|
|
Return of the warehouse Mech
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Return of the warehouse Mech // Work in Progress
Post by Alien // May 7, 2006, 2:12pm
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
Ah, this would be the Alien technology we keep hearing about;)
Not quite sure what you mean by that. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/unsure.gif
Yep that would work. I did say it was just me being lazy:)
Yeah, but given the amount of thought you put into different names, wasn't that more work? ;) |
Post by JYoder // May 7, 2006, 3:34pm
|
JYoder
Total Posts: 1
|
Madmouse,
Just wanted to tell you I think you are doing a great job! This is one of the best things I've seen on this forum. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for sharing your hard work.
Jerry:jumpy: |
Post by MadMouse // May 7, 2006, 10:27pm
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMouse
Ah, this would be the Alien technology we keep hearing about
Not quite sure what you mean by that.
Just me trying to be funny:) . Obviously unsuccessfully!:(
Yeah, but given the amount of thought you put into different names, wasn't that more work?
Probably, but I kinda like WIAHAIW now.
Just wanted to tell you I think you are doing a great job! This is one of the best things I've seen on this forum. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for sharing your hard work.
Thanks Jerry, always good to hear things like that.:) |
Post by Heidi // May 8, 2006, 3:40pm
|
Heidi
Total Posts: 335
|
I just went through this entire thread... your mech is absolutely awesome! I can't wait to see what it looks like finished. Outstanding work. |
Post by MadMouse // May 8, 2006, 10:02pm
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Thanks Heidi.:) |
Post by MadMouse // May 9, 2006, 11:38pm
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Houston We Have A Problem!!!
Guys I need your help....
A couple of days ago I tried a full length render of my Mech for the first time with all the finished textures in place. Everything was going fine until about 85% of the way through the render TS crashed and requested to be closed. When closing the message below was displayed about 20 times one after the other with different memory locations, and this happens every time I repeat the render. At first I thought that I had memory problems but I have since thoroughly 'soak' tested my memory using memtest86 and was given a clean bill of health. I've got 2Gig of memory installed so I find it hard to believe that TS is running out of memory and I always thought that TS used the hard drive as a virtual disk when it ran out of Ram! The models mesh is quite dense and the texture so far are about 80meg on the hard drive. I've got about 15 local lights and one infinite light in the scene but only the infinite light is casting shadows using shadow maps. When I render the textured leg on its own, everything works fine, as well as when I render the whole mech untextured. The only way I have managed to render everything at once is by using a simple 3 point light set up and this makes me worry about the finished render, especially seeing as I've only textured about 1/3 of the model so far.
So there you have it. I'm desperate for some help as I'm starting to wonder if this Mech of mine will every get finished!!!!:(
Using TS6, windows XP SP2 and 2 Gig of memory.
P.S. I'm a real dunce when it come to the technical side of PC's so please keep any answer as simple as possible. Thanks.
ATB
Steve |
Post by Alien // May 9, 2006, 11:54pm
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
I would have said not enough memory, but you have 2GB, so... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/dunno.gif
I suppose it's possible it might want more than that. I don't know about the thing about tS using the HD when it runs short on memory. In theory it ought to, but I've not really pushed tS to it's limits with high polycounts or loads of textures. Another possibility is perhaps it's some flaw/limitation in tS6 related to memory useage, but someone from Caligari would have to answer that 1. Sorry I can't be of more help with this 1. :( |
Post by parva // May 10, 2006, 12:06am
|
parva
Total Posts: 822
|
I have feared that as you sayed how large your texture are.
Now I don't know how many maps the final mech will have.
80 MB are these flatten tif or bmp files or also the files with layers (if you work with them)?
One thing you could try which I do also is to create several resolutions of your maps. Use maps in high resolution 1024 or larger, these textures can be used for close distance shots but scale it down to 512 or alike and use these if you make a full object render. Most of the little details aren't visible also at high resolution output.
Another thing would be to eliminate not visible objects in the render.
To render in layers is difficult in your case.
2gig can be leeched fast from the system.
