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Jun 7, 2001, 8:54pm

Feel free to cut and snip. Like I said, I won't add it back later.

As far as what goes on in other countries, I respect their leaders actions
to do so as they fit. I am in the USA, and there isn't a law I know of that
states "Those found not cutting and snipping text from Newsgroups will be
hung on sight". It just isn't there, I am sorry.



[View Quote]

Jun 7, 2001, 9:27pm

You have NO respect for other people in here, then, as you are not giving
them the fair oppurtunity to look through all of your posts and comments on
what you want to talk about.

God, are you so thickheaded and selfish? I know you aren't, but yet, you
are...

People from Britain and the rest of Europe don't HAVE a choice of free phone
minutes or internet time because of a bunch of different factors totally
unrelated to them. You could at least show some newsgroup etiquette in here
if you want to be treated as an equal. God, don't abuse and be so ungrateful
of the rights and priviledges that you and the US have (and really don't
deserve most of the time) and show some respect to the rest of the posters.
People like Mauz and the like are some of the most informative people of the
newsgroup chain who can voice their opinions and who knows, maybe help you
(although it seems you don't need help, you just need to blow off excess
steam or something).

No, there is no law against cutting and pasting, but it's called etiquette.
Just like there isn't any specific law to spit on an old grandmother or
drive over squirrels and birds. Show some ettiquette, man. It doesn't take a
lot of work or effort, and it really gets you farther even in a horrible
crusade of ignorance and flaming.



Nornny

[View Quote]

Jun 7, 2001, 9:35pm

Like I said before a few times, if you wish to cut posts (which you aren't
doing yourself as to set an example of), I can assure you I won't put them
back in.

[View Quote]

Jun 7, 2001, 11:36pm

In no disrespect to your contribution, I am in Britian and enjoy unlimmited
Internet connection and free telephone calls.

Although I can agree that this service might not be fully utilised by some,
it is available to those area's that have cable. In addition many enjoy free
call after 1800 GMT.


[View Quote]

Jun 7, 2001, 11:53pm

I have to agree with mongo on this you shouldnt post chat be it public or
whisper with out consent but marcus is corect porno of any sort even so
called art i suspect the novel she refers to is what i have heard called a
scifi porno its a disgusting mix.
Im sorry but i dont think this type of thing should be in aw not in public
worlds
[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 12:09am

Thanks for your support regarding the porn issue. As for posting the
conversation which took place in a public world, it is my understanding Tech
Talk with Roland, among other possible events logs chats and posts them as
well for people to read within the Active World's community.

If it is a wrong, then Active Worlds is doing it themself.



[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 12:47am

Let's put it this way:

You are sitting in a restaurant and chatting with someone about an article they wrote
in the local newspaper. Now let's say, for some twisted reason, you decide to record
this conversation on a pocket recording device. You then go to a local radio station
and have them broadcast the conversation, in full, to the entire town.

The restaurant is a public place, no one is disallowed from entering. People could
have easily overheard your conversation if they were bothering to pay attention. Does
that mean that you have the right to broadcast this conversation to people who have
no business hearing it in the first place? I think not.

You don't do that sort of thing in the real world, and you don't do that sort of
thing in AW either. It's called "common courtesy". Do you even have any?

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Makes him wonder how much Marcus actually gets out and "interacts" with real
people...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jun 8, 2001, 12:52am

And I ask you to read my post. I wasn't referring to this specific situation, but to
the porn issue in general. And nowhere did I say "Because a kid put it up means we
shouldn't do anything about it" As I've said before, I do believe porn is an issue
that needs to be dealt with. However, we've heard your argument a million times
already and we got the point. Can you just drop it already?

