allowed to do this in the
> future and not suffer any ill effects from it. As far as I am concerned it's
> just another form of stealing. I don't know if there are any rules in AW
> against doing such a thing, but if there isn't there should be to protact
> all world owners from this kind of abuse. How would you feel? Chucks Party

It would be fine to call in a copyright expert or some independant arbitrator, but I see no reason to continue bringing this up in a public forum.

-Agent1


[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 8:22pm

Yes Agent1 you are right this thread was started as a nice simple invitation
to a worlds anniversary party and Justin started the downward spiral that he
weaves so well. Just another thing he so cunningly does to provoke people to
take action against him. If he was smart he would keep his hands off the
keyboard and save face and stop trying to lie about everything, things that
aren't even true. I can assure you that if a copyright expert came in here
he would have to side with FriendPA just as AW has sided with her. Why?
Because as I stated before he allowed FriendPA to upload those objects to
her path, in essence giving her all rights to use those objects as she saw
fit for that world. Doesn't matter what happens after the fact. You can't
give someone something that is copyrighted then take it away from them after
it's already put to use. That would be like me making an ad for a major
company putting it on my hard drive then whether I sell it to them or give
it to them, if I allow them to use that ad and it gets from my hard drive to
their hard drive with my permission. I relinquish all rights to that picture
and then they have the rights to use it as they see fit. If I did not get
paid for it and there was no contract as such that is my fault not the fault
of company I made the picture for. It's no different than when you upload
anything to Geocities, same thing applies, any and all things uploaded to
their server becomes property of Geocities and you relinquish all rights to
them once you do that. Uploading anything to a website on any server means
you have given them the right to do what they see fit with them. Especially
the ones that are free. So it is stated as such, this is an example of the
TOS given by Geocities when you sign up for a free website they offer, 7.
CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO GEOCITIES
Yahoo does not claim ownership of the Content you place on your Yahoo
GeoCities Site. By submitting Content to Yahoo for inclusion on your Yahoo
GeoCities Site, you grant Yahoo the world-wide, royalty-free, and
non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt and publish the Content
solely for the purpose of displaying, distributing and promoting your Yahoo
GeoCities Site on Yahoo's Internet properties. This license exists only for
as long as you continue to be a Yahoo GeoCities homesteader and shall be
terminated at the time your Yahoo GeoCities Site is terminated. This means
that you own the copyright but you will not charge them a license fee to
reproduce anything you put on their server. They have the right to do with
the files on their server as they see fit. By Justin allowing FriendPA to
upload those objects to her OP he in essence has given her all rights to use
those objects as she sees fit. If you copyright something you must make it
clear to the person you are giving those rights to use the material or in
this case the objects on NYW. There were no limitations to their use and no
contract between them stating otherwise. He gave her full use of those
objects by allowing her to use them and upload them to a server with his
permission. It's no different than if you make an object and I buy it from
you, you can't come back a year later or even a month later and say well now
I want you to stop using those objects. Nope doesn't work that way, if you
gave it to me and whether I purchased it or not, you can't come back and
say, Hey Chuck stop using that object I gave/sold to you. If you were not
payed or compensated for it in a way that you deemed necessary before you
gave it to me, that's not my fault and you can't come back and tell me how
to use it once you have given it to me, those terms of use must be laid out
in writing before you give the object to me and state exactly the way it is
to be used otherwise it can be used in any manner I see fit and for as long
as I want to use them. Copyrightable works may also enter the public domain
if the copyright owner grants the work to the public domain. That right was
granted when Justin allowed FriendPA to upload them for public use in NYW.
If you know of an item that you would like to use that was created by
someone else and whose copyright has not expired, then the most prudent
course of action is to license the right to use that item from the copyright
owner.
For example, if I wanted to insert a graphic of Mickey Mouse on this page, I
would have to contact Walt Disney Productions and obtain a license to use
the Mickey Mouse image. The license would spell out how I could use the
image, how much I would have to pay to use the image, and any other
conditions and restrictions deemed relevant. That did not happen in this
case, Justin gave the objects to FriendPA to use on NYW with no strings
attached, FriendPA has also never profited from the use of those objects in
any way. This could also be a good case for fair use. So as you can see the
law states exactly what is or is not copyrighted and what the owner is
obligated to do to protect his or her works from being infringed. It is not
the responsibilty of the person that is being given the right to use them to
come up with the way the items are to be used it is up to the owner.
Henceforth those objects since there were no limitations put on them before
their transaction means FriendPA has not broken any copyright laws as far as
the law is concerned. Respectfully thinking and obtaining information on the
subject, Chucks Party


[View Quote]

Mar 12, 2001, 8:51pm

*snore*
--
Syntax
syntax at earthcorp.com
www.swcity.net

Mar 12, 2001, 11:16pm

[View Quote] I really think you can.


