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What's your preference - traditional or mocap?
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What's your preference - traditional or mocap? // Roundtable
Post by mrbones // Mar 12, 2006, 4:56am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Oh what the heck, Vote for Motion Capture, Just because you like TrueBones.Com :)
Cheers
Well, I didn't vote because the choice I would have chosen was not offered.;)
Either method could be used to pose a character for a still image. This 'ability' is almost needed, to produce a good looking still, if it contains more than normally 'static' objects (vases, doorstops, etc.), which do not move without some type of intervention.
I've successfully animated a cameras motion, fairly simple things rotating and some vertex animation; Played some with animating NURBS.
It seems there's little apparent need for the use of any type of software in 'my neck of the woods', unless we count sending e-mails which don't always get the type of response I desire (as simple as a brief reply in most cases).:( |
Post by noko // Mar 12, 2006, 7:58am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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LOL, yes I like TrueBones.com as well. Still I can't vote either way since both are part of a solution to animate in 3d. It isn't either or for me. I hate to think if I wanted to animate 10 characters at once, two talking to each other with facial expressions and 8 others in the background doing different things such as jumping, walking, sitting, drinking etc all being hand done via key framing!! It would take me FOREVER!!! and I am sure the results would be lacking. Besides after 2-3 months I would be utterly board with whole scene and still a long ways to go ;).Mocap in that scenario could do alot but not everything. Handkeying some of it for the up close and Mocap for alot of the other motions I think would be best. The poll is just missing out the third most viable option, BOTH! Together!! :)
So no matter how much I want to vote for MoCap I want traditional as well. |
Post by frank // Mar 12, 2006, 8:19am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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I see what you mean, Noko.
The thing I'm a bit worried about is mocap being THE answer from Caligari for character animation - as opposed to giving us solid tools for regular animation and then mocap or data-driven layered on top. |
Post by Alien // Mar 12, 2006, 12:13pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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The thing I'm a bit worried about is mocap being THE answer from Caligari for character animation - as opposed to giving us solid tools for regular animation and then mocap or data-driven layered on top.
This is the 1st I've heard of this. Is this just speculation on your part? I sincerely hope so. I haven't heard anything about Caligari doing anything mocap related & would hope that if they ever do, normal/regular animation would be taken care of properly 1st. |
Post by frank // Mar 12, 2006, 12:39pm
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Alien: This is the 1st I've heard of this. Is this just speculation on your part?
Oh no, don't worry....this is just a concern. I have no reason to think they will release a mocap-only solution...but I wanted to get an idea of what the trueSpace community preferred, for my own curiosity, and to help give Caligari an idea about what would be best to focus on for the new C.A. tools.
Sorry if I had you worried. :) |
Post by mrbones // Mar 12, 2006, 2:08pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Not Speculation, Call me a fish going upstream, but I would welcome doing motion capture in TS before traditional, Vote Mocap just cause Im a funny guy! Cheers:D |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 5:04am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Vote for Mocap because I just put MagicBones on sale at http://www.truebones.com, Cheers! |
Post by Humdinger // Mar 13, 2006, 5:29am
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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Bottom line is..you should have access to both...with Hand Keying the only must...
As..and you can argue all you want..Motion Capture is not animation...unless you want to redefine animation.
MoCap is perfect for 'everyday' motions that to hand key each time.... can get very labor intensive.
A person getting in and out of a car as an example. Sure you could hand key that sequence..but how important is that minor sequence within the entire context of your animated project that you are going to commit huge resources to animating it....you wouldn't.
my perosnal beef with most mocap is the extremely poor actors used. Using actors that are not 'skillled' at being a source for motion capture...being a good actor and a good mocap actor..are not they same.
With Atheletes it is a bit different as they invented the motions themselves...lol..and as a result are a perfect source for the motions..that is where mocap has really made a difference from what I have seen..
-Sport Games
-'Cinematics' within games like GTA..etc..Mocap is used and obviously saves soooooooooooooo much time in contrast to hand keying those sequences. Not to say it is better,,,but common sense tells you that without the motion capture these scenes would probably not be part of the game as the time to put them together would be cost prohibitive..and once again
..because within the entire context of the game they are important..but not a crucial element..I love them and so do others...but such sequences need to be as cost effective to produce as possible.