And before you go saying "Then why do people reply to my posts?", it was *you* who
posted this conversation of yours without *any* provocation from us, so don't tell me
that *we* are the ones who need to drop it. As many people have suggested, if you
care so much about removing porn from AW, then let your actions speak for you and
join GET or the PKs. Only then will this become more than just talk. Only then will
you truly be making a difference.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
For actions speak louder than words, we agree...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jun 8, 2001, 1:01am

I don't use the mic on voice chat programs, been that way since 97 when I
tried out Mplayer's service. Why? cause I don't want my voice recorded.

When I am in public settings, use your restaurant as an example, I don't say
things I don't want copied or transliterated into some other format. As
common courtesy, I suggest you do the same.

When people connect to the internet, they fail to realize that they are
exposing themself just as if they were out in a public restaurant and people
overheard their conversation. If others over see us chatting here, there is
nothing to stop them from copying and sending it to friends, etc....

That's just the way it is. There is a copy and paste option within Windows.
If you don't want your text to be copied and pasted, don't type it. Take
responsibility for your actions.

As this relates to Active Worlds, and as common courtesy to those others who
respect the rules of not displaying pornographic material, I do it by not
posting porn in public areas and I post information to the communities I
know of who might be effected by it so they can become better informed.

I hope this helps everyone in the end as a whole, despite the short term
disputes which arise out of misunderstandings.

[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 1:08am

I posted it and people asked me questions like you are doing. Correct me if
I am wrong, but this newsgroup does facilitate questions and answers doesn't
it? That's why I respond. If you are reading this and you don't want a
response, then don't respond.

I am active in "Active" worlds, and I respond.

As for GET and PK's, I went them with no success during the month of April.
I then emailed Tom at activeworlds.com and he stated recently that they
appeared to decide that pornographic material was ok in their public world.

I went to the servers holding the pornographic material, and 2-3 weeks later
in May, the account was completey closed resulting in static images where
this person who referenced the material.

and with that, that's about it.

[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 1:14am

Yo, fuckmunch, this is off-topic and you didn't even keep the old subject in your rewritten subject. Quit being a twit...or face moderation.

[View Quote] > In no disrespect to your contribution, I am in Britian and enjoy unlimmited
> Internet connection and free telephone calls.
>
> Although I can agree that this service might not be fully utilised by some,
> it is available to those area's that have cable. In addition many enjoy free
> call after 1800 GMT.
>
[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 1:47am

I still have to say that the GOReans are not as sick as some people might
think they are. I remember a time that i told someone that i wished
they could create some laying down avatars and some sequences to go
along with the laying down avatars...
So you would hop into bet... BOY & GIRL or Girl & Girl...
Or in the case of us two nice people... Guy & Guy hit the bed...
And as soon as we are in bed... We switch to the avas that are laying down
in bed or on top of the bed... BUT we would be laing on the bed...
And we could click on the movements for the avs that were laying down...
Love, Sex, Bedplay1, Bedplay2, Roll, Beddance1, Beddance2, Bedhappy...etc.
And create a red light district in both NewYork world & Broadway world...
Not to mention all the GOReans would simply DIE for something like that...
BUT it was one of my hopes that someday some smart person could create
something like that for most everyone to use if you jump, pop, move,
teleport to one of those worlds that had those avatars...
Now if i can say that here in the open NGS... I should be able to say
that the GOReans are NOT all that sick. To me they make perfect sense...
The only thing that is missing though... Is that there should be
more guys that are slaves as well & Masters over the slaves guys....
Then i would have no problem in finding a HOMESTONE in one of the GORean
worlds in a flash.
SO... {To show some people that i have gained certain info...]
I Bid All of you A nice day or night and Farewall...
[The GORean way of saying bye].


chucks party <Chucks_Party at hotmail.com> wrote in
<3b1f1386 at server1.Activeworlds.com>:

>My God those Goreans are a bunch of brainwashed sickos, LOL Unbelieveable
>really that people can be so prehistoric like, lol But you see how Sassy
>tries to justify having porn on a public build world by trying to say she
>has seen death pictures, but death pictures as long as they aren't nude or
>real pictures with real blood and are not sexually explicit are not illegal,
>porn is. And if I remember correctly there are also signs posted at WildAW's
>GZ saying porn will be removed from that world if anyone reports it to
>Tom at activeworlds.com
>and I post the deffinition of pornography again for those of you who are
>still unclear what it is...........
>
>Main Entry: por·nog·ra·phy
>Pronunciation: -fE
>Function: noun
>Etymology: Greek pornographos, adjective, writing about prostitutes, from
>pornE prostitute + graphein to write; akin to Greek pernanai to sell, poros
>journey -- more at FARE, CARVE
>Date: circa 1864
>1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to
>cause sexual excitement
>2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is
>intended to cause sexual excitement
>3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick
>intense emotional reaction <the pornography of violence>
>
>This is your brain, this is your brain reading the deffinition of
>pornography, is there any question about what it is now? Textures or
>pictures with nude women or men wether they are drawn or sitting in a chair
>getting their picture taken is pornography, I don't care how AW.com wants to
>justify it, it is what it is. I know people are going to call it art, and
>yes I will agree with you that pornography is an art form no doubt, but it
>is still pornography.

Jun 8, 2001, 2:29am

Just because you have the right (because its out in the open) or the
ability, doesn't mean you should. It's reasonable and customary to get
permission - similar to quoting someone in print.
~Syli~

[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 2:38am

Tell that to Active Worlds when they log chat sessions such as Tech Talk
with Roland.

And then tell that to AOL who logs chats.
Tell that to the maker of Power Tools who has a log option for chat in AOL.
Tell that to the whole irc group of users who log chats.
Tell that to the makers of irc chat programs.
Tell that to all programmers who make a text chat program whereby people can
log chats.

What you are saying doesn't really address morals, but more of a way to
attack me for bringing something to people's attention which you appeat to
not like.

I am doing a courteous act and notifying the community which I am part of
about pornographic material found in Active Worlds. People have shown
support in here and in chat programs including Active Worlds of my actions.
If I held it to myself and didn't bring it out to the open, it wouldn't be
addressed nor would it make me feel like I am doing anything to help the
problem get fixed.

As for your report analogy, I am not here to get a grade nor am I trying to
take credit for originality of 100% of the post. That is what people do
when they copy other people's works and put them in a report. They get 100%
of the grade, I am not. Whoever talked should have the credit. Nothing was
taken out of context, and it was raw data just like the logs mentioned here.


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 2:54am

Please - it's getting late - we got any Europeans or Australians to step in
for the overnight shift with this chucklehead?

Folks - he's delusional. He's on a mission from God. Don't bother trying to
talk reason to him - the sheer volume of his posts points to him liking to
read his name in print. He's prolly sprouting a chubby even as we speak. He
don't need pornography in a pict3, he's getting off on all the attention
here.

Buh-bye, say hello to Mr kill-filter.

[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 6:53am

Well I am going to have to agree with Marcus on this one. If people are
willing to say something to you then they are always at risk that what they
have said is being recorded. It is a part of this program and every other
chat program on the net. When a PK asks me for chat logs or the tgrams
someone has sent me, I don't go running to the person that sent them and
say, Can I please give your chat or tgrams in my logs to a PK? lol Don't be
ridiculous, I send them to the PK without the persons consent, why, because
all conversation and all tgrams are known to the user as possible ways of
recording what they have to say. That prior knowledge gives any and all
Citizens the right to use that as evidence or information regarding
something that took place in a conversation. Marcus is not the first to do
it in this NG and won't be the last, but for some reason this is the first
time I have seen anyone take any kind of slack over it cause the person that
had the porn did not like him posting it, LOL I don't see any surprise
there, of course they aren't going to like it but it is well known that
chats and tgrams are logged and recorded and can be used for or against you.


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 6:56am

Did not know you are the activeworlds newgroup moderater. Lets see, Facts
are not allowed, but swearing is. Right I have it.

