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Jan 3, 1999, 6:17pm

my father... :-)

well, he has a P2/300, but I got his 3D-card because he needed a free slot
to add some hardware... :-)

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Jan 3, 1999, 6:35pm

Well, Rolu's father had a Hercules Stingray 128 3D, but gave it to Rolu...

--

[ Fluxen Dean-Christian Strik ]
[ ICQ: 11760568 ISG RhinoSoft ]
[ fluxen at bigfoot.com dean2 at bigfoot.com ]

The nice thing of standards is that there are so many to choose from.
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

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Jan 3, 1999, 7:29pm

Um, how long have you been in AW, Rolu? AW's been in desperate need of a new 3D engine for years. My point is, the engine needs work before the sunroof is added. Everything else is fluff. The engine should be the main priority for Roland. AW's system CPU requirements is a Pentium (no MHz specified). I have a Pentium-rated 133MHz CPU and AW LAGS like shit on it. The earliest Pentium speed is, what, 60MHz? Now let's think here...either COF ups their minimum requirements, or they get a new engine because right now it's shit, dig? This ain't brain surgery to see why the engine is more important than all these shit fluff additions...

[View Quote] > Sure, but then give the car a good paint job, $2000 stereo system, a sunroof
> *and* a new engine. It will drive better *and* look better. AW is in urgent
> need of some speed and performance increase. However, it also needs its
> "look" to attract new visitors and keep old ones. So, I would say, go after
> a better (preferably full screen) 3D-engine, but keep an eye on the details.
> It is a balance between performance and looks. I consider the performance
> the most important thing at the moment.
>
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Jan 3, 1999, 7:31pm

Why are you blockheads responding to a rhetorical question? I should've narrowed it down to:

"What idiot (who uses 3D apps) would have a P2/350 WITHOUT hardware acceleration?"

[View Quote] > Well, Rolu's father had a Hercules Stingray 128 3D, but gave it to Rolu...
>
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Jan 4, 1999, 3:53am

It's just plain no damn fun having to walk around with visibility set to
40-50 just to make AW perform BARELY adequately.

Paul

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Jan 4, 1999, 3:59am

Your saying the new beta is going to lower the FPS by 25%???
Surely COF is not that stupid?

Paul

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Jan 4, 1999, 6:10am

Someone who can't buy a 3D card?

[View Quote] why not...

> I should've narrowed it down to:
>
>"What idiot (who uses 3D apps) would have a P2/350 WITHOUT hardware
acceleration?"
>
[View Quote]

Jan 4, 1999, 6:17am

[View Quote] About 1.5 years now.

>AW's been in desperate need of a new 3D engine for years. My point is, the
engine needs work before the sunroof is added. Everything else is fluff. The
engine should be the main priority for Roland.

That's what I said.

>AW's system CPU requirements is a Pentium (no MHz specified). I have a
Pentium-rated 133MHz CPU and AW LAGS like shit on it. The earliest Pentium
speed is, what, 60MHz? Now let's think here...either COF ups their minimum
requirements, or they get a new engine because right now it's shit, dig?
This ain't brain surgery to see why the engine is more important than all
these shit fluff additions...

I've got a P-200 + Hercules Stingray 128/3D, in AWGate I get 4-7fps at 40m,
densely built area's without avatars 18+fps at 40+m, empty area's (all green
open field) 72-80fps at 120m. Especially with a lot of avatars in sight the
(still not very high) performance goes down. I agree that Roland should get
a better 3D engine. Mabye everyone should go search for a better engine and
give what they found to Roland, if he doesn't have time for it.

>
[View Quote]

Jan 4, 1999, 10:31am

Avatars rendering with the scene is just an option for those with world option access, although I think it should be in the user settings, as should an increase in the visibility limit of 120 meters.

[View Quote] > Your saying the new beta is going to lower the FPS by 25%??? Surely COF is not that stupid?
>
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Jan 4, 1999, 6:48pm

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Jan 4, 1999, 8:41pm

What're you babbling about?

