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May 4, 1998, 6:46pm

How so? all the street objects are basically a variation on the same theme- the L has
sidewalks on two adjacent sides, the straight piece on opposite sides, etc. Would the
cul-de-sac be sidewalks on 3 sides (like street 7), or did you mean something else?

grover

[View Quote] > What about making a cul de sac street object?
>
[View Quote]

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May 5, 1998, 12:24am

oh, I thought you meant a 10x10 street variation, Dean (yeah, I know what a cul-de-sac is, hehe). Would three semicircles and a T
be close enough to it? of course there'd be a small island in the middle of it... good place for a tree? <shrug> I think 8 "basic"
pieces might be a good place to draw the line for the sake of bandwidth... the original 2've done pretty good anyhow!

[View Quote] > A culdesac object would have to be larger than a 10m x 10m street. Four 10m x 10m 1/4-circle street objects should do it, or more.
>
[View Quote]

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May 5, 1998, 11:47pm

So what you're saying is that the AW executable has, all along, just been
accidentally compressed using jpg compression, and THAT is what's been causing
all these errors? Maybe if AW used pkzip instead! <ducking the flying
off-topic message deleters>

grover

[View Quote] > The reason JPG is able to compress so well is that it uses mathematical
> formulas to extrapolate approximations of some parts of the image from other
> parts of the image. That way, only part of the image needs to be stored to
> get an aproximation of the whole image. The more you compress the image
> file, the more loss there is, and the less it looks like the original.
> Using a compression scheme that has no loss at all, you could encode a text
> file, or even an executable file into the pixels of an image, and after
> compression and decompression you could extract the original file and it
> would be exactly as it was before you started. Using JPG for the same
> purpose, it is unlikely that you would even recognize the file if you got
> any reasonable amount of compression at all.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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May 6, 1998, 7:16pm

I'm sure there's a reason for it the way it is, but I don't like the way
the send telegram window prevents access of anything else on aw while
it's being typed, then waiting to finish sending. Could it be made
non-modal? pleez? While i'm on it, an "out" box for telegrams would be
nice too, I can never remember what I've sent to ppl, hehe.

grover

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May 7, 1998, 10:42pm

I have a "to do" list for a large program i'm writing at work... It's only
been in the writing for about 6 weeks, and the list contains over 300
seperate items! But i'm slowly sifting it down, and it's just to 15 to-do
items right now. (I got all the "deficiancies" from the 1995 programmers
report fixed+, but only 2 of the original "wish list" the non-programmers
wrote up, LOL.) But, the #1 thing about it is to write all the ideas+bugs
down so they can be tackled as I get time or sudden flashed of inspiration.
If I were Roland, i'd just lurk in here, silently writing down ideas... if
you *talk* to people, its too easy to get bogged down trying to please
everyone, hehe

grover

[View Quote] > It's an actual list. Ask Roland.
>
[View Quote]

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Nov 2, 1998, 7:42pm

http://www.grovers.com/avatars/rwav.html should get ya started... :)
grover

[View Quote] > I want to know how to make avs...
>
[View Quote]

May 12, 1998, 7:54pm

"Polyhedron" is a perfectly valid word describing an entire family of 3d shapes. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it wrong. Same thing with programming. Writing "hello world" in pascal does not make you an authority on complex
client-server relationships.
Hey, maybe you'll come accross the world "polyhedron" when you take geometry in 10th grade next year!

grover


[View Quote] > Just a bit. Now explain what crack you're smoking and why you want polyhedral (is that even a word?) multiple object selection. Start typing in plain English, bub. Stop overfilling what you're trying to say with redundant nonsense and just type the POINT.
>
[View Quote]

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May 12, 1998, 10:27pm

<HTML>
That's the first thing you've said in weeks that makes any sense at all!!&nbsp;
"polyhedral" is an
<BR>adjective describing a shape to have "polyhedron"-like properties.&nbsp;
I used "polyhedron"
<BR>because its the more commonly used variant.&nbsp; And polyhedron is
simply a generic term
<BR>for almost any faceted 3d shape.&nbsp; "poly", meaning "many", and
"hedron" meaning
<BR>something in greek.&nbsp; Probably "sides" but I'm not sure ;-)&nbsp;
The gist is, that a square, a
<BR>rhomboid, and even rwx's faceted interpretation of a parabaloid are
all polyhedra!
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As to "trying to understan<I>t</I>"... get a dictionary,
champ!

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, lost in this bickering thread was the
original suggestion that aw group-select do a sort of "enclosure" defined
by just a few clicked objects.&nbsp; Can you delete this message, Roland?

