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Jul 3, 2002, 4:38am

Ok, I'm looking into buying a new video card for my comp (i currently have
an ATI Radeon DDR 32mb), but I'm finding myself clueless as to what to look
for in a good card. I mean yeah, the more memory the better, but all that
other technical stuff boggles me to no end. So, what do I look for in a
video card, and does anyone know of any good ones (that are affordable) that
will last for a long time (or at least a long time as computers go).



-Eric

Jul 3, 2002, 4:53am

the new Nvidea gefroce 4 ti4200 are fast and not that expensive about 250 $
here


"eric" <eric at disaxiom.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3d229bdd$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Ok, I'm looking into buying a new video card for my comp (i currently have
> an ATI Radeon DDR 32mb), but I'm finding myself clueless as to what to
look
> for in a good card. I mean yeah, the more memory the better, but all that
> other technical stuff boggles me to no end. So, what do I look for in a
> video card, and does anyone know of any good ones (that are affordable)
that
> will last for a long time (or at least a long time as computers go).
>
>
>
> -Eric
>
>

Jul 3, 2002, 4:54am

I just looked at that one.. whats the difference between it and the ti4400
and ti4600 besides considerable price? :P


[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 5:17am

4600 is like double expensive , and just a lil faster , even if you have the
500 $ , i would pick the ti4200 without a doubt

"eric" <eric at disaxiom.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3d229fae$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I just looked at that one.. whats the difference between it and the ti4400
> and ti4600 besides considerable price? :P
>
>
[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 5:45am

best thing to do... check out the benchmarks. Basically, benchmarks just
show the frames per second in a bunch of different 3D games such as Quake3
or Serious Sam. Once the benchmarks reach 100fps, it doesn't really get much
better. The computer refresh rate and the amount of frames per second your
eye can see make any more than 100fps to be virtually impossible to notice
the difference between 100 and 200 fps. Just by using ActiveWorlds you can
tell what frame rate speed looks good. Just about any 3D card that has 128MB
of RAM is plenty good enough for ActiveWorlds. Ya want cheap? I suggest
Radeon's All-In-Wonder 128MB card. The best? Geforce4 Ti4600

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 1:36pm

actually Eric to be truthfull I would go with the GeForce 4 4600 MX, I have
a friend who bought the more expensive one and a friend who bought the MX
one the only differance is that the MX is considered "generic" brand, but I
guarentee you are going to save a lot of money for the same exact speed for
the same exact warentee :)

-Mod
[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 1:58pm

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1647
http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q2/020418/index.html


[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:19pm

Again my question, what is the real difference between the 4200, 4400, &
4600... and which is best worth my money?



[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:31pm

I just baught a Leadetek TI4200 128 MB with VIVO for $199.00

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:33pm

GeForce 4 TI 4200 I mean :)

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:35pm

best worth your money, the 4200 definately. They're just different versions
and obviously the latest version is the best so 4600 is the top of the line
video card right now. But the difference between the 4200, 4400, and 4600
isn't much at all. Infact, it's so little that I think the 4200 and 4400
would be considered #2 and #3 in top of the line video cards.

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:36pm

just wondering, what is your average FPS?

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:42pm

I just got it this morning and havent been home to plug it in...

Its replacing my ATI All In Wonder 7500.

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 4:44pm

oh :-P Well, let me know when ya get it setup. I'm still on a 16MB vid card
and dying to get a 128MB (waiting for Matrox's new vid card which will top
the geforce 4) :-)

[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 8:03pm

eric , just buy any card with a geforce 4 ti 4200 , its one of the best ,
and not expensive :) you wont regret it

"dion" <Dion at digevo.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3d234606$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> oh :-P Well, let me know when ya get it setup. I'm still on a 16MB vid
card
> and dying to get a 128MB (waiting for Matrox's new vid card which will top
> the geforce 4) :-)
>
[View Quote]

Jul 3, 2002, 11:41pm

Would you still get great frame rates and performance out of a Geforce 4 on
an older PC?

Currently using a PII 300, I'm not looking forward to the day I must shell
out $1,500 US on a new PC to get my frame rate above 5 in built up areas...
but if I could stick with the old PC and spend $200 on a new (newer) video
card this would be something I could do right now.

