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Mar 9, 2002, 4:39pm

According to the SDK FAQ on activeworlds.com, there is a java interface
beeing developed for the sdk. I'm having trouble connecting to the ftp
site they've linked, without a username/password.

Anyone know where I can get it? Or if anyone has it, please e-mail it to
me at: gamlesat at stud.ntnu.no.

aasmund1

Jul 2, 2000, 12:26pm

well....that is not completely true. With a bump map you get more dynamic lighting and the "edges" of the sphere does look different from an embossed texture.

Aasmund


[View Quote] > Not really. All bumpmapping is is overlaying an embossed version of the texture over a textured poly. <shrug> Make your own bumpmaps by doing the same in any decent graphics program. <yawn>
>
[View Quote]

Jul 9, 2000, 6:42pm

Jumping
I don't think of this as a game feature. AW is about moving around in 3d space. So naturally jumping and crawling should be implemented. But can't you do this with seqs? Anyway, avatar and object animation needs to be worked on.

Inventory
I don't want the knives and ropes kind of inventory. I don't think aw should be more like rpg's or first person shoot'em ups.... I choose to look at "inventory" as data (your inventory in this sense is your entire hd). AW isn't, and shouldn't be a game. It is a *real* form of communciation (spatial and textual/verbal), it must not be degraded to fiction.

Shooting
I didn't think even you liked that...If you want to "shoot" someone learn how to hack their computer.

On the other hand if someone chose to make a game world that is great, but I think it should be bot based. I don't want it implemented directly in aw.

AAsmund1

[View Quote] > Perhaps you should try reading more carefully about the direction I think AW should be going at http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/. As other people have already pointed out to you in response to this blatant attack against me, I never claimed AW should ONLY be a game, but that it should have more gamelike features (jumping, inventory, shooting, etc), but not to ONLY rely on these gamelike features. Of course I still want to build and chat, but AW needs to be more diverse if it ever hopes to get more popular...and e-commerce just ain't in AW's future at this time.
>
> And learn how to pronoun correctly. Back to grammar 101 with ya!
>
[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2000, 1:53pm

AW tries to be irc, icq, game, game designer, ie, netscape, vrml....and with a one and a half programmer crew it is obvious they can't do it all. But I do agree with most of what you say, (but I don't think you are beeing specific enough). I can only say: it seems like an enormous task to add the features so worldbuilders can be game designers (that is what you want, right?). But perhaps a more resourceful company will come along and create something that will satisfy all of us....

On the other hand: why don't we use icq to locate our friends, a level designer to create levels, and Netscape to watch websites. Why must it all be cramped into aw???

[View Quote] [View Quote] >
>
> Bots suck; they aren't server-based and there is a bot # limit.
>
> OPTIONAL gamelike features should be directly implemented into AW. You don't HAVE to jump. You don't HAVE to move objects to/from your inventory. You don't HAVE to shoot. But the OPTION to do these things would make AW MORE gamelike and expand its versatility (what you can DO with AW). Attempt to think outside the box, please.

Nov 16, 2000, 2:44pm

Nov 17, 2000, 11:53am

sorry...what I meant was: when you are flying (gravity=off) while using
mouselook you should move the exact direction you're facing. Even up or
down...

AAsmund1

[View Quote] > Perhaps it is a secret ... ??
>
> Grims
>
[View Quote]

Nov 18, 2000, 9:04pm

the point is: if we can agree on what is the most important features, like
say: everyone who has a geforce card join together and keep telling Rolland
we want hardware T&L support maybe he'll make it a priority....

AAsmund1

[View Quote] > Looking at the size of some of these threads and the deviation from the
> topics on a lot of them, is it any surprise?
>
> Grims
>
[View Quote]

Nov 19, 2000, 11:36pm

Actually they used to claim to support it on their site, but it looks kind of trimmed at the moment. When confronted with it, at one of the tech talks, Roland said it would take some "pretty funky" programming, but that he'd look into it for future releases...