Mocap is being used for no other reason than time and money savings..any 'talk' of anything else is just that 'talk'...words...sounds..with no foundation in reality. :D |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 5:56am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Thanks Vinny, Well Said.
Save Time, Save Money, Got Mocap?
Mocap is being used for no other reason than time and money savings..any 'talk' of anything else is just that 'talk'...words...sounds..with no foundation in reality. :D |
Post by Alien // Mar 13, 2006, 6:01am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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MrBones: I would have thought you'd be encouraging people to vote for traditional - afterall, if Caligari included mocap, nobody would need to buy a mocap plugin. ;) |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 6:03am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Alien,
Its OK, Im not worried about that. The mocap plug-in(trueBones.TSX) that I do sell only works in TrueSpace version 5 and 6.
Also the new MagicBones Motions (not a plug-in) are completley superior than most Motion Capture that is currently available.
Thanks for your concern,
Cheers!
P.S. Vote Mocap, cuz Sugar, were goin down swingin.....
MrBones: I would have thought you'd be encouraging people to vote for traditional - afterall, if Caligari included mocap, nobody would need to buy a mocap plugin. ;) |
Post by frank // Mar 13, 2006, 9:32am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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mrbones: Also the new MagicBones Motions (not a plug-in) are completley superior than most Motion Capture that is currently available.
Where do you get these motions, Mr. Bones?
I can't picture you in a mocap suit. :)
Well...I can't really picture you at all - besides seeing a skeleton in a top-hat. :) |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 9:35am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Id rather keep you guessing on that one Frank...
Esspecially since you have absolutley no interest in Mocap.
You in a Mocap suit... Well Yes, I can imagine it...
Cheers
Where do you get these motions, Mr. Bones?
I can't picture you in a mocap suit. :)
Well...I can't really picture you at all - besides seeing a skeleton in a top-hat. :) |
Post by frank // Mar 13, 2006, 10:00am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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mrbones: Id rather keep you guessing on that one Frank...
Esspecially since you have absolutley no interest in Mocap.
You said they "are completley superior than most Motion Capture that is currently available" so I was wondering what makes them better.
mrbones: You in a Mocap suit... Well Yes, I can imagine it...
I have moves like you wouldn't believe, chiefy. :)
Check this out:
I'm here.
............................................... Now, I'm over here.
WEEEHAAAAAAAA!!! |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 10:02am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Yes, But you didnt ask me what makes them completely superior.
You asked me where did I get them...Speculate all you like..
Yes slow down Frankie, You move to much, Now I am concerened that you were hyperactive as a child.
Small movements carry more emotional weight and intensity. Stillness conveys power, strength and dignity.
Cheers
You said they "are completley superior than most Motion Capture that is currently available" so I was wondering what makes them better.
I have moves like you wouldn't believe, chiefy. :)
Check this out:
I'm here.
............................................... Now, I'm over here.
WEEEHAAAAAAAA!!! |
Post by frank // Mar 13, 2006, 10:06am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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mrbones: Yes, But you didnt ask me what makes them completely superior.
What makes your MagicBones Motions completely superior to most Motion Capture that is currently available?
mrbones: Small movements carry more emotional weight and intensity.
Care to poll the audience on that one?
If you're talking about subtle and intentional movements, then maybe....but if you're referring to the jitter of mocap-data, then I have to disagree. |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 10:10am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Frank,
No Polls needed on that one,
However I will reveal in due time,
Or when this poll reaches 51% in favor of Mocap.
Which ever comes first.
Thanks again and Cheers
P.S. MagicBones motions are 100% jitter free...
What makes your MagicBones Motions completely superior to most Motion Capture that is currently available?
Care to poll the audience on that one? :) |
Post by frank // Mar 13, 2006, 10:14am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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mrbones: Or when this poll reaches 51% in favor of Mocap.
Again, I am truly surprised that traditional seems to be the preferred method of character animation.
mrbones: P.S. MagicBones motions are 100% jitter free...
Congrats on that, then! Do you have any sample clips prepared yet? |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 10:16am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Frank,
Whatever dude....:banana:
Vote Mocap Folks, and suprise him again.