***Update***

I did the research myself... GeForce4 Ti requires at least a Pentium 3,
32MB RAM and Win 98 SE

I guess I'll have to keep saving the pennies.

Regards, Justin


[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 12:25am

$1500? pfft!
Spend like $150 for a Duron 900mhz and a newer mobo package and you'll be
fine for the GeForce4

[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 12:32am

for 200 you allready have a fast athlon


"dion" <Dion at digevo.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3d23b214$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> $1500? pfft!
> Spend like $150 for a Duron 900mhz and a newer mobo package and you'll be
> fine for the GeForce4
>
[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 12:43am

dunno if you could get a mobo with that, though./

[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 1:10am

yeh ... instead of buying a 250 $ geforce 4 , spend it on a nice athlon + mb


"dion" <Dion at digevo.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3d23b667 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> dunno if you could get a mobo with that, though./
>
[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 1:57am

bleh

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Jul 4, 2002, 2:19am

Athlon XP 1800 Processor w/ Fan Retail: $105.00
Shuttle AK31A Motherboard: $55.00

I would get that first :)

-------------------------
[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 2:19am

Athlon XP 1800 Processor w/ Fan Retail: $105.00
Shuttle AK31A Motherboard: $55.00

I would get that first :)

-------------------------
[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 2:29am

bah, go for the 2200 :-P

[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 3:18am

You all make it sound so easy... but...

If I want to upgrade the processor I *must* upgrade the parent-board - no
option. If I upgrade those so I can then upgrade the video card I think
I've reached the threshhold of looking at all the other things that are
cuyrrently inadequate... My 6 gig HD is almost full, and the CD
player/burner is slow as... time for a new operating system? etc. etc.

Also, buying a new PC in total would allow me to have a side by side
operation, which has many advantages, and few of the disadvantages of never
having built a PC before.

I will just wait - thanks for the comments though.

Regards, Justin


[View Quote]

Jul 4, 2002, 2:11pm

there's a first time for everything ;-) Building a PC is fun! :-P

[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2002, 8:01am

[View Quote] > also other questions of other persons...


It solely depends on what you want to do with it. I just ran an
extensive test with AW, using 3 computers and 5 video cards.

As a result, I can say that there is but little difference at all
between GF2 Pro and GF Ti 4600, in some cases even not noticeable at
all. In this regard, I consider the GF Ti 4xxx a waste of money when it
is ONLY used for AW, you then better go for a GF Mx 400 for around $99
or get a good deal on the (discontinued) GF 2 Pro when still available.

Memory is only an issue when you are in the habit of running games that
require anitialiasing and/or using high resolutions (eg. 1600*1200).
When you want the card to just run AW in let's say 1024*768 and with no
antialiasing (which is in fact not even needed and can be switched off),
then a card with 32 MB does fine already and 64 MB is already more than
you need (all GF2 Pro/3/4 have at least 64MB anyway). There is no
reasonable way that 128 MB can be used in AW at all.

BTW, I ran also a test on a notebook P3/1000 with a 4 (four) MB ATI
Mobility graphic card in it, and it worked almost as fast as a P3/1000
desktop machine with a GeForce card (no kidding). In this regard, the
memory amount is much less important than the internal memory management
and access speed. Graphic cards that are tailored and optimized, as most
cards today (2001/2002) are, will all perform well _in_AW_, no matter
how much memory they have.

The difference between TI4200 and TI4600 are the clock speeds (and in
some cases the RAM access speed). I tried all clock speeds up to 4600
overclocked by 10% and found little if any difference at all when it
comes to the practical effect on AW, in this regard, I consider
4200-4600 absolutely equal in AW-performance.

Finally, the impact of computers. I took a P3/667 as a 100% base and
then scored on a P3/1000 = 169% and on an Athlon XP 2000 = 238% (all in
software rendering mode to eliminate the influence of the graphic card).
Now, with a graphic card every computer gained considerably speed,
namely:

ATI Expert 200 32MB = 30%-90% (no Dx8 improvement)
TNT2/64 64 MB = 30%-90% (no Dx8 improvement)
GF2 MX = 260%-480% (Dx 8)
GF2 Pro = 310%-440% (Dx8)
GF 4 at 400 = 450%-930%

Please note that these figures are basing on software rendering and are
relative to the base speed of the computer used - it just shows a range
of improvements and you will most likely find YOUR gain somewhere in the
middle of this range.