AAsmund1

[View Quote] > Hardware T&L (transform and lighting for the ignorant) is up to Criterion. I think I heard they are working on it for RenderWare but I'm not sure. Regardless, Criterion seems to still be caught up in all the so-called "next-generation" console marketing hype. Once they realize it IS just hype, and that the PC simply blows consoles away, perhaps they'll work on making the PC RW more up-to-date with other PC 3D engines. Until then, don't expect it in AW ANY time soon.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 8:01pm

I'd like to say something about realism vs abstraction. In art history realism/naturalism had a peek around the renaissance; when brunelleschi et al found out how to make perspective drawings. Since then realism in itself has lost it's position in art, and even in renaissance paintings there are something higher than pure realism; e.g.. how the colors dynamically counterbalance each other etc. The funny thing is that when fine arts on one hand has tried to move away from realism, computer graphics is going to exact opposite way.

In saying this I don't mean that realism in AW is wrong, just that I find it peculiar that so little research/testing is put into more abstract worlds. And if the intention of AW is to compete with html we need to investigate concepts as: representation, abstraction, analogy, metaphor etc.

ps: I think the reflectivity issue is more a renderware feature than an AW feature.

[View Quote] > The idea is that AW needs to actually sit down and get creative...
> Reflectivity (mirrors) are a business addition because it makes things more
> realistic (which is the point isn't it?) from a subtle reflection in a
> window or water to a full length mirror... it's the small things that trick
> the user into thinking it's realistic.
>
> The more realistically a product is shown in 3D the more a user will think
> it's serious and not just a "chat environment". Believe it or not AW as a
> program is much more powerful than people know... it just takes the right
> talent to bring out the best in it :)

Feb 10, 2001, 3:12pm

I'll take you off my filter list for now eep so we can have this discussion.

[View Quote] I might not have been precise enough when dealing with the concept of Realism in art. It is correct as you state that Realism as a movement did take place in the 19th century, but realism in the meaning of a correct/mathematical representation of the real world (mathematical perspective) came with the Renaissance. My intention was to describe the evolution of art from abstraction to realism to abstraction (to realism again?), while computer graphics/games are going from abstraction towards realism in a linear way - because of technology. In this process the rules of the game get blurred out or complicated. From rl games (ludo) to old computer games (as in 2d pacman) to new games (as Half-Life). Is Realism important? definitely. Is it the only way? I don't think so.

> Realism doesn't have to mean boring or stagnant. Fantasy worlds can still be realistic in that they are believable, immersive environments. It's common to first introduce the gamer/user into a recognizeable environment (i.e. urban) and then gradually transform that environment into something less recognizeable (as in Half-Life with the aliens gradually populating the game more and more, with the player ending up on an alien world).

I agree, I think their realness (or over realness/surrealism) is the strength of fantasy worlds (just take JRR's LOTR as an example, it feels very *real* to me even if it is fantasy).

>

I agree. My intention was never to say that AW should not implement realistic effects, I was just asking if there are something beyond realism worth exploring for world builders. I want AW to evolve to something more than just "a fun place to chat and build", but then people need to explore how to clarify the "rules". And I think the rules in your website are a lot clearer than the rules in your world(s) (eg. symbols for download/screenshot etc.)


>

Feb 10, 2001, 6:13pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] DAAP is a world with (abstract) digital sculptures, but it still has grass and fences etc. What I have yet to see in AW is an informative, abstract world with content that doesn't look like it's real world equivalent, but still is user friendly. I think TRON (the movie) is kind of what I think about when I say abstract world (but not necessarily). To put it another way: why does a mall in AW have to look like a real mall?

>
> Rules? In my website and world? What do you mean?

If you look at AW as a game, or even as a tool, it has some basic rules. Like if you click on a door, it might open, if you click on the horse in Mandalay you are teleported to the town etc. Working out rules like this is a lot like making a game. Some computer games have puzzles, you collect items and use them to solve the puzzle, but my question is this: can this be used for useful purposes? Will this be how we explore the web in the future? I for one hope so.

PS: I like the "new" eep, but how long will it last? I bet you are just dying to flame me, aren't you?

Jan 28, 2001, 2:00pm

I don't think it's a "stupid little tid bit" because it can lead to bigger improvements. Let's see, first we want different fonts, and perhaps a way to specify the font size. Then lets say we want to include pictures in the same sign, and before you know it we have asked roland to add html support to the signs. Which I think is a great idea, then we could really lose that awful webwindow too. After that we want other programs to run in similar "signs" and eventually will have a 3d os. Think big!

