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Nov 6, 2003, 10:50am

SW Comit and Bowen this is your opinion... mine is different. I really care
about the exact preservation of AW. Then if AWI decides to do a vote, I know
what I'm going to vote. Can't change my mind ;-)

-Weizer
"bowen" <ten.sardna at newob> a écrit dans le message de news:
3fa9a1ed at server1.Activeworlds.com...
[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 11:27am

yeah, not to mention, any of us are free at any time to leave AW, if we do
not like it, then we are not bound here like slaves... I appreciate all that
AWI does for us, so saying they suck is not only a direct insult to them,
but to the community here as well...

J

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Nov 6, 2003, 12:08pm

[View Quote] I expect to *see* them falling all over themselves to support third party
developers. If they are a small company or can't afford to hire the tech
staff to enhance the product, they should be focussing on the things that
will allow others to do so ex post facto.

I know I don't speak for everyone, but for a lot of people AW is half a
product, and the various bots, op path systems etc. that are available
are the other half.

If it were not for 'bots', I would not be here. If it were not for 'bots',
a lot of worlds would be sitting there empty because the owner accidentally
wiped out all the objects and have no way to seed anything.

So whatever else they do, I keep my eye on their actions toward
developers and what features they add to expand the possibilities for
third party extensions, because at least half of the cool stuff takes
place outside the browser in the domain of the bots.

Do you use a Xelagot? Do you *rely* on your Xelagot?

I do, and I don't want to hear rumours that he was not invited to be
in a beta program. If my Xela stops working in some future release,
then my AW stops working and I'm not stupid enough to assume
that it was any fault of Alex's if something breaks. I will become one
of the AWmish, and in all likelihood will just go play with one of the
other VR systems with a more 'legitamized' developers program.

The same thing goes for any of the other bots that exist now. People
use them, and they become irreversably 'part of'' AW, and AW should
think twice before considering those things as 'external'. It's not the
perception of people who work inside AW that matters, it's the
perception of the people who fork out money to use the stuff that
matters, and my perception at least is that the thrid party stuff that
I use every single day is just as important and just as much a part of
"Active Worlds" as the browser and the server.

The same applies to avatars, objects and textures. I know the latest
release 'broke' some things with regard to masked textures that
were not the same aspect ratio as the textures they masked, and it's
not that the things broke that is the issue, but that it wasn't until full
release that it was discovered.

In case it sounds like I am opposed to change, I most definitely am
not. I just want to know what is coming, so I can prepare for it,
and if something changes suddenly, and it breaks things, then I get
upset as do most people. If I know it's going to break beforehand,
but for a good reason and with additional benefits after it is fixed,
then I'm usually all for it.

But I want to know that if someone who has made some bots I
use is still actively developing them, and is willing and has offered to
make sure that their stuff will work with any changes AW is planning,
that AW didn't turn them away because their name didn't come out
of the hat.

It's really not important who the person is, or what their demeanor.
They might be the biggest asshole in the world (no Alex.. I don't
think that at all), but this is business, and business is about dealing
with assholes be they customers, suppliers or partners with a cheery
smile and a "Thanks for choosing Active Worlds!".

Spite has no place in a business.

Your beta program doesn't work very well ENZO. Your developer
program is just an SDK and some documentation. Your support email
answers question, but it would be better even if only for appearances
if you perhaps had a developers at email address.

Your opaque selection method for beta's is pretty bad. At least put
some visibility into the selection methodology. As I ranted above,
hearing Alex was not included and hearing Strike bragging all the
time about his insight into your product roadmap is really not
making me feel good about investing time. money or effort into
Active Worlds, but those are the only things I see.. I see nothing
coming from Active Worlds officially to challenge those perceptions.

I see a wishlist that appears to be just a one way mailslot that goes
to /dev/null

I hope you surprise me :-)

This assholes rant is now concluded.

PS - I love you too ENZO!

