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Feb 10, 2001, 10:53pm

I was going through the NGs and I saw one in the Worldbuilders called
"Ejection of homosexuals from worlds..."And what I saw was rather
disturbing.
I don't know if anyone else agrees, but that is just wrong.
He didn't provoke them. Did he?
He asked a simple question and then he was attacked ( couldn't think of a
better word )by a GK at Awgate.
I think that it is wrong just to eject people because of their sexual
preference. And I'm tired of seeing them "bashed" when most of them are
really nice people and don't advance on the same sex ( Unless the other is
of the same sexuality)
Well I could go on for a long time, but I gotta go do something.
And yes this IS a community topic. Because it has to deal with AW.

--
We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
That's is the question.

Feb 11, 2001, 12:13am

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
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I think the problem is that he entered "as a gay" and not "as a
citizen".

The question "are gays allowed here" sounds implicite like "may I
talk/act gay here". I would never have ejected him because of this
question but I at least would have monitored him in a G rated world.

If I entered a world asking "are germans allowed here" that would mean
that I want to enter "as a german" and not as a citizen of AW - my
question would have a reason. If someone would come into a world with
this question I would not eject him but monitor him, maybe keep the
mouse cursor above the eject button at least for a while.

Some of the words quoted from the chat were really discriminating (and
sounded very dumb) but I think there actually was a provokation in the
way he entered, similar to the idiots coming into worlds and the first
line they say contains "a/s/l" or "is one of you female".

So I decided for me to see him as an idiot not for beeing gay but for
the way he entered the worlds. This is not a final decision - just an
impression.

Ananas

p.s.: Not to be misunderstood : I would have thought the same if he
would have entered the world with the words "are heteros allowed here"

crazy glue il schrieb:
>
> I was going through the NGs and I saw one in the Worldbuilders called
> "Ejection of homosexuals from worlds..."And what I saw was rather
> disturbing.
> I don't know if anyone else agrees, but that is just wrong.
> He didn't provoke them. Did he?
> He asked a simple question and then he was attacked ( couldn't think of a
> better word )by a GK at Awgate.
> I think that it is wrong just to eject people because of their sexual
> preference. And I'm tired of seeing them "bashed" when most of them are
> really nice people and don't advance on the same sex ( Unless the other is
> of the same sexuality)
> Well I could go on for a long time, but I gotta go do something.
> And yes this IS a community topic. Because it has to deal with AW.
>
> --
> We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
> ~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
> crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
> Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
> Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
> That's is the question.
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--------------E39B26C6F284C3C70DE0F988--

Feb 11, 2001, 1:26am

I think you should reconcider your conclution here, Ananas...

Unfotunately we live in a sick world where minorities are not accepted. In many
real life countries, and in several social aspects as well, it's not legal being
gay, or gay people are not accepted. Gay people are fired from their job, gay
people are humiliated, some times even physically wounded or worse... How can
you say that's the same for i.e. the Germans or any other nationality?

How would you know that the person asking if gays were allowed, was not in one
of those real life countries? Or had mad experience from other chat systems? In
AW's gay town, Pink Village, we have residents that are worried to death to
leave any clue of their real life identity, because of awaiting punishments if
anyone in their real life got to know about their sexual orientation. This is
all worth crying for :(

So... you shouldn't take it for granted that a person asking such a question has
anything concerning sex in mind at all, but rather refers to the political and
social sickness of our real world. And, by ejecting him without any more
questions, well... hooray for the human nature...

I don't know the story you referred to, and of course I don't see anything wrong
in redirecting a person, but only if the person *does* something wrong, or asks
for your suggestion. I don't see how anyone could have any right to eject
someone because of their sexual preferences, as long as they don't start sex
talking - but that has absolutely nothing to do with being gay or not...

Bille

[View Quote] > I think the problem is that he entered "as a gay" and not "as a
> citizen".
>
> The question "are gays allowed here" sounds implicite like "may I
> talk/act gay here". I would never have ejected him because of this
> question but I at least would have monitored him in a G rated world.
>
> If I entered a world asking "are germans allowed here" that would mean
> that I want to enter "as a german" and not as a citizen of AW - my
> question would have a reason. If someone would come into a world with
> this question I would not eject him but monitor him, maybe keep the
> mouse cursor above the eject button at least for a while.
>
> Some of the words quoted from the chat were really discriminating (and
> sounded very dumb) but I think there actually was a provokation in the
> way he entered, similar to the idiots coming into worlds and the first
> line they say contains "a/s/l" or "is one of you female".
>
> So I decided for me to see him as an idiot not for beeing gay but for
> the way he entered the worlds. This is not a final decision - just an
> impression.
>
> Ananas
>
> p.s.: Not to be misunderstood : I would have thought the same if he
> would have entered the world with the words "are heteros allowed here"
>
> crazy glue il schrieb:

Feb 11, 2001, 1:35am

they are bashed for running there mouths in a moderated area.
Being gay or stright is really a personal matter. why go around
in a area and just accounce it. you will get bashed. That talk
that was in the logs that edited seemed like the guy was asking for a bashing

Who chats about that in AW public areas anyway. When I talk about
my girlfriend or realitionships and sexual things of nature its in private
with my friends. asking if its ok to be gay at a Chat area online is just
asking for a ripping kiddo :)

[View Quote] > I was going through the NGs and I saw one in the Worldbuilders called
> "Ejection of homosexuals from worlds..."And what I saw was rather
> disturbing.
> I don't know if anyone else agrees, but that is just wrong.
> He didn't provoke them. Did he?
> He asked a simple question and then he was attacked ( couldn't think of a
> better word )by a GK at Awgate.
> I think that it is wrong just to eject people because of their sexual
> preference. And I'm tired of seeing them "bashed" when most of them are
> really nice people and don't advance on the same sex ( Unless the other is
> of the same sexuality)
> Well I could go on for a long time, but I gotta go do something.
> And yes this IS a community topic. Because it has to deal with AW.
>
> --
> We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
> ~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
> crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
> Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
> Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
> That's is the question.

Feb 11, 2001, 1:42am

AWGate has a G rating as in Disney movie level of chatting allowed.
Basically sexual oriented chat is not allowed there. And all he wanted to do
was have a sexually oriented chat, hense he was ejected.

He broke the no sex topics in AWGate rule, its as simple as that. It wasn't
because he was gay, its because he wanted to only talk about being gay and
flaunting himself among those that did NOT want to talk about the gay issue.

[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:04am

what makes you think that he *wants* to have a sexually oriented chat? He
wanted to know if he would get basked or not, if he could chat without being
attacked.
ect.



--
We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
That's is the question.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:12am

simple this guy was trying to start a fight it was his only intent from the
second he walked in to the gate.
and then in to other worlds as well.
and dont even try calling me a homophobe as im am not im not gay etheir and
ive known 2 gays one was a fill in manger where i use to work the other was
a employee that moved out of town 4 or 5 months after i got there because he
had a better job.
id not say they were freinds sence i dont gen try and make freinds where i
work.
im there to work and thats it.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:15am

Don't you know that most ppl tend to believe that being gay is all about sex...
they are not capable of seeing the difference between what a person is and what
a person does. The reason why it is so, must be that being hetero obviously is
all about sex... :o)

Bille

[View Quote] > what makes you think that he *wants* to have a sexually oriented chat? He
> wanted to know if he would get basked or not, if he could chat without being
> attacked.
> ect.
>
> --
> We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
> ~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
> crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
> Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
> Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
> That's is the question.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:22am

I don't recall calling you a homophobe, actually i don't recall posting anything
for you at all...? So I'm not quite sure what to say, hehe:)

If you are Ananas, I simply thought your conclution above was a little
one-tracked, and I was not aware of the logg that was posted further down. After
reading it I'm not sure whether it's a fake thingy, or not, but most of my
comments are more general ...

Bille

[View Quote] > simple this guy was trying to start a fight it was his only intent from the
> second he walked in to the gate.
> and then in to other worlds as well.
> and dont even try calling me a homophobe as im am not im not gay etheir and
> ive known 2 gays one was a fill in manger where i use to work the other was
> a employee that moved out of town 4 or 5 months after i got there because he
> had a better job.
> id not say they were freinds sence i dont gen try and make freinds where i
> work.
> im there to work and thats it.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:31am

No i didn't know that * wink wink*

--
We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
That's is the question.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:48am

Actually sexual prefrence is falls under sexual content of any kind. All
craig had to say is "whys that" and then listen to the explaination. Instead
he is doing the "I am a poor minority and I can't handle being yelled at by
the big bad establishment."

For all we know everyone in AWGate could have been gay as well but they had
the tact to not go screaming "GAY HERE!" where little kids are. (Now please
don't flame me for that statement I was just using that as an example.) Just
because being gay isn't all about sex, doesn't mean you should be flaunting
it and thumbing your nose at others like he was doing.

I have many friends that are gay, and they know I am straight and we get
along fine. And have real interesting conversations, but both them and I
have enough tact that we don't try to force our preferences on each other.

They do what they do, and I do what I do. Its just a matter of knowing when
it is appropriate to have a healthy discussion about the gay issue and when
not to. And in AWGate its not appropriate.