> That would be like me making an ad for a major company putting it on my hard drive then whether I sell it to them or give
> it to them, if I allow them to use that ad and it gets from my hard drive to their hard drive with my permission. I relinquish all rights to that picture
> and then they have the rights to use it as they see fit. If I did not get
> paid for it and there was no contract as such that is my fault not the fault
> of company I made the picture for.

If you make a picture "for" the company, it is essentially a work for hire and the company owns all rights to it.


> It's no different than when you upload anything to Geocities, same thing applies, any and all things uploaded to
> their server becomes property of Geocities and you relinquish all rights to
> them once you do that. Uploading anything to a website on any server means
> you have given them the right to do what they see fit with them. Especially
> the ones that are free. So it is stated as such, this is an example of the
> TOS given by Geocities when you sign up for a free website they offer, 7.
> CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO GEOCITIES
> Yahoo does not claim ownership of the Content you place on your Yahoo
> GeoCities Site. By submitting Content to Yahoo for inclusion on your Yahoo
> GeoCities Site, you grant Yahoo the world-wide, royalty-free, and
> non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt and publish the Content
> solely for the purpose of displaying, distributing and promoting your Yahoo
> GeoCities Site on Yahoo's Internet properties. This license exists only for
> as long as you continue to be a Yahoo GeoCities homesteader and shall be
> terminated at the time your Yahoo GeoCities Site is terminated. This means
> that you own the copyright but you will not charge them a license fee to
> reproduce anything you put on their server. They have the right to do with
> the files on their server as they see fit.

Ahh, but you must AGREE to these terms. They are not part of any law. If I was to create files and send them to a hosting company, they do NOT own them simply because the files are on their servers. I would have to sign (or agree to...) a contract that has a clause such as the one above.

>By Justin allowing FriendPA to
> upload those objects to her OP he in essence has given her all rights to use
> those objects as she sees fit.

Nope.


> If you copyright something you must make it clear to the person you are giving those rights to use the material or in
> this case the objects on NYW. There were no limitations to their use and no
> contract between them stating otherwise. He gave her full use of those
> objects by allowing her to use them and upload them to a server with his
> permission. It's no different than if you make an object and I buy it from
> you, you can't come back a year later or even a month later and say well now
> I want you to stop using those objects. Nope doesn't work that way, if you
> gave it to me and whether I purchased it or not, you can't come back and
> say, Hey Chuck stop using that object I gave/sold to you. If you were not
> payed or compensated for it in a way that you deemed necessary before you
> gave it to me, that's not my fault and you can't come back and tell me how
> to use it once you have given it to me, those terms of use must be laid out
> in writing before you give the object to me and state exactly the way it is
> to be used otherwise it can be used in any manner I see fit and for as long
> as I want to use them.

Under American law (the Berne Convention, actually if I recall correctly), EVERYTHING created by someone is already under copyright anyway. There is no need to file a notice to copyright it. I am assuming that FriendPA didn't pay a cent for the use of the objects, so what does s/he lose by not being able to use them? If it is such a problem, why not make your own set of objects?


> Copyrightable works may also enter the public domain if the copyright owner grants the work to the public domain. That right was
> granted when Justin allowed FriendPA to upload them for public use in NYW.

No, it was not. FriendPA was allowed to use the objects. There is no "public domain" about it.


> If you know of an item that you would like to use that was created by
> someone else and whose copyright has not expired, then the most prudent
> course of action is to license the right to use that item from the copyright
> owner.

Then why doesn't FriendPA do so?

> For example, if I wanted to insert a graphic of Mickey Mouse on this page, I
> would have to contact Walt Disney Productions and obtain a license to use
> the Mickey Mouse image. The license would spell out how I could use the
> image, how much I would have to pay to use the image, and any other
> conditions and restrictions deemed relevant. That did not happen in this
> case, Justin gave the objects to FriendPA to use on NYW with no strings
> attached, FriendPA has also never profited from the use of those objects in
> any way. This could also be a good case for fair use.

Just because someone never profits from something it isn't fair use.


> So as you can see the law states exactly what is or is not copyrighted and what the owner is
> obligated to do to protect his or her works from being infringed. It is not
> the responsibilty of the person that is being given the right to use them to
> come up with the way the items are to be used it is up to the owner.

If the owner wishes to revoke a right given to someone, they have every option to do so.


> Henceforth those objects since there were no limitations put on them before
> their transaction means FriendPA has not broken any copyright laws as far as
> the law is concerned. Respectfully thinking and obtaining information on the
> subject, Chucks Party

Read my above comments...


