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Sep 17, 2003, 6:03pm

when makign a texture we shoudl have it so when you use a certain rgb hex
code it will delete that when applied in aw so that it is not there, and cut
out, it would allow for nice textures, or pictures w/o the use of mask.

also maybe one to make somethign transparent?

Sep 17, 2003, 10:54pm

do you mean make certin colors transparent? like if i have a texture with a
pink area arround it and i want to make that part transparent? if that is
what you are saying then that will almost never work on JPGs unless it is
like 100% quality which is usually large file. JPGs tend to not have a solid
color thouhout it like this example:
http://objects.activeworlds.com/aw/textures/booth1.jpg the red is not
solid.. only way for that to work is if aw accepts GIFs.

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Sep 17, 2003, 11:07pm

[View Quote] GIF sucks, why even suggest it. Especially with the incrediously insane
cost to include it. Go with PNG/MNG.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 18, 2003, 11:03am

GIF does not suck, only your OPINION does Bowen....:) do your home work.

"On Friday, 20th June 2003, the death knell sounds for US patent number 4,558,302. Having benefited its owner, the Unisys Corporation for 20 years, the contents of the patent are entered into the Public Domain and may be used absolutely freely by anyone. "




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Sep 18, 2003, 11:23am

256 colors are crap. PNG is superior.

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Sep 18, 2003, 11:40am

it totally depends on what your doing with the image....:)


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Sep 18, 2003, 1:46pm

A high quality image that is small in size preferably.

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Sep 18, 2003, 2:34pm

"binarybud" <leo at realPANTStourvision.com> wrote in
news:3f69ad0c$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> GIF does not suck, only your OPINION does Bowen....:) do your home
> work.
>
> "On Friday, 20th June 2003, the death knell sounds for US patent
> number 4,558,302. Having benefited its owner, the Unisys Corporation
> for 20 years, the contents of the patent are entered into the Public
> Domain and may be used absolutely freely by anyone. "

There's another patent, not expired yet. There are other issues as well.

Anyway, why use an inferior, outdated format like GIF? PNG, MNG, even JPEG
is better than GIF.

KAH

Sep 18, 2003, 2:46pm

Because its more compatable and it does what you need to do. GIF is far from "outdated".
Not to mention much easier to use when writing code to support it.


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Sep 18, 2003, 3:39pm

You mean like the transparent color in a .gif file

Too bad you can't use .gif's huh?

> when makign a texture we shoudl have it so when you use a certain rgb hex
> code it will delete that when applied in aw so that it is not there, and
cut
> out, it would allow for nice textures, or pictures w/o the use of mask.

Sep 18, 2003, 5:56pm

[View Quote] OK, let's decompse why GIF sucks. Firstly, it has a limit on the max
colors being used as an old archaic 8 bit number. Maybe if they updated
it a tad bit more frequently that'd be a different story. PNG and MNG
support 256 quite well and more. Animation? That's why there's MNG.
Tell me how GIF does not suck, because it's more wide spread? Just
because monkeys throw poop does not make throwing poop a good behavioral
practice.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 18, 2003, 9:36pm

MY GOD ITS ONLY A SUGUESTION.. now are you guys are going to make me include
every single possible alternative? im too damn lazy.. lazy i tell you.

its actually funny becuase i knew that this exact thing was going to happen
so i refrained from adding a reply about the other formats just so i can
see what you guys say, lmao.


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Sep 19, 2003, 10:53am

> Tell me how GIF does not suck

I can write a GIF decoder in 50 lines of C code. This will create about 2K
of object code.

In order to decode a .jpg or a .png file requires many thousands of lines of
C code, and the object code needed will be on the order of 50 or 60 K.

If all I need to do is display a 16 color overlay with holes poked through
it
where it is meant to be transparent, GIF is the format of choice. JPG and
PNG suck.

You can't globally declare that a format sucks. It depends on what you need
it for. All of your arguments about .gif being limited to eight bits are
missing
the point. A limited number of colors is an extreme advantage if that is all
you need, and there are many applications for such images inside virtual
reality environments.

Another disadvantage of .gif (that it is not 'updated' often) you cite is
actually
a benefit. GIF decoders don't 'break' all the time precisely because the
format
does not change. If AW added this code, they would never have to fiddle with
it again.

There are many times in AW that I have really wished for .gif support. Often
all you need to do is make a two or three color texture with a hole in it.
Making a seperate mask, zipping it up and uploading it, and then adding
a create mask command to the object are a pain in the ass.

