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Apr 12, 2001, 2:19pm

Because Object Change does not do the same thing :)

Object Change tests whether the new object fits in the cell, it does not
'remove' the old object before testing this. In overcrowded conditions,
adding an object results in a failure. Object Change = Object Add + Object
Delete (and not as stated in the AW SDK docs). I delete first, then add.
Visually you may see the object disappear for a second.

One thing I never tested is this: if when using Object Change the old object
is not found, I don't know if the new object is added or not.

[View Quote]

Apr 13, 2001, 2:00am

Hi,

You will need something to read. I bought "Mastering Delphi <version
number>" by Marco Cantu (+/- $50) when I moved from VB to Delphi about 3
years ago, it helped me a lot. Without a good book or tutorial it is very
difficult to start learning how to program. Once you know the basics, you
can use the Delphi help files for more.

Marco Cantu's homepage http://www.marcocantu.com/ has interesting links. He
has a book online called Essential Pascal, those are topics not covered in
Mastering Delphi but essential for understanding the structure and syntax of
pascal. And a followup called Essential Delphi.

Once you are a bit familiar with Delphi, you can download Canopus'
encapsulation of the AW SDK which allows you to make bots (if that is what
you want): http://www.canopus.org/delphi/delphi.html

XelaG

[View Quote]

Apr 13, 2001, 5:20am

:(

Well start practicing LOL !

Nov 19, 2000, 3:49am

AlphaWorld (aw) is closed for bots... Any idea why (going same way as
Atlantis ?????) ?????

XelaG

Nov 20, 2000, 1:49am

I have made bots for AW for 2 years now. My bots are freeware, and I spent
many hours making them, and I spend hours upgrading and testing them. I
also spent many hours writing help pages. And I'm happy to have done that.

On many occasions I have helped people asking questions about the bots
personally. Unfortunately, this is not always possible. I receive many
requests, some I can handle, some I can't. Here is the result, after
sending what advice I could:

Telegram from Lanezeri, sent Tue Nov 14, 2000 21:45: nope... u made a bot
and gave it to the public. You took the challenge to have to answer all the
questions everyone has...

To this I reply: no sir. Your using my bot is a gift, not an obligation.
After some insulting comments from this citizen 315391, for example lately:

XelaG is a prick

these are my thoughts: as far as I am concerned, Mr Lazeneri, stop using my
bot.

I am proud I can bring a bot to puplic use, for free. I do not accept
insults of any kind. My making the bots available to public use is bound by
my own restrictions, as stated in the download bot pages. Mr 315391 may not
use my bots, although I will not hardcode his citnum as banned. I expect
apologies from this gentleman and that he stops sending insults, or
otherwise he must refrain from using my bots. I hope this is clear.

XelaG

Nov 21, 2000, 11:39am

The post concerns not only Lanezeri, although it is certainly his attitude
that triggered it. When someone gives you something for free, spends hours
making it, updating it and writing help files, as is the case with my bot
and with many other services provided by various people, that gives you no
right to hassle that person for more. The person has the right to say:
look, I've done my best, it's on my page, go look there, I can't do more at
present. Lanezeri not only first directly told me 'what he thought of me'
but went along telling other people... Surely my business where I post
this: this is a bot ng, and it is about my bots, the help I provide for
them, and attitudes towards this free service.

XelaG

[View Quote]

May 1, 2001, 1:31am

Can you make your bot move forward, back, left, right, turn etc? This is of
course the basis for any movement. The random element is just a detail
really. I use a few routines to move the bot in 3D space. The
implementation is visible in the script satement

LocMove3D <object> <distance> <horizontal angle> <vertical angle>

Trigonometry is essential here :)

XelaG

[View Quote]

May 6, 2001, 9:00am

[View Quote] The problem with your formula is simply that you will get a bot with
parkinsons disease, jumping madly in all directions. :) You need to have
some stability in the way the bot is facing and going, and some random
element to deviate from that. The basis is ok:

AwMyX + something1
AwMyZ + something2

you must also have
AwMyYaw + something3

and may even need
AwMyY + something4 if it is a bird.

it's the "something1/2/3/4" which is the problem. The AwMyYaw is actually
where you must start, and that's where trigonometry comes in: the bot must
walk roughly in the direction it is already facing, but deviating its AWMyX,
AwMyZ and maybe AwMyY slightly from it's present position, and then
recalculate and adjust its new AwMyYaw for the next step. I could send you
some code in Delphi, but you would have to translate it to VB... and you
still need a some knowledge of trigonometry to apply it correctly.

