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Nov 18, 2005, 3:33am

As found on AskAW on supportaw.com:

====

Light Form Asks: "With the release of AW 4.1 will we see updates in AWI
public worlds, such as updated GZs and Objects?"

AWI Answers: "That is a tough question. While we would certainly like to
revamp all our current building worlds, many users would like to leave these
current worlds in their present format for historical purposes. So we will
most likely just open new building worlds with new objects and
capabilities."

====

I post on the whole Alphaworld topic a lot, I know...like beating a dead
horse. But I can't ignore this >_<

I'd just like to bring up two points...

1. The "conservatists" are not against all forms of updating. From what
I've heard over the years, updates which are not forced on them, such as new
available objects, are perfectly fine. Adding new building features also
fall into this realm so long as such changes aren't forced upon them and
their builds look the same as before.

2. Besides that, these "many users" also make up a small minority in AW and
I don't recall seeing more than 5 or 6 on these NGs. AWI once said they
don't want to upset users, but I think you'll be upsetting even more users
by keeping public worlds obsolete. The problem is that like in most
industries, they only hear the complaints, rarely the praises. I dare AWI
to open an official poll :P


I am definantly NOT looking forward to the day AWI opens a new public
building world with all the bells and whistles. That would spell serious
disaster on Alphaworld's population.

- Com

Nov 18, 2005, 5:20am

Excellent post. You cant please everyone, and trying to can get you into
trouble, so if changing AW to 4.1 features etc doesnt effect existing
builds, no worries.

Good post Sir Comit


Bean

[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2005, 1:15pm

1 = reallyreally good point :P Adding move and rotate didn't suddenly make
all your old builds look terrible (unlike when the animate command was
changed...), so I dont see how allowing what 4.1 will offer could be any
more dangerous to builds than what has already been given to AlphaWorld. And
more objects are always welcome :)

I personally don't have much of a preference either way about AWGZ (though
it should look nicer, just so new tourists aren't disgusted by it), but not
updating the GZ doesn't mean you can't update the world as a whole at all.

-CMM

[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2005, 2:12pm

> 2. Besides that, these "many users" also make up a small minority in AW
> and
> I don't recall seeing more than 5 or 6 on these NGs. AWI once said they
> don't want to upset users, but I think you'll be upsetting even more users
> by keeping public worlds obsolete. The problem is that like in most
> industries, they only hear the complaints, rarely the praises. I dare AWI
> to open an official poll :P

A good portion of AW users don't even use these newsgroups, Comit :)

Poseidon

Nov 18, 2005, 2:38pm

Here here... I agree.

I don't understand why AWI would not like to continually update their
mainstay world.
AlphaWorld could indeed be a historical world, as well as a mothership for
their advancements.

They've already created a separate world with a copy of AWGZ on it.. and
there is even PLENTY of open space
on AlphaWorld itself where the current AWGZ could be relocated to, and
simply put up a sign for people to go and
visit the historical creation.

But, all too many times have I sat at AWGZ lately and found tourists coming
in and going "WTF is this?" or,
"I've seen better at >insert competitor here<.", or "Why would I want to pay
to use this browser if it looks like this?"

I then try to entice any of those Doubting Thomases to visit my area, or
better yet, the wonderful work that's been going
on within SW City.. but why should I have to do that in the first place?!

I do it, in hopes that perhaps they will actually stick around, perhaps
actually sign up for a cit, and therefore hopefully help pay
for some better upgrades.

I had just about left recently.. and if I find nothing changes for the
better.. may yet decide to anyway. :(


[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2005, 3:18pm

I really think that we should have a new Alpha World GZ...... We need something
new... And I was thinking. AWI could start a contest for an new Alpha World
GZ... Best building wins and they can add as a new GZ.. this could be like every
year... or every 2 years...... It's an insentive for the old citis as for the
new comers. And since we have some kind of attachment to this GZ...... AWI can
open a world... same as they did with the Gate and others........this is
my...ummmmm 1 cent.... looks like I lost the other one......still
looking:)))))))

