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Jul 31, 2006, 9:29pm

I've not played with zones yet, so I'm talking on a subject I know little
about here (beyond what's written in the online help). The tower example
raises an interesting possibility - one of setting the *necessary*
visivisibility in a zone. For enclosed spaces, such as in a tower stair-well
with no windows, caves, etc. Why not enable the world builder to tell the
browser that there's not point in considering objects outside the zone. Is
this effectively what the far fog distance does? I don't know.

Grims


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Jun 24, 2001, 1:07pm

Kah,

Are you're newsgroups available 24/7 now? Otherwise, its just irritating
with them not being available when you want to check them.

Grims


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Aug 28, 2001, 9:19pm

The truth of the matter is that, unfortunately for Builderz, a lot of people
DO know that Lanezeri works for Stuff-X since he harps on about it so much
(that's what you get for resetting your ignore list!!).

I'm with Andras on this one. If you've got any sense Builderz, you'll reign
the guy in or kick him out.

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Sep 4, 2001, 9:06pm

Hey people, can we restrict this to ONE newsgroup please? ... rather than
all of them? The topic is kinda tired now.

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Sep 2, 2001, 11:09am

Internal Affairs point was that this whole DAMNED thread is duplicated in
all 6 (SIX) newsgroups because (a) "r y a n" started the thread across the
whole lot and hence the fully earned label of "retard" and (b) everyone
insists on REPLYING to all six newsgroups.

This crap is the reason I don't subscribe to this particular newsgroup. SDK,
Bots and Worldbuilders are the only ones I keep an eye on because they're
the only ones I care about and yet this kind of crap still filters through
to the focussed ones! Geesh!

Personally, I don't give a s**t about this guys insecurities or his little
tiff with Eep. And just for the record ... apologising in a newsgroup isn't
a sign of maturity. I just see it as a weak attempt to sate his apparent
need for validation from the other members of the group.

Its pathetic!


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Dec 3, 2001, 12:02am

Surely its only a bit of fun ... not like anyones life depends on it. And
not a lot to do with world building either really.

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Dec 5, 2001, 7:30pm

I went in all the AV01 worlds (and let the whole download finish) with my
700MHz Win2000 laptop with an ATI Rage Mobility 8MB (yes, EIGHT Megabytes)
video card and all was fine - ran like a dog mind you, but it didn't crash.
Filling up the video cards memory isn't a (valid) reason for an application
to crash ... just hammer the poor PC. It was ok in Direct3D and software
mode (although as you can imagine the performance of the two are pretty
similar with this setup but those seven hardware lights look much better in
s/w mode). I went in just after it opened like 1,000,000 other people seemed
to do.

It won't be common to everyone because everyone is running different spec
machines, different versions of windows and having different applications
running at the same time. Who knows?

Grims


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Jan 15, 2002, 9:57pm

Doesn't anyone do anything unless they are forced to anymore? AW DO want the
support of the users ... WANT being the operative word here. Who the hell
wouldn't? ... but what sort of support have they EVER got from this frikkin
place??

So many people seem totally unprepared to look beyond their own perceived
loss to actually realise that just maybe they LIKE ActiveWorlds and WANT it
to continue ... maybe not in the guise as they know it today but there never
the less ... and support its moves forward.

You say "AWC doesn't give a shit" ... I say "Clearly, too many people do not
value AW enough to give a shit back".

Grims.

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Jan 15, 2002, 10:28pm

Me too ... but deleted it without reading it. Another kill file to add him
to.

Oh, and BTW ... Like the newsflash!

Grims

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Jan 17, 2002, 12:58am

Pretty much ... but I was sticking to the terminology from the previous
thread :o).

Besides, its such a versatile word!

Grims

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Jan 17, 2002, 1:00am

Makes me mad ... and sometimes it shows. Nevermind eh?

Grims

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Aug 5, 2002, 5:16pm

Same thoughts here, although worded more like "well **** *** then you
****s".

The newsgroups are once again turning to crap because of small minded people
with "issues". Sad just ain't the word and I'm certainly not gonna miss it.


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Aug 6, 2002, 7:41am

Is MEDICADE the fizzy version then?

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Aug 6, 2002, 2:17pm

I guess my point was missed - that being that I don't care!

[View Quote] > ========================================
> "grimble" <grimble2000 at btinternet.com> wrote in
> news:3d4f99bc$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:
>
>

Nov 3, 2002, 2:58pm

What am I missing here?

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Nov 3, 2002, 3:05pm

I see ... the "weeee don't neeeed no steeeeenkin' looogic" train of thought.
Each to his own.

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Feb 7, 2003, 8:52am

Blocked sender more like.

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Feb 7, 2003, 6:54pm

Aww crap! You posted this in here too??

My poor little over-filled ignore list ... gonna need a new one soon, this
one is getting worn out!

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Nov 16, 2000, 1:05pm

Thing is, what you have probably just accomplished is to extend this thread
with a response from Eep, when you could have just left it there.

