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Feb 5, 1999, 9:04pm

can we feed it tourists? :)

[View Quote] > A Virtual Pet
> ------------------
>
> Create a bot that has a life cycle, learning abilities, must be fed, can be
> trained, mates and procreates, expresses itself in non-verbal emotions.
> Personally I would find an entirely new species more interesting than a
> virtual dog, cat or fish.
>
> I suspect this could be a revenue source if done well :)
>
> Archon Manus
>
[View Quote]

Sep 10, 1998, 9:23pm

Check your local library. In Penn State's library were several books
containing C and C++ compilers. One had a CD-ROM but was checked out
the entire semester... Another had a DOS-based C compiler that fit onto
a single floppy... But the best thing about finding a compiler in a book
like that it's free. Also, that it has step-to-step instructions if
your C++ is a bit rusty :-) Usually it will mention "electronic media
included" if there's a CD-ROM or floppy included with it.

grover

[View Quote] > any of you know where I can find a c compiler?

Sep 10, 1998, 11:03pm

I used to have borland 4... it was only win3.1 based (which at the time didn't
bother me cos i only had win3.1!) but that might explain the problems? I hate
to say it, but i definately like the "MS Visual" serries as far as usability
is concerned...

grover

[View Quote] > the book I got mine (Borland C++ 4.01) in (which don't seem to run the SDK
> sample proggie *humph*) was $34.95, I think... was packaged more like
> software, in a software store, but inside was a book about C, and included
> on the CD-ROM was PDF's of another book on C++... Never got around to
> reading too much of either... but I can do 'hello world' and probably
> something a bit more complicated (like writing a little calculator proggie
> maybe) without too much trouble.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 1999, 8:49pm

only problem is if you don't have "wrap long lines" checked, it goes as one continuous line off into the right margin without ant CRs...

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Feb 6, 1999, 8:35pm

Yeah! Why write programming languages that cater only to programmers? That'd be like giving an infant a book with no pictures <gasp!><eyeroll>

grover

[View Quote] > Yes, please stop calling everything a bot; it's annoying! It's why I groaned when first reading the SDK description which mainly mentioned bots. I figured: "Oh, great, now everyone and their grandmother are gonna have stupid, annoying greeter bots." And what happened? Yup...those damn things are everywhere. I originally wanted Hambot for tumblin' tumbleweeds in Utah world, but the complicated scripting language turned me off to Hambot so I've never done anything with it since. Why most programmers feel the need to make everything TEXT-based is beyond me. Not everyone is textual; some are actually graphical! <gasp!> <eyeroll>
>
[View Quote]

Feb 7, 1999, 1:33am

The problem with bots is that they're inherently mathematical
when you get to the core. And it's hard to write equations and
logical operations in a textual interface. Now the end result
should be user friendly- nobody ever said the bot itself must be
complex! But the SDK language itself is by necessity a
programming language. As would be any other scripting language.

Have you ever tried to use the scripting language The Palace
uses? heh, it's even harder to use than fortran or c! And in AW
would allow for a lot less flexibility. Perhaps you can persuade
HamFon to make a GUI scripting interface for Hambot that will
allow you to draw a picture of where you want it to go <shrug>
but until then, programming is inevitable...

grover

[View Quote] > I agree with Eep this time. I want to be able to use the
> program, also. I don't want to have to tell the programmer
> what I want because his interpretation of what I want might not
> always be exactly how I originally envisioned it, and he might
> get upset with me (or vice versa) because of creative
> differences. I would rather not have to learn a whole
> programming language in order to use a program.
>
> I know that Eep and I are not alone on this one. It is just
> that we are the only ones to vocalize it. Programs should be
> so simple that any ordinary person without programming skills
> should be able to use it. A car should be able to be driven
> by someone who is not mechanically inclined. The same is true
> for programs. They should be able to be used by more than
> just programmer.
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Oct 2, 1998, 11:08pm

I've been hearing feedback of the sort that the SDK isn't impossible to learn.
That most of the bugs have workarounds, and that nearly anyone with a C
compiler has created a bot. This is clearly not efficient! I think you should
scrap it, and write it for the accountants, not the users, like the software we
have to use at work. That way, you get to teach a boring 2-day course, just
like we had to sit through today, cos they scrapped the current system for one
that is twice as complex, completely ridiculous to operate, but keeps track of
every single nut and bolt! see... i think the theory is, "why should we give
the user a simple NT-based text box and <search> button, when instead we can
force him to open an telnet-esque interface screen and manually type in three
different filters before searching for a part number?"

