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Aug 31, 2002, 9:13pm

I see from the cy nominations that Mountain Myst has over ruled the rules
and regulations for whatever reason she decided to, i quote;

"After various processes of checking and rechecking to make sure the
nominations are correct, here is a list of nominations that do not qualify
for this run of the Cy and therefore should be considered ineligible to vote
for."

The full list is posted on url:

http://www.haveman.net/cyawards/forum/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=4&TID=1
5&SID=3071


To my own way of looking at this it seems the rules can be changed at any
time, any place and for what ever reason.

The point of having any rule/regulation is that all are aware of procedures
and how they work. Whats the point of having and of them if they can be
changed at the whim of someones prefrence.

Aug 31, 2002, 9:16pm

sorry folks it seems that url will not link. I will post the relevent
article:

After various processes of checking and rechecking to make sure the
nominations are correct, here is a list of nominations that do not qualify
for this run of the Cy and therefore should be considered ineligible to vote
for. The rule violation each violates is listed to the side, and the rules
were authorized by Alpha Bit some time ago. This posting is in accordince
with MM's orders to continue any team operations in progress. If you wish to
discuss why you or someone else was kicked off the list, you may either
contact Cyberwitch, Weebo, or Wizard 24. Here they are-
Community Development in Architecture/Urban Planning/Design-
Baro (Member of Selection Committee)
Maka (CyTeam Committee Head)

Community Development in Technical Enhancements-
HamFon (HamFon won category previously, Corperate Product)
Brant (Brant won category previously)
9 9 9 (Corperate Product)

Community Initiative in Community Groups/Activities and Events-
AWBingo Team (Includes Head of a CyTeam Committee)
IHNK (CyTeam Committee Head)
Maka (CyTeam Committee Head)

Community Initiative in Community Leadership/Participation-
Daphne (Member of Selection Committee)
Nornny11 (Member of Selection Committee)
Bille (Member of Selection Committee)
Cyberwitch (CyTeam Committee Head)
MrGrimm (Corperate Product)
E N Z O (Corperate Product)
Mountain Myst (Corperate Product)
Maggie4real (Corperate Product)

Creative Vision & Application Object Design/Texture Application-
Baro (Member of Selection Committee)
King Tex (CyTeam Committee Head)
Lady Murasaki (Lady Murasaki won category previously)
MrGrimm (Corperate Product)

Creative Vision & Application in Innovative Design-
Peacfrog (Member of CyTeam Executive Committee and won category previously)
MrGrimm (Corperate Product)

Creative Vision & Application Avatar Development-
Insanity (Member of Selection Committee and won category previously)
Peacfrog (Member of CyTeam Executive Committee)
Lady Murasaki (Lady Murasaki won category previously)
MrGrimm (Corperate Product)

Creative Vision & Application for an ActiveWorlds Web Site-
SW Comit (www.swcity.net won category previously)

Creative Vision & Application Environment Design in a Public Building World-
TheBeans (Invalid Entry)
Alucard (Invalid Entry)
OneSummer and Just In (OneSummer won category previously, invalid entry)
AD&DRPG (Invalid Entry)
TishKum (Invalid Entry)
Flagg (Corperate Product)


Creative Vision & Application Environment Design in a Greater Universe
World-
Posh (Posh won category previously)
AWTeen (Invalid Entry)
AW (Invalid Entry)
MrGrimm (Corperate Product)

Creative Vision & Application for a Virtual Art Project-
MrGrimm (Corperate Product)

Write-In Category- (By write-in title)
Volunteering in all community events building birthday sites for the people
of ActiveWorlds (Includes Head of a CyTeam Committee)
Community Worker (Includes Head of a CyTeam Committee)
Roland (Corperate Product)
for perseverence (Corperate Product)

Many (but not all) of these exclusions are defined in the posted rules on
this website. For some reason, not all of the authorized rules were posted.
Many exclusions are due to the power of influence and/or the place in the
process of voting. I will be out of town for some weeks, so Wizard 24 will
take my place during that time. Have a nice summer!