At least your example will show any new member the right way to conduct
themselfs.


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 7:09am

Wiz just block him like I did, it's easier than having to read his filthy
mouth.


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 7:48am

Also, I just realized this. People don't know who is behind the screen they
type. Thethe sender can telegram to one screen name thinking only 1 person
who is typing is talking to them privately, but there could be a group of
people in the room reading the telegram from the sender.

Should everyone close their eyes while the person typing gets the sender's
permission? LOL

[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 8:09am

[View Quote] I wanted this kind of stuff years back before I realized that cybersex was boring. Please get a life.

> So you would hop into bet... BOY & GIRL or Girl & Girl...
> Or in the case of us two nice people... Guy & Guy hit the bed...

No comment, ya damn fruit.

> Love, Sex, Bedplay1, Bedplay2, Roll, Beddance1, Beddance2, Bedhappy...etc.

And marcus thinks PORN is bad? His own damn ally is getting obscene.

> And create a red light district in both NewYork world & Broadway world...

Has anyone ever told you that we don't want to ever hear either of those world names again?

> Not to mention all the GOReans would simply DIE for something like that...

If I understand them properly (Yes, I try), NO.



> The only thing that is missing though... Is that there should be
> more guys that are slaves as well & Masters over the slaves guys....

Soooo now you are telling us that a certain percentage of them must be homosexual for you to approve completely? *rolls eyes*


> SO... {To show some people that i have gained certain info...]
> I Bid All of you A nice day or night and Farewall...
> [The GORean way of saying bye].

I thought Goreans (The first three letters should not be caps idiot) didn't appreciate 12 year olds hangin out with em.

Jun 8, 2001, 8:37am

Tech Talk is posted by our fateful community member, Mauz. It IS done with
AWCOM's consent, and those logs aren't spammed or copied into the newsgroup
each week. They're just there, on Mauz's website, for everyone who wants to
to read. And unlike your chats, we want to read the Tech Talk logs. She
never uses them to twist someone into a bad, she never uses them to bring up
topics or anything, she uses them for the SOLE purpose of helping and
informing others. maybe you should try that one day, because you're not
really informing us at what you're trying to get at in responding and
creating all these threads even though, as you yourself even stated,
repeated mostly everything you wanted to tell us here already.

As with any newsgroup, we really don't hate you, I hope you know. Well, not
a lot of us who disagree with you. We're just fed up that you're starting so
many wars with every word of disagree-ence. I personally would wish you can
help respond to other threads and do something around here that's not
related to porn, so we can get to know more of how you work (you must admit,
you ARE an interesting character). I mean even Eep, in all his
repetitiveness, never thrives on one topic. Be a jerk, but be a universal
one. :) I know everyone else here is. lol.

Nornny

[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 8:39am

uh HELLO! I cut off everything except the post that I was responding to.
THAT is a good way of responding and still having a reference. You don't
need to cut off the whole previous post, but down to something that can be
easily referenced yet small in size. It's a give an take, not a tug of war.

Nornny


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 9:24am

"And unlike your chats, we want to read the Tech Talk logs."

If you don't want to read them, DON'T!! That simple.

As for dragging this "porn" issue out, there were levels of understanding I
needed to establish, being new to here and developing my position I TOOK
MANY PRECAUTIONS before coming here, and I did many things to make sure that
I was not doing something Active Worlds didn't want.

Level 1 - observation stage

After seeing the porn, I discussed it with other citizens like myself. They
didn't like it and commented on it.

Level 2 - question stage

I went to Peacekeepers, gatekeepers, and teachers who help out Active
Worlds. I told the teacher who taught me how to build and he went to look.
He didn't do much after that but acknowledged it was there. He probably
Active Worlds wouldn't do anything about it.