<P>grover

[View Quote] [View Quote] <P>> "Polyhedron" is a perfectly valid word describing an entire family
of 3d shapes.&nbsp; Just because you don't understand something doesn't
make it wrong.&nbsp; Same thing with programming.&nbsp; Writing "hello
world" in pascal does not make you an authority on complex
<BR>> client-server relationships.
<BR>>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hey, maybe you'll come accross the world
"polyhedron" when you take geometry in 10th grade next year!
<BR>>
[View Quote] <P>--
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May 13, 1998, 7:28pm

I wish the Update window showed up on the task bar... seems like every
update I hafta minimize a half dozen windows to get to it, hehe

grover

May 16, 1998, 10:48pm

The avatars are rendered on top for speed reasons. As it is now, the scene
with objects only needs to be rebuilt whenever the visibility range
changes, or new objects are added. But rebuilding the scene for every
frame takes a lot more time than simply rendering it does... Thus, the
scene is only rendered as necessary, and doesn't need to be rebuilt every
time an av moves. But the avatars, necessarily, are placed in a scene of
their own which is rebuilt and rendered on top for every frame. Its not
the best visually, but increases the frame rate by a lot...

grover

[View Quote] > If an avatar is standing on the other side of a wall from you, you can
> still see it. Is it possible to turn that off so that you have to look
> around the wall to see the other avatar? Same is true for avatars
> underground. It would make "hide n' seek" games much more fun and
> challanging...
> --
> §~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> § Rehabber of Cyberia
> § http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/pier/3361
> §~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> § Far away from this life that you're living,
> § You will find a whole new beginning....
> §~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



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May 18, 1998, 6:42pm

Or better yet: if graphics accellerators keep going in the direction they're
going, rwx might be able to soon render completely on the card with very little
actual processor. (which actually defeats the whole point of critereon's
approach to accelleration, but oh well!). At that point, AW might be able to
spare the processor time to re-build the scene at 30fps or so which would
probably be the best possible scenario!
Or as a stop-gap, maybe have "rings"? a ring of objects 50-80m away would
be built as a scene on top of a scene of objects 80-120m away. At that
distance, the z-buffering problems may be minimal. And only objects closer than
50m would have to be rebuilt every scene. Oh well, just a thought... this is
the wishlist after all!

grover

[View Quote] > Perhaps rather than rebuilding the scene, the proposed feature could be
> added by allowing AW to simply check the line-of-sight path your position to
> an avatar's position before deciding weather or not to render that avatar at
> all. This would have the side effect of making avatars disapear "all at
> once" as they go behind a wall, but in general would serve the intended
> purpose.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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May 17, 1998, 2:19pm

but wait- isn't this exactly the kind of software most employers were trying to
prevent their employees from using when they installed the firewalls in the first
place? hehe

grover

[View Quote] > it's already supported in 2.0 =)
>
> F.
>
[View Quote]

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May 17, 1998, 7:50pm

email roland at activeworlds.com and ask to be a beta tester. You'll get
the latest builds as soon as they come off the compiler, without having
to wait until the final, completed version. The catch? The betas are,
by definition, un-tested and usually full of bugs. If you're a
beta-tester, you have to accept this, and are more-or-less obligated to
try your best to report any problems in a helpful way so that they can
be fixed :-)

have fun!
grover

[View Quote] >
> And how do I get 2.0?
>
> I have 1.32
>
> Daniel
>
> firewall..



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May 18, 1998, 6:49pm

all that might already in place (if i understand a prior thread from the
beta NG correctly)... If the world names are larger than the listbox
allows, the windows API will automatically show a "tool tip" describing
the entire contents of that item in the listbox. So, it would just be a
matter of allowing the world names to be longer!

grover

[View Quote] > I agree wholeheartedly, TF
> you work at MP/d?
>
> Term Freak <joe at microsoft> wrote...



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May 24, 1998, 8:17pm

You can delete your messages if you want, ya know... Then nobody could hear
your tantrum!

grover

[View Quote] > DANG.... stupid MSnews!!!!! I GOT RID OF THE TC PART IN MY ORGINIZATION...
> so now I can't trust my news client
>
> *hits himself on the head reeeeeeal hard*



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May 31, 1998, 1:27pm

Or that roving camera idea that keeps popping up- maybe a pre-set would be from
a few meters in front of me?

grover

[View Quote] > Heres another idea
> why not have another tyab called avatars which has the list of the avs
> you click on the av ot use it double click it to view it in a seperate
> render window so you can see what it looks like and puts a stoop to the
> question what do I look like?
[View Quote]

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Jun 14, 1998, 11:49am

Actually, I like that feature of private worlds, in a wierd way... When I want
to recache, I click on a closed world, which unlogs me from the world i'm in,
and bounces me back right away. Otherwise, I would be stuck for 30-60 seconds
while my PC tried to catch up with the new world, teleport "back", and catch up
with the original world... Maybe just a "re-cache" button in option somewhere?
hehe

