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Jan 5, 2006, 10:50pm

I just wondering when this will occur looking at world numbers and cits
present in AW id say numbers have proberly dropped by 20% over the past year
its abit of worry any news when 4.0 will come out?

--
3DElyvisions for 3D Enviromental Creations
http://www.3delyvisions.com

Jan 6, 2006, 2:58am

They should do a public beta real soon..

The current total of active citizens is equal to that of the 3.0 beta.

I'd say, since we're the loyal, and more costly-paying citizens, that are
still around.. why are we still in the dark with 4.0?

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Jan 6, 2006, 10:56am

Because we're not the most costly-paying citizens anymore. Back in the
day, we made up the majority of their income, purchasing worlds and
citizenships. But now that AWI has gone the virtual education route with
a handful of private contracts, they're making more money than we could
ever hope to give them. And the worst part is, they don't even have the
staff necessary to juggle both parties' interests. Thus, they are
lavished with attention, and we're left holding the bag. When it comes
right down to it, money talks.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Talking money
http://www.gkstudios.net

Jan 6, 2006, 11:39am

I couldn't agree more.
In the recent effort to have Freebies world return, I was trying to explain
to JP who Ananas was. He didn't know. I mentioned 2 or 3 other names we are
all familiar with, people who supply tons of support info ie Mauz and tools
for AW, ie Ananas (and another whom at this moment I can't remember which
and don't want to name the wrong name). He didn't know them either. He said
and I quote "There are just too many of them out there. I really don't know
who they are". In all fairness, we DID get a stale version of Freebies, but
that was more thanks to Mike of SM. All AW had to do was load it.
I realize that all the constant begging and gouging for the release of
4.1 must have them on their ear and ready to throw us all out. And I realize
they are working very hard, with minimal staff to cover all the bases. But I
hate to say here that even 4.1 is not really for us. We aren't the top
consideration there. If so, there wouldn't be features included which
EXCLUDE use by this universe. And I assure you there are. A lot of you know
that.
Finally, on the recent thread re the incident at the Gate and the
discussion about Gatekeepers and whether or not AWI had much if any control
over them, I sent the following email to JP and Rick:

From: Shalimar
Date: 01/03/06 11:36:02
To: JP McCormick; Rick Noll
Subject: Fw: A little bit too far (AWGate Woes)

Dear JP and Rick,

I would have gone the normal routes and asked via the NG posts for a
response to this, but even I have to admit..getting anyone from AWI to
answer in the NG's lately has been most difficult! I do understand, however,
that you all have your plates really full at this time.

It seems to be a recurring "whine" and complaint not only in NG's but
private chats, that the powers that be don't really know what's going on in
AW and that they don't care to know. JP....you rather endorsed that school
of thought recently in a phone conversation I had with you by saying of some
of the most prominent, time giving, ardent working and long standing cits
that you "didn't know them *laughed*, and there are just a lot of them out
there". Not good. They are the ppl who keep this place running on a daily
basis. They fill your pockets with the $$$ and if they all went on an
extended vacation at the same time, you would be standing there with your
.......... well, suffice to say your mouth open :)

I personally own 8 worlds in here. I spend a considerable amount of
money on what I consider to be a "hobby". But if my hobby were woodworking
for example and the lumber I had been receiving was not good quality, the
lumber yard wouldn't answer the phone and the yard owner claimed he'd never
heard of me, I'd be knitting mittens in a heartbeat!!

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and I know as well as you do
that there will ALWAYS be whiners about something or someone. But just a
moment of your attention here would be most appreciated. Please post on this
thread.

Sincerely,
Janet McIntosh
aka Shalimar

As you can see......to date, no response. So throw out the previously
requested "Enzo Please Read" or "Enzo Please Respond".......nobody is
watching and they don't know who the heck you are anyway! What is worse is
they don't care :(
I was naive enough to believe they were just busy at the moment,
but I've really learned a lot in the past week or so. For those of you, and
you know who you are, who think you have the inside connection and have been
blessed with a visit or a word from Rick who continues to assure and
reassure that "AW has no plans for closing. If fact, we are currently
working on some things that will blow your socks off" (paraphrase)
..........I say, wake up and smell the coffee!!! (Or bs as the case may be)
Surrrrrrre, AW will be around. And surrrrrrre they will have a great
browser! But he's not talking about US! He is talking about their
commercial and educational unis.
So I for one will start protecting my own wallet and drop my
worlds by attrition. And Ely.....should I be the last one to leave, I'll be
sure to turn out the lights :)


[View Quote]

Jan 6, 2006, 12:47pm

[View Quote] I can turn out the lights, mice can live in the dark <:3 )~~~~

My citizen number lists indicate that new registrations went down by 17 % last year.
But the number of worlds is only 10 % less than at their highest peak last year.
Number of worlds changes according to user amount also, because of the short-lived
trial worlds and 3D homepages, since it is usually the new citizens who obtain them.