grover

grover

[View Quote] > The SDK course will occur sometime after the SDK is released. It is still
> currently a beta version only. I wouldn't want to inflict beta software on
> my poor hapless students. :)
>
> -Roland
>
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 1999, 6:15pm

but would grover world be akin to boarwalk or park place? :-)

[View Quote] > What I envision is using world names instead of street names
> and railroads and Virtual chance cards (or whatever creative
> names we can come up with) that say stuff like "Go to The
> Void. Do not collect $200 VR bucks." or "You take a vacation
> to the Red Planet. Go to Mars. If it is unowned, you may buy
> it. If it is owned, pay twice the hotel fee." etc, etc, etc.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 21, 1999, 1:51am

For most community-based Monopoly varients, I think it has to do
with money... after that, I assume it's first-come, first-served
;-) That said, i bid $0, but ask for the "Boardwalk" position
<g>

grover

[View Quote] > very funny :-)
>
> Come to think of it, you have brought up a very good
> question. How do we make criteria for which worlds are
> included in the game and which are not?
>
>

Feb 21, 1999, 1:39pm

Naw, AW, meta, yellow & mars would make better railroads, i think...
i want boardwalk! waaaaaaaaa!!! (you can keep baltic, rjin- mind if
i camp out in your hotel lobby for a few years? here's $6 to cover
the rent :-)

grover

[View Quote] > Hah, I'd want Baltic Ave myself!
>
> Rjinswand
>
[View Quote]

Feb 21, 1999, 6:24pm

perhaps a lottery then, to determine placement after the groupings are made?

[View Quote] > You may wish to consider grouping the worlds using a 'theme' approach
> and not 'which is the better' (which would be different for most)
> Worlds... There shouldn't be a penalty placed on Worlds based on the
> skill of the Builder but on what they are attempting to 'say' with their
> world... Everyone... even the Master World Builders... were at one time
> fumbling with default objects, making 4 walls and a tree AND were dam
> proud of it when it was done...
>
> The Monopoly Board Game has classes of properties BUT it has ALL
> classes... Sure there should be some thot' for those Worlds that are
> outstanding. The Worlds that are 'a work in progress' shouldn't be
> dismissed out-a hand tho'...
>
> Not that you seemed to be going in that direction... Just wanted to get
> my 2 cents in before you started to make any decisions... :-)
>
[View Quote]

Feb 23, 1999, 10:24pm

Baudwalk, hehehe.... that's almost too great a pun to let slip by!

[View Quote] > It's BaudWalker...thankyou
>
[View Quote]

Feb 20, 1999, 6:23pm

That, and that AW is really only set up for avatars to be constantly moving. If the objects themselves were constantly being changed, then cache overhead would grow immensly (you'd have to update every cell constantly)
and AW would have to rebuild the scene every frame, therefore getting the same speed penalty as rendering avatars in-scene.

grover

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Feb 21, 1999, 3:10pm

Actually, i just meant the property server cache updates... it's only be a few hundred bytes/cell, but for constantly moving clouds in many cells at once adds up to quite a bit for people on slower connections.

grover

[View Quote] > Your cache would only grow if there were a large number of different types of clouds. If it were designed like the modular grounds there would be a small number of objects that would product a large number of effects based
> on their placement.
>
[View Quote]

May 3, 1998, 2:20pm

YES! if there were a wireframe mode on AW, the frame rate could fly, even for
the slowest computer... no more zbuffering, no more complex animated textures,
no more fps .1- and we could even keep avatar animation turned on, with
recognizable avatars :-)

grover

[View Quote] > Pointcloud... Hmmm Cool. :)
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at grovers.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
steve at synergycorp.com (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

May 18, 1998, 8:15pm

They means object commands that go in the <Action> block, Scott... not building
commands ;-)

grover

[View Quote] [View Quote]

--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at grovers.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
steve at synergycorp.com (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jun 30, 1998, 8:50pm

