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Jul 13, 2003, 5:52pm

In article <3f11b745$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, tony at homeunix.uni.cc says...
[View Quote] That's why you have su in *nix, runas in Windows. You don't need to write in MS
Word as administrator.

--
../B

Jul 13, 2003, 5:52pm

[View Quote] Things like bash and gcc, yeah. ;)

Totally the opposite with windows. It's made me log in as administrator
to install things that really shouldn't need it. I think it might've
been AIM. At that point I said "hah, I guess I'll just stay administrator."

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 27
Processing time: 22 days, 8 hours.
(Total hours: 536)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 13, 2003, 5:53pm

[View Quote] What if you're not the administrator of the box?

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 27
Processing time: 22 days, 8 hours.
(Total hours: 536)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 13, 2003, 6:02pm

In article <3f11b8c7$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, Bowen at andras.net says...
[View Quote] One of us has missed the point, lets start again :) You don't have to be logged
on as a privileged user in any OS for 98% of the tasks a normal user performs,
you can use su or runas to temporarily gain privileges for administrative
tasks. If you mean not having the root or admin password then tough luck, you
can't perform administrative tasks...check with your admin.

--
../B

Jul 13, 2003, 6:03pm

[View Quote] And if the admin is not available?

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 27
Processing time: 22 days, 8 hours.
(Total hours: 536)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 13, 2003, 6:10pm

In article <3f11bb1f$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, Bowen at andras.net says...
[View Quote] Contact him using phone, e-mail, shout, smoke signs, message in a bottle,
pigeons. The point is if you don't have the root pass you are not authorized to
do tasks that require it...c'est la vie. If you ever administer a corporate
network feel free to give the domain admin password to the secretaries so that
they can install ICQ because the group policy restricts it :)

--
../B

Jul 13, 2003, 6:10pm

You fire em...

- Mark

[View Quote]

Jul 13, 2003, 6:16pm

Bah M a t t can't do a thing but harrass. He's just another newb using
programs with exploits that his friends probally used.

Jul 13, 2003, 6:33pm

Kol is friends with ZeoGang, and not M A T T. :-)
--
-Miek Zimmer
*Mike

[View Quote]

Jul 13, 2003, 6:34pm

[View Quote] There's webicq. AIMexpress is a little weird.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 27
Processing time: 22 days, 8 hours.
(Total hours: 536)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 13, 2003, 7:17pm

Hi everyone:

[View Quote] Boy, is THIS a contradictory statement OR WHAT???

That's just like victims of domestic violence telling the police every time
they're summoned "my boyfriend beats me up, but I still love him".just as
they're putting the boyfriend in handcuffs and about to stuff him in the
squad car.

PC Hamster


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003

Jul 13, 2003, 7:21pm

You guys make useing a bot sound scarry. I am one of those people who knows
nothing aobut a bot except for how to turn it on and say go. I may never
turn on my bot again lol

Imagine

[View Quote]

Jul 13, 2003, 8:30pm

[View Quote] I'm not an expert with the WinNT branch of Windows, but that's probably because the install program had to write to the registry and to the Program Files directory. Requiring administrator privileges to modify system components is a good idea, not a bad one. If you want to run the program after that, you should do it with a non-administrator account.

--
-Agent1

Jul 13, 2003, 9:01pm

[View Quote] > Totally the opposite with windows. It's made me log in as administrator to install things that really shouldn't need it. I think it might've been AIM. At that point I said "hah, I guess I'll just stay administrator."

This is why the RunAs service exists :) I have never logged into Administrator in months; anything that required admin goes through RunAs (I have shortcuts on my desktop to control panels that invoke RunAs)

Jul 13, 2003, 9:29pm

You know the argument is getting ridiculous when you're arguing over a
hypothetical situation.

Bowen, do you think that, just once, you could actually argue about the
topic at hand, instead of trying to divert it in ten different
directions (i.e. admin availability, ICQ installation, etc)? :P

[View Quote] [View Quote] --
Goober King
Arguing over futility
awnews at awnews.org

Jul 14, 2003, 12:56am

ZARU has confronted me as well, trying to get me to join this group. Kol is
the apparent "leader" and the gang is called "P r D o". pretty much useless
info, but I have kol and ZARU joining me a lot talking about it amongst
eachother.