I don't know how effective the Lightworks engine is but like many other described it's not the best for renderings with many polygons and large textures.
I guess your mech has around 500k polygons or alike?
Have you tried to render in scanline mode? |
Post by MadMouse // May 10, 2006, 12:27am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Thanks for the prompt reply guys.
Alien:-
I would have said not enough memory, but you have 2GB, so...
Exactly my thoughts. I've watched the memory usage in windows task manager during the render and it evens out about 1,500,000k!!! so this could be the problem.
Parva:-
Because I was expecting a lot of textures on this project I kept the map sizes as low as possible, between 600 x 600 to 1500 x 1500 on larger sections. They are all saved as .tga's this includes BUMP, TEXTURE and TRANSPARENCY maps. This format was recommended to me by John Logan. What format would you suggest is best Marcel??
Last count the model had 551815 polygons.
I've tried a render in scan line mode and have had the same results:(
Looks like I'm still looking for the answer. But thanks for your help guys.
Steve.
Edit:
Just tried a render with the map size for the shadow map on the inifinite light at half the previous setting and ... HE PRESTO!!!.. it rendered!!!
Hopefully this points to lack of memory and a trip to the memory shop is in order because with the mech only 1/3 textured things are only going to get worse.
I don't suppose that there is a limit to how much memory TS can make use of, is there???? |
Post by parva // May 10, 2006, 1:44am
|
parva
Total Posts: 822
|
Ah I totally over read that you used shadow maps :D
that can be indeed be a hugh point for your problem.
The format doesn't matter. Tga is a good one there you use alpha maps within.
I mostly use jpg.
I know it just from scenes with many polygons that I get errors if my swap file goes up to 2,6gig unimportant if the file could be larger. I have just 1 gig and still that is much to less. 4 gig would be better =) |
Post by Alien // May 10, 2006, 2:01am
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
MadMouse - glad you got it sorted, but where's the pic? :)
I don't know how much extra memory bigger shadowmaps require, but something Parva said reminded me of another issue. You mention getting more memory, which is fine in theory, however IIRC there's issues with how much memory XP [32bit] can use. It's possible I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I think Windows splits the memory in 1/2, & even with 4GB RAM you'd only get 2GB for tS to use [the other 2GB is alloted for Windows itself, even if it doesn't need it all]. I think this applies even if part of that 4GB is made up of vitual memory [HD]. I don't think that even going to 4GB would give you much extra memory for tS to play with in XP 32bit, though I've only got 2GB myself so maybe someone else here who has 4GB could give some input. :confused:
AFAIK your options are to go 64bit [which in theory should allow tS to take advantage of extra memory, however from what I've read I kinda get the feeling Caligari put plenty of work into catering to more CPUs/CPU cores, but not so much into taking advantage of more RAM or newer RAM technologies - & then there's the potential issue of driver problems for XP 64], or to temporarily free up as much memory as you can before doing a big render, which I can help with if you want.
Parva: I know going from 1GB to 2GB is definitely worth it, but as I explained above I'm not sure about the benefits of 4GB with XP 32bit. |
Post by splinters // May 10, 2006, 2:20am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Probably no good to you now but there have been problems when textures are not all in the same location. You could also send the model to a trusted TS7 user (I am sure any Beta tester can be trusted ;) ), that way you could rule out TS6.6 as the culprit...
And yeah, where is the picture? |
Post by Alien // May 10, 2006, 3:22am
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
I forgot to mention - there may be another way around this issue: tSNet. I know it has the ability to break an image up into smaller parts both for distributing the rendering load between multiple computers & also for just doing an image bigger than 8000x8000 on the 1 computer, but I would have thought it would be possible to split up a normal sized image on 1 machine too. I don't actually have tSNet yet, so can't say this would definitely work for you, but I've seen Chameleon lurking the forums the last couple of days so he should be able to shed some more light on tSNet's abilities. [plus a 1 machine licence, at $49, is much cheaper than an extra 2GB of RAM :)] |
Post by parva // May 10, 2006, 3:36am
|
parva
Total Posts: 822
|
Parva: I know going from 1GB to 2GB is definitely worth it, but as I explained above I'm not sure about the benefits of 4GB with XP 32bit.