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Jan 5, 1999, 11:15am

Yopu asked your rethorical question cuz you thought the answer is 'nobody',
right?
OK; but appearantly the answer should be 'plenty of ppl'.
So your rethorical question was not so rethorical after all...

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Jan 5, 1999, 2:16pm

i set it to 25 meters, go get a fps of around 0.5-3

cheese

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Jan 5, 1999, 6:45pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] No, you didn't. You seem to still be stuck on the sunroof instead of the engine. The engine should come first; not the sunroof. Dig?

> Pentium-rated 133MHz CPU and AW LAGS like shit on it. The earliest Pentium
> speed is, what, 60MHz? Now let's think here...either COF ups their minimum
> requirements, or they get a new engine because right now it's shit, dig?
> This ain't brain surgery to see why the engine is more important than all
> these shit fluff additions...
>
> I've got a P-200 + Hercules Stingray 128/3D, in AWGate I get 4-7fps at 40m,
> densely built area's without avatars 18+fps at 40+m, empty area's (all green
> open field) 72-80fps at 120m. Especially with a lot of avatars in sight the
> (still not very high) performance goes down.

Way to miss the point (yet again). Not everyone has a P200 and good 3D card. AW's minimum requirements are shit.

> I agree that Roland should get
> a better 3D engine. Mabye everyone should go search for a better engine and
> give what they found to Roland, if he doesn't have time for it.

No, what Roland needs to do is bug the shit out of Criterion to provide ADEQUATE RenderWare Direct3D drivers. You'd think after COF (although probably actually Worlds) paid, what, $10K (or a few $K to upgrade from version 2.0) for RenderWare 2.1 they'd at least want to get their money's worth. I already tried bugging them but I can only do so much since I don't actually have a license with them. COF should. I even posted about this on their listserve but Criterion never responded and some other people who paid big money for RenderWare were pretty pissed too. For all intensive purposes, RenderWare is dead.

Jan 5, 1999, 6:46pm

Well they there are damn plenty of idiots out there then...<shake head>

[View Quote] > Yopu asked your rethorical question cuz you thought the answer is 'nobody',
> right?
> OK; but appearantly the answer should be 'plenty of ppl'.
> So your rethorical question was not so rethorical after all...
>
[View Quote]

Jan 5, 1999, 11:38pm

But the car is running fine! Sure, the alternator whines a bit and she struggles up the tall hills- but if ya live in a flat state (ie, decently fast PC like celery 300+) and aren't obsessed about top speed, the sunroof makes better sense. Of course if you're into muscle cars, you wouldn't care about the air conditioner and power locks- It's mere preference anyhow. My point being, a huge % of the people would rather opt for keyless entry and a 10-disk changer than the V8! Just because you'd rather have a TV-like frame rate doesn't make it gospel. Although it is a rather good analogy- carries along pretty
far :-)

grover



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Jan 6, 1999, 2:14pm

[View Quote] How should we know it's rethorical?
And since when is it not *allowed* to answer a rethorical question?
As far as I know rethorical means that no answer is *needed*.
But in this case I think it *was* needed.

>I should've narrowed it down to:
>
>"What idiot (who uses 3D apps) would have a P2/350 WITHOUT hardware
acceleration?"

Another thing: why adress these ppl as idiots?
You'd rather adress them as "Unable to afford 3d-acceleration"
Try to be less offensive plz. I can't afford 3d-acceleration either.
Or I should consider not buying that new harddisk after all, so i *do* have
money for it.
But I need the new hd so bad, that without it 3d-acceleration is useless,
cuz I wouldn't have nuff space for installing games and apps that require
3d-acc. ;-)



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Jan 6, 1999, 2:17pm

[View Quote] Maybe you are 1 yourself to consider your behaviour the only right 1.
If you have 3d-acceleration that's very nice for you.
If I ain't got cuz I can't afford it, I don't think it makes me an idiot.

