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Feb 20, 2001, 4:28pm

Great job on the objects and zobjects, but you now need to do something
else. Add texturemode lit to all walls and floors in aw, people are getting
confused and screaming about light not working. This is an easy task and I
even have the objects fixed myself with just a little bit of work.
(ultraedit is very cool)

This post will explode in 5 seconds...

Feb 20, 2001, 4:43pm

"self-destruct"!

[View Quote] > This post will explode in 5 seconds...

Feb 20, 2001, 4:52pm

[View Quote]
I really dont have time to do that myself - but if someone does want to, I
will update the objects if its done and sent to me.

Facter.
--
Fletcher Anderson
Active Worlds Support
Activeworlds.com
support at activeworlds.com

Feb 20, 2001, 5:33pm

Before you do that I have a friendly warning:

All objects will change its color/tone/whatever if you add the texturemode lit command to them (and they did not have it before). IMO it is a dangerous action!! Zillions of beautiful constructions will be screwed up badly!

Think about it! AW has 70,000,000 objects. If you change 1/10th of the objects statistically it will affect about 7,000,000 existing objects inworld!!!

I know everyone wants those nice features but .... I would rather introduce another sets of objects with those commands added!

Make sense?
I hope,
Andras


[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 6:20pm

tmlwalk001.rwx for example (simply add tml, short for texturemode lit to the
front of the filename.

--
Wing
This little spot is dedicated to my girl, Jessie.
AW Citizen 305004 "Wing"
bathgate at prodigy.net
eyemwing at teleport.com
ICQ #101207433
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 6:22pm

before 3.1 came out, I helped AWTeen texturemode lit all their walks and
floors. I'll happily download the objects and send them to you, as I can't
wait to see all the walks in AW lighted. :)

In fact, I'll do it right now. :)

Nornny

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Feb 20, 2001, 6:32pm

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
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you can easily see how it would (or will) look by using a local object
path with only these objects

nornny schrieb:
>
> before 3.1 came out, I helped AWTeen texturemode lit all their walks and
> floors. I'll happily download the objects and send them to you, as I can't
> wait to see all the walks in AW lighted. :)
>
> In fact, I'll do it right now. :)
>
> Nornny
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Feb 20, 2001, 6:39pm

Hey you folks....Please don't load those if it will mess up Mt. Bob created
by one of our AW Masters and Cy Recipients for that work.......Rjinswand:)

Feb 20, 2001, 7:50pm

I agree with Andras that the existing objects should NOT be changed. I like the idea of adding *additional* texturemode lit versions of the old walks, panels, etc.

As for what name to give the lit ones, I like Wing's idea of putting a designation in front of the new names. "tml" is fine, but I'd shorten it even more to just a lower case L. Using just "l" in front of the name would also fit them nicely into the alphabetical order of existing objects such as landa.rwx, which already can accept a light shining on it.

Lara

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Feb 20, 2001, 7:57pm

To make things simple for you Facter, I volunteer <sp?> to make the necessary changes on AW's objects (even on Yellow and Mars and etc) You know me - I'll write a tool to do that in no time :) This tool will add the "l" prefix to the object as Lara proposed (or how about adding it as a suffix? Like walk029hl.rwx? - maybe it will lead to confusion? It is up to you folks to pick the best naming method!) We should keep the names as short as possible (Darned BI!!)

Andras


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Feb 20, 2001, 8:48pm

"l" as a prefix...at the front, please. I kinda' like names that start with an "L". ;-)

Lara

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Feb 20, 2001, 9:15pm

[View Quote] No l, it looks too much like I. Will confuse people.

Try something else, add an a in front of everything. Or an n. Or something
like that.

rolu

Feb 20, 2001, 9:53pm

ugh guys, for some reason, nothing I posted from work today came through - I
wont go over it again, but will make sure they send in the morning - wait
til you read the posts, nothing is being changed at the moment =)

Facter.


[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 10:53pm

Don't take offense at this, Facter, as I'm sure you're doing as much as you can being AWCI's newest whipping boy slave/grunt/gopher and all, but how about asking the "higher-ups" (no comment) for more help since it's obvious there are MANY problems with AWCI-world objects that STILL have yet to be fixed and which used to be handled by Shamus. There are numerous transform errors in Mars avatars, missing textures, off-scale objects in Yellowstone, and, of course, objects not having "lit". It seems like once again AWCI is trying to wean help from its CUSTOMERS instead of simply fixing THEIR objects/worlds themselves...