-Tauntaun (Head of Rules Team)

P.S.- (Small note) The nomination www.swcity.net was not ruled out because
of the person being nominated for the website, but rather a testimony
revealed that Syntax is rather the webmaster and creator of that work, and
won the Cy for that website even during the last Cy run.

P.S.S.- I don't know who is incharge of the nomination list for the
selection committee... but it should be changed ASAP. Only a direct
executive order can bring back a nomination above.



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Aug 31, 2002, 9:27pm

[View Quote] >sorry folks it seems that url will not link. I will post the relevent article:
>

Works if you turn off word wrapping

http://www.haveman.net/cyawards/forum/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=4&TID=15&SID=3071

Aug 31, 2002, 9:31pm

cheers tony ^^


[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 1:27am

I did read that post made in the forum, and also the reply made by AlphaBit
directly after that post. Taking that into consideration, and knowing that
your Selection Committee would have also taken that into consideration, I
tabulated the votes submitted to me by your Selection Committee and
proceeded from there. There are actually very few remaining on the final
nominations list that were on this possible potential objection list. If you
feel that they should not be considered for whatever reason, you do not have
to vote for them. :) I believe the Selection Committee did a great job in
evaluating ALL of the nominees..... and should be commended for the daunting
task that they successfully completed.

I want to congratulate everyone who received a nomination. You are what make
the AW community the great place that it is! I also want to congratulate all
of the final candidates. Good luck to each of you.

Thank you to the Cy Awards Team who has done an incredible job of putting
this event together. The awards ceremony in October is going to be great!
See you all then!

--
Warm Regards,
Kellie Williams/Mountain Myst

Sep 1, 2002, 8:31am

Really I must be blind


[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 10:54am

I will follow your advice, not vote at all.


[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 1:01pm

I think it's funny that "supposedly" filmkr is on that committee and heartfall just
happens to be on that final list too. Aren't committee members of ANY event, virtual
or real, supposed to be exempt from winning an award? There's complications why that
is.

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 1:29pm

It's a list of people disqualified from voting. Read the post.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 1:29pm

I take that back, disqualified from being voted for.

[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 3:38pm

I was told that was not a kick off list but it does look like it is and
some of the names on there now show up on the voters page hummmm there is
reason for that too
[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 4:25pm

Yes but why was the rules and regulation overruled by you?? I quote:

"After various processes of checking and rechecking to make sure the
nominations are correct, here is a list of nominations that do not qualify
for this run of the Cy and therefore should be considered ineligible to vote
for. The rule violation each violates is listed to the side, and the rules
were authorized by Alpha Bit some time ago. This posting is in accordance
with MM's orders to continue any team operations in progress."

You refer to the selection committee quite a lot, but the above statement
very clearly states the acceptance of all Cy rules and regulations. With
your authorization fully.

It seem to indicate from your posting that the selection committee did not
feel any other nominations worthy, hence you overruled any cy rules to, I
quote;

"There are actually very few remaining on the final
nominations list that were on this possible potential objection list"

Which means,the rules and regulation or void if it does not meet your
requirements?

To me there is loop holes and clauses never seen to the community at large.
If a rule exsists, keep it.

Sep 1, 2002, 7:13pm

Telegram from Baron von Shrike, sent just now:
Hi. I'm having trouble setting up Outlook to post and wonder if you'd mind
passing this on on my behalf?:

A quick fix to the controversy surrounding the cy nominations would be to
dispense with the selection committee altogether and use the originally
submitted nominations list as a voting list. Voters could then email their
ballots and, with only one person tallying the results, I'm certain that all
would agree that a fair set of results would be obtained.

[View Quote]

Sep 1, 2002, 9:16pm

**spoof**

By all means, use the original submitted nominations as the voting list!!!

EVERYONE, go over the Nominations page then send your votes to Baron
VonShrike if you can figure out just what the hundreds of nominations are
for, where they are actually located so you can view every one of them and
if they actually do belong under the catagory they were nominated under...