[View Quote] > As found on AskAW on supportaw.com:
>
> ====
>
> Light Form Asks: "With the release of AW 4.1 will we see updates in AWI
> public worlds, such as updated GZs and Objects?"
>
> AWI Answers: "That is a tough question. While we would certainly like to
> revamp all our current building worlds, many users would like to leave these
> current worlds in their present format for historical purposes. So we will
> most likely just open new building worlds with new objects and
> capabilities."
>
> ====
>
> I post on the whole Alphaworld topic a lot, I know...like beating a dead
> horse. But I can't ignore this >_<
>
> I'd just like to bring up two points...
>
> 1. The "conservatists" are not against all forms of updating. From what
> I've heard over the years, updates which are not forced on them, such as new
> available objects, are perfectly fine. Adding new building features also
> fall into this realm so long as such changes aren't forced upon them and
> their builds look the same as before.
>
> 2. Besides that, these "many users" also make up a small minority in AW and
> I don't recall seeing more than 5 or 6 on these NGs. AWI once said they
> don't want to upset users, but I think you'll be upsetting even more users
> by keeping public worlds obsolete. The problem is that like in most
> industries, they only hear the complaints, rarely the praises. I dare AWI
> to open an official poll :P
>
> I am definantly NOT looking forward to the day AWI opens a new public
> building world with all the bells and whistles. That would spell serious
> disaster on Alphaworld's population.
>
> - Com

Nov 18, 2005, 3:29pm

That other cent is shared across the many other people who have
suggested this

Alas, AWI doesnt care ;_;

[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2005, 10:24pm

Hence the poll....

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2005, 10:28pm

Actually that tourist incident just happened to Ferruccio today and was
quoted as saying that he was about to register until he saw AW GZ. Fer
showed him SW City, which saved him. Perhaps its worth it for you guys to
take the temporary hit in citizenship count and update the world and GZ
area, which I don't think will hurt any future plans that you have for the
universe. The ones who don't like the change will complain and maybe leave,
but you might get a net gain in citizenships because of it.

Chris



[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2005, 10:29pm

Well, they do, Gnu. It's evident in their response. Problem is they care
too much. :)

Chris

[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 4:52am

The following is from Ferruccio, who's been having some technically
difficulties posting in the NGs for the longest time. He asked me to relay
this:

======

Their childlike obsession with the "historical" elements in Alpha World is
quite misplaced. It's analogous to a little kid picking up some random
object down the street, like a rusted nail, and developing an attachment to
it after possessing it for a long period of time. This kid now wishes to
preserve this object, even though it has absolutely no redeeming qualities.

The only reason things are so historical now is because the company
neglected to make routine changes to the world in the first place. If they
routinely made changes, their obsession with the historical aspects of Alpha
World would not be found in limiting features and improvements for everyone
else. :P Time to start.

I think those interested in preserving Alpha World are very few in number,
and of those people, pretty much every one of them is more concerned with is
keeping features away that might change the condition of what's already
there. Thus, features like an increased cell limit, increased light radius,
adding more objects and textures, and enabling version-related features that
allow for more possible, would not change things that are already there.

I don't see the point of AWI making new public building worlds. They are
apparently already working around the clock on 4.1. Why spread their time
and resources out even thinner across more worlds? That just makes it more
likely for each individual world to receive less attention. AWTeen already
has all the features maxed out, plus, likely many more objects and textures
that the new world would have. The community is small as it is. Why split up
even more? We don't need a new world. I had these same thoughts about NewAW
(and look what happened there); these thoughts are much more defined now.

Set up a poll, AWI. Post it on the website. Make this another feature vote.
I think you should let us, as a whole, tell you what the majority of users
think in regards to whether changes in Alpha World should be implemented. I
think you'll find that a vast majority wants change.

Nov 21, 2005, 3:02pm

OK do whatever... but the STREET object that was like a fundation.... the one
built in 1995... leave there... so you can have some kind of (treasure piece)
and at the same time a form of prove of when the first object was made.,,, and
you can do like a glass thing all around... lol. My other 1 cent......now i need
2 more...

[View Quote] > The following is from Ferruccio, who's been having some technically
> difficulties posting in the NGs for the longest time. He asked me to relay
> this:
>
> ======
>
> Their childlike obsession with the "historical" elements in Alpha World is
> quite misplaced. It's analogous to a little kid picking up some random
> object down the street, like a rusted nail, and developing an attachment to
> it after possessing it for a long period of time. This kid now wishes to
> preserve this object, even though it has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
>
> The only reason things are so historical now is because the company
> neglected to make routine changes to the world in the first place. If they
> routinely made changes, their obsession with the historical aspects of Alpha
> World would not be found in limiting features and improvements for everyone
> else. :P Time to start.
>
> I think those interested in preserving Alpha World are very few in number,
> and of those people, pretty much every one of them is more concerned with is
> keeping features away that might change the condition of what's already
> there. Thus, features like an increased cell limit, increased light radius,
> adding more objects and textures, and enabling version-related features that
> allow for more possible, would not change things that are already there.
>
> I don't see the point of AWI making new public building worlds. They are
> apparently already working around the clock on 4.1. Why spread their time
> and resources out even thinner across more worlds? That just makes it more
> likely for each individual world to receive less attention. AWTeen already
> has all the features maxed out, plus, likely many more objects and textures
> that the new world would have. The community is small as it is. Why split up
> even more? We don't need a new world. I had these same thoughts about NewAW
> (and look what happened there); these thoughts are much more defined now.
>
> Set up a poll, AWI. Post it on the website. Make this another feature vote.
> I think you should let us, as a whole, tell you what the majority of users
> think in regards to whether changes in Alpha World should be implemented. I
> think you'll find that a vast majority wants change.