> its abit of worry any news when 4.0 will come out?

It will be 4.1 already, unless they come up with a cooler name.
I think it is now safe to say that "this year" :)

--
Mauz
http://mauz.info

Jan 6, 2006, 1:29pm

Did you tell ENZO and JP that ActiveWorlds does actually have newsgroups..
might want to send them a URL on the help pages, so they know where and how
to get onto these :)

Jan 6, 2006, 1:57pm

Those groups do have money, and it occurs to me that pays for the
development we all benefit from. Without them would there even be a 4.0?

I enjoy AW for what it is now, and look forward to any and all improvements
that come our way. I think it well worth waiting for it to be stable and as
bug free as possible.

AW is still the BEST 3D chat environment of its kind on the net.


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Jan 6, 2006, 4:54pm

Money does talk O_O
i doubt there is a single business out there that could make enough money by
normal consumers only, not including food stores, and other common house
hold products.
Most companies try going for goverment/military and big business contracts
mainly, anything that consumers get from it is usually just a by product.
there are obviosuly a few exceptions though...

Well fact is, thats not always such a bad thing.

-SWE

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Jan 6, 2006, 5:25pm

[View Quote] Its a good rule to remember thought, that if your users can make you, they
can usually break you, regardless of if you diversify.

--
- Mark Randall
http://www.temporal-solutions.co.uk
http://zetech.swehli.com

"Those people that think they know everything are a great annoyance to those
of us who do"
Isaac Asimov

Jan 6, 2006, 7:30pm

I agree with u ladyM. It is still the best. I have been to 7 different unis
just recently and theres hardly anyone in any of them at one time. I think
everyone should stop whining and sniveling about aw and just wait and see
all the cool things we will have, And yes it is for this uni too. I dont
like the prices we have to pay either but i quit whining about that a couple
years ago. I still enjoy aw a lot. The way I look at it is stop complaining
and enjoy what there is or go do something else with your time. Maybe u can
pray for God to grant you the serenity
to accept the things u cannot change;
courage to change the things u can; (whining isn't the way)
and wisdom to know the difference.
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Jan 6, 2006, 8:33pm

There won't be a 4.0 :-)



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Jan 6, 2006, 8:42pm

lol :)
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Jan 6, 2006, 8:46pm

Bets KF a katana model there WILL be. ;o)))

Jan 6, 2006, 9:03pm

[View Quote] The way I see it, AW is my one and only hobby/vice.
I don't smoke, collect stamps, gamble.....

I gladly pay for this, no matter the cost.

Jan 6, 2006, 9:03pm

Already had the 4.1 info :P

--
- Mark Randall
http://www.temporal-solutions.co.uk
http://zetech.swehli.com

"Those people that think they know everything are a great annoyance to those
of us who do"
Isaac Asimov
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Jan 8, 2006, 4:10am

4.1, 4.0.. Same difference.. not realy, but you know what I mean.

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Jan 8, 2006, 6:48pm

[View Quote] There is actually one, but it is not a public release version - the
release version will have the version number 4.1. :-)

Jan 9, 2006, 9:28pm

Oh my god that is freakin' brutal... yet strangely not surprising one bit.
I just can't imagine how he doesn't know about the people who have given so
much to AW over the last 8 years. Ignorant turd.. :X
--
Syntax | www.swcity.net

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Jan 9, 2006, 9:30pm

No assumption is safe when it comes to AWI. :P
--
Syntax | www.swcity.net

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Jan 11, 2006, 4:47am

And I am certain that Steve Jobs keeps tabs on the Mac Users Group chapters
scattered throughout the world.

Jan 11, 2006, 11:58pm

thats probably because Apple makes most of it's money from selling ipods
(according to Forbes, they anouced selling 14 million ipods in the last
quater), so if they upset thier normal users, they're screwed.
Also, not too certain, but i doubt many businesses, other then CG firms and
movie production houses, really have much use for apples. You could buy an
apple server, but would you really want to?
Now on the other hand, anyone notice how Microsoft are focusing less and
less on Windows, and more and more on other big business software?

-SWE

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Jan 12, 2006, 12:56am

LOL. ^_^


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Jan 12, 2006, 1:31am

no see, the point is, AW don't have to, so why bother? :)
forgot to mention the point of my post :)

-SWE

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Jan 12, 2006, 11:42pm

Six years ago I joined AW, when membership was $20 a year. The worlds were
full of people: citizens & tourists. You could explore worlds and actually run
into some one. When AW joined up with Juno, it grew even larger & we had Huge
numbers of people entering through JunoDome.

At the time, I joined it was a fee anyone could easily afford, so they
joined up quickly. Many people bought more than one citizenship.