Yes, it's not worth with 32bit. I would need 64bit but I do nothing with my current PC. I wait until the end of the year and build a new one.
I heard from a 3gb switch for 32bit winpx but I haven't tried it myself. Some reports about trouble with them. |
Post by Alien // May 10, 2006, 4:55am
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
Yes, it's not worth with 32bit. I would need 64bit but I do nothing with my current PC. I wait until the end of the year and build a new one.
If you see an extra 1GB going cheap, I would definitely consider it, depending on what you currently have:
If your motherboard isn't dual-channel capable & you have 1 or more spare slots spare then go for it.
If your motherboard is dual-channel capable & the number of slots free is equal to or greater than the number of slots already in use, then go for it.
Otherwise it's gonna work out too expensive [unless you get a visit from the free RAM fairy :D].
I heard from a 3gb switch for 32bit winpx but I haven't tried it myself. Some reports about trouble with them.
Yeah, I've heard of that 1 myself, but have also heard of probs [don't recall any details], which is why I didn't mention it. |
Post by GraySho // May 10, 2006, 7:37am
|
GraySho
Total Posts: 695
|
Just yesterday, when I tried to render the town scene, a windows message popped up in system tray. It said, that there's insufficient virtual memory. The system increased the virtual memory automatically though, and the render continued without a problem. Maybe you have to let windows manage the virtual memory. The poly count of the scene was about the same. Textures are not that big because they are compressed as jpg. Though I think, for rendering they have to be decompressed (as does photoshop for manipulation).
The difference is, that I have used raytraced shadows only. You might try to build a light dome that fakes soft shadows. I have done this with quite good results. |
Post by MadMouse // May 10, 2006, 10:46pm
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
A BIG Thank you......
.....to everyone who has taken the time to help me with this problem.
It is such a reassuring feeling to know that I have such kind and helpful colleagues only a mouse click away:)
And a big thank you to Lars from Sweden who took the time to Email with ideas for this problem even though he wasn't even a member of the forum.
Hopefully with a combination of texture map scale adjustment and better control over shadow map sizes, I will just about be able to scrape through with my 2 Gig of memory.
As for 'where's the pic' well I did promise myself that I would only post WIP's of each section as I finished it, and save the final render or part renders for the end, to get the WOW effect. But seeing as you have all been so kind and helpful, how could I refuse:)
This is as far as I have got with the textures. (well I got to keep a little in reserve haven't I:) )
ATB & thank you all so very much.
Steve. |
Post by parva // May 10, 2006, 11:21pm
|
parva
Total Posts: 822
|
The WOW effect has already hit me :D
Superb! |
Post by Steinie // May 11, 2006, 2:13am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
mom, mom, MOM!!!
Sorry I was doing a headstand when I saw your work! |
Post by Délé // May 11, 2006, 3:07pm
|
Délé
Total Posts: 1374
|
Sweet! Just looking at the one leg you can tell this is one massive and mean machine. Looking awesome Steve! :) |
Post by KeithC // May 11, 2006, 5:20pm
|
KeithC
Total Posts: 467
|
Damn that's some good work. You should enter this in the monthly competition; if you don't place first.....well then it's time to hang it up and call it a day.
-Keith |
Post by MadMouse // May 13, 2006, 9:43am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
OH HAPPY DAY!!!
The thigh section is finished and I'm rather pleased with the 'patinaed' metal on the rungs of the ladder. Which means.........DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!
The whole leg is finished!!!! Wooo Hoooo!!!!!
182821 polygons.
88 maps taking 84.5MB:-
45 Texture maps
40 Bumps maps
3 transparency maps
Now on to the serious stuff. Obviously I'll mirror the leg over to be the second one, with subtle alterations (no ladder, no green hydraulic motor etc..) but when I do the textures will also mirror so any text or label images will be reversed. Obviously I could alter every texture so when its mirrored it will read correctly but there is quite a few textures and before I set about the task I thought I'd ask if anyone knew a trick to save me this job????