Grims


[View Quote] Maybe you think starting a thread about Eep was a little over the top, but
hey, I got reactions and made my point to Eep, so mission accomplished.

Nov 17, 2000, 7:44am

What would you suggest AW do to check whether an e-mail address is free?
They aren't going to keep track of EVERY e-mail host in the world are they?
One of the ISPs I use is free (ex-call charges). Does that count?

Grims

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Oct 27, 2000, 11:05am

OK, I'm probably looking to get some major grief from people over this, but
aren't "petitions" a little militant for a community like this?

I am quite new to AW and so won't be aware of the history, but there seems
to be some form of relationship that already exists between the user
community and the developers, but this appears to be fraught with antagonism
and "our side of the fence" mentality. I am assuming here that a joint
venture between Active Worlds (as a supplier) and the community (as the user
group) has already been tried in some form, as a formal channel to put new
ideas forward. Why did this fail for there to be a need for raising these
"petitions" in a newsgroup?

I have read a number of these "petitions" now, and the responses from the
developers, and it seems unnecessary to dive in with this agressive
approach. There are technical reasons why some things cannot be done EASILY,
but everything is a matter of technical infrastructure and (more to the
point) TIME and MONEY - THEIR MONEY. Ideas are just ideas until a solution
can be found. Before a solution can be found, the feasibility of the idea
needs to be assessed and whether, infact, a solution to that specific item
is what the real requirement IS. It is just as likely that the real answer
is to provide generic extensions elsewhere that implicitly provide the
requested features - and bring a whole lot more with it - with the only cost
to the user being perhaps a bit of a longer wait for the bit they wanted.

Roland and Agent1 appear to be on the technical development side for the
browser, and they have work to do to produce the next version. Anyone who
has worked in a serious development environment knows that one of the key
success factors for development projects, whether largescale or minor
releases, is the pre-planning and FROZEN specification of the work. Trying
to DEMAND new functionality 6 weeks before the delivery deadline isn't
realistically going to get much credance for (at least) two reasons.

(a) A "WE WANT THIS, WE WANT THIS" approach (as you will probably remember
from when you were a kid) tends to get ignored and often only results a good
slap for your troubles and less voice everytime you try it!

(b) AW will have planned the effort needed to be dedicated to the
development of v3.1 and defined what was going to be implemented and how.
Changing this at a late stage tends to cause more harm than good.

The "petition" concept being used in the newsgroups makes me think of people
with banners (walking in circles), but at least picket lines have some form
of spokesman (or spokeswoman, sorry). Its only when people are incited to
shout from the back of the hall that the process really breaks down. A
little structure on the community side (and obviously buy-in from AW) and
things happen a lot smoother.

From what I am reading, the ideas that are put forward are understandable
and reasonable, providing a section of the user community with appreciable
benefits. This will not be lost on AW, but, looking at it from their side,
reading some of the the posts and the tone in which they are written would
irritate the hell out of me and I would be inclined to resist the
suggestions on that basis. At the end of the day, its THEIR product and they
can, if they wish, do what they like with it. You, as the users, and your
views are important to them, since you are their life blood, but it is them
that (quite rightly) control what their product does and doesn't do and,
more to the point, HOW it does what it does. There are wider considerations
outside a single request for additional functionality.

AW have their own agenda for progressing the product as a whole (whether
people outside the organisation agree with that agenda or not) and the user
community is a vast source of ideas and sugestions for additional features
for the product. If these ideas can be channelled to AW in a constructive
manner without people feeling the need to "gang up" on them, there would be
a more constructive relationship there that would be more inclined to be
listened to.

If there isn't a formalised usergroup meeting or spokes-channel (is that
what "TechTalk" is?), then GET ONE! Whether it is a volunteer role or
someone inside AW, doesn't matter, just put something in place. From the
amount of posts I see from a lot of individuals in these news groups, a
number of people outside Active Worlds are very focussed on improving the
product and taking it forward. Although characteristic of "niche"
communities, this is something that all involved should try to maintain as
AW gradually breaks out of the niche market and goes more mainstream.

If there IS already a channel there for communicating ideas and issues to
AW, what can anyone expect to achieve from raising a "petition" in a
newsgroup? Since Roland & Co have already got their work cut out delivering
v3.1 on time, I think it would be in everyone's best interests for him and
hist colleagues not to have to trawl though newgroups answering specific
items that could be dealt with in a consolidated manner.

Eep, I have visited The Hole and Cubed and was very impressed. From your
work there, and from your posts in the newsgroups and your web-site, you are
clearly very knowledgable in the Active Worlds environment and its
limitations/possibilities, and have many ideas for that may or may not
benefit AW as a product and an organisation. Due to what I have seen, I have
a healthy level of respect for you and your opinions (whether I agree with
them or not) so please don't take this as a direct attack. Considering the
content of your AW web-site, I know you will appreciate a good rant when you
see one :O). Also, this is not belittling your request for the single
object refresh, which has some healthy support. Its purely about this
"petition" approach. Yours was just the post I latched on to, 's all.