Renderware is simply a rendering library- it draws, in 3D what it is
told to. AW currently only has the user-interface to rotate objects
about the y-axis. btw, has anyone who's complaining about the lack of
an ability to rotate about the x or z axis actually tried doing it
manually in rwx? it never lines up!! if aw would let us rotate, no piece
would ever line up- there would be 3cm cracks every-freaking-where :(

grover

[View Quote] > Can Renderware support true 3D? Or is it just an AW limitation?
>
> ScottyDM
>
> --
> Scott D. Miller
> General Manager & Principal Consultant
> Arête, Ltd.
>
> Please use the return e-mail address of: scottydm at codenet.net



--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at synergycorp.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 2, 1998, 7:25pm

easy- take any sine or cosine of 15°, 45° or 75° (and at least one of 30° and
60°) and it's gonna come out to something other than an even 5cm. which means
CRACKS!. around the y-axis, we think we can get around this because the
arrow-key axis turns with the object. But in practice, the cache only goes
in 5cm increments, which means unless your object is angled at 90° to a major
axis, there will be cracks! I would like to see what kind of resolution
you're running at that you don't see these cracks ;-)

grover

[View Quote] > Always lines up for me. I would like to see what you're doing that is
> causing the "cracks" or misalignment.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at synergycorp.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 3, 1998, 4:40pm

OK, I see what you're saying here- you're using the overlap to cover up the
inherent cracks. Which works fine for 45° angles where you can overlap even
after snapping to the cm grid. But i'd sure like to see you do that with 15
30° 60° and 75°! It just isn't gonna happen :-(


______________
-------------------------------------
from the top-down it looks like this in the *best* case at these angles.
The cracks wouldn't be as apparent, but they'd still be there.
on a 4m wall, the distance seperating them would be:

with overlap:
15°,75°: 3.5cm lateral separation (along the world's x or z asix), 3.4cm at the
closest
30°,60°: 3.2cm lateral separation, 1.6cm at the closest

sure, it's only 1/2 of a shift-click, but it's still noticable, plain as day
unless you overlap to the extreme! And when that happens, UVs don't line up
correctly. rotating in 3 dimensions would onle accentuate this problem and
proper alignment would become nearly impossible.

grover

[View Quote] > If you're interested, I just set up an example of every angle possible in
> Active Worlds.
> You can find it in Beta world at 88n 88e made of a bunch of pp31.rwx
> objects.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at synergycorp.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 3, 1998, 5:03pm

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I looked at your beta world site- that's not what I meant exatly (I was picturing
the walls lined up in a row.) But nevertheless, whats the first think I saw? thats
right! cracks. a screen shot of the first corner in front of that teleport is
attached. And this isn't just a rendering problem- these cracks will nearly
*always* show up if a building isn't lined up with the y/z axis, for the reasons
I've stated. This is a good example of the people getting something they demanded
even though they didn't really understand the consequences of the demand.

btw, The display font text changed between composition and posting- the Ascii art
was meant to appear as below. I was also hasty on the numbers, forgot to flip them
to the other side as well. this is corrected:

[View Quote] > OK, I see what you're saying here- you're using the overlap to cover up the
> inherent cracks. Which works fine for 45° angles where you can overlap even
> after snapping to the cm grid. But i'd sure like to see you do that with 15
> 30° 60° and 75°! It just isn't gonna happen :-(
>
> ___________________________
> -------------------------------------
> from the top-down it looks like this in the *best* case at these angles.
> The cracks wouldn't be as apparent, but they'd still be there.
> on a 4m wall, the distance seperating them would be:
>
> with overlap:
> 15°,75°: 1.5cm lateral separation (along the world's x or z asix), 1.4cm at the
> closest
> 30°,60°: 1.8cm lateral separation, 0.8cm at the closest
>
> sure, it's only 1/2 of a shift-click, but it's still noticable, plain as day
> unless you overlap to the extreme! And when that happens, UVs don't line up
> correctly. rotating in 3 dimensions would onle accentuate this problem and
> proper alignment would become nearly impossible.
>
> grover
>
[View Quote]

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--------------9CFB20430C2BCA7A2C4A5D47--

Jul 4, 1998, 12:23pm

Only half-wrong ;-) It's geometrically incorrect because of an AW-cache
compromise. That is to say, the AW cache is incapable of saving geometically
correct values, which causes a lot of these cracks. One more thing to be added
to "The List®" Other cracks (notably the 1-pixel wide ones that appear and
dissapear as you move) *are* cause by RenderWare glitches tho.