Another solution would be that MrGrimms adds some code to his sdk to help
with that, something like I have in my xelagot script, to move the bot D
metres at a H horizontal angle and a V vertical angle, and a way to
determine the new Yaw.

XelaG

May 10, 2001, 11:26pm

I think you are refering to aw_object_change. My own experiments with this
indicate that the bot sdk works like the browser: first the world server
tries to add, without even checking if the cell capacity would accept the
object if the 'old' object was not there. So it is an object add followed by
an object delete. The sdk docs were wrong there, it seems they have now
changed this and eliminated all references to how this happens.


[View Quote]

May 10, 2001, 11:30pm

ah I see Roland has replied :)


[View Quote]

May 12, 2001, 6:04pm

The xelagot server could be used by other bots though, it has that ability.
I offered the posibility to Ima once, but they were not interested at that
time. I even wrote a whole document about it :)

XelaG

[View Quote]

May 18, 2001, 1:35am

I personally think that the fact there are 2 newgroups for bots and sdk is
more than enough. It is already quite confusing for people to know where to
post questions. The sdk newsgroup is the appropriate one to post questions,
in my opinion, about vb, c--, delphi or clum. As long as it is vaguely sdk
related, welcome. The sdk newsgroup, as such, would be dead and gone
without all the weird questions about weird systems :) There is even a
third possibility, for the lucky few, to post in the beta newsgroup.....
People with 'high technical nowledge' can post here, or make their own
elitair newsgroup if they want to.

When I started making bots, I started with VB. My first xelagot was a VB
creep. I was made fun of in this same newsgroup, and not taken seriously by
professional C++ programmers, but also helped by many of them... And
especially by Canopus, a Delphi programmer. But also by C++, often amidst
derision and unbelief that anything other than C++ could do the job... I did
not belong here. I moved away from VB because of it's shortcomings, and was
denigrated because I used Delphi instead of C++. Only when my xelagot won
the Cy award from C++ programmers, did I start getting recognition. After
al, C++ programmers are also human... :)

I think the time has come for experienced programmers (especially C/C++ers)
to accept newbie programmers. I had to fight my way, with the help of other
people in this newsgroup (that was what *really* helped me, not the sdk
label attached to the newsgroup). We do not need another technical
newsgroup: this one is more than enough. When I can help someone here, I
will. I do not know everything, the one who does just throw the first stone
please. Maybe, the more experienced but elitair C++ers should publish here
more often.

Please note: I have nothing against C++. In fact, when people ask me what
their best choice would be, I recommend C++, for the simple reason that it
is more portable. I program in Delphi myself, and I am very pleased with
it. I just hate the attitude many exclusive C/C++ programmers have against
others. This is the heritage I have got here... wounds heal slowly :)

So, to keep it long enough: no need for another newsgroup, throw your
troubles here, like I did!

XelaG

[View Quote]

May 18, 2001, 12:36pm

True, the mentality has changed a bit in the last couple of years. When at
first only C/C++ ruled, it was difficult for other programmers to be taken
seriously. Then the Delphi wrapper, appeared at the end of 1998 (thanks to
Canopus), and many of the bugs I reported were dismissed as being 'Delphi'
bugs. Most of them were recognised in the end for what they were. I also
asked very stupid questions, in the eyes of experts: for me they were not
stupid, I was learning and needed the feedback. Next came the VB wrapper
(there was also a Java wrapper, not sure if or how it works). I do notice
still people bashing each other for 'newbie' etc here, I think that's not
quite ok. There is a predominance of VB programmers, many are young and
have many questions about programming. I personally think this is great,
this newsgroup would be long dead without them -- it was dying anyway after
a year or so, with only 'experts' chatting here once every 3 months. This
indicates a re-birth of bot making and of using the SDK. It enhances the
social function of ActiveWorlds, I would not like to see a come-back of the
'experts only' time. I may have expressed myself a bit too vehemently in my
last post, but there is a reason for that: the situation now may seem
chaotic at times, but that means there is growth. It allows two crowds to
mix, the experts and the less experts. People, when learning anything, need
this mix: if newgroups were separate, you would get the 'first class
programmers' ng and the 'mob' ng, less experts would feel intimidated to
post outside their appointed 'mob' group. The volume of 'expert' exchange
here, anyway, does not justify splitting newsgroups, in my opinion, you can
very easily select what you want to read here, and let others benefit.