Nov 6, 2003, 12:14pm

FYI I also was not "invited" to the latest BETA program I've been a developer for over 25 years.....Been on the BETA program all along..... this was the first time I was not involved, and took that as a message that developers are not wanted and not needed around here.....pfffft



[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 2:02pm

[View Quote] Not possible to look the same, unless you use AW with 0.x version browser,
preferably on a 486 PC with Windows 3.1 and no 3D card ;)
http://mauz.info/awpics.html#digigardener

--
Mauz
http://mauz.info

Nov 6, 2003, 2:04pm

[View Quote] But there is no beta program yet :) 3.5 alpha though, with around 12 testers besides AWI.

--
Mauz
http://mauz.info

Nov 6, 2003, 2:50pm

3.5 allows for offsetting terrrain altitude

This does not affect the fact that many builds will zbuff with the terrain.
Also, many builds are underground and would be lost unless the owner went
through and put a hole it the terrain.

I would suggest that terrain is just to much trouble in a prebuilt world.


E

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Nov 6, 2003, 2:52pm

There are 150 Million builds You really think it makes sense to query ALL
of them???

Yikes

E

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15




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Nov 6, 2003, 4:45pm

Ah yes...the good old days. ;) Everything was so simple back then.

Builderz
http://www.3dhost.net

[View Quote] > Not possible to look the same, unless you use AW with 0.x version browser,
> preferably on a 486 PC with Windows 3.1 and no 3D card ;)
> http://mauz.info/awpics.html#digigardener

Nov 6, 2003, 6:33pm

Cyclic aw_cell_next running on the local connection... shouldent take *too*
long... ud need to defrag your HD's afterwards like...

- Mark

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Nov 6, 2003, 6:42pm

Oh but no, it makes absolutly no sense to query em all!

- Mark

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Nov 6, 2003, 6:42pm

I set it and unset it myself

E


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Nov 6, 2003, 6:44pm

Skybox will not allow the same definiton as the panorama. It will just look
blurry

I tried it


E


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Nov 6, 2003, 6:45pm

Ya'll might see the problem now


E


[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 6:52pm

huh?

: ) "Thanks for choosing Active Worlds!"

I really don't quite understand... are you commending AWI for having an SDK
that allows people like Alex to write Xelagot or are you upset because
Xelagot has bugs? Or is it just AW that is buggy?

And we chose are betas from a group of experienced users who run a variety
of specs and connections. They are very good at sending in the reports and
assisting to eliminate bugs.

Do you want to be on beta?


E
oh




BTW





Iluvu2




;)



[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 6:52pm

the latest beta being...?


E



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Nov 6, 2003, 7:03pm

[View Quote] > 3.5 allows for offsetting terrrain altitude
>
> This does not affect the fact that many builds will zbuff with the terrain.
> Also, many builds are underground and would be lost unless the owner went
> through and put a hole it the terrain.
>
> I would suggest that terrain is just to much trouble in a prebuilt world.

Not with AW due to the ground. Put it at the _exact_ same level as
ground (and allow for people to edit it with objects) this will be fine
and will not really damage someone's builds at all unless they
purposefully put the build half above and half below.

It really has no problem with being implemented. Terrain does not mess
with anything unless the person specifically decides to edit it.
Therefore, it does not destroy antiquity. It's not double sided like
the current ground is... although I don't see how that's a problem.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 7:06pm

[View Quote] > That'd be quite expensive I think...according to AW Mapper, the database
> when uncompressed is 174 GB. It compresses to about 2 GB. I'm not sure
> what the server use, compressed or uncompressed...

Well, 200 GB Hard drives are not exactly wallet busting for a company
that should be producing any profit above $500. That said, it shouldn't
use one consecutive file anyways.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 7:09pm

[View Quote] > Ya'll might see the problem now

Companion world. AWClassic\ClassicAW. You don't want to make a new
world for the new features, you want to move the present AW to an older
world and keep the newer features in the standard AW. It works out
better this way, newer people won't get confused... but if you feel
really adament about it, NewAW works just fine.

I'm sure you could spring for the 200 GB Hard drive to get for it if you
look hard enough. Take a $500 out of your checks for a year or something.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 7:14pm

[View Quote] > the latest beta being...?