[View Quote] > Whatever, it's just a stupid little tid bit I'd like that I doubt would ever
> happen, what I had in mind hasn't changed though, I should have just worded
> it differently...

Jan 29, 2001, 5:27pm

hehe please don't get all technical on me now!

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Jan 21, 2001, 10:23am

AW 3.2 will also support hardware T&L, which is a feature a lot of people (should) care about. Specially since everyone goes around bragging they have a geforce even though this currently doesn't give any framerate boost in AW.

[View Quote] > Yet another poor direction decision, if true. Cross-platform support should come AFTER getting AW up to speed as a multi-user level editor (which it basically is). Why doesn't Roland put in what MANY people want: to not be automatically visible when logging onto AW. Why doesn't he make movement controls customizable? Why doesn't he make the font/screen colors customizable? Why doesn't he make the toolbar customizable? Why doesn't he make AW remember the custom world background colors after AW closes? Why doesn't he make AW not reset the downloaded sounds/picture sizes to 100K if unchecked and the dialog closed? Why doesn't he fix all the annoying BUGS in AW before yet again taking AW off into a direction MOST people couldn't give a shit about? This is why he doesn't deserve to be AW's lead programmer: he CONTINUALLY proves he cannot make good design/direction decisions.
>
> There have been bugs in AW ever since I found it that are STILL not fixed. There are still MANY bugs just from AW3 that still need fixing. Roland needs to learn how to do floating point calculations correctly so all those damn gaps/seams stop appearing and avatars don't jerk so much when turning and moving in STRAIGHT lines far away from GZ, for example. I can go on and on about how much AW needs to be FIXED before it adds cross-platform support--even to NT.
>
> Ah, yes, but I'm sure it's some "big money" uniserver customer who wants NT support, so AWCI would rather get on their hands and knees to cater to THEIR wishes than those of the people who actually MATTER to AW's community and future. This is why Rick and JP don't deserve to be running AW. They simply do not know who are the more important customers and who they should be developing AW for.
>
[View Quote]

Jan 29, 2001, 5:39pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] This is interesting:

Eep is correcting Andras' grammar while Andras is correcting eep's math (by the way please learn this simple mathematical concept). This is a good thing, two people exchanging their different knowledge. Andras says thanks, eep says..well read above.

If you feel you have the right to correct everyone else, why can't you deal with other people correcting you?

>
>
> Well, I heard it from Myrth or Agent 1, so I doubt it's a rumor. But I haven't bothered to go to TechTalks lately or keep up with AW development since I'm not on the beta. <shrug> I'll have more mannerS (yes, there is more than one) when Roland gets his fucking act together and learns how to code adequately enough and develop AW more logically.

Apr 23, 2001, 4:21pm

[View Quote] > Well, there is a difference between reading someone's message and actually
> understanding it.
>
> If I am a monomaniac for trying to have my intentions understood, then so be
> it. It seems there is a misconception that I want to be able to change the
> AW background for everyone. That is definately not the case. I am trying
> to propose a way in which we can individually have a download section in our
> area where people can choose to download a background or not.

You know you can choose your own (individual) backdrop in any world by putting
it in your local path? I haven't read the whole thread so don't bother post
about how this differs from your suggestion.

By the way: what do you mean by this: a way in which we can individually have a
download section in our area where.. oh nevermind. Where IS eep when you need
him?

AAsmund1

May 19, 2001, 2:28pm

This probably won't get implemented because AW isn't even handling the
3d-part. But I'll whish anyway:

Fisheye projection and adjustable FOV

Go here to see why:
http://wouter.fov120.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/compare.html

AAsmund1

May 19, 2001, 5:15pm

[View Quote] > Blah. I don't like flat walls appearing curved.

My point is: if you want higher FOV (field of vision for the uneducated) you'll get less
distortion with fisheye perspective. I'd like that, that doesn't mean you have to.

So it would be OPTIONAL.

AAsmund1

May 19, 2001, 5:25pm

[View Quote] > thats the dumest thing ive evr heard of...distorded vision isnt my idea of a
> good view
>

Yawn...loose the ignorant attitude or I'll have chucks party dig up some dirt on
you too.