To give you an opposite example: AW decided to close the beta newsgroup. I
approve of that, I don't consider that elitair, why? Because the purpose of
that newsgroup is to help Roland and his team to find and fix bugs, and not
to promote a general discussion on the beta. Their decision to close the
newsgroup produced a much more effective and clean beta period.

This newsgroup is different, in my view: people should be free to post and
discuss matters, even if they seem at times little related to the SDK (I
still have to find such off-topic questions here, most of what I see is
directly relating to using the SDK). Younger or inexperienced programmers
should in no may feel intimidated to post their problems here, even if it is
about simple VB questions.

BTW, I don't think you meant badly, but I have my very outspoken opinion
about this :) I was here from day 1 of the SDK, and a lot this ng's history
passed under my bridge LOL.

My 2 cents :)

XelaG

[View Quote]

Dec 9, 2000, 5:25pm

I am testing a Chess script and engine for the Xelagot and need
beta-testers. There are 4 chess-boards for testing it in Xelagon of Active
Worlds and in Xelagon of VectorScape. All are welcome, send bug reports and
suggestion to: xelag at 3dee.nl

XelaG

Dec 14, 2000, 6:26pm

Hi,

you cannot control which events are received, except by installing or not a
certain event handler. But you can, in your own code, select which events
you process.

Some events receive coordinates: AvatarAdd and AvatarChange (AvatarDelete
does not), CellObject (in the process of querying property).

In events that involve coordinates but do not receive them or receive
partial coordinates, you need to consult your own buffered data, retrieve
the coords and use that.

If you use scriptable bots, like the xelagot, the checking can be done in
scripting more easily, because the buffers are already made and consulted
before the event is sent to the script, so you receive full data in the
script event handler.

XelaG

[View Quote]

May 18, 2001, 7:57pm

hey grimble,

this is exactly what I was talking about in 'Re:What a chance...': you
don't need to abuse people for asking questions, even if you think you are
an expert! Barbarossa's question is quite legitimate and, even if it is in
the AW SDK help files, unless you are very used to the style there, it can
be quite confusing: he has all the right to post his question here :)

XelaG

[View Quote]

Dec 15, 2000, 6:45pm

I am proud to present the first version of the Xelagot Chess bot: yes, bot
and script. Xelagots have now a hard-coded chess unit, managed by scripts.
This script is accompanied by two sets of objects:

1. the classic AW set (rwx), repainted slightly. It has two additions: a
black and a white square, 1m wide, to form the chessboard.

2. A set donated by Titans Guild (cob).

Unfortunately, the larger worlds seem to be missing the squares... without
which this script will not work. Maybe some kind soul will persuade AWCOM to
include non z-object squares in future (they are welcome to upload (part or
all) my set.

Working chess games can be found at the following locations:

- Active Worlds: xelagon 5s 1w
- OuterWorlds: tourist 5n 5w
- VectorScape: xelagon GZ and surroundings
- City4All: city4all 25s 10w

The script can be downloaded at
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/xlgase_chess_s.html, they require the newest
version of the bots from http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/

Have fun.

May 22, 2001, 12:17pm

Great news. I added it to my SDK links :)

[View Quote]

May 23, 2001, 1:43am

Posting a reply to an empty post is what then? LOL

[View Quote]

Dec 18, 2000, 7:29pm

The first version of the file Chess_02.txt (in Chess_02.zip) has a bug: it
always says that Whites win LOL. The new fixed version is uploaded, if you
have installed your chess, replace only the file Chess_02.txt, load it and
run it (you don't need to run Chess_Setup.txt again).

Downloads: http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/xlgase_chess_s.html

Sorry if you won and were not acknowledged :)

May 27, 2001, 12:47am

I have been reading the answers to moria's question., and I am puzzeled. Not
one of the answers has anything to do with his/her question. I myself don't
know the answer, but if no-one else knows it, why carry on a thread? Is
this an disease, like mouth and foot?