[View Quote] > I actually tested this (and upset a few people in doing so) before 2.0 was
> released, and fould that if you didn't have objects cached in advance,
> entering a 1.3 world in this manor would not allow you to cache any new
> objects, but WOULD allow you to get in and walk around and in some cases
> hear people and talk to people... However, since this means of entering a
> world does not seam to work for 2.0 worlds, it upgrading the world should
> solve the problem... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll go back
> to testing it.
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

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Jun 22, 1998, 11:12pm

The filter macro:
fuck --> love ("love you!!")
shit --> poopoo (that's a great picture, ain't it??)
ass --> ass (who cares?)
actually, i started typing in others... it seems like fuck+shit are the only
words with any taboo anymore... I'll give 'em another 5 years of shows like
"South Park" before people stop caring altogether :)

grover

[View Quote] > When you think about it, it would be funny :)
[View Quote]

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Jun 17, 1998, 8:43pm

The automatic movement cycles once every time period, which is at 60 seconds. If, during
that time period, you walk, or press one of the action buttons, the movements saved in
that button override the automatic motion. Some of the seqs have been optimized with
limbcvrt.exe (long lost), so as not to override others parts without cause- this is why
you can press the "wave" button, and wave while caldius is lying down, for example. But
once that motion is over, the wait motion begins again where it left off. If we'd make
custom seqs, and sit with a stopwatch timing it, i'm sure we could nail down the exact
protocol and times ;-)

grover

[View Quote] > I don't know if this was already implied before, but here is my two cents on this:
> Yes, I use the Butch avatar almost all the time (I dunno, I just liked him the first
> time I saw him and used him ever since). When you press one of the buttons, say
> "Wave," Butch usually finishes the "automatic" actions first, and than does the
> command that you pressed (or if he did not, try it once more). And you are right,
> the Birde/Birdie avatar does "recycle" .SEQ files by use the flap.seq without
> pressing the button. What all this reminds me of it like when you are playing a
> video game (wiether it be console or on the computer) and you do not do anything for
> a while, the character gets bored and does something to "notify" or "wake-up" the
> player. Well, do we actually do this in real life when we are bored? A child (I do
> not mean to stereotype here, I'm just using this as an example) might make and throw
> a paper airplane when they are bored or just waiting around. Is it so unrealistic?
> Just think what you might do when you are bored or tired and see how realistic it
> is. Since the whole post is mainly about realistic(s), just carefully examine the
> avatars and their animations, and see if, even distantly, you can somehow relate to
> them/their action(s) in real life. In short, compare yourself to the animation and
> than see how unrealistic it is.
>
> -Builderz
>
[View Quote]

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Jun 18, 1998, 7:40pm

imho, avatars standing straight at attention would be even more unrealistic. As it is,
only a few avatars move in unison. You may not like the "wait" routines, but it's
amazing how much they add to what would otherwise be a nearly static scene!
btw, my last post wasn't a suggestion, it was a statement of what is existing right
now!

grover

[View Quote] > It's unrealistic.
>
> zer0
>
[View Quote]

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Jun 22, 1998, 11:16pm

on the contrary, i think the *minimum* requirement for AW seems to be a
300MHz Pent II with an ethernet... why intentionally bring yourself down to
frame rates of < 1/sec?? There are still people out there using 486s you
know...

grover

[View Quote] > There are probably many of you out there who have good/new computers and
> who wish the program could be more oriented to a fast processor audience
> then a Pent 100...
>
> There are no settings, or only very little, to make the visuals much
> better... for example avatar hiding as explained in Re:avatar visibility
> in this newsgroup.
>
> This program gives an occasion to use the full potential of a Pent II
> 300MHz with a good graphics card and an Ethernet network on a fractional
> T1...
>
> Skander...



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Jun 24, 1998, 9:21pm

actually, the garbled it a bit, but I think I understand what you mean, hehe ;-)
The only problem is that pieces being to lose their geometry at higher angles.
Once you pass 45° it becomes terribly out-of-proportion; UV's get skewed, 3D
objects look blatantly wrong to the casual viewer, etc. (There is a need for
vertical scaling too, to put the object at an even 5 or 50cm interval.) And
again. we start to run into problems where it takes a human to figure out how to
scale it correctly to make it look good. And all this is very difficult to
retrofit to existing cache files :-( But your idea works great for retrofitting
existing objects! In fact, that's the same method I've used to make roller
coasters in the past ;-)

grover


[View Quote] > *sees references to 45-90-45 triangles and shudders* If it wasn't in so
> much mumbo-jumbo it probably would :) reads a bit like one of Byte's
> run-on sentences :)
>
[View Quote]