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Jan 6, 1999, 2:23pm

[View Quote] Oh? Since when?

> Sure, the alternator whines a bit and she struggles up the tall hills- but
if ya live in a flat > state (ie, decently fast PC like celery 300+) and
aren't obsessed about top speed, the sunroof
> makes better sense. Of course if you're into muscle cars, you wouldn't
care about the air
> conditioner and power locks- It's mere preference anyhow.

It doesn't really show, I think...

> My point being, a huge % of the
> people would rather opt for keyless entry and a 10-disk changer than the
V8!

Yeah right...
If you'd have to choose between 25fps and the current amount of "options and
accesories" or 2fps and a huge ammount of extra options what would you
choose?
Choosing between a normal motor an a V8 is a bad comparison. For aw-broweser
it's more like choosing between walking yourself or taking the car.. ;-)

> Just because you'd
> rather have a TV-like frame rate

Well not necessarily. If only it wouldn't look like a slide show, that be a
big improvement already.

> doesn't make it gospel. Although it is a rather good analogy-
> carries along pretty
> far :-)
>
>grover
>
>
>
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Jan 6, 1999, 2:46pm

For AW's minimum system requirements, AW runs like a Yugo with a 1-cylinder engine and no oil. Not everyone (in fact, most don't) have Celerons/300+ CPUs. The average computer is still around a Pentium 166MHz and 16MB RAM (MAYBE 32). The car is running (barely) like shit.

[View Quote] > But the car is running fine! Sure, the alternator whines a bit and she struggles up the tall hills- but if ya live in a flat state (ie, decently fast PC like celery 300+) and aren't obsessed about top speed, the sunroof makes better sense. Of course if you're into muscle cars, you wouldn't care about the air conditioner and power locks- It's mere preference anyhow. My point being, a huge % of the people would rather opt for keyless entry and a 10-disk changer than the V8! Just because you'd rather have a TV-like frame rate doesn't make it gospel. Although it is a rather good analogy- carries along pretty
> far :-)
>
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Jan 6, 1999, 2:49pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] There's NO reason not to have a 3D accelerator if you use 3D apps. Shit, you can get a piece-of-shit S3 DX-based vid card for $20 or less. If you can't afford that, you shouldn't even be owning a computer. Even good medium-to-high-end 3D cards are only around $100 these days. 3D is CHEAP!

Jan 6, 1999, 2:51pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] You seem to have a problem with basic reading comprehension. Not being able to AFFORD a 3D card doesn't make you an idiot. Using 3D apps WITHOUT a 3D card DOES. Read more carefully.

>

Jan 6, 1999, 6:39pm

[View Quote] Be more clear then.
You said "What idiot (who uses 3D apps) would have a P2/350 WITHOUT hardware
acceleration?"
And if you see AWB as a 3d-app I think you can call half of all the
aw-visitors idiots.
Or do you think I should stop using awb cuz I haven't got a 3d-card.
Actually I do have one, (Viper330) but unfortunately this card is not
supported, because it can't render in a window. Or do you mean 3dfx-cards
when you say 3d-cards? Well a Viper (or any other Direct3d-card) *is* not a
3dfx-card but it *is* a 3d-card.

P.S.: Talking problems: Appearantly you have a problem with basic human
communication.
You could be a little less offensive and short-tempered. (euphemism)

'nobody', right?
should've narrowed it down to:
hardware acceleration?"
what *you* think it is.
:) 3D cards are standard these days..
>

Jan 6, 1999, 6:42pm

[View Quote] So a S3-directx-based-video-card is what you mean when you say 3dcard?!?!?!
You also include directx when you say 3d-acceleration!?!?
Well that explains a lot.
Gimme a break...