-Agent1


>
>
[View Quote]

Mar 13, 2001, 1:37am

So if I make an object or objects "for" a world how does that differ from
making a picture "for" a company, you would not then relinquish all rights
to it? There is also another problem. AW says that if objects that are used
in your name and cit# for bldg, those objects and the entire build are yours
until such time that your citizenship expires or is not renewed, then at
that point and only then do they become community property. Justin took a
bot into NYW and copied an entire city that wasn't in his name or cit#. This
is totally against AW rules. I have not been able to find anything that
agrees with your point about taking rights away once something is given.
Just because Justin did not give PA a license to use the objects, there are
things whether they are implied or intended because of what the person that
owns them does with them. If you put objects on a world that can be used to
copy them many times more over you can't possibly exspect them then at
anytime in the future to not be copied or then turn around and make them
impossible for someone to use. I have not found anything that gives someone
the right that made something to change their mind of what their intentions
were when they were given to someone else to use. If you can find something
somewhere in writing I would like to see the URL to it.
Chucks Party


[View Quote]

Mar 13, 2001, 2:24am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------A42FC0E2C0767EE2C4379315
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I know that this doesn't help in this case - too late - but I think
clear agreements should be made between object designers and world
owners, preserving the copyright and declaring the ownership.

For free objects this could be something like :

Everything you download from this page can be used in any
universe/galaxy/world without an individual agreement. By downloading
you become owner of the files. Feel free to give the files to others but
do not sell them, include them in collections that are sold or claim
them your work.

(I added this to my page after the trouble between NY and BW came up
last time)

For custom made objects it sure has to be different - but there should
be a clear agreement.
--------------A42FC0E2C0767EE2C4379315
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="vha.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Volker Hatzenberger
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="vha.vcf"

begin:vcard
n:Hatzenberger;Volker
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:oct31.de
adr:;;Bornheimer Strasse 15;Bonn;;53111;Germany
version:2.1
email;internet:vha at oct31.de
end:vcard

--------------A42FC0E2C0767EE2C4379315--

Mar 14, 2001, 12:34am

amen

--
news://awjbell.com
--
J B E L L
http://platinum.awjbell.com
G O I N G P L A T I N U M


[View Quote]

Mar 19, 2001, 2:07am

Ok seems no one knows the answer to my question but I have found the answer
and it's quite clear and simple.
(2)
A plaintiff is not entitled by virtue of this section to any damages or to
any other pecuniary remedy, other than costs, if it is established that, at
the time of the conversion or detention:
(a)
the defendant was not aware, and had no reasonable grounds for suspecting,
that copyright subsisted in the work or other subject-matter to which the
action relates;
(b)
where the articles converted or detained were infringing copies-the
defendant believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that they were
not infringing copies; or
(c)
where an article converted or detained was a device used or intended to be
used for making articles-the defendant believed, and had reasonable grounds
for believing, that the articles so made or intended to be made were not or
would not be, as the case may be, infringing copies.


This is why he will not win, He by giving those objects to FriendPA and
allowing her to use them on her world meant that he gave her the right to
use those pbjects and to copy them. So it says here, the person would have
to commit copyright infringement and be aware of the infringement for him to
collect lots of damages. Here it states if the person is unaware of any
infringement of the copyright then read (c) Justin will never get past (c)
he allowed her to use them which means she was not aware or was there ever a
contract made or license that stated how she could use them, he in essence
gave her full right with no limitations to the copyright of the objects by
allowing her to upload the objects to her path.


[View Quote]

Mar 19, 2001, 8:56am

Why don't you simply ask FriendPA what the situation is?

1 - Most of my objects begin with a copyright clause;
2 - FriendPA is aware that most of my objects have a copyright clause and if
they don't that I intended to put one in (as discussed when I was given FTP
rights to begin with);
3 - I had FriendPA upload files to the server and, once I had rights,
uploaded them myself for me to build with in the construction of Times
Square. That does not mean I gave permission to FriendPA to build with them
or use them, nor did she ask for that right;
4 - Once I saw there was no reconciliation after our arguement, I withdrew
my permission for FriendPA to be in possession of my files. Not only did I
state this to her many times over but re-inforced this by deleting (only) my
files off the server. Clearly this had no effect because FriendPA kept
further copies of my files on her local PC (again without my permission).
She then re-uploaded my files to a new server that I did not have access to.

Considering the above, obviously the legal points you raise do not preclude
legal action, including damages.

Now considering that
a) neither I nor (I assume) FriendPA, have asked for your opinion, and,
b) you are not nor have you ever been a lawyer, and,
c) you have had no experience in copyright law, and,
d) you do not have all the facts, and,
e) no-one is interested in this dispute except you, for seemingly the wrong
reasons,
why don't you mind your own business and stop rehashing this? The only
thing you achieve is perpuation of the hurt both FriendPA and I feel.