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Nov 6, 1998, 7:31pm

Rendering avatars with realisting position is not a problem from the programming
standpoint. It would require pretty much just copying/pasteing some code from one
sub to another. The problem is the speed tradeoff: to render the avatars like you
want would slow down fps by about 10x!! The dynamics of 3D rendering are a lot more
complex than they appear.... Which is why the avs are simply rendered on top.

grover

[View Quote] > I agree, no names...also an option to make avitars not show through walls, or at
> least one for bots... seeing someone through 30m of rock seems like a little
> hole in realism to me!
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 1998, 11:23am

I think there may be a lot mroe than you think, zer0- most families would have
multiple accounts (I don't know of any kid who wouldn't *beg* to do this if
they saw mommy or daddy on here ;-). And universitys as well often have many
people sharing the same PCs.

grover

[View Quote] > Sounds good, but it is sort of special... I think most of us are the
> only AW user on any one system or AW install...
>
> Might make it a low priority for Roland.
>
> zer0 :)
>
[View Quote]

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Jul 1, 1998, 7:08pm

NO, it doesn't work. think about it, would *you* send this guy $20? and
YES, IT IS ILLEGAL IN THE US!!!!

grover

[View Quote] > I wish I knew if that "fast cash" scheem really worked and was legal. I
> need to know. PLEASE, if you have info. on it tell me........thanks



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Jul 5, 1998, 10:41pm

as the decimal tipped you off, the 6x6 lots won't break up nicely. You'll have a
number of 60x60m lots, but then you'll have a few odd-size lots, like 120x20m,
and an L-shaped lot. If you picked lot sizes that were an even multiple of
500m, it might work out nicer. For instance, you could also get:

100 50x50m (5x5) lots
25 100x100m (10x10) lots
4 250x250m (25x25) lots

[View Quote] > Hi again :)
>
> 6x6=36 , 36x100=3600 , 250000/3600=69,444~69
>
> That will be 69 lots for you, if my math is correct :)
>
> Terri Wisti skrev i meddelandet <35a0105b.0 at homer>...



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Jul 9, 1998, 8:11pm

yeah... that would be nice :-( But until then, if you hit the remember
teleport button, it will save the *exact* location you're standing. Look at
teleport.txt to get the # :) or, alternately, you can walk to the edge of
the grid, and look carefully where the coordinates change. From there, you
can just could the # of clicks, and get a pretty good number from that too.

grover

[View Quote] > One thing I've learned in a very short time is that 75N 75E covers alot
> of ground, especially when trying to position a warp gate. It would be
> nice if the coordinates of our position could be shown down to the first
> digit ... i.e. 75.4N, etc.



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___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 9, 1998, 8:09pm

I like that :) hey! maybe we could eventually have an option for multiple 3D
windows, so we could be 2 places at once? :)

grover

[View Quote] > Mmmm...
> mirrors me and a firend discuess this wouldn't be to hard according ot
> how I said how we could program mirros :)
> also for the viewing avatar I had another idea (please refer to the
> following image.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image]



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(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Custom Objects and Avatars! _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
___________________________(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'__________

Jul 21, 1998, 11:29pm

Actually, I was in WC before i came to AW! WC was brand new at the time,
too... In fact, i think i remember the update where they added the mirror.
That's not really a VR "mirror" tho, zer0- it was just an illusion concocted
to look like a mirror. AW can do the same thing, graphical-wize. WC just
added the sprite to it, to make you think you saw yourself :-) Unless they
added more to it since I've been there, it was never able to show any
avatars other than your own...

grover

[View Quote] > I guess none of you have ever been to the first Virtual Chat environment
> Worlds.Inc produced...
>
> If you go to WC (Worlds Chat Gold) as a registered user and teleport
> into the "Glee" pod... go through the Door into the hallway and look for
> the room named "Glee". As you enter the room you will see your avatar in
> a large mirror. Fairly realistic. If you go into the mirror there is a
> sound of crashing glass and you land in a maze. If you turn around and
> face the mirror again you do not see you avatar, but you can see anyone
> that is on the other side viewing their reflection (one way mirror
> too!).
>
> This is not new stuff... very old stuff... it was even there before the
> release of WC. It is at least as old as AW itself!
>
> Later!
>
> zer0

Jul 21, 1998, 11:49pm

i'm pretty sure AW was at least in limited beta testing before they put
the mirror in WC... still would be a nice feature tho! but a roving 3D
camera might be a better solution?

grover

[View Quote] > Ha... I remember that room... I thot' my Penguin body (Avatar) was
> rather dashing at the time... Ya... It's been mentioned before that a
> mirror was in Worlds Chat long before Alpha... Would be nice if we
> could have this feature in Alpha too...
>
[View Quote]

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