Level 3 - first stage of reporting

I went to Peacekeepers first at Ground Zero in AW regarding the porn I
found. After being told there was nothing they could do since they are only
peacekeepers, I went to gatekeepers.

At this time in mid April, if my memory serves me correct Baron from
http://www.peacekeeper.net/specialrt.htm initiated contact with me and
telegrammed me.

We discussed briefly the process, though this person never contacted me
again nor did they advise me to fill out any GET form which would have been
obtained by clicking a trash can at Ground Zero in AW.

Level 4 - second stage of reporting

Realizing that Active Worlds may not be an organization to solely go on one
person's actions, I then went down my contact list and notified everyone
online at that time and about 2 other occassions about the incident I
encountered finding pornographic material and trying to find a way to remove
it. Eventually I gave the coordinates to people I knew were adults to the
best of my knowledge, and I received a suggestion from one contact who said
I should contact the server holding the porn.

Level 5 - third stage of reporting

I didn't want to report the porn to the server until I talked with the owner
of the world. It clearly shows Tom at activeworlds.com as the contact so I
emailed him through my AOL account.

Level 6 - fourth stage of reporting

Three strikes you are out of there. After getting no response from Baron,
Tom, or activeworlds after other citizens reported the pornographic
material, I finally emailed the server holding the porn. Within 2-3 weeks
after, I went back to the spot where the pornographic material was
referenced, and I found out the account was completely closed that held the
porn.

Since that, my actions have transferred to the newsgroup.

I have reported the material gone, I have found out Tom with another group
of people decided to keep the porn up, and I went to talk to the person who
made the build with porn in it.

If there are any more details I remember regarding this I will let you know
and I hope you are now informed of what I have been through.


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 9:40am

Sounds like you did everything humanly possible Marcus and I can understand
why you brought it to our attention in the NGs. It is AWCI's responsibility
to remove porn whenever present in Public build worlds, especially ones
owned by themselves. The fact that you had to go outside of AW to have it
removed is appauling. Like I stated in another post here, AWCI needs to
clean up their act first before they expect everyone else to, that means
standing behind their rules and enforcing them instead of turning a blind
eye to some and not to others which is exactly in my expierience is what
they are doing. That is why I had to take matters into my own hands just as
you did with this and start my SAW website. If AWCI would have taken care of
the problem months ago I wouldn't have had to take care of it for them. They
call these people friends but who needs friends like that when you have
enemies, lol I think they need to get a better set of friends or they are
going to continue to drag them down with them. It's very disfunctional and
has lots of codependancy issues, AWCI needs a good shrink, lol


[View Quote]

Jun 8, 2001, 10:35am

Sending chat logs to the PKs is one thing. That's just like handing your answering
machine messages over to the police when they have a warrant. That's fine because
they need that information for investigative purposes, and it's the law. (or, in AW's
case, in the Conduct Guidelines)

Posting a conversation here in this public forum that was only between two people
(with one other witness) for the sole purpose of continuing to stir the shit is
another matter entirely. That's just plain wrong. If that chat log had had any sort
of relevance to it, we probably wouldn't have come down so hard. But Flagg had
already given Marcus the response he was clamoring for; that should of been the end
of the story. But nooooo! Mr. Self-Righteous had to go and post a conversation, which
didn't shed any more light on the matter, (expect to throw the whole Gorean factor
into the mess and cloud the issue) and continue to drag this tirade out *far* longer
than necessary.

If Marcus wanted Flagg to read this conversation so badly, as the original post
header indicated, why didn't he just email it to him? I'll tell you why: Because he
doesn't care about porn, he doesn't care about "children", he certainly doesn't care
about Sassysha, nor does he care about us. The only thing he cares about, as far as I
can tell, is attention. And he's certainly received that, in spades.