Nov 21, 2005, 3:24pm

Enable Terrain

Raise everything for 200 meters up 10 to 20m

Put the damned walk in a pp16 case.

Rebuild GZ.

--
- Mark Randall
http://zetech.swehli.com

"Those people that think they know everything are a great annoyance to those
of us who do"
Isaac Asimov
[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 3:25pm

I think the reason they don't upgrade alphaworld is because they want
everyone to buy their own world that they can use all the latest features
in.
[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 3:40pm

That's exactly it, Ciena. : )

However, there is still plenty to do with the "standard" AW objects and
effects.
Just look at SW City and Off World.

Although Ferruccio makes a valid argument, too.
How about keep the historical GZ in tact, and move the entry point for Alpha
World someplace else?

[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 4:22pm

Ya i think a new gz somewhere else is a great idea. Actually I am thinking
of moving Americas gz to the different themed areas maybe once a month or
maybe 4 times a year. With a sign were they can click to the regular gz and
teleports.
[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 6:10pm

Maybe, but AWTeen's existence diminishes the point.

Chris

[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 6:12pm

I like that idea. :)

Chris

[View Quote]

Nov 21, 2005, 11:11pm

Looking at the question again... I think you may be assuming some things
here, Comit. What if the "new world" is actually a clone of Alpha with 4.1
features and beyond? By saying what you said in your last paragraph you may
be shooting yourself (and all those who want change) in the foot because
you'll be reacting without having enough information.

I remember someone telling me at the reunion that this happened once before,
and because we opened our mouths and shot them off instead of asking
respectful questions, what we wanted was delayed, or may not have even
happened. I'm not sure which, or what, because this was said in passing and
i'm also recalling from something that happened over three months ago.

SW Chris

Nov 21, 2005, 11:56pm

[View Quote] Forgive me for jumping in here, but, if what you said above is true,
that sounds frighteningly like a kid saying "neener-neener" ... instead
of a corporation trying to develop or improve a product that will keep
its long-time user-base happy while also learning how best to cater to
an up-and-coming, Internet-savvy market.

If what you said above is true, I wish AW and its crew all the best of
luck. They're going to need it.

Nov 22, 2005, 12:35am

[View Quote] If that is, indeed, true, then AWI really does listen to us.

Nov 22, 2005, 12:47am

Well, I think we're seeing it from different angles.

Who would you be more willing to listen to? Someone who says "OMG THIS SUX
Fix it or I'll quit!" or "This doesn't work. And here's why it doesn't
work. Please fix it."

Whining doesn't help anybody. And Comit forgive me, but it comes across as
if he's just saying that that particular solution to the "What To Do With
Alphaworld Problem" isn't acceptable, and saying it rather obnoxiously, and
is almost demanding a different solution be put in place.

Now, I know comit, and that's not what he means. But that is what it sounds
like.

Nov 22, 2005, 12:59am

My thoughts rambled on in my post. All I really wanted to point out was
that AWI shouldn't be clumping ALL forms of world improvements (such as
world settings, and new objects) into one category, as it sounds like they
did in their AskAW answer.

In regards to a potentially new publica building world though...I guess its
too early to say anything and who knows what they'll do. Hell it hasn't
even been confirmed that there will be one yet :P

- Com

[View Quote]

Nov 22, 2005, 1:49am

SW Chris said:
"reacting without having enough information"

----------

It would be nice if AW took some time time to allay some of our
well-founded fears. Although we, as long-standing citizens,
knowledgeable AW users and world builders, are not the bulk of AWIs
income, we are their future, as far as continued word-of-mouth
advertising is concerned. (I included my first link on my homepage to
the AW browser back in 1995, and it's still there.)

I, for one, (along with my group) have invested a HUGE amount of time,
effort and money in to a new world. We have spent the last 9 months
terraforming, building and perfecting its features. We are actively
hiring professional programmers to create a new, full-featured bot.
We have also spent and will continue to spend an extensive amount of
money on world hosting, OP hosting, Web hosting, object creation, avatar
creation, bot programming, etc.

Naturally, given that AW 4.1 and the new AW SDK are expected out some
time soon, we are concerned about allowing our programmers to create
something that may become obsolete right away. We are also concerned
that all of the avatars and objects we've purchased will also become
obsolete as soon as the new version of AW is released.