Jan 6, 1999, 6:44pm

[View Quote] Well said!
I wonder what computer grover has actually.
"The car runs fine", HAH!
Appearantly we have different understandings of the word "fine" ;-)

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Jan 6, 1999, 7:37pm

Grover had a P100 until about 4 months ago. Now I have a PII-400. AW ran fine
on both. Needless to say, it runs better on the PII-400, but 90% of the time it
bogged down, it was because of idioticly agressive scenes (full of 25-frame
animations and 3000-vert objects) demanding so much RAM my hard drive went
a-chugging. RAM is much more important to AW than pure processing speed, imho-
Before the hard drive light came on, I rarely had a complaint with my P100.
3fps isn't good enough to play an action game, but AW ain't an action game so it
never bothered me.

grover

Besides, if you don't like yer car, you just buy one you like better, duh!

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Jan 6, 1999, 8:54pm

[View Quote] Well it does bother me.
And especially because it could be faster, but it is not.
I.o.w.: It is not as fast as it *could* be.



>Besides, if you don't like yer car, you just buy one you like better, duh!

Yeah right!
And if you feel like doing something funny today, you just buy Microsoft..
One little thingy: how do you pay it? Same for the new computer.... :-(


1-cylinder
> Well said!
> I wonder what computer grover has actually.
> "The car runs fine", HAH!
> Appearantly we have different understandings of the word "fine" ;-)

Jan 6, 1999, 8:59pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] Dude, you ARE an idiot. First of all, it's not "S3-directx-based-video card", but "S3 DX-based vid card". DX is a name of a 3D chip made by S3. They are VERY cheap (in price AND quality) but they are still 3D nonetheless. You seem to have extrapolation problems. Is English your native language?

Jan 6, 1999, 9:03pm

[View Quote] > Grover had a P100 until about 4 months ago. Now I have a PII-400. AW ran fine
> on both. Needless to say, it runs better on the PII-400, but 90% of the time it
> bogged down, it was because of idioticly agressive scenes (full of 25-frame
> animations and 3000-vert objects) demanding so much RAM my hard drive went
> a-chugging. RAM is much more important to AW than pure processing speed, imho-
> Before the hard drive light came on, I rarely had a complaint with my P100.
> 3fps isn't good enough to play an action game, but AW ain't an action game so it
> never bothered me.

Shyea right. AW ran like shit on your P100 and you know it. I have a Pentium-class AMD-K5-PR133 (99MHz) and AW runs like shit on it. Why are you defending AW so much? You know its 3D engine sucks so get off the debate stint, eh? CPU is the most important part in 3D rendering (and if AW supported 3D hardware better, the 3D CPU would be next important). RAM is secondary (or triary).

> Besides, if you don't like yer car, you just buy one you like better, duh!

Right, and in this case, the car is AW, not a computer. Changing analogies to try and prove your point ain't gonna work...

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Jan 6, 1999, 9:09pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] Um, how clearer can I BE? If YOU don't think AW is a 3D application, you truly ARE an idiot. Perhaps you need to go find out what computer 3D, and what Renderware, are. Then perhaps you'll get a clue. Start at http://tnlc.com/rw/ (my site) and you might just learn something...assuming you understand basic English...

> Or do you think I should stop using awb cuz I haven't got a 3d-card.
> Actually I do have one, (Viper330) but unfortunately this card is not
> supported, because it can't render in a window. Or do you mean 3dfx-cards
> when you say 3d-cards? Well a Viper (or any other Direct3d-card) *is* not a
> 3dfx-card but it *is* a 3d-card.

Nope, wrong again. You seem to have a problem with basic reading comprehension. If I MEANT 3Dfx cards, I would've STATED 3Dfx, but I didn't, did I? Nope. Stop reading more into what I'm stating. This ain't neurosurgery, sport. The Diamond V330 is too supported (just not well in the RenderWare Direct3D driver). The Riva 128 chip can't do rendering in a window? I thought only 3Dfx Voodoo/Voodoo² chips had that problem...

> P.S.: Talking problems: Appearantly you have a problem with basic human communication.
> You could be a little less offensive and short-tempered. (euphemism)

I communicate fine. You're the one who has problems with basic reading comprehension. And I offend when offended. Your ignorance and idiocy offend me. :)

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