Jul 14, 2003, 2:35am

In article <3f11cd58 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, imagines at joimail.com says...
> You guys make useing a bot sound scarry. I am one of those people who knows
> nothing aobut a bot except for how to turn it on and say go. I may never
> turn on my bot again lol
>
> Imagine
>

You don't need to be scared, you need to be cautious. If you use common sense
and run only trusted programs you should be fine. I disagree that if you have
technical knowledge you can handle unknown programs; maybe you can, maybe you
can't...depends on the programmer's skills to hide malicious content. Even an
advanced user can overlook malicious behavior because it's a simple fact, code
can do *anything* on computers.

Trust is an issue too, who can you trust? Let's not forget a couple years back
when someone earned the community's trust with a text to speech program only to
release a password stealing bot a couple weeks later.

--
../B

Jul 14, 2003, 3:18am

[View Quote] ICQ installation was brought up by Baron, talk to him. Admin
availablity fits right into the argument of windows program
installation. Which then fits, like a glove, into this "AW HACKED"
issue. Ding dong, the witch is dead.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 27
Processing time: 22 days, 8 hours.
(Total hours: 536)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 14, 2003, 3:21am

[View Quote] Non-admins can write to the registery as far as I'm aware. Deleting is
another issue (I think you can set rights for that sort of thing). As
for keeping required system components in program files... that's a
stupid idea. :-\

Maybe something more along the lines of C:\windows\shell\ would be more
in order for programs windows requires. This would then allow
non-administrators to install programs. There's also something that
should be quite like that personal firewall (forget it's name) that pops
up authorization for programs to open up ports (thus allowing people
better control over things that might be viruses... and things that
shouldn't contact hosts on the internet.). I don't know, those seem
like better measures for allowing the system to be more secure while
allowing normal users a little bit more leeway.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 27
Processing time: 22 days, 8 hours.
(Total hours: 536)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 14, 2003, 4:08am

Your right of course, these bots do sound scary, but then again the same
goes for any program you use, anything you download and any Macros that you
run on your computer...

People need to, and most do, that operating systems do not posses the
intelligence needed to do things like detect viruses etc. Some good
anti-virus programs have the 'bloodhound' feature which looks for pieces of
code that could be a virus or trojan, by looking though the binary data of a
file before it is run and looking for things like DLL references (for things
like Kernel32.dll Keyloggers), but allot of systems don't have this...

As for bots in AW, you have to be very careful due to 1 fact, unless your
bot happens to be running though a certain illegal program with logging set
to full, you have absolutly no idea what a program is doing under normal
situations, some you can run in dissasebmly and see certain calls, like wipe
all objects __aw_imp type things...

But thats not always the case, how do you know the bot isnt going to appear
in some random part of a public world with its name as your priv? (Hint: Use
special characters) or just pop into the hackers world instead and say the
password out loud? Oh, and don't forget that almight bollocks up, the
programmer accidenly adding using the privilege password string for
something like bot name, world, etc).

But seriously, if your careful you won't have this problem. Bots like
Xelagot, Preston, Magsbot, Chazbot, ChatRelayBot etc are all perfectly safe
as far as anyone can work out, and their owners are trusted people who put
their bots on trusted websites. Some people have to take risks with things
like Beta bots, but they have to accept they may have problems with the
bot....

Just remember, be a paranoid and you stand a better change (I run 3
firewalls, 1 encrypted proxy, 2 pieces of Anti-Virus with auto update every
6 hours, packet sniffers, decompilers, cyphered disks, always-on Windows
Update etc) and I still don't think im 100% safe, on the other hand if you
use say Windows straight out the box you might as well take a sledge hammer
to your Hard Disk's).

Anyway, im sure I've scared you enough, just be careful :)

- Mark

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2003, 9:06am

No, actually it doesn't. Baron only mentioned ICQ as a joke, and he even
said that OSes have nothing to do with the conversation in a previous
post. The topic was about malicious bots and what AWI can do to stop
them, not about Windows admin privileges, installing ICQ, or any of that
crap.