Beta means untested product, usually. Alpha just means the beta of the
beta. You can technically refer to the Alpha-tests as Beta-test^2, or
as most people do, Beta.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 7:20pm

[View Quote] > FYI I also was not "invited" to the latest BETA program I've been a developer for over 25 years.....Been on the BETA program all along..... this was the first time I was not involved, and took that as a message that developers are not wanted and not needed around here.....pfffft

You were there toward the end of the 3.4 betas with the rest of us
right? You saw practically everyone that really was not qualified to do
beta testing show up. You had people that were on the beta simply to be
on the beta. People who complained because the beta didn't have some
features that they should have *cough*linuxbrowserwithacertainsomeone.
It got really bad.

I guess they picked the handful that didn't do many bug reports (and
thus wouldn't bug the developers to fix things since it's alpha) and
they picked the few that they felt were least qualified on offering a
solution -- thus fitting into the not bugging developers as much.

That's just my hypothesis as to how it was organized. Yes, Andras is on
the alpha... but that doesn't mean the rest of the list was chosen
wisely. What do you think BB?

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 7:46pm

Remember these are not ordinary comsumer hard drives though. They're used
in Sun Servers =O
Regardless, your right, it's a capital investment that all businesses have
to make every now and then.

[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 7:49pm

Please re-read paragraph 4 of my rant, lol. Don't draw all your analysis
from this newsgroup, this is a fraction of the community after all.


[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 7:50pm

[View Quote] > Remember these are not ordinary comsumer hard drives though. They're used
> in Sun Servers =O
> Regardless, your right, it's a capital investment that all businesses have
> to make every now and then.

Well, even so, It really can't be that expensive anymore. If 120 gigs
of a consumer Hard drive is only about $120 then I'd say it can't be
much more than $500.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 7:56pm

I guess it's blury because it's too short to fill that much space a sky box
uses. Someone would have to an identical higher resolution one, that
extends the mountains a bit using the same theme =O


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Nov 6, 2003, 8:03pm

And, besides, what Weizer was concerned about was only *part* of the things
Alphaworld could use to expand. I've seen you do this before, Enzo. If one
improvement may not work, you seem to throw them all away.

[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 8:15pm

[View Quote] > I guess it's blury because it's too short to fill that much space a sky box
> uses. Someone would have to an identical higher resolution one, that
> extends the mountains a bit using the same theme =O

Exactly, it's not that it would look bad, it's that he's trying to use
the _exact_ image. Keep the style the same and update. Just make it
look reasonably close.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com
Give me ideas.

Nov 6, 2003, 8:51pm

Recently I was notified of an *update* via the browser's update feature. I
was not notified in advance that this *update* would be coming, nor was I
told in advance what the *update* was. Even when I'd accepted the *update* I
didn't have any idea what I was updating!? Therefore, since 3.5 is not
available ... one would assume that it's a pre-3.5 beta *update*, as I did.

Also, when I went to the download page in aw I see a link to the beta ng but
guess what ... it's not active. Perhaps you should put something on the page
that indicates the beta ng is currently inactive and you will notify when it
is?

I would like to know though, what is the criteria for being an alpha, verses
beta, tester? How many alpha testers are there? Just curious...

LNH



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Nov 6, 2003, 8:57pm

I do! LOL *Pick me, pick me*. I'm on a satellite (two-way) connection ...
bet you don't have many of those alpha/betas!?

Lady NightHawk



[View Quote]

Nov 6, 2003, 9:40pm

I know of quite a few that are on a two-way. Most of them in Third-world
countries and/or Middle Eastern countries...

At anyrate, does anyone else find it 'comical' (for lack of a better word)
that AWI is just denying, what seems to be a pretty large out-cry, what they
want? Shoot, even God gave in to the Jews when they wanted meat! Come on E N
Z O, if God can give in, so can you.
Granted that while the meat was still fresh in their mouths they were
swallowed into the earth, I'm sure AW will join me in blatantly ignoring
what will surly blow up in our faces ;)


Where's our meat!


LF


P.S.
I in no way take responsibility
for the blasphemous remarks
that will follow this post and
in nooooo way was comparing
E N Z O to God or any other entity
that one might hold holy.

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