There is a market for 3Dchat: an interactive Virtual Reality Environment,
which incorporates, social, creative and gaming activities. But the Key to that
market is cost to the consumer. The customer usually goes where the cost fits
their income & the product. As previously shown when AW raised its fee and
several hundred AW citizens left for a similiar product.., so the market is
there for a 3Dchat with a reasonable rate.

Right now, AW has the best environment(limitless creative building, freedom
to explore and various aspects), but what happens when another similiar program
offers a lower membership rate? Since competition is a pathway to success in
business, why not grab all the people you can get into your program? Each
citizen is a potential world owner.

With the huge numbers of people flocking to 2Dchat, there could be even more
people checking out 3D chat if they knew about it....AND could afford it when
they got to AW. (Ive brought in friends from 2Dchat to AW: they became citizens
years ago.)
Anyway, there is a market out there, just need to see who can provide the
right fee rate and products. I hope its AW.





[View Quote] > I just wondering when this will occur looking at world numbers and cits
> present in AW id say numbers have proberly dropped by 20% over the past year
> its abit of worry any news when 4.0 will come out?
>
> --
> 3DElyvisions for 3D Enviromental Creations
> http://www.3delyvisions.com

Jan 13, 2006, 1:49am

2D chat = Palace? I was in palace (and still pop in there now n then) for
four years before I got hooked on 3D AW ... I remember the first three weeks
I was in AW I felt *dizzy* LOL.

LNH



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Jan 13, 2006, 1:51am

The issue isn't necessarily the cost, as $6.95/month is still cheaper
than any of the MMORPGs out there these days. The issue is more about AW
being *worth* that kind of price. People left not simply because they
raised the prices, but because people didn't feel that AW offered enough
to be worth the hassle of shelling out that kind of money.

Personally, considering how little AW has evolved since the price hike,
I'd say it's still only worth about the original $20/year price. But
from the sounds of it, AW 4.1 should bring features that put the product
more in line with its current price. Maybe once it's released, we'll see
a virtual Renaissance in AW! Only time will tell...

[View Quote] > Six years ago I joined AW, when membership was $20 a year. The worlds were
> full of people: citizens & tourists. You could explore worlds and actually run
> into some one. When AW joined up with Juno, it grew even larger & we had Huge
> numbers of people entering through JunoDome.
>
> At the time, I joined it was a fee anyone could easily afford, so they
> joined up quickly. Many people bought more than one citizenship.
>
> There is a market for 3Dchat: an interactive Virtual Reality Environment,
> which incorporates, social, creative and gaming activities. But the Key to that
> market is cost to the consumer. The customer usually goes where the cost fits
> their income & the product. As previously shown when AW raised its fee and
> several hundred AW citizens left for a similiar product.., so the market is
> there for a 3Dchat with a reasonable rate.
>
> Right now, AW has the best environment(limitless creative building, freedom
> to explore and various aspects), but what happens when another similiar program
> offers a lower membership rate? Since competition is a pathway to success in
> business, why not grab all the people you can get into your program? Each
> citizen is a potential world owner.
>
> With the huge numbers of people flocking to 2Dchat, there could be even more
> people checking out 3D chat if they knew about it....AND could afford it when
> they got to AW. (Ive brought in friends from 2Dchat to AW: they became citizens
> years ago.)
> Anyway, there is a market out there, just need to see who can provide the
> right fee rate and products. I hope its AW.

--
Goober King
Virtual Renaissance Man
http://www.gkstudios.net

Jan 14, 2006, 7:28pm

No, the issue IS the cost. In the last few years, I've seen so many citizens(who
were regulars of many years attendance in AW) leave and each case they listed cost as
the reason. The renewal rate in the US is aprox. $70, which is hard for many people to
afford, including myself.

Maybe kids can get their parents to give them money to pay gaming programs, so
they think forking out $7 a month for a game is cheap, but adults will renew at yearly
rates. And $70 a year is a lot of money, when you've got other bills to pay (Not to
mention if you own a world too).

Some of AWcustomers are people that spend a lot of time indoors: disabled/ill,
retired, unemployed, the poor, Internet professionals (ITjobs) and kids... For some
forced to remain homebound, AW creates a wonderful resource for them to connect with
other people, remain active in a virtual society and explore interests. For this group
AW is a valuable resource and yet, for them the cost is prohibitive, since they are
among the poorest users.

During the past years, I've seen many long time citizens leave AW and the reason
is always, they can't afford the cost of renewal. Some citizens remain only due to the
kindness of "mystery benefactors" who renewed their account. I know a number of people
who remain citizens, only due to a secret angel or friend, renewing their citizenship,
since they were unable to afford the cost. Living on disability, unemployment,
retirement, or Medicare doesn't leave much for paying AW $70.(And this doesn't even
begin to count the cost for a world).