- Justin

[View Quote]

Mar 19, 2001, 9:39am

Can't you two snip a bit of unneeded text out of your replies? They are
getting quite large.

rolu

[View Quote]

Mar 19, 2001, 11:51am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------027CAF5298DDA97765862A7B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Different view could be (and that doesn't touch your copyright) :

3 - You uploaded the files to her server, and if no other explicite
agreement existed, that can be seen as a donation. As you kept your
copyright you did not loose anything but the ownership for this copy of
the objects.

4. would be irrelevant as of 3.

I don't take party although I tend to see it like that, but I'm no
lawyer, and most of us are not I bet. Couldn't you both continue this in
your private mails or telegrams? No one of you will get justification
here, the views are too different and no written agreement exists that
proves who is right and who is wrong.

And once the theme is gone, burry it and don't dig it out over and over
again.

[View Quote] begin:vcard
n:Hatzenberger;Volker
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:oct31.de
adr:;;Bornheimer Strasse 15;Bonn;;53111;Germany
version:2.1
email;internet:vha at oct31.de
end:vcard

--------------027CAF5298DDA97765862A7B--

Mar 19, 2001, 7:49pm

Justin if you had a brain you'd be dangerous, LOL Hope you have the money
for a lawyer to tell you you don't have a case because, you need it, LOL

Mar 20, 2001, 4:24pm

I noticed you hitting on Just In for his long messages.
I'm NOT going to take any sides on the issues that
Just In & Chucks Party are doing here... BUT dosen't that same
message you gave to Just In about snipping his messages also apply
to Chucks Party.
AND for that matter... Most everyone here who loves to see the
messages grow to some ungodly size...

<rolu <rolu.university at bigfoot.com> wrote in
<3ab5efe2 at server1.Activeworlds.com>:

>Can't you two snip a bit of unneeded text out of your replies? They are
>getting quite large.
>
>rolu
>
[View Quote]

Mar 20, 2001, 6:29pm

[View Quote] I'm not hitting anyone, just asking them politely.

> I'm NOT going to take any sides on the issues that
> Just In & Chucks Party are doing here... BUT dosen't that same
> message you gave to Just In about snipping his messages also apply
> to Chucks Party.

Yes, it does. Now look at my post again, and see that I said "you two". I
was talking to both Just In and Chuck's Party. So, what's your problem here?

> AND for that matter... Most everyone here who loves to see the
> messages grow to some ungodly size...

As you might have noticed, it's not the first time I ask someone to snip.
But the other people weren't posting messages with large parts of junk in it
right then, so I didn't talk to them.

rolu

>
> <rolu <rolu.university at bigfoot.com> wrote in
> <3ab5efe2 at server1.Activeworlds.com>:
>

Mar 20, 2001, 10:36pm

Um, WHO CARES, is someone using a 300 baud modem or something? :)

[View Quote] > I noticed you hitting on Just In for his long messages.
> I'm NOT going to take any sides on the issues that
> Just In & Chucks Party are doing here... BUT dosen't that same
> message you gave to Just In about snipping his messages also apply
> to Chucks Party.
> AND for that matter... Most everyone here who loves to see the
> messages grow to some ungodly size...
>
> <rolu <rolu.university at bigfoot.com> wrote in
> <3ab5efe2 at server1.Activeworlds.com>:
>

Mar 21, 2001, 8:03pm

[View Quote] Don't think so. But even then, it's wasted time/bandwidth (lots of people
are paying by the minute or even by the second), and it's also a very
annoying habit.

rolu

Mar 22, 2001, 6:35am

Well if bandwidth is an issue for you, get a decent newsreader that tells you
in advance the size of the messags. Other than that, as far as I am
concerned the folks who run a newsgroup should say what the size limit is.
Everyone else can go soak their head. :)

Mar 22, 2001, 4:52pm

[View Quote] My newsreader tells me what the size is - but I download everything at once
and read and reply offline. Some people have to pay by the minute, you know.
Also, I did not talk about a size limit. I don't care if a post is 30kb, if
there is 30kb of usefull text in it. I *do* have a problem with 30kb posts
which contain only 1 or 2kb of usefull text because the people who wrote
them are too lame to snip the unrelevant parts. This doesn't only make them
large - even more annoying is that it clutters the posts (e.g. when you have
to scroll eight pages to get to the actual reply). Come on, how difficult is
it to select a bunch of text and hit delete? It makes your posts easier to
read and saves other people's bandwith (and therefore also some time and
money).

rolu

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