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 10:56pm

If anything having objects reflect light more realistically will ENHANCE AlphaWorld, which already looks too fake as it is with all those solid colors and hardly any light shading. The real world (or virtual like AlphaWorld mimicks) ain't so flat-shaded and UNshaded.

So, no, it DOESN'T make sense not to make AlphaWorld (and other worlds) objects more realistically lit, which is why I recently redid all my object surface settings and why Hole and Cubed look even MORE realistic because of it!

[View Quote] > Before you do that I have a friendly warning:
>
> All objects will change its color/tone/whatever if you add the texturemode lit command to them (and they did not have it before). IMO it is a dangerous action!! Zillions of beautiful constructions will be screwed up badly!
>
> Think about it! AW has 70,000,000 objects. If you change 1/10th of the objects statistically it will affect about 7,000,000 existing objects inworld!!!
>
> I know everyone wants those nice features but .... I would rather introduce another sets of objects with those commands added!
>
> Make sense?
> I hope,
>
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 10:59pm

Andras is correct; the "l" should be a SUFFIX, not PREFIX. Otherwise object names will be a pain to remember and won't sort alphabetically correctly.

However, I still think AWCI world objects should be lit by default without creating an ENTIRE new set of objects, which is just silly to me, especially when builds will be ENHANCED, not "destroyed" because of having lit objects.

[View Quote] > "l" as a prefix...at the front, please. I kinda' like names that start with an "L". ;-)
>
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 11:22pm

Actually "L" as a suffix is already in use. What about pp01l.rwx, standing
for Large? New users will confuse the two most definitly. For continuity's
sake, I suggest you go with a prefix.

:)
SW Chris

[View Quote]

Feb 20, 2001, 11:41pm

How is adding texturemodes lit hurting? I've done it in all my places and
its better? Maybe if you explain to me?

-Myrth

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Feb 21, 2001, 12:53am

[View Quote]
Sure, there are problems with alot of objects, in alot of worlds - I'm sure
that cubed (I think thats it name) also has its share of problem objects
eep, *every* world does. I think perhaps you strive too much for perfection,
when you must realise that this stuff is built by humans, and sometimes have
human error, also, alot of the objects were built a long, long time ago, and
things have advanced alot since then in terms of graphics. Remember also,
there are limited people at the company, and limited things we can all do -
we dont have a million man hours every day to do every single thing. I
actually do all of this stuff in some of the free time that I do have - I
spend most of my day doing my actual tech support, because there is a huge
user base out there, and let me tell you it is a large task keeping
everything running smoothly for the users. Also, we have alot of things
going on here, and over the next few months you will find out what some of
our bigger projects are, and they will benefit everybody - believe me when I
say you will all be pleasantly surprised by some of the things in the works
this year.

But, I *am* doing what *I* can, and, I cannot see the harm in asking the
community for input on these issues - thats what everyone wanted isnt it ?
So, I ask, I find out, I get myself up to speed on what are the concerns,
and I try to do something about them - no need to complain so much, at least
there is someone doing something about the outstanding issues, its just
going to take me some time - Alphaworld wasnt built in a day you know....

F.

Feb 21, 2001, 4:27am

Eep is right. Just make them all accept light by default... This would
make the most sense and not mess up the AW object library with all these
duplicate objects that are the same but do one tiny thing different.
--
Syntax
syntax at earthcorp.com
www.swcity.net

[View Quote]

Feb 21, 2001, 6:08am

Syntax, that probably would be the simplest way to handle it. However, I do wonder how it would affect literally thousands of already-built places in Alphaworld. Since Andras has kindly offered to do extra versions of the models which need texturemode lit, why not let him do the extras and leave the old objects alone? That "one tiny thing different" ... I guess I'd have to see several of my buildings both ways before I could really get a good idea of what it might do to existing builds on Alphaworld.

With just a small "l" in front of the new names, all the newly lit panels, walks, floors, etc., would be listed together, easy to find in the alphabetical list of AW models (objects).

At present, the L part of the list at http://objects.activeworlds.com/aw/models/ has only lamp01.rwx and the seven land objects.

Looks like a logical location for a long list of lit lobjects. Yeah, I deliberately put an "l" in front of "objects"...I was on a roll with the "L"s in that sentence. ;-) But seriously, I do prefer the idea of bunching the newly lit objects together alphabetically.

Which reminds me... yes, Rolu, your point about small "l" being confused with the letter "I" (and even more so with the numeral one) is well-taken. I think everyone would get used to recognizing it as a lowercase L fairly quickly.

