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Sep 13, 2004, 11:31am

Mr. President,

I would like to take a moment to say that you have done a good job as
the President of the great nation of Active Worlds. Lately, public relations
has improved significantly since you became President in 1997, which is a
good thing overdue. Clearly, the vision for the Active Worlds is not
achieved as of yet. However, I would like to discuss a critical issue that
may arise in the future: voice option.
Mr. President, I am a 19 years old with a deafness. I've found Active
Worlds to be an excellent program for me not only because of its ability to
allow you to build, to let you chat, et cetera, but also that the chat is
text-based and also especially for logging option for chatting. Now, I am
hearing a rumor that claims that the next version will include voice option
for the first time, which would make it practically impossible for me to be
able to communicate and at least to hear conversations going on at the
Ground Zero.
Mr. President, I am opposed to implementation of voice option, which
would create a great deal of difficulty for me to be able to socialize
around and doing certain things. I am wearing a hearing aid, which enable me
to hear sound effects and musics but it remains a difficulty for me to able
understand what other folks are saying in English, even though I knew how to
speak English and use sign language.
Mr. President, I urge you to not consider the voice option, for as you
can imagine it would make difficult for me to be able to do things normally.
It would be consider unfair for those folks whose deafness prevented them
from understanding the people very well if done in English.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely yours,
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

Sep 13, 2004, 11:40am

Well Spoken.

Are you trying to say that if others used the voice