Actually we expect Baron VonShrike to make every effort to decifer all the
nominations, find their actual locations and verify the reason for their
being nominated. Then he will update the nominations list with that info;
or at least update his nominations list with that info and use it for
verification purposes as he does the job of handling nominations...

We expect Baron VonShrike to make sure all nominations he accepts votes for
ARE actually in the catagory they belong in because he can't really expect
or trust the voters to have done the checking...

Then Baron VonShrike is to go though all the votes that have passed that
criteria to be sure that the person that voted for each nomination has
indeed been there to see it.. Baron VonShrike is not allowed to take their
word for it even though trust was implied by allowing them to vote.. He must
be sure they can prove they went to each place they voted for.. (A jpg sent
to Baron VonShrike of each voter at each site they voted for would propably
be proof enough but they should try not to make them real big in size
because, if all do their job, Baron VonShrike will probably be getting
thousands of jpgs as proof.)

Once all votes have passed the requirements, Baron VonShrike will then tally
all the votes for each nomination under each catagory then announce who the
winner of each catagory is.

Make sure you go to each site though and provide proof that you did view it
because even if we HAD voted for you to BE the ones to do that job, that
doesn't mean we will trust you to have done it...

Enjoy the hours and days of world hopping and location hopping that await
you!!!

**end of spoof**

I did get a very good suggestion from Goober King just a while ago and will
be putting it to the Cy Committee... The suggestion is that the persons on
the Selection Committee send a telegram to the creator of each nominated
site they visit, when they visit, and let them know they were/are there...

Viewing the sites was not meant to be a social call and having to send out
telegrams will add time to the already time-consuming job, but if it will
keep ppl from accusing the Selection Committee of not doing their job, then
it would be time well-spent...

*hugs*
Daphne

Sep 2, 2002, 12:17pm

The community voted under the posted rules and procedures, and were never
informed that the rules were changing. The Cy web site still has the
original Rules and Procedures posted. Messages in a discussion forum are
not official Rules and Procedures for a contest. They're also nebulous --
there's nothing in the forum that says for sure that the rules changed.

The Rules and Procedures clearly state that Selection Committee members are
not eligible to be nominated or to win an award. Yet 3 Selection Committee
members have been nominated. That's 3 chances for being nominated and
winning an award that people who are eligible are being denied.

The community voted under the belief that the Rules and Procedures posted on
the Awards site would be followed. You just can't post a set of rules, have
the community vote, and then change the rules. It's outrageous.

If one -- or even a few -- people are going to make -- and change -- the
rules at will, the community has a right to know, so that we can decide if
we wish to continue to participate in your awards program.

Kerstin
(formerly ambivalent)

Sep 2, 2002, 2:59pm

Hi Kerstin

AS MM has stated, I quote:

There are actually very few remaining on the final
nominations list that were on this possible potential objection list"

and that

"You dont have to vote for them"

Just a dam shame that close contenders had to be removed to make way for
rule changes at the last second.

I can proberly say all this rapid changing to fit will now be ignored,
washed and cleaned.

To me its just one big mess or rule changing to suit,

Perhaps some course in project managment is needed, as the organisational
skills are non exsistent.


Even AP states to GooberKing;

When [this year's CYs] were being organized, Tauntaun came to me with a
new set of rules." says former CY Awards Head AlphaBit Phalpha, who was
still in charge at the time, "I had given them very little thought
through. I tried to read them and still was confused at some of the
heavy reading, [so] in haste, I just said 'ok ok ok'."


Rules are made to protect the very community it represents, without them,
whats the point in having them?
Might as well just say; I pick that one and that one!


Can we now trust the voting? will more rules disapear if not in favour?

It certianly looks like they can be changed at the whim of someone!

[View Quote]

Sep 2, 2002, 3:09pm

I swear, you people just look for any excuse to bash the CYs, don't you?

The whole reason I posted that article was to clear up all the crap
about "changing rules on a whim". If you actually read the *entire*
article, rather than quoting out of context, you'd see that APB wasn't
exactly in the right frame of mind when she approved the rules (which
were made *after* all the nominations had come in, btw) and so she
rejected them later after she realized the effect they would have on the
CYs. The net result: No change! The rules are still the same as they've
always been, and no further changes are forthcoming, at least for this
round.