Now, as I said, I know I am opening myself up for a likely onslaught of
grief from people, but that's ok. Its healthy. I hope I don't make enemies
through this - that would be disappointing and unnecessary. Right now, I
feel for the AW guys and the bashing they get in here. If the relationship
is broken between the community and the developers, where would the users
stand then? Just where you stand with Microsoft products today. Nowhere!
(Just a thought).

Grims


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Oct 27, 2000, 11:38am

Sorry Agent1. My mistake.

Grims.

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Nov 11, 2000, 9:07am

I would have to agree. I am another one that has STARTED to read Eep's rant,
and ended up leaving to later. I went back when I had nothing better to do
one evening, since I'm interested in all views (as I am sure the students
are), but it was pretty excessive.

Its a shame that Eep feels the need to do this. Considering his work in The
Hole (and you can't deny, no matter how much you may hate him, that it IS
very impressive work!), I would have expected Epp to be a major player in
the community for positive reasons. As it stands, all that's happening is
that he's just grating on people, although it seems to have stopped
recently. I think Daphne summed it up quite well the other day in one of the
NG's somewhere.

Hopefully, Eep is taking a more constructive viewpoint on AW nowadays (or at
least within the NG's), allowing everyone to benefit from his knowledge.
Then perhaps he can start to repair the rift he is causing.

Eep, you could provide so much to so many people in terms of constructive
input and feedback into this whole thing. How about it?

I could have sent this directly (and privately) to Eep, but there were some
positive things I wanted to say to the group in the process.

Grims

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Nov 11, 2000, 4:20pm

You make a good point, but its just rediculous that it has to be like that.
Thing is that it people don't wan't Eep in their face the whole time. Its
sad. (Bear in mind that I just got slapped by him in another NG lol).

Like I said before, I can see that he could (and as you point out, perhaps
does) play a positive part in the NGs but I for one would certainly be a lot
more comfortable if it wasn't put forward in such a spoilt-brat-4-year-old
manner.

(The "rift" was just the difference between the people who recognise that he
has a part to play here, regardless of whether he's a serious pain in the
butt or not, and those who just out-and-out hate him.)

Grims.



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Nov 10, 2000, 8:28pm

This sounds like a popular utility fyrene. I must admit to being interested
myself.

Is there a web-site you could post it to - to save you having to e-mail it
all over the place (assuming that isn't gonna drop you in some trouble).

Grims


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Nov 12, 2000, 7:12am

See the first post in the thread


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Nov 14, 2000, 5:33am

Hmmmm. Good points and I agree with the sentiment. I stopped using HTML
tools once I learned to code the HTML directly for that exact reason - much
more flexible - but once you make that step, you inevitably move onto DHTML
and JavaScript and its not always that easy to make that cross-browser
compatible, especially while you're learning.

Perhaps a compromise here for AW web-sites is that the AW pages are coded in
a way that would correctly resize so they can be viewed properly within the
AW browser window without having to stretch it across the screen (although I
know alot of people don't use that)? Just a thought.

Gotta admit to being one of those people who hasn't got the hang of NS
layers yet for a start - I learned DHTML/JavaScript using IE and it looks a
real mess in NS, so I don't let people with NS into the site (just give 'em
a "sorry" page). Its a "private" site anyway (just as a way to learn the
coding and share some information with some friends) so that's my excuse
:O).

But, like I said, the sentiment is correct. Its just a shame that a platform
independant medium like the web isn't platform independant thanks to having
a number of totally different standards out there. A wonderfully abundant
public domain resource of information screwed up by corporate greed. Hmfph.

A lot of the books out there now on DHTML and JavaScript cover both the IE
and NS way of doing things, so if anyone if going to get one, check what
platforms it covers as well as the subjects.

BTW, I never found NS robust at all - not even on linux. Perhaps it's just
me, but it crashes more times than my ISP !! ;(

Grims.


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Nov 15, 2000, 12:35am

uh-oh. Guess its me then - but it only takes a couple of crashed for me to
lose patience with it.

Never mind.


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Nov 15, 2000, 4:05pm

Perhaps someone who knows the common ground between IE and NS could help him
out?

I would offer, but it ain't my strong point (as I pointed out earlier). At
least a few pointers to get him underway quickly. Inline frames are out, and
so are certain parts of the style sheets by the sound of it. Any web-links
anyone has got would be useful, as I would be interested too.

Grims


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Nov 15, 2000, 9:46pm

You can tell what browser they're using from the document model in
javascript. For example:

<script language='javascript'>
if (navigator.appName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer")
top.location.href='<IE content home page>'
else
top.location.href='<HTML content home page>'
</script>

There are other application checks you can make. Can't remember what
netscape's name is (but I assume it contains "Netscape") and my book is
buried somewhere but it'll be on the web somewhere.

There's nothing stopping you enhancing the site for both at a later date,
but this will get you started on separating the content.

Grims


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