Oh, and by the way, for any newbies in the crowd, *hint hint* the reason they post
logs of TechTalk is because it contains information that is useful to many other AW
citizens. TechTalk is a chance for AW citizens to find out what's going on in the
development of AW, and a chance for them to have their ideas and concerns heard. And
do you know *why* they are allowed to post these logs? Because they have Roland's
PERMISSION! (In fact, if I recall correctly it was his idea in the first place) Wow,
who'da thunk it?

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Some people just can't take a hint
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jun 8, 2001, 10:48am

Ok, now you see that? THAT was the information we were looking for! Why you didn't
post this information sooner is beyond me, as it would have saved you a *whole* lot
of grief!

That being said, it sounds like you managed to find quite a few of the "bad apples"
in each of the groups you visited. Any teacher that says "Active Worlds won't do
anything about it" obviously is just as new to the system as you were. Guess we need
to put that into the training quiz, eh kellee? :)

As for everything else, we've already beaten those subjects into the ground. My only
question is, why, after receiving your answer from Tom, go and find the person who
had the "porn" up in the first place? What possible purpose could you have for
posting that conversation here in a public forum? It's certainly not an informative
post, as we already knew that the people involved didn't consider it porn, and that
the account was removed from the server. So what new information could this
conversation possibly bring to the table?

[View Quote] --
Goober King
And why didn't you post this info before?!
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jun 8, 2001, 10:55am

Ok, that's great. You managed to get the account removed from the server. Now what?
For some reason, you seem to be fixated with this one incident. I haven't seen any
other posts saying "More porn in AW" or something like that. If you did something
like that, perhaps your "cause" would have a little more validity. But instead, you
choose to drag out this one specific incident and seem to think that somehow makes
you a champion of porn removal.

And as I've said before, if you don't like the system, go out there and *do*
something to change it. Sitting here in the NGs and complaining all day *isn't* going
to change anything, in case you haven't noticed. If you don't like the way GET or the
PKs are run, then get in on the action and maybe you can affect change on the inside.
It's one thing to complain about the system; anyone can do that. It's another thing
entirely to actually try to change the system. Which one are you?

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Beat the system!
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jun 8, 2001, 11:51am

[View Quote] >Level 2 - question stage
>I went to Peacekeepers, <snip>

How about mentioning one (1) PK name that you contacted? I asked you then, I asked you again couple days back, you never answered. Of course I asked all PKs, then and now...surprise surprise, no one ever heard of you except from your posts here.

>At this time in mid April, if my memory serves me correct Baron from http://www.peacekeeper.net/specialrt.htm initiated contact with me and telegrammed me.
>We discussed briefly the process, though this person never contacted me again nor did they advise me to fill out any GET form which would have been obtained by clicking a trash can at Ground Zero in AW.

After the first contact (which was as you correctly mentioned initiated by me, you never contacted PKs) there was no reason contacting you again. During that "brief discussion" I directed you to the GET web page for object removal (not a trash can click but the equally effective solution of passing you the URL), thinking the porn was in AW and after you specified the objects were located at WildAW, I directed you to abuse at activeworlds.com and tom at activeworlds.com as Flagg is the only person that deals with WildAW. I took some time explaining to you the concept of patrolled worlds, obviously you never understood or agreed with it since you continue to mention PKs and GET regarding this complaint. Btw I checked the site you were reporting and my conclusion (as a concerned citizen since PKs have nothing to do with WildAW and its content) was the same as Flagg's...not porn. As for the reason the web host removed the pics while AWCom didn't, refer to Moria's post on the difference of hosting vs displaying pictures, which like so many these days you probably failed to read and/or understand.

After the absurd "porn is compared to rape" reply on my last post I decided there was no point posting on this matter, I just thought some untrue remarks needed to be cleared up. This is my last post on this, email peacekeeper at activeworlds.com if you have further questions or suggestions. FYI PKs have helped removing porn from numerous sites in patrolled worlds either by simply asking the user who put it there to remove it or by directing the complaint to GET.

Good luck with your porn free Internet crusade. Looks like you are going to need it.

Baron

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