Cheers
Again, I am truly surprised that traditional seems to be the preferred method of character animation.
Congrats on that, then! Do you have any sample clips prepared yet? |
Post by frank // Mar 13, 2006, 10:28am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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mrbones:
Frank,
Whatever dude....
Vote Mocap Folks, and suprise him again.
Cheers
What is it with the "whatever dude" all the time? LOL! I asked a legit question.
If you claim that your motions are better than most of what's available, shouldn't you be able to back up that statement? |
Post by SteveBe // Mar 13, 2006, 10:29am
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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I voted for traditional but if I needed motion capture you'd be the first person
I'd call Mr Bones.
There should be a third option...
3. There's more important things should be worked on with TS7 first.
First you model, then you move! I have to wait 6 months for an option that
really doesn't matter much to me and it eats my free upgrade in the process,
then X months for the the next upgrade to get the modeling tools in Player.
BURN THE BRIDGE, SET tS7 FREE!
That is all.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/oceangraphics/TS/BridgeFire.gif |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 10:31am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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I already answered that question.
Vote Mocap and you will see the answer...
Cheers
What is it with the "whatever dude" all the time? I asked a legit question.
If you claim that your motions are better than most of what's available, shouldn't you be able to back up that statement? |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 10:34am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Thanks SteveB, You the Man..
Cheers
I voted for traditional but if I needed motion capture you'd be the first person I'd call Mr Bones. |
Post by frank // Mar 13, 2006, 10:38am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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It's hard to get a straight answer from you, that's all. It's either "I will reveal in due time" or "A true magician never reveals his secrets.". LOL! So if I'm a customer, I just have to base my purchasing decision on that instead of a good reason WHY your stuff is better than others.
:) |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 10:47am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Frank,
Thats a mighty big if, because I know your never going to buy MagicBones,
I wouldnt exactly call that a straight question either.
I know you are a Mostu fan! Forgive me for questioning your motives.
My point is why ask a question when you yourself are genuinley not interested?
There have been many questions on this and other forums where I asked you a perfectly legitimate question, to which you gave a flippant reply, or never even replyed at all.
So unless you are asking on behalf of all TrueSpace users or potential MagicBones customers, For which I dont think they chose you to be their spokesperson.
P.s. I already told you how you can get the answer, change the poll result to 51% in favor of Mocap.
Cheers:banana:
It's hard to get a straight answer from you, that's all. It's either "I will reveal in due time" or "A true magician never reveals his secrets.". LOL! So if I'm a customer, I just have to base my purchasing decision on that instead of a good reason WHY your stuff is better than others.
:) |
Post by stan // Mar 13, 2006, 12:49pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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ok mrbones..you nearly wore me down..no bones about it...haven't voted yet...how would they help in stills?? for posing..
I imagine mrbones out in his mocap studio till the wee hours.. :D |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 12:58pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Stan,
Using Mocap for posing would be extremly quick and easy.
Give me an examples of the types of poses you are looking for and I will provide you with an illustrated example.
Thanks again for your interest.
Cheers
ok mrbones..you nearly wore me down..no bones about it...haven't voted yet...how would they help in stills?? for posing..
I imagine mrbones out in his mocap studio till the wee hours.. :D |
Post by stan // Mar 13, 2006, 1:12pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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mrbones..having a mrbones pose library would be good for us still artists..I've no interest in animation but bought motion studio for posing..but now in ts7 it's broken ..:(
regular poses..every day stuff..sitting drinking a coffee type thing.. |
Post by mrbones // Mar 13, 2006, 1:15pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Broken?
I thought Frank was promoting it as working?
Is that not enough to get your vote?
Cheers
P.s. I will provide example as promised...
mrbones..having a mrbones pose library would be good for us still artists..I've no interest in animation but bought motion studio for posing..but now in ts7 it's broken ..:(
regular poses..every day stuff..sitting drinking a coffee type thing.. |
Post by stan // Mar 13, 2006, 1:30pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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I think Frank has some form of a work around ..but it doesn't actually work in ts7..you know load plugin..make bones attach to skin..it won't do that..or anything much else..don't try saving the scene in ts7.. |
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