Its not a matter of the majority bashing a minority its a matter of he made
the mistake of assuming that because they asked and then told him to stop
that they were against him. When in fact they were just following the rules
that AWCI has set for all of their worlds.

He shouldn't let one bad experience sour him to AW in general. Just he
should have read the guidelines, a link to which appears whenever you enter
AWCI worlds. Then he would have known without having to ask that AWGate
wasn't the place for it, and then he could have asked if there were places
within AW that not only allowed but welcomed gay chatting. Even if it is
only platonic.

[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 2:51am

If he did not want a sexual oriented chat why did he had to ask if gays are
allowed? I mean what difference does it make if one is gay or hetero in a
G-rated chat?And no,beeing hetero is not all about sex,actually in my case
it is a total lack of sex (at the moment).

Drac
bille <bille at hinsides.no> kirjoitti
viestissä:3A861016.1C29046D at hinsides.no...
> Don't you know that most ppl tend to believe that being gay is all about
sex...
> they are not capable of seeing the difference between what a person is and
what
> a person does. The reason why it is so, must be that being hetero
obviously is
> all about sex... :o)
>
> Bille
>
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 3:04am

I just had to do this, "little" kids? What are you talking about?

--
We all have atleast ONE crazything in us >:]
~Johnathon a.k.a CrAzY gLuE IL
crazyglue3 at hotmail.com
Idiots are plentiful these days, what would we do without them?
Geniuses are rare, but what would it be like without them?
That's is the question.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 4:30am

Some absurd people think that children shouldn't be exposed to the realities
of the world, simply because those realities may not fit with the "perfect"
picture that people like to try to pretend to exist in. Basically, people
think you'll corrupt a child by allowing him/her to see the world for what
it really is. Ludicrous, if you ask me. But, none the less, people will
fight to the death on the grounds that you shouldn't say "inappropriate
things," whatever that is.

Hell, if the kid can handle the software, he should also be relatively
equiped to handle his own reality.

[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 5:49am

The reason these so called "absurd people" do not want children exposed to
this is because of the pervs that are looking to find them and talk them
into leaving home and coming to them to either be killed or forced into
child porn.

I admit that is the worst case senario but that is the reason why we have
guidelines like that. To prevent this and identify any and all pervs that
may have found there way into the chat room.

[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 6:20am

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
--------------9CEAA5A16C58AC1295441CD7
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I would not have ejected but monitored him because of his weird way of
starting his conversation. That has nothing to do with his beeing gay.
If you read my previous reply again you will see that this is what I
wrote.
I do not defend the people who argued against him and ejected him - but
he should think over his strategy. I do not visit worlds where any GROUP
of people isn't allowed (one exception exists - I have an allergy
against fascists).
But I think individuals acting stupid have to expect stupid reactions,
and that was what happened (I'm sure you've read the original incident
now that crazy glue il referred to).

I am aware of the problems that gay people have - not only in many but
in most real life countries, including US and germany. Even if it isn't
allowed by law gay people are discriminated.


bille schrieb:
>
> I think you should reconcider your conclution here, Ananas...
>
> Unfotunately we live in a sick world where minorities are not accepted. In many
> real life countries, and in several social aspects as well, it's not legal being
> gay, or gay people are not accepted. Gay people are fired from their job, gay
> people are humiliated, some times even physically wounded or worse... How can
> you say that's the same for i.e. the Germans or any other nationality?
>
> How would you know that the person asking if gays were allowed, was not in one
> of those real life countries? Or had mad experience from other chat systems? In
> AW's gay town, Pink Village, we have residents that are worried to death to
> leave any clue of their real life identity, because of awaiting punishments if
> anyone in their real life got to know about their sexual orientation. This is
> all worth crying for :(
>
> So... you shouldn't take it for granted that a person asking such a question has
> anything concerning sex in mind at all, but rather refers to the political and
> social sickness of our real world. And, by ejecting him without any more
> questions, well... hooray for the human nature...
>
> I don't know the story you referred to, and of course I don't see anything wrong
> in redirecting a person, but only if the person *does* something wrong, or asks
> for your suggestion. I don't see how anyone could have any right to eject
> someone because of their sexual preferences, as long as they don't start sex
> talking - but that has absolutely nothing to do with being gay or not...
>
> Bille
>
[View Quote] begin:vcard
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--------------9CEAA5A16C58AC1295441CD7--

Feb 11, 2001, 6:38am

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
--------------177385C38969929DEE9E761E
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You're right and wrong - off course kids have to know about things that
happen in R/L and about all kinds of people in R/L.
But some informations need to be moderated, discussed on child level.
And as you can easily see in the chat protocol (falsified or not), this
is not what happened after the discussion started.