But that's all beside the point. My point is you do this all the time,
picking up on some innocuous tidbit and running with it. Just yesterday,
I left for a few hours, came back to the NGs and found 40-some-odd new
messages in here, and about half of them were you and Baron going back
and forth about crap.

Oh, and Baron, stop encouraging him. :P

[View Quote] [View Quote] --
Goober King
Stick to the point
awnews at awnews.org

Jul 14, 2003, 2:33pm

sad thing it happen , but before blaming a bot or keylogger , i would make
sure your friends dont give out the ppw on purpose

Jul 14, 2003, 3:11pm

I don't know how to say it to be heard but no untrustable bots were used on
Gala.
I had doubt about 2 bots I didn't know much about, competent people made
tests (I thank them for that) and they found no backdoor and nothing was
sent via these bots.

For the rest, I might be french but I am not completely stupid : we are
only two to know the password and we didn't give it away.

Both the owner and my computer are pretty safe, never had viruses or trojan
or things like that.

So, the "bot theory" is to exlude and the "user error" theory is to exclude
as well.



"zerge aka rexory" <erik.faes1 at pandora.be> a écrit
news:3f12db47$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> sad thing it happen , but before blaming a bot or keylogger , i would
> make sure your friends dont give out the ppw on purpose
>
>

Jul 14, 2003, 3:13pm

[View Quote] If you don't like it, why are you continuing it? Filter me for goodness
sake.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 30
Processing time: 23 days, 18 hours.
(Total hours: 570)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Jul 14, 2003, 3:27pm

some guy called arcior gave it to matt on msn , and i know thta for sure ,
how do you know for sure it didnt , and you think you know how it happend ?
and french doesnt make you stupid , i am belgian , cant be worse :)

Jul 14, 2003, 3:43pm

Isn't it Alcior ? The guy who owns "FRANCE!" ? I thinks its other nickname
is AgentSmith.

"zerge aka rexory" <erik.faes1 at pandora.be> a écrit dans le message de news:
3f12e7e4 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> some guy called arcior gave it to matt on msn , and i know thta for sure ,
> how do you know for sure it didnt , and you think you know how it happend
?
> and french doesnt make you stupid , i am belgian , cant be worse :)
>
>

Jul 14, 2003, 3:55pm

Ok guys I read these ngs and just HAD to respond to this thread, because
frankly Strike Rapier was the closest to getting what actually happened here
correct. It was in fact the Tunnel bug in the world server that was used to
take over Gala. Also, Sleepy E isn't the only one who knows how to do it,
there are a few others :P.(anyone who really wanted to know how would find
so in the differences in the world servers after the tunnel bug was fixed,
'nuff said) Anyways to give a basic overview basically what happened was
the culprits used an application to connect to the ip/port hosting the world
server, and it pretty much bumped the hoster out of control of it. From here
you can do a variety of things since technically you are hosting the world
;-). One of these things is load a propdump, which happened in this case. To
the world owner of Gala. Make sure you are using the latest build of the
world server. The reason why this world was targeted is because whoever was
hosting it, was running an older version of the world server where the
tunnel bug still hasn't been fixed. There are quite a few people out there
who still aren't upgrading the world server. Anyways. M A T T doesn't have
the capability to do this, it wasn't him, trust me. Open your eyes people :)
take a look at the obvious before assuming M A T T does everything, he is
not capable of doing anything significant in AW. He just uses cheap tricks.
Tunneling is way above his level. So to the world owner of Gala take a look
at your world logs, you will be able to tell that control was taken over
from the world in there :) Also take a look at the brief moment the world
went WFS, that was when it happened. I just figured I would set you guys
straight on what happened :)

-Cheers
Mod


[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2003, 3:59pm

I think more of us dislike it than like it,..... so how's about you stopping it.


[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2003, 4:11pm

omg mod you evil hacker you :) , btw , i heard a wholegalaxy was deleted
that way last week !

Jul 14, 2003, 4:19pm

Gala is running on the latest server since the day that server went out.

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