AAsmund1

Oct 21, 2001, 9:46am

[View Quote] > 2) Fog of War - Or something to make the pop up smoother/more bearable.

What is "Fog of War"?

> 3) Triangle count

Would be nice.

> 6) Zoom - Sometimes I would like to see some objects a little closer at
> a distance. Also good for trying to look at an object on the floor.

Valid point. Think the main point here is to give more freedom in 3rd person
view, that is to give the user more controll over the camera, without
changing position.

> 8) Avatar Equipment - It would be nice if we could have mind
> customization for avatars in the department of avatars being able to
> pick up and wear other 'equipment' namely new shirts/skins, belts, hats,
> boots, etc. So we the users can look diffrent even if we use the same
> avatar.

You can do this with just making different versions of the same avatar, with
different textures. If the avatar drop-down menu had an hierarchial
structure the menu wouldn't be a total mess.

> 10) Emotes - I know there are 'actions' but they dont' cover all the
> range of possable emotions.

I think action commands should be written out in the chat window: e.g
"aasmund1 kicks". And vice versa: writting "LOL" could trigger a SEQ (and/or
even a sound).

> 13) Character states - I want my character to sit in a chair and stay
> there, hold a pose, dance till I say stop, etc. Animations that cycle
> or freeze frame untill I specify where to move from there.

Suggestion: clicking on a chair could give the options: sit (maybe also:
break, pick up etc)

This is a very interesting feature because it can be used to refine social
interaction. eg. a) "Sit down, and tell me all about it" (meaning I want to
chat with you), b) "Is this chair available?", "no" (meaning: "get out of my
face"). etc...

> 16) Doors with locks - Make it a keypad next to a door, user clicks it,
> enters a key code and if authorized, they can enter. Truely private
> rooms if this and no cliping allowed is set in a world.

Private/Public areas: KAH and I are working on a bot solution to this right
now. Although I'm sure we're not the first.

> 19) Player Radar - Show me all the indivdiuals in a X radius around me,
> but no backgrouns, just a black circle with dots relative to my location
> and faceing.

I have a bot Idea on this, where i make a small 3dmap object of the world
and having a bot moving avatarars on top of it.

aasmund1
eeps improvement site (for perspective):
http://www.tnlc.com/eep/aw/improve.html

Jan 29, 2001, 5:47pm

Well different 3d cards handles AW differently. I've tried quite a few and some of them do show annoying gaps, but some don't. I don't think this can be blamed on Roland. Perhaps we should yell at the code because it should *know* what Roland mean!!

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Feb 1, 2001, 9:45pm

I went there offline, and rebuilt it. Here's the screenshots:

1. This is how the road looked before I rebuilt it: http://home.no.net/gamlesat/gaps/old_street.gif

2. And voila: http://home.no.net/gamlesat/gaps/new_street.gif

3. Rebuilding the wall: http://home.no.net/gamlesat/gaps/wall.gif

4. I didn't see the "typical gap" either, no matter how close I got to the wall.

One is tempted to think aw3 is actually more precise than 2.x.

[View Quote] > For everybody who thinks gaps don't exist, I've added two screenshots to
> show. These screenshots were made at 2011n 1w in AW (not really far from GZ
> actually), go see it for yourself there.
>
> Note the large not a citizen wall at the background. It suffers a very bad
> case of gappiness.
>
> Rolu
>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 8:31am

Because if you would have done some research you would find that deleting half the wall, and rebuilding it would show a gap (quite big) between the wall the new and old wall. Just look at the picture. That shows that the wall isn't built properly, either because aw 2.2 is less precise than aw 3.x or perhaps it's built with robobuilder or something. Same goes for the road, rebuild it offline and see for yourself! I've wasted enough time on this as it is...