AW still offers the most in the line of creativity (unlimited building), yet its
not as much fun to build if you have no one to show it to. Same thing for 3D chatting,
Events and worlds. AW gets a bit lonely and boring with less and less people in the
program. It was much for fun when we had a lot of people in here!
:)
Pamela
CoLor

[View Quote] > The issue isn't necessarily the cost, as $6.95/month is still cheaper
> than any of the MMORPGs out there these days. The issue is more about AW
> being *worth* that kind of price. People left not simply because they
> raised the prices, but because people didn't feel that AW offered enough
> to be worth the hassle of shelling out that kind of money.
>
> Personally, considering how little AW has evolved since the price hike,
> I'd say it's still only worth about the original $20/year price. But
> from the sounds of it, AW 4.1 should bring features that put the product
> more in line with its current price. Maybe once it's released, we'll see
> a virtual Renaissance in AW! Only time will tell...
>
[View Quote]

Jan 20, 2006, 5:17am

I totally agree :)

Going from $20 per year to $70 was indeed too high of a hike. Aside from
that train of thought - I do recall back in the day Enzo saying something to
effect that AW will always be free...

I understand there are bills to pay and running this stuff is expensive. But
there is a much better way to offset the costs of this system than expecting
the majority of the costs to be paid by citizens.

There is a wonderful opportunity in AW to implement it as a 3D Internet
system, if only AWI and other like minded companies would stop classifying
it as a "game" or "3d chat"

What we are looking at here, whether you want to admit it or not, is the
very thing that AW set out to accomplish in the very beginning: A 3D
Internet System that mimics the abilities and properties of a real Metaverse
as set forth by Neil Steveson in Snow Crash. Hence we have a world called
COFMeta.

Problem is, AWI forgot the magic rule with a Metaverse: Business will gladly
pay to be massively exposed to users for continuous periods of time.

IE: Citizenships are free, will flood the system. The Flood of people will
attract business owners and corporations who are greedy to get their
services and products in front of this massive multiuser realtime audience.

With a slight bit of marketing and proper business organization, everyone
gets everything they want from the deal. AW gets rediculously wealthy, users
don't pay to use a system, business and corporations gain meaningful access
to all of us via services and advertising.

Not that hard of a proposition. But, as long as AWI decides to call this
environment a "game" or "3d Chat", we'll never see this to it's fullest
potential.

This is a Metaverse, crying out for content and services. There are
thousands of us in AW all crying that AWI isn't listening to us - but I bet
even money that if half od us got together and built a world, utilizing all
of our resources and working together, and built it into a massive Metaverse
type world - AWI would suddenly take notice. Because it would generate a ton
of revenue.

Money talks.

And if I am the last person in AW, I'm lighting a torch and pitching a tent.

MPL Knight
http://www.vr5online.com



[View Quote]

Jan 20, 2006, 9:51am

> IE: Citizenships are free, will flood the system. The Flood of people will
> attract business owners and corporations who are greedy to get their
> services and products in front of this massive multiuser realtime
> audience.


Just a note, according to what i remember hearing/reading, actually, at the
begining, AW was free, and that was what they were trying to do, but
apparently, they had a goal of getting a million users before a certain
time, for them to be able to run AW at a profit from advertisment alone, but
they didn't reach thier goal (not even close) so thats when they started
charging for cits.

Personally, in my opinion, AW doesn't have very good advertisement potential
anyway. I mean, how many times have you actually clicked on one of those
adverts in AW or AWGate GZ?
Online advertisement is only useful if you are forced to see it all the
time, which in AW your not.

-SWE

Jan 20, 2006, 6:38pm

There are better ways to advertise in AW than stupid billboards.

Objects are banner ads too, ya know? Take for instance a simple vending
machine. You could have CocaCola vending machines all over a world in use
and clickable. Or maybe snack machines that actually let you order snacks to
be delivered. Just the *logo* on the machine is worthwhile regardless of if
people click the machine - which is why companies go to great extremes to
design flashy logos for vending machines - because the logos are the same as
billboards. Anyone who has played the Sims: Bustin Out knows there are
placement for Honda Element and Redbull machines.

How about actually putting stores around GZ? Instead of having craptastical
billboard ads you need to click, why not actually put the store there? The
building is a giant interactive billboard you can shop in for real. Not in
another friggin world like at Mart! - but integrated into a single world like
AWGate, so the people who do not leave gates will be enticed to explore when
they see the buildings and services.

For crying out loud! This is friggin VR Internet we're talking about here,
and the best we can muster is a billboard ad? We should have had The
Metropolitan Museum of friggin Art by now, people! Not like it can't be done
now by the community anyway? All the artwork is online via their website
anyway, and I'm sure a layout of the building is availible online... so what
stops us from making this place better?

*sighs*

What we suffer from is a definite collective enoui.

MPL Knight






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