As always comments and especially crits are welcome.
ATB
Steve
P.S. Also, Thank you for all your kind remarks on my last post
BTW. for those of you that helped with my rendering problem. With the shadow maps turned down a bit the whole mech will still render and that includes both legs with textures. So far so good. |
Post by stan // May 13, 2006, 10:05am
|
stan
Total Posts: 1240
|
a Mousterpiece. :D
.here is a set of plugins to flip your uv on mirrored parts [use my mirrorlocation.tsx..:rolleyes: .]..I don't know who created them ..the site is long gone..hope they don't mind.. |
Post by noko // May 13, 2006, 10:12am
|
noko
Total Posts: 684
|
Your right, the ladder run deserves a DRUM ROLL, very nice. This is one of the best 3d projects I've seen! I hope you make "The Making of The Warehouse Mech" video :D. I am sure it would be very popular. Now what is it going to take to get you to make this baby move? I see all those mechanical goodies just aching to be put into motion. |
Post by jamesmc // May 13, 2006, 10:41am
|
jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
|
wow! Very nicely done! That must take a huge amount of work!
UV map texture painting gives me a case of the willies.
That's why I use an inexpensive 3D painter now. I can rotate, zoom, texture, bump, displacement or just about anything else I want to do with the whole or parts.
With that said, you deserve a 100 dollar cigar, so here! :) |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 13, 2006, 10:47am
|
ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
|
Very cool MM! Coming along quite nicely since my last visit here! You deserve a gold star! |
Post by Alien // May 13, 2006, 11:33am
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
Obviously I could alter every texture so when its mirrored it will read correctly but there is quite a few textures and before I set about the task I thought I'd ask if anyone knew a trick to save me this job????
I've never tried anything remotely close to what you're doing yet, & for all I know that plugin Stan posted might be all you need, but if you need to mirror the texture as well, then I do have an idea.
PSP has the ability to mirror [flip either horizontally or vertically] an image. It also has the ability to use scripts [python] & batch process stuff. You might be able to use that to flip the textures. [I'm assuming Photoshop has similar abilities, but I wouldn't know as I don't have that.]
a Mousterpiece. :D
Definitely! :D |
Post by MadMouse // May 14, 2006, 12:58am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Thanks to everyone for the kind comments and especially to Stan for the plugins. Sadly, although the plugins work on simple objects, they cant deal with the complex UV jobs on my mech. But I've had a look at how many textures I'll have to rework and its not as bad as I originally thought so I think I'll do it by hand in PSP as Alien suggested. It will give me more control in the long run.
BTW Alien its only the sections that contain text or an image that need flipping and not the whole texture but thankfully any text involved in a texture was saved on a separate layer so it shouldnt be to painful to do.
Thanks again, ATB
Steve
P.S. @Noko Now what is it going to take to get you to make this baby move?
Well the more I do the more I get tempted to try an anim so you never know your luck;) |
Post by Alien // May 14, 2006, 3:06am
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
But I've had a look at how many textures I'll have to rework and its not as bad as I originally thought so I think I'll do it by hand in PSP as Alien suggested. It will give me more control in the long run.
BTW Alien its only the sections that contain text or an image that need flipping and not the whole texture but thankfully any text involved in a texture was saved on a separate layer so it shouldnt be to painful to do.
I just gave it a quick try using batch process with a script that just mirrored it horizontally. I used it on a copy of my smilies folder & the static 1s worked ok, but the animated 1s only kept the 1st frame. It may be possible that there's a way round that, but if you're only using still files it's not an issue. If you want the script let me know [it's done with PSP9, don't know if it will work with v8, if that's what you have (v7 doesn't have scripting) ]. |
Post by MadMouse // May 14, 2006, 3:33am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Thanks for the help Alien but like I said its only parts of the texture that need to be flipped. The sections that include any text or graphics i.e. warning labels. This may be possible by using scripts but as I'm still using PSP7 it becomes a mute point anyway.
Thanks all the same mate.:)
Steve |
|