If you people still want to believe that the CYs are corrupt or whatever
after being presented with the facts, then you are truly delusional.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Or maybe they're just jealous they didn't get in...
robrod at prism.net

Sep 2, 2002, 3:49pm

The total confusion is with the statment issued in the cy forum, I again
quote:

"After various processes of checking and rechecking to make sure the
nominations are correct, here is a list of nominations that do not qualify
for this run of the Cy and therefore should be considered ineligible to vote
for. "

This implies very much that this new set had been accepted, if someone as
you say "was not in the right frame of mind" so at a later stage rejected
them. This only shows, adds to confusion as to what set of rules are being
used.

As no one has made any statements withdrawing the aceptance of the new set
of rules, that is unless you are speaking for the CY awards committee.


If so can you please respond to the statment in the cy forums from Garnet
and I quote from him/her,

"How can the avatars be judged when no one from the selection committee came
to look at them? We have bot records to back this up. Also it was my
understanding that 5 would be chosen, yet I see only 3 finalists. "

Must be another delusional member.

[View Quote]

Sep 2, 2002, 3:54pm

goob, what leads you to believe the rules were developed after the
nominations came in? i recall reading the rules when selection committee
nominations began. i don't remember any differences then from what is
posted today. not saying my memory is perfect -- just saying it looks the
same as i recall.

also, in the Cy forum, there are posts between TaunTaun and Bit on May 3.
Nominations for the selection committee were May 11-18. Voting for
Selection committee was June 1-8. Award nomination voting was June 22-29.

thanks -
Kerstin

[View Quote] > the rules (which > were made *after* all the nominations had come in, btw)

Sep 2, 2002, 5:51pm

isn't being changed after all are in just the problem ??
[View Quote]

Sep 2, 2002, 7:41pm

As has already been pointed out, statements made in the CY Forums are
not official statements. And, as ambivalent pointed out, the rules on
the Rules page haven't been changed since they were first posted.
Therefore, NO CHANGE HAS OCCURRED! The rules were introduced, and then
retracted, before they were ever entered in as official rules. Does that
help clear up the confusion?

And I'm not speaking on behalf of the CYs, just repeating what I already
reported in my article. You'll have to talk to the Selection Committee
about the Av category.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Is it really that hard to understand?
robrod at prism.net

Sep 2, 2002, 8:14pm

Goob, the rules DID change in practice, but did NOT change on the web site.
So right now, no one (except a select few) know what the rules are that were
used in the nominating process.

Read these rules and procedures, then go look at the nominations. These
are examples of posted rules and procedures that were obviously changed, and
examples of what people are concerned about.

From Rules on the website:
Selection Committee Team Members are not eligible for a Cy Award the round
they are serving on the team.

A member of the selection committee may not be nominated for a Cy Award of
any category, but may nominate anyone not in the selection committee.

From Procedures on the web site:
The selection committee will select the top five nominations in each
category.

Kerstin


[View Quote]

Sep 2, 2002, 9:25pm

Well perhaps it should carry a warning before entering the forum.


"The content of this forum in no way can be taken as official statements of
the CY Award Committee and as such anything stated can be disregard"


For the light of me I can't seem to find a warning or any other notice. As
this is directly linked from the "Official Web Site" this in any terms
suggests this is part of the CY Web site, therefore endorsed by them.

It is a very simple procedure to create a portal to a forum, but then as the
site in one of the finalists they will be aware of linking and prior warning
that the forum is unofficial and any views represented by members of the Cy
Awards Committee cannot be taken as the views of the Cy Awards Committee
main site.