Lara

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Feb 21, 2001, 11:30am

would it really affect other builds if they have no light on them? Older
builds will remain the same, unless they are hit by some "create light"
source, and when that happens, most likely they WANT it to reflect light. :)

I haven't been keeping close tabs on this thread but are you guys referring
to the problem with world lighting on walks? I can't see it as too much of
difference for a few walks and floors to get a bunch of houses lighted. It's
not even that easy to light walks and floors with some of those textures
anyways.

But better safe than sorry however too...

Nornny

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Feb 21, 2001, 11:34am

[View Quote] Which is exactly why it hasnt been cahnged yet.

More thought would be required - perhaps a vote by a vote bot in AWGZ ?

Ideas anyone ?

F.

Feb 21, 2001, 11:34am

[View Quote]
That not such a bad idea. Let me think about it - really, in essence though,
it will be doubling the object just to be able to use some for the
lighting.

There are a few different factors here regarding other things we are doing
that would affect a decision on doing that, as I cant actually tell you what
those factors are, then this decision should be left for a little while
longer...but by all means discuss it, I want to see what you guys all think.


--
Fletcher Anderson
Active Worlds Support
Activeworlds.com
support at activeworlds.com

Feb 21, 2001, 11:34am

[View Quote] Tell you what - build the set up, and then I'll see about what we can do
about putting them
--
Fletcher Anderson
Active Worlds Support
Activeworlds.com
support at activeworlds.com in - no guarantees yet though =)

Facter

Feb 21, 2001, 12:33pm

With texture mode lit you can also end up with total wash out basicly it
ends up being so burned as to end up being white.
In a case like that you will not get realism but totaly useless objects.
imo new objects not modified old objects.
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Feb 21, 2001, 1:34pm

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
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sigh - must a german correct your spelling?

It is "There are a few different facters here" - that's not factors

run facter run schrieb:
> There are a few different factors here regarding other things we are doing
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Feb 21, 2001, 2:32pm

Lara, look at Hole and Cubed. Do your objects look screwed up permanently because I added slightly more extreme surface settings? They didn't use to all be consistently surfaced (.5 .3 .1, .8 .1 0, etc, etc) but are now all mostly .5 1 0 (with darker objects having .5 .1 0) and everything looks BETTER and MORE REALISTIC because of it. If anything, I say the lit objects be applied to AW GZ or Beta world first as a test to SHOW that previous builds WON'T be screwed up by the change.

[View Quote] > Syntax, that probably would be the simplest way to handle it. However, I do wonder how it would affect literally thousands of already-built places in Alphaworld. Since Andras has kindly offered to do extra versions of the models which need texturemode lit, why not let him do the extras and leave the old objects alone? That "one tiny thing different" ... I guess I'd have to see several of my buildings both ways before I could really get a good idea of what it might do to existing builds on Alphaworld.
>
> With just a small "l" in front of the new names, all the newly lit panels, walks, floors, etc., would be listed together, easy to find in the alphabetical list of AW models (objects).
>
> At present, the L part of the list at http://objects.activeworlds.com/aw/models/ has only lamp01.rwx and the seven land objects.
>
> Looks like a logical location for a long list of lit lobjects. Yeah, I deliberately put an "l" in front of "objects"...I was on a roll with the "L"s in that sentence. ;-) But seriously, I do prefer the idea of bunching the newly lit objects together alphabetically.
>
> Which reminds me... yes, Rolu, your point about small "l" being confused with the letter "I" (and even more so with the numeral one) is well-taken. I think everyone would get used to recognizing it as a lowercase L fairly quickly.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 21, 2001, 2:37pm

Only if there is a high specular value (for AW 2.2 and below users only, however). Even the highest diffusion value (.5 1 0) only shows up slightly whiter in AW 2.2 because RW3's lighting is slightly darker (perhaps still a bug). Regardless, most of AW's objects have .5 .3 .1 surface and so won't be much brighter in AW 2.2 anyway, and certainly won't be in AW3.

[View Quote] > With texture mode lit you can also end up with total wash out basicly it
> ends up being so burned as to end up being white.
> In a case like that you will not get realism but totaly useless objects.
> imo new objects not modified old objects.

[View Quote]

Feb 21, 2001, 3:32pm

[View Quote] Ananas - there is no such word in the english language as "facter" - sorry
=)

Run Facter Run !
--
The opinions expressed in this newsgroup post are not representive of
Activeworlds.com
nor AWCI policies. Any information posted within this newsgroup post, is the
express opinion of "Facter"

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