As soon as we realized that the new version of AW/SDK might present us
with some problems, we wrote AW a lengthy email. We asked for some
direction as to what we should do about continuing with our programmers
and our bot project. Should we wait? We asked for some advice as to
whether or not we should continue with the creation and purchase of
objects and avatars. We asked if our new bot, already-existing objects
and avatars and completely-built world would be compatible with the new
version of software and SDK. Can we modify it all later?

To date, we have yet to receive a return email from AWI.

Why the secrecy from AWI? Instead of creating excitement, this brand of
secrecy only feeds the rumor mill and breeds dissatisfaction with the
lack of communication with their existing community members. Why does AW
not respond here, in the NGs, to their users? Why do they not have a
forum anywhere on their site where they can answer questions post
updates, or list exciting news?

I think for the most part that people here, in the NGs, are capable of
open, effective, respectful communication (aside from maybe Strike
Rapier). *grin* Also, the 'wish list' includes some of the very best
ideas I've seen so far! And, even Strike, with his big, old, obnoxious
mouth has a good idea or two (see his outgoing t-gram script).

So, AWI? Listen up! We WANT to continue to support you and we WANT to
respect your efforts, but, you MUST treat your long-standing citizens
with the same, well-earned respect! We've hung in there for YEARS,
always believing in your vision. Please believe in your fans, their
ideas and suggestions for improvement, and their constructive criticism.
In the end, we're really all you've got.

Nov 22, 2005, 4:00pm

i agree, the hells wrong with these people talking about history? you don't
see the idiots from Doom saying "oh, lets not change level 1, it's got a
history".

-SWE

[View Quote]

Nov 22, 2005, 7:05pm

Coree that is probably because their spam filter is a nazi. Place a call
directly to the office and you'll get taken care of. :)

Chris

Nov 24, 2005, 7:09pm

I agree with a lot of the things I have read here. I dont think change
should be forced upon builders, and I think alphaworld needs to recieve
updates just the same as other worlds. New objects, textures, avatars,
better cell space and larger light radius are welcomed. But things like
changing commands so the browser doesn't accept older ones isn't going to
work. Instead of modifing the features we have (talking about building
features) we should try and build on them. Add new ones, and try to make
the browser more flexible so more can be accomplished.

As for Alphaworld Ground Zero, I believe it needs a change. As vera pointed
out, keep that street object that the first object was in, and build some
kind of memorium around it with nice glass windows and a sign. The rest of
the ground zero (I'm talking about AWLD gz- not the builds surrounding it)
should be updated to make people interested in it. As said above, tourists
do in fact go to ground zero and say "uhhh... well, I was going to get a
citizenship.. but.. is this it?" If the ground zero itself is proven to be
updated and new, then tourists and citizens wont mind the old historic
builds that surround it.

Long post made short, Add features, dont just change them;

Update AW Ground Zero

Keep trying, AWI, your doing a good job (But with your community's guidance,
you will have the potential to do a Awesome job) :)

-Matt888 (#352884)

[View Quote]

Nov 24, 2005, 11:48pm

[View Quote] hehehehe
I'm sorry, but I hear Joni Mitchell singing...

They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged all the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot.

Nov 25, 2005, 1:03am

My vision for the new GZ has a lot new trees in it.. and a beautiful land
scaping....with water and waterfalls:))))

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Nov 27, 2005, 5:36am

I feel like I should make a follow-up post based on some feedback since
original posting.

First of all, I just want to say I had no intention of sounding like a
complainer, whiner, griper, rioter, being hotheaded, or outspoken.
Especially the last two. If you know me personally, I'm a very calm person
and you'll be hard pressed to see me angry or even cuss, and I have no known
enemies in cyberspace or r/l :P

To any outsiders of the SWC community I can understand why we might sound
that way. We are surely not just having a fit without thinking about it.
We've analyzed all available info given over the years, with opinions of
many different minds. The reason we post about all this in the first place
is because we love AW - our 6 million objects in AW are testament of that -
but if Alphaworld is simply abandoned and becomes obsolete like so many
other now-empty public building worlds, it's extremely hard to develop a
community there. Lil' quotes such as the one made in the AskAW set off a
big red flag that hinted at that. We just have a lot to worry about, that's
all.

All I was doing in my original post (or meant to do I guess) was correct
something AWI said - that upgrades shouldn't all be lumped into the same
category. Not all upgrades come in the form of drastic world changing
things.

Anyways, I'll just end this post by giving out a thanks to AWI who have
included 3.x features to Alphaworld slowly but surely over the past couple
years ;D

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