[View Quote] > Can you put it online somewhere so I can see it myself? It's very possible
> to show stuff with gaps to have no gaps by looking at it from the right
> angle/distance. It is possible that aw3 is more precise of course. But just
> rebuilding a wall/street says nothing. I often had walls that fitted
> perfectly, but then there suddenly was a piece that had a gap (which was
> smaller than even the smallest movement could fix).
>
> By the way, *why* was it a bad example? Just because you couldn't reproduce
> it?
>
> Rolu
>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 11:41am

I have used another 3d card which showed gaps and seams clearly, but the current one doesn't. This makes me think that some cards show more gaps than others. I can provide two comparative screenshots in a couple of weeks. Or I can take screenshots of places you show me which has gaps. But I ask you to please do some research first, and don't make big points out of structures which "just happens to be there".

[View Quote] > That big wall just happened to be there, and therefore I included it. You
> completely seem to ignore what I built myself, which was built by hand, and
> shows a clear gap.
>
> If you build a wall without gaps, this only proves that you can build a wall
> without gaps. This doesn't prove gaps don't exist.
>
> If you build a wall with gaps, this proves that gaps exist. It doesn not
> prove that you can't build a wall without gaps.
>
> If you want to make a point, be ready to show some proof.
>
> Rolu
>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 11:47am

Cool it please, I just reported back on an example which show out to be misguiding.

[View Quote] > Yea, and you STILL don't get it. AW has an object position floating point calculation error--PERIOD. All you gotta do is ask Roland about it--it's that simple. Stop being a twit and arguing against something you obviously have no clue about.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 7:41pm

It's just irritates me to see bombastic subject headers (yes I know you didn't write it), so I decided to write one myself. It probably wasn't the nicest thing to do, but the general tone isn't very friendly either. Blame eep.

Still can't reproduce your bug: http://home.no.net/gamlesat/gaps/nogap1.png

I am not saying there's not a problem here. I'm just reporting how things show up on my computer, then we can figure out WHAT the problem is. The seams/gaps on the other videocards I've tried happened within objects too though, does this happen on your system to? Perhaps there are several different bugs interfering with each other: seams within objects and placement of objects in worlds.

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Feb 2, 2001, 7:55pm

Yes that's obviously a bug. Then there's two bugs actually, one with some videocards and one with the database.

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Feb 3, 2001, 5:06pm

I said: "I can provide two comparative screenshots in a couple of weeks. Or I can take screenshots of places you show me which has gaps."

[View Quote] > Which video card didn't show the gaps/seams? Which does? Do you know what proof means? Put up or shut up.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 3, 2001, 5:18pm

The bug is not MY video card. In three weeks I will post a bug report in beta (with all specifications), and I will post it here as well. If your video card also shows seams whitin an object, I'll be happy to provide screenshots from my current system (without seams), to compare with yours.

I think you should relax some more, don't be so jumpy....just take a deep breath. You're just too intense.

[View Quote] > And WHAT video cards do you have again (and which don't show gaps/seams), aasmund? Is this too difficult a question for you to answer? I've only asked you, what, 3 times now. Get a fucking clue you idiot and stop skirting around the issue. If you can provide support for your bullshit ramblings, shut the fuck up and pipe the hell down. I bet you're on the closed beta, too, eh? Fucking mindless clone...
>
[View Quote]

Feb 3, 2001, 5:37pm

Your description of me is way wrong. And if you bothered to read the ng before posting you would see my opinion on closed beta. I have no prestige in this, and I do not *pretend* to be a techie. I don't consider myself one, and I don't strive to become one. For me computers are tools: not gods to be worshiped.

[View Quote] > I doubt he even knows what his video card(s) is.

> I know my cards better than
> my lover and can easily specify everything up to and including the
> dimensions of the heatsinks/fans and the adhesive/thermal paste used to
> secure them. Not that you ever need to know this stuff, but you get the
> point. aasmund most likely operates from a company computer and plays with
> AW when the boss isn't looking, and then pretends to be a techie when he has
> no clue what's even loaded onto his workstation. As for him being on closed
> beta, it's highly likely. Only maybe 2 people with any testing aptitude made
> the cut. Only 10 with any computer skills PERIOD made it.
>
> --
> Wing
> This little spot is dedicated to my girl, Jessie.
> WHAT TIME IS IT? GAME TIME!
> Ravens are goin Festivus Maximus on Purple Sunday
> AW Citizen 305004 "Wing"
> bathgate at prodigy.net
> eyemwing at teleport.com
> ICQ #101207433
[View Quote]

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