[View Quote] > Actually, I would never use overlap to cover the cracks. The objects I set
> up in my example are geometricly correct, and therefore "should not" have
> any gaps between them. I have seen the same "cracks" between objects that
> had not been rotated from each other at all. Perhaps you can tell me what
> causes this and how you calculated the exact (or approximate) size of the
> cracks. I'm interested to know. I've always just figured this was a
> RenderWare display glitch and the the cracks would go away when they fix it.
> Was I wrong?
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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Jul 4, 1998, 12:46pm

Oh, forgot the calculation part, hehe. We know (from the beta group I think?) that
the AW cache saves position data in 5cm increments. This was chosen early on and
would be very difficult to change, so, for the foreseeable future, we're stuck with
it.
The values I calculated were the geometric dimensions of a rotate 4m long
object, with respect to the 5x5cm grid that has to mark the position. If I rotate
a 4m wide wall 15° it will now be 3.8637m of x-width and 1.0352m of z-width with
respect to this grid. The center of this object will always be centered on an even
5cm grid point, which leaves the ends (2m away from the center) at 1.93m and .5176m
respectively. Which, as you can see, are 2cm and 1.76cm from 5cm grid points.
This is doubled when you consider two panels are needed, and you can work out the
closest possible distance from there. Which means, even at the best odds, you will
still have a 1cm-x crack or a 1.48cm-z crack for this case.

grover

[View Quote] > Only half-wrong ;-) It's geometrically incorrect because of an AW-cache
> compromise. That is to say, the AW cache is incapable of saving geometically
> correct values, which causes a lot of these cracks. One more thing to be added
> to "The List®" Other cracks (notably the 1-pixel wide ones that appear and
> dissapear as you move) *are* cause by RenderWare glitches tho.
>
[View Quote]

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Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 5, 1998, 10:57am

no- not all values are being rounded off to 5cm, only the position of the
object. The object's individual vertices can be any value it wants to be
(probably single precision?). Which means, even though the object itself is
always at an even 5cm, the edges of the object aren't. They might be 2.11m
long. Which would make it impossible to line up two objects like this since,
placed end-to-end would both be 4cm (or 1cm, if overlapped) from the even 5cm
grid.
You see, with an object rotated by a small degree, the center would have to
be placed at a geometrically accurate position in order to prevent cracks. This
might need to be, lets say, 5.43219m from the y-axis. But AW can't position it
there. It instead places the object at 5.45m from the y-axis, creating a 1.8cm
crack.
Don't make me post a picture ;-)

grover

[View Quote] > This doesn't look quite right. If all of the vertices were being snapped to
> a 5cm grid, then there would either be no crack at all, or a crack that is a
> multiple of 5 centimeters.
>
> What I had figured might be happening is that RenderWare may be using
> somewhat rounded off figures for sine and cosine values. This is actually a
> standard practice for 3D rendering because sine and cosine calculations tend
> to be time consuming without the aid of a floating point coprocessor. For
> example, if the cosine of 15° is stored in a table for quick usage as 0.96
> and applied to a 10 meter length to calculate the resulting X dimension
> rather than carrying it out to the slightly more accurate value of 0.965925,
> the results will have a difference of 9.25 millimeters.
>
> As far as I can tell, there is no reason to store information about the
> positions of the objects edges since that information can (and I think,
> should) be derived from the information stored in the object, the location
> of the object's origin, and and any scaling, rotation, or transforms applied
> to the object. Since scaling and transforms are not presently supported
> from within Active Worlds, that leaves only rotation, and since that
> rotation is in only a single plane, a single number should be enough to
> accurately "store" the information. Therefore it would seam to me that the
> problem must be only in the rendering. Again, please tell me if you feel I
> am mistaken about this, and if so please explain why. I wish to understand
> this as well as I possibly can.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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Jul 6, 1998, 7:58pm

hehe... don't feel stupid- i've been using aw for almost exactly 3 years and
only figured this out a few months ago! :)

grover

[View Quote] > Okay. I understood you that time. Thanks for your patience... I'm really
> not usually that slow. :·)
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 9, 1998, 8:06pm

perhaps....