And for making simple animations quickly, .gif is also a really good format.
There are lots of great tools for making .gif animations, but very few tools
for making AW filmstrips. Making a masked AW filmstrip is a big pain
in the ass... think of the content you would have available if it were
easier
to create.

Anything AW can do to make building easier for people should be done.

Sep 19, 2003, 1:10pm

"binarybud" <leo at realPANTStourvision.com> wrote in
news:3f69e14c$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Because its more compatable and it does what you need to do. GIF is
> far from "outdated". Not to mention much easier to use when writing
> code to support it.

In this case, it's not more compat*i*ble. Sure, it does what it's designed
to do, but if you use for example PNG or MNG they'll do what they're
designed to do, which is something much more advanced and clever than what
GIF does.

GIF is outdated, just for this reason. It doesn't matter much if it's
easier to implement GIF, one shouldn't be lazy when coding. (or you'll end
up writing something worthy of the MS-logo) There's a whole bunch of
libraries that support PNG/MNG anyway, so it's really no excuse.

KAH

Sep 19, 2003, 1:23pm

Please read "codewarrior's" response to Bowen in this tread....he says it much more eloquently than I can....
Leo :)

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Sep 19, 2003, 3:09pm

end

Hi Kah.. good to debate you again.

This should be looked at purely from a point of view of making the
product better for the customers.

Dismissing all other arguments related to coding up a loader, as a paying
customer I would like .gif support including the transparent color and
animation purely because I can easily obtain tools that support that format
and it will save me a lot of hassles when I am trying to use the product.

In the same vein, support for PNG and other formats would also be
great, but no other format has the range of tools available (or already
created content) as animated .gifs

Where are the *official* filmstrip making utilities from AW? They
invented their own format, but where are the tools to go with it?

If I am to use third party tools in order to use this service I am
buying, I want a better choice of which tools those are. As a
customer, I don't really care how much extra code it would take to
add .gif support. All I care about is that if AW allowed me to use
them, it would save me a bunch of steps when using animated or
masked textures, and give me much greater choice in what tools
I use to create content.

The fact that a lazy programmer is all that's needed for .gif support
is just a bonus feature of that format ;-)

Sep 19, 2003, 4:31pm

[View Quote] According to AWI, the ability to decode GIF would've added a huge chunk
to the code. Apparenetly one of you is right, and it's going to be
them. I'm ecstatic you can write a 50 line GIF decoder in C. Really.
But you can't just decode GIF to use it, this is a 3d application you
have to do some serious calculations for distance, angles, etc, oh
yeah... for textures too.

They claimed the DLL was another meg or two, and PNG support in other
programs barely adds half that... I wonder.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 19, 2003, 4:37pm

[View Quote] Again, GIF is peachy. But if you're going to spotlight just one format,
then you better add something with much better options. If you add like
5 formats, great, that's awesome, include GIF.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 19, 2003, 4:39pm

[View Quote] So, a feature that takes up less code is the best one to add? Yeah, I
can tell you only program barbie games in VB.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 19, 2003, 4:54pm

*sigh*

im aksing for a self masking color, like xxxxxx or sumtin so that if i used
that on aw it would completely delete the area withotu a mask, good for
pictures in aw, or if i used a diff one it would partially make it
transparent

or even in aw somethign as simpel as create picture moo.jpg mask=color of
w/e
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Sep 19, 2003, 5:12pm

lol when you grow up and actually try and make some money with your "programming talent"....you'll see the light.
If you only knew how much cash I made on that "Barbie" project.....LOL and it was not written in VB smartass.


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Sep 19, 2003, 5:12pm

give it up Bowen sheeesh

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Sep 19, 2003, 5:16pm

wow..... now that I think about it....you were still sucking your thumb when I wrote that Barbie program. LOL


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Sep 19, 2003, 5:25pm

[View Quote] I think your old age has clouded your math skills. Just a _wee_ bit.

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 19, 2003, 5:26pm

[View Quote] What's That....???.... Is Yourrrrr thumb ... still
uncontrolable ??

--
--Bowen--
http://bowen.homelinux.com/sys/
Yeah, it's that good.
(Maybe an AW section in the near future?)

Sep 20, 2003, 7:02pm

Oh will u & bowen put a sock in it?

*Takes off socks & puts 1 in Bowen's mouth & another in Binary Bud's & seals
with grey tape*

Lol

~John

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