Some children are easy to influence - and what makes you think they can
only be influenced by the tolerant adults? Discussions like that - those
without intelligent arguments and full of negative emotions and
sometimes even hate - can influence children as well as intelligent
informations.

I do not have children, but if I had I would prefer to explain some
important things before they have contact to people who just argue
emotion-based. There are so many intolerant people everywhere in the
world and I think the reason is that parents do not influence the kids
to be tolerant. The best thing that happened to me is to have a mother
like mine who used much time on my social education. Many mothers don't
take this time so the risk is high that children learn their social
skills in places with a negative atmosphere - and these social skills do
sure not include tolerance. This risk is even higher for todays computer
kids - I bet for many the computer is a parent replacement, and sure not
a good one.

35850 schrieb:
>
> Some absurd people think that children shouldn't be exposed to the realities
> of the world, simply because those realities may not fit with the "perfect"
> picture that people like to try to pretend to exist in. Basically, people
> think you'll corrupt a child by allowing him/her to see the world for what
> it really is. Ludicrous, if you ask me. But, none the less, people will
> fight to the death on the grounds that you shouldn't say "inappropriate
> things," whatever that is.
>
> Hell, if the kid can handle the software, he should also be relatively
> equiped to handle his own reality.
>
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--------------177385C38969929DEE9E761E--

Feb 11, 2001, 12:10pm

[View Quote] yes, and you can prevent that from happening by not letting those children
know about sex, being gay (or straight or whatever), child porn, pedophiles,
and stuff like that.

rolu

(note for the ones who didn't get it: this was sarcastic)

Feb 11, 2001, 2:14pm

simple he was wanting to be ejected no other reason it would not suprise me
if he doesnt do this same thing in other g rated chat rooms.
He has almost the exact same MO as a troll i ejected in a blaxxun 3d chat
colony city.
This guy comes in and opens with any gays here.
i said there is no sexual chat of any type includeing questions about gays
etc.
This is a grated chat room and children are to be considered present here at
all times.
Please do not ask again and refrain from any other sexual related chat.
all of this was in whisper
then he starts witht the same sort of stuff no getting harsher i wanred him
twice more in pub chat then ejected him.
his name was also i love so and so its unlikly to be the same person but i
think you get my point this is typical troll behavior to come in and
dilibratly break rules and to try and turn the sit around to make the sec
peeps look bad
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 3:21pm

The question here is, was flynn 1 right in ejecting I Love Graig?
In my opinion he was not in the right. In my opinion flynn 1 is just against
anyone who is gay.


""""I love Craig": I am just wondering, but are gay people allowed here?

"I love Craig": because usually I get ejected if someone finds out I am
gay"""""

Graig states he has been ejected before just because some one finds out he
is gay. He clearly was not looking for a potential partner or a sexual
conversation. He simply wanted to know if he would be ejected for being gay.


""""""flynn 1: hope you are not gonna bring yer bugs to my party :(""""

A responce like this tells me that flynn 1 is clearly against gays just for
being gay.


"""""flynn 1: we have children here i love craig, we dont have that talk
here ok?

ok, flynn did state why gay activity is not allowed. But, he did not state
it in a professional manor. And, he as much as accused Graig of saying
something offencive just for asking if a gay person was allowed in the gate.

""""""I love Craig": I am just asking

"I love Craig": no reason for an attitude

flynn 1: I love craig, please stop this now"""""

Graig was trying to keep things calm. Maybe he could have chosen his words
better. But, I don't see where he did anything that needed stopping.

""""""I love Craig": I do not deserve to be treated this way

flynn 1: oh be quiet you fool, cant you see that it isnt suitable chat for a
place with kids?"""""""

Craig is right. He didn't deserve to be treated that way. And just what did
Craig say that wasn't suitable chat for a place with kids????? As far as I
can tell, NOTHING.


""""""I love Craig": I do not respect you calling me a fool, flynn

"I love Craig": you are the fool here sir

flynn 1: & i dont care!

"I love Craig": thats exactly the attitude that I dont respect

"I love Craig": "you just don't care" about things"""""

I don't have much respect for flynn 1 either.

"""""Lady TeaL: This is a place to have fun, not to be tormented by
homosexuals"""""

As far as I can tell no one was tormenting anyone. I guess Lady TeaL is
tormented by the mear thought of gays. Sounds like a personal problem to me.
:)

""""dUNcE: u are being treated the way gays should be"""""

Well we can all should be able to see where dUNcE is comeing from :(


""""""CYBORG": Flyynn needs a big gay man to givr him a lap dance

"CYBORG": Do you want a lap dance too?