well, for the most case, the cracks are really small. A sliver of bright blue
or green is going to catch your eye, but a little fuzziness where UV's are
fighting over who gets the z-buffering trophy is gonna just get lost ;-)

grover

[View Quote] > Thanks.
>
> Well, perhaps when they change the format to allow for vertical rotation,
> they could also add a few more bits for storing the object's location.
>
> Curious thought... It seems to me that I've never seen overlap caused in
> that way. I wonder why.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
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May 7, 1998, 10:46pm

and an "away" mode... man, i can't count the number of times I come back to the
compuer and see 8 messages from someone, sent 30 seconds apart, all asking "why
don't you answer, dammit!" and end with "and f*ck you too, for ignoring me!"


grover

you'd think Lucrezia would be more polite <g>
[View Quote] > The ubiquitous green checkmark haunts my dreams.
> For sanity's sake, give us a way to turn it off, dammit!
>
> In article <35518f17.0 at sundev>, Princess_tia at ~hotmail.com says...



--
_______________________________________________________________
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steve at synergycorp.com (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

May 3, 1998, 3:26pm

STOP! ActiveWorlds is going to start charging an extra $.10 per telegram. For
every person you send this telegram to, you will get one free credit.

[View Quote] > sing a-long with Monty Python
>
> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM........
>
> Eep² <eep at tnlc.com> wrote in article <354971AD.152EDDEE at tnlc.com>...
> be available along with it.



--
_______________________________________________________________
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steve at synergycorp.com (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
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May 6, 1998, 6:40pm

or would it be easier to "capture" a TCP packet, get the right location info from that, and work the rest of the objects mathematically from that original object, sending fresh packets right to the server straight from Robo? wouldn't even lag up aw while it's running <g>

grover

[View Quote] > Since i am the one that pointed this bug out to you, i do know all about
> it and how to work around it( not many workarounds). The 5 key does not
> stop it....actually a bug in the handling of this key also.....and the
> "Reverse Direction" method does not work either....if i move the object
> 100 clicks up i have to give the Avatar 100 clicks down to compensate
> for it....and these NEVER match up....never a 1 to 1 relationship...:(
> Believe me it gets deep....:) If the keyboard handler was just fixed
> in the first place, lot's would be nice..:) I've been plugging
> away at this little quirp for over a year now..:( Just been waiting,
> and hoping Roland can make the little "tweek" to fix it.....:) I'm
> only speculating that it is something that NEEDS to be fixed, only
> because of the strange way Windows Messaging handles the problem also.
> Anyone else that has actually written code to solve this, i would
> appreciate hearing from them...:)
>
> Leo :) aka BinaryBud
>
[View Quote]

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_______________________________________________________________
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steve at grovers.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
steve at synergycorp.com (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

May 3, 1998, 1:47pm

No, i think street4 should be an L, street5 a 90° curve, street6 a T, street7 a
dead-end and street 8 a square without sidewalks. And they should all be textured and
with more realistic lines, yet exactly the same dimensions as the AW streets so that
there aren't any complications! Oh wait, those are the streets I did a while back for
genesis... never mind ;-)

grover

[View Quote] > oh yeah, and curves... well, they can be faked quite well, check Eep's
> property for some real nice smooth gentle curves, or <shameless plug>
> check my Building Tips page
> (http://home.earthlink.net/~dthknight/aw/tips.html) for a way to do ones
> that look OK and curve faster than Eep's do.
>
[View Quote]

--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at grovers.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
steve at synergycorp.com (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

May 3, 1998, 1:52pm

I think an obvious tack-on to this would be for multiple-channel wavs in
general- so that then the little "Ding! you have a telegram" played, the wavs in
the background would still be heard. And if this code were added, theres no
reason to leave the background wavs as one-at-a-time, and they could be fully
mixed. Eventually, going to the point where voice could be added in there too,
for a true-party-line <g> well, that last part might be for 3.0, but multiple
wav channels simultaneously would be nice!


grover



[View Quote] > We were discussing audible notifications.
>
> Paul
>
[View Quote]

--
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.grovers.com/ ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-.__
steve at grovers.com `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.`)
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