[View Quote]

Sep 3, 2002, 12:30am

I think the truly sad part about all of this bickering, is not that
certain people weren't put on the voting balot, but that by arguing like
this, it ruins the whole spirit of the CY awards. The awards, no doubt, are
for the community, to award certain community members that have worked hard.
Jeez, we all work hard... but by attempting to raise hell because you feel
you were shorthanded in a community awards event... it just seems a tad
petty to me. Why can't people just accept the fact that they did not make it
on the balot, be fine, and decide to NOT send flaming telegrams to some that
are actually on the balot? I've spoken to some of the nominees, and many are
truly upset because of the backlashing effects they are receiving, due to
all of this nonsense. ALl of this - this arguing, this flaming, and just
plain complaining because of person opinions, is completely ruining the
spirit of the whole event....

Poseidon

[View Quote]

Sep 3, 2002, 12:32am

bah, I made some typos in that ^_^ Try to ignore them, LOL.

Poseidon

[View Quote]

Sep 3, 2002, 1:36am

ill try to ignore the whole thing since the person in chagre admitted this
was skrewed up and has NOTHING to do with whether or not ppl got on the list
or not was the rule change get all the info before YOU send flames
please ty :-)
[View Quote]

Sep 3, 2002, 6:51am

Hi Poseidon

To start any "flamming" is not the point that many have raised, the point
is, has the very rules and regulations that are the fabric of the CY's and
where acepted and in a Cy forum been altered at the last stage of the
selection process.

Although Goober King has stated the forum or not in any way the accepted
views of the CY committee, the interpretation on the accepted rules was
published for many to see. This is the problem.

All people want to observe is fairness and adherence to these laid down
proceedures and rules.


If any of the nominees has recieved any adverse/abusive telegrams they
should send the relevent data to abuse at activeworlds.com

I'm sure you can agree that if any rule or regulation is ignored, the
relevance of the result is tarnised. This is what the point of this entier
thread is about, removing any tarnising of a great community event.

If any tarnising has acured it lays directly with a posting in the CY forum
that all members can visit and see for themselves. Which are very clear and
in plain English.

Indeed some prominant members of our community have expressed concern over
this very point of selection process in private commincations with myself,
and yes these are people that have been placed on the finial nomination
list.

This is not any flamming, it is a expression of concern. If members cannot
display their view and opinions and express concern in a responsible
environment it is indeed very poor situation that we find ourselves in.
Indeed initially I did email the cy award committee and recived no response
to clarify the situation before approaching the newsgroups.

If members cannot criticise or cast views it is a very sad day indeed.



[View Quote]

Sep 3, 2002, 9:44am

You have got to be kidding me. When have you *ever* seen a forum where
posts were considered to be official committee rulings, unless there is
a specific forum marked for such business? If no such forum exists, then
nothing should be taken as official unless posted on the website.
Otherwise, it's all just talk. I would think that to be common sense,
but I guess that doesn't apply when you have an ax to grind...

[View Quote]
--
Goober King
Might as well grind that ax on Cy's head! :P
robrod at prism.net

Sep 3, 2002, 9:51am

My point is, the rules changed, and then changed back before they had
any sort of impact on the nominations. People were nominated using the
old rules, and the selection committee chose their top 5 based on the
old rules.

That being said, I too question how some of the nominations got on the
top 5, given that, from the beginning, Selection Committee members were
exempt from winning a CY. That, and some of the top 5 aren't all that
clear what's being nominated. (i.e. "Aylla" in the Av category) The only
clue I have is from Daphne who said that APB essentially said that
everyone was eligible. This, then, would be the *only* residual effect
from the rule "changes".

[View Quote] --
Goober King
It does make you wonder...
robrod at prism.net

Sep 3, 2002, 10:58am

You got it in one there Goober.

"unless there is a specific forum marked for such business"

Why then is it named Cy Awards Forum? I quote:

Welcome to the new Cy Awards Forums. Indicating this is part of the main web
site.

Surely a name like Cy Awards Discussion Forum would be more suitable if not
endorsed as a part of the main web site?


Since when has rule changes been some sort of axe to grind? Thought it was
as you so rightly beleave in investigative journalism.
Perhaps constructive is not wanted in aw anymore?

If you leave statements on the Internet for all to see and read you must
expect critics.



[View Quote]

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