"CYBORG": A lap dance on your laptop

CYBORG": Howq do you know what a lap dance is? Ms. G-rated"""""""

Throughout this whole conversation, CYBORG was the only one saying anything
that could be concidered offencive to children. Yet CYBORG was not ejected.
Why???????????

Read it again people. flynn 1 is prejudice. He provocted I Love Craig from
the second Craig mentioned he was gay. Craig did not lose his temper, and he
said NOTHING offencive. In the end flynn 1 ejected him for NO REASON. This
to me is not acceptable.

Slice it any way you want flynn 1 was in the WRONG !!!!
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 4:15pm

[View Quote] Assuming the log is accurate.. the other log from awteen has been shown to
be doctored to provide the resposes required with differences in what was
said, things said which were added and an eject log that shows the user
left, and wasnt ejected.. Therefore one can assume this one is as well, and
therefore the whole deal has no credebility and cannot be trusted and is
obviously purely designed to provoke.

Moria

Feb 11, 2001, 5:39pm

i my self feel both were doctored.
look how some times craigs chat is black other times its gray looks faked to
me.
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 7:48pm

lol, so homosexuals now are generally criminals, too??? what's the next - that
gay ppl are to blame for the Earth's ozon problem ?

[View Quote] > The reason these so called "absurd people" do not want children exposed to
> this is because of the pervs that are looking to find them and talk them
> into leaving home and coming to them to either be killed or forced into
> child porn.
>
> I admit that is the worst case senario but that is the reason why we have
> guidelines like that. To prevent this and identify any and all pervs that
> may have found there way into the chat room.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 7:51pm

sure, I read the logg in next thread after replying, and the duscussion subject is
slightly different...:)

B

[View Quote] > I would not have ejected but monitored him because of his weird way of
> starting his conversation. That has nothing to do with his beeing gay.
> If you read my previous reply again you will see that this is what I
> wrote.
> I do not defend the people who argued against him and ejected him - but
> he should think over his strategy. I do not visit worlds where any GROUP
> of people isn't allowed (one exception exists - I have an allergy
> against fascists).
> But I think individuals acting stupid have to expect stupid reactions,
> and that was what happened (I'm sure you've read the original incident
> now that crazy glue il referred to).
>
> I am aware of the problems that gay people have - not only in many but
> in most real life countries, including US and germany. Even if it isn't
> allowed by law gay people are discriminated.
>
> bille schrieb:

Feb 11, 2001, 7:56pm

and straight people would never do this, now would they?

--
J B E L L
http://platinum.awjbell.com
G O I N G P L A T I N U M
[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 8:09pm

I couldn't agree more to your statements, imagine, but there is another question
that appears after this whole discussion that also is worth looking into. I can
accept the majority's oppinion that there's no point in mention sexual
references in a world intended for new users to get help to use the software
etc.

But - why is it obviously ok that other users humilate a gay person in AWGate?
See the comments below. Knowing that some of flynn 1's comments might have been
excerted by i love craig; it would be interesting to know whether the GateKeeper
did correct Lady TeaL and dUNcE for discriminating another user. This is quite
bad behavior, and would be bad for any kid to witness... This is a point that
most of the "debatants" of this thread has left out...

Shouldn't obvious discriminating in AWGate be a good eject reason if being gay
is?

Bille

imagine wrote <snipped>:

> """""Lady TeaL: This is a place to have fun, not to be tormented by
> homosexuals"""""
>
> """"dUNcE: u are being treated the way gays should be"""""
>

Feb 11, 2001, 9:12pm

Yes it would be interesting to know if they were dealt with also.
Is a log kept at AWgate?
Is there a way to get the log if it is?
Imagine


[View Quote]

Feb 12, 2001, 5:26am

Man I think the average intelligence of the younger posters is at the bottom
of the barrel sometimes.

[View Quote] I never said it was the gays or straight people in the post did I? There are
Pervs of both sexual orientation out there. And I thought you guys would be
more intelligent than you are proving your self to be.

[View Quote] How stupid can a person get? Where in my previous post did I say homosexuals
are all criminals? READ the whole post before you respond to it not just the
first few lines.

[View Quote] No you prevent that by keeping them away from places where the Pervs
generally hang out. AW has rules to keep the Pervs out and create an
environment that is safe for kids.

Still though of course Pervs (or trolls as some people call them) find a way
into AW as was shown buy the murder of a young girl.

The GK could have handled it better, that I agree with. But sexual
orientation is considered as part of sexuality and sexual content as far as
the rules go.

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