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Mar 2, 1999, 7:31pm

Hi,
Let me just say that the direct3D support for AW is pretty bad. Why dont
we use OpenGL? It renders faster, and makes smoother graphics.

pineapples10

Mar 2, 1999, 7:57pm

Too bad you can't just unplug renderware and stick something else in its'
place but it isn't that easy :) Great idea, but implementation is a good bit
away:)


[View Quote]

Mar 2, 1999, 8:00pm

This has already been debated to death in here. OpenGL isn't the standard currently, Direct3D is. More vid cards support Direct3D than OpenGL at this time.

[View Quote] > Let me just say that the direct3D support for AW is pretty bad. Why dont
> we use OpenGL? It renders faster, and makes smoother graphics.

Mar 2, 1999, 8:19pm

I hate to start an OpenGL vs. D3D advocacy thread here, but OpenGL is
*far* more of a standard than D3D is. D3D is currently implemented
only on Windows boxen, whereas OpenGL is implemented on many, many
architectures and OSes (and has been for years).

On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 14:00:46 -0800, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Eep=B2?=
[View Quote] >This has already been debated to death in here. OpenGL isn't the standard currently, Direct3D is. More vid cards support Direct3D than OpenGL at this time.
>
[View Quote]

Mar 2, 1999, 8:36pm

Who cares which ones * the standard * as long as AW renders better then it
does now...


--
"Your e-mail has been taken over by rabid monkeys wielding pickles!"
[View Quote]

>I hate to start an OpenGL vs. D3D advocacy thread here, but OpenGL is
>*far* more of a standard than D3D is. D3D is currently implemented
>only on Windows boxen, whereas OpenGL is implemented on many, many
>architectures and OSes (and has been for years).
>

Mar 2, 1999, 8:51pm

There are alot of engines out there, and if they are gonna go to the trouble
of switching to something else they sure as heck better pick something state
of the art.

[View Quote]

Mar 2, 1999, 9:23pm

OpenGL isn't the standard? Sheesh, I thought you had some insight in the =
matters. Well, not everyone is that overmicrosofted like you. Direct3D =
the standard.... don't be wincentric.

--
Dean-Christian Strik ("Fluxen") -- dean2 at bigfoot.com -- ICQ #11760568
"Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the =
microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They =
can tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping."
"The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8 m/s^2."

[View Quote]

Mar 2, 1999, 10:28pm

why not? AW doesn't run on any platform that isn't windows (or a
windows emulator), so being win-centric is probably the best
position to take! So, for once, I agree with Eep: D3D is the way
to go for windows. DirectX itself should then port to OpenGL or
whatever the particular card supports.

grover

[View Quote]

Mar 3, 1999, 5:23am

Those are software OpenGL drivers (glue32.dll, opengl32.dll, and maybe some others) like RenderWare's software drivers. Unless your card has explicit OpenGL hardware support, it'll only run OpenGL through software.

[View Quote] > Odd thing is , my card ( Mystique 200 ) is an *old* card , and openGL was not on it's list of campatabilities . Yet I d/l'd the openGL drivers and installed the Pipes screen saver , and have no trouble at all using it . Perhaps there's more hardware that supports it than is known of

Mar 3, 1999, 5:24am

Thank you, Grover.

[View Quote] > why not? AW doesn't run on any platform that isn't windows (or a windows emulator), so being win-centric is probably the best
> position to take! So, for once, I agree with Eep: D3D is the way to go for windows. DirectX itself should then port to OpenGL or
> whatever the particular card supports.
>
[View Quote]

Mar 3, 1999, 9:16pm

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What we truly need is when Roland gets the go-ahead to start the long =
process of untying AW from Renderware, that AW should no longer be tied =
to ANY particular api!. We need a standard of describing a virtual =
world system that stands the test of time and API changes.

Rjinswand

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Mar 3, 1999, 10:08pm

Maybe, if they ever get another programmer, more attention could be placed
on this task. I saw a page on their web site advertising programming
positions.


[View Quote] Rjinswand

[View Quote]

Mar 3, 1999, 10:37pm

Uh, this was what VRML was supposedly supposed to do, Rjins. However, VRML still needs a rendering engine (like RW, Direct3D, OpenGL, etc.) to render it. Oops. Not much in computers stands the test of time for very long anyway...