XelaG

[View Quote]

Dec 22, 2000, 4:25pm

That is the approach used by Preston. It is very attractive, and much
easier to use that adding code to one of the companion files of dialog0.txt
manually... but it is possible to do it in xelagots too. See the page:
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/xlgtopiclanguage.html, specially the section
on Customising the language file. Once you get the knack of this, it's dead
easy to do.

XelaG

[View Quote]

Dec 25, 2000, 3:01am

Well, they may learn to predict the future some day or other... :)

[View Quote]

Dec 22, 2000, 8:28pm

New version of bot (2.9999958) with a fix in the check-mate code. And a new
Chess script, Chess_03.txt, which can replace the old Chess_02.txt without
re-installing the lot.

Bot: www.imatowns.com/xelagot/
look for link to X1 and to the Scripts on this page.

Dec 23, 2000, 10:08am

In the present and previous versions of xelagot, bots having a name
containing spaces will not run the chess script. Workaround: remove the
spaces. Fix will be in the next version.

Aug 2, 2001, 8:31am

www.canopus.org gives an error message. Canopus explained to me that his ISP
migrated everything, and got things mixed up. I hope it will be soon back
online, the pages still exist.

XelaG

[View Quote]

Sep 2, 2001, 10:32pm

Joe, I think the current SDK works fine in 2.2 worlds. My xelagot
works in 2.2 worlds and universe without problem, just avoid using the
specifice 3.x functions, attributes and callbacks.

[View Quote] >Hi, I need the 2.2 SDK for a project I'm working on. If any one has a copy,
>could they please send it to joeman at bootdown.com.
>
>
>Thanks
>-Joe
>

Sep 3, 2001, 4:53pm

Joeman, stick it in your brain: build 20 (the latest 3.1 build) has
all the methods used in 2.2 universes and worlds (and more, but the
new ones don't work in older universes). What you don't get with it,
you won't get with the older versions. The only 'old' method that has
changed is that when you log in, you can't specify how many avatars
the bot will perceive: it defaults now to 50, which was the maximum in
2.2 SDK.

XelaG

[View Quote] >Great, that would work, uh, kinda as well. Could you send it to me? :)
>
>-Joe
[View Quote]

Sep 4, 2001, 11:03pm

YP, my bots are used in 2.2 universes, even if they are 3.1 compliant.
In those universes, I don't attempt to use newer methods (you can if
you want, but you will get blanks and zeros)... if someone wants a 2.2
SDK, great... but since it is not needed, I don't see what the fuss is
all about. There must be some antiquarian somewhere selling it :)

XelaG

[View Quote] >uhhh, Roland makes sure the SDK has complete and full backwards compatibility, because how would
>the current 2.2 browser work in the 3.1 universe? I believe you can't login a 3.x browser into a
>2.2 universe, but you can login a 3.x SDK to one...

Sep 22, 2001, 4:35pm

The only way is to store the avatars' attibutes when you get an
avatar-add event, to modify them at avatar_change and to remove them
at avatar_delete and when you exit the world/universe. By counting
the items (avatars) stored in this way, you always know how many there
are. At every location you arrive at, give the bot some time to
receive the avatar_add events.

XelaG

[View Quote] >Howdy <http://polygon.imatowns.com/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif>
>
>I have been pondering a problem for a little while now. What I am trying
>to do is make a bot that will count the number of avatars in a given
>area of land, and if this is larger than the chat radius, it will divide
>this land into regions, and teleport from one to the next, and then
>start back from the beginning. I have everything down except for one
>thing: Does anyone know how I could count the avatars in the bot's
>current location?
>
>A thought I have had is to set up an event handler for
>AW_EVENT_AVATAR_ADD, call aw_wait(), have my handler just add the avatar
>count to a global variable of some sort while a timer suspends other
>execution for a few seconds. However, this seems inefficient to me.
>
>I know that I have seen in some bot somewhere the ability to say the
>names of all the avatars in its presence (for example, "Who is here"
>would receive a reply of "John Viper, Citizen, 'tourist' and [bot] are
>here.") Perhaps this was done a similar way: the bot had an internal
>storage system holding information about the users, but I always thought
>that there was some specific call that could be made through the SDK,
>and if not, there were some other, more efficient way of doing it than
>my method mentioned above.
>
>Thanks for any help you can provide!
>
>-JV

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