There is another interesting thing I found: Sometimes, the Athlon 2000
is way faster than the Pentium 1000, while sometimes, the Pentium is
faster, sometimes, the GF4 speeds up the Pentium more than the Athlon
and sometimes it is vice versa, so, as a general resumee...

there is _NO_GENERAL_RULE which computer type or speed and graphic card
type and speed to use best _with_AW_, the only thing that one can
definitely say is that faster computer are mostly faster than slower
ones and faster graphic cards are mostly faster than slower ones <lol>.

The ONLY THREE THINGS written in stone are:

- Faster processors are faster in software rendering mode
- DirectX7 video mode is faster than software rendering mode, when a
suitable graphic card is used
- DirectX8 mode is faster than DirectX7 mode, when a suitable graphic
card is used

For those who think about upgrading their computer system only for
_AW_use_, I suggest this:

- less than 64MB RAM: upgrade to 128MB or 256MB, higher values have no
real effect in AW.
- P3/300 and below: upgrade motherboard (AGP slot!) and processor (any
P800+/A800+)
- Pentium, Celeron, Duron, K7, Athlon at 350-1000: when you have an AGP
slot and an old graphic card: get a new graphic card, when you do not
have an AGP slot: get a new mainboard with AGP slot and a new graphic
card
- Pentium, Celeron, Duron, Athlon 1000+ with a GeForce 2+ graphic card:_
No upgrade at all needed!

Finally, the whole article is basing on the useage _in_AW_, when you
want to use your computer mainly to watch or cut movies or play shooter
games, then you will want to look for a card AND computer system that is
specialized/optimized for your needs, eg. for video work, you want to
look for a Radeon or Matrox graphic card and probably a P4 cpu, and for
shooter games, for a high speed GeForce4 graphic card in combination
with one of the latest Athlon/P4 releases.

KF

Jul 5, 2002, 8:41am

just out of curisoity, do you have the frame rates for all of the
combinations you tested?

BTW, that is some REALLY useful information. Thanks a bunch :-)

[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2002, 9:59am

[View Quote] I do, but comparison is hardly possible, since the environment is
changing all the time due to building and other changes.

I tested 3 different spots in 3 different worlds (objects all from the
same object path and physical server) with no avatars in sight,
visibility fixed to 100m and within a short time frame via the same
connection, so that they are absolutely comparable to each other, but as
said above, could most probably not be reproduced today anymore.

As an excerpt, here a few data:

P3/ 667, SOFT, 3.1 - 2.9 - 5.3
P3/1000, SOFT, 5.0 - 6.0 - 8.1
AT/2000, SOFT, 7.8 - 7.7 - 11.4

P3 GF4400 Dx7, 17.8 - 22.4 - 21.7
AT GF4400 Dx7, 19.3 - 16.0 - 27.0

P3 GF4400 Dx8, 45.3 - 62.1 - 44.9
AT GF4400 Dx8, 53.6 - 65.6 - 60.5

AT GF2Pro Dx7, 16.8 - 15.2 - 26.4
AT GF2Pro Dx8, 32.2 - 40.9 - 61.2

AT ATI32 Dx7, 11.5 - 11.5 - 21.2
AT TNT64 Dx7, 9.9 - 9.4 - 16.5

Framerate differences of 5-10 are quite random and when you log in a
couple of times, you will most likely see framerates to be sometimes
higher and sometimes lower for no obvious reason.

In this regard, I would consider a "clearly visible framerate
improvement of 10 frames" to be just an urban legend, even small tweaks
on a computer can already yield such results.

In addition, it seems that the performance of graphic cards follow also
some randomness, when eg. a GeForce speeds up one computer type by 50%
than another in one spot, but not in another (or, in other words,
framerate improvements depends even on an actual environment and cannot
be generalized.

The living, dynamic, AW is, other than many static games not suited for
purely technical comparisions or "show me yours, I'll show you mine
(framerate)" plays. :-)

KF

Jul 5, 2002, 10:14am

hmm very interesting stuff. :-)
GF4400 w/ athlon gets ya 60fps average... sounds good to me :-)

[View Quote]

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