[View Quote] > What we truly need is when Roland gets the go-ahead to start the long process of untying AW from Renderware, that AW should no longer be tied to ANY particular api!. We need a standard of describing a virtual world system that stands the test of time and API changes.

Mar 4, 1999, 9:27pm

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VRML went about it backwards however. It started with a 3d object and =
scene description... then they said okay we need something to display it =
for individuals, okay now we need a multiuser aspect to it and the =
ability to have multiuser interaction.
AW started more or less from the middle, with the display... and that =
display choice encompassed the basics of the first issue as well.
What we need is something that starts with the multiuser shared =
database environment and then interface that underlying structure to a =
rendering API.

Rjinswand


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Mar 4, 1999, 10:23pm

Sounds like a job for the OS... Windows 3D anyone?

[View Quote] > What we need is something that starts with the multiuser shared database environment and then interface that underlying structure to a rendering API.

Mar 4, 1999, 11:39pm

thanks for the replys!! I didn't expect to get that many!

Mar 5, 1999, 1:28am

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BING!
Actually there is an OS that does just this... one of the original VPL =
team (Marc DeGroot) is behind it. MEME.

MEME is a multiuser VR Operating System (the first) that runs as a =
single process under windows 95, unix... or any potential platform. =
Right now it uses Renderware, but it's not tied to it in any way. Marc =
says it would take only a couple of months to interface MEME to another =
3d system such as OpenGL or the N64 console.
All content in MEME are programs which run under it (written in a =
derivative of Forth at the moment). Multithreading is handled =
internally within the MEME OS.
It is totally feasable within MEME to write an application such as a =
modeler which would be shared by many people in realtime.
Since it's not tied to a particular interface, it's practical to =
create display drivers that use headgear or other advanced user I/O =
devices.

Sounds exciting. Unfortunately the demos Marc has do not demonstrate =
what is possible in the slightest. :( MEME has been at its current =
state for a couple of years now (ready to go but with no vehicle).
I've considered dropping AW to work on promoting MEME for a long =
while. I have an NDA signed to develop with it... I just haven't had =
the time.

Rjinswand

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Mar 5, 1999, 5:58pm

I don't agree. OpenGL is growing. So, invest in the future. Make AW somewhat
platform-independant. Not everyone is running Windows, you know. OpenGL runs
on more 3D cards than the hardware-drivers of Renderware. I'd go for OpenGL.

Rolu

[View Quote]

Mar 5, 1999, 8:50pm

[View Quote] > I don't agree. OpenGL is growing. So, invest in the future. Make AW somewhat platform-independant.

Well, seems RenderWare 3 is already doing just that without anything from AW except to upgrade to it. RW3 has OpenGL, Direct3D, and Glide support.

> Not everyone is running Windows, you know.

However, currently AW ONLY runs on Windows, which has been my main argument for only concentrating on a native Direct3D driver.

> OpenGL runs on more 3D cards than the hardware-drivers of Renderware. I'd go for OpenGL.

Yes but Direct3D runs on far more cards than OpenGL and RW hardware (Direct3D and Voodoo) drivers combined. Direct3D is still more of the Windows standard.

Mar 6, 1999, 12:31am

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Well the point is moot now with Renderware 3.0 finally in the =
finishing stages. :) It will support OpenGl, glide, and some others. =
Not sure about d3d... their web server makes my winsock knock offline =
and even locks up my system sometimes. :/ That's with both NS3 and =
IE4.

Rjinswand


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Mar 6, 1999, 6:08am

http://technologies.csl.com/rwarch.htm has Direct3D, software, Glide, and OpenGL as output to the frame buffer.

[View Quote] > Well the point is moot now with Renderware 3.0 finally in the finishing stages. :) It will support OpenGl, glide, and some others. Not sure about d3d... their web server makes my winsock knock offline and even locks up my system sometimes. :/ That's with both NS3 and IE4.
>
[View Quote]

Mar 9, 1999, 6:09pm

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Cool thanks for the info.

Hope they get the web server problems sorted out... not to mention =
put the old 2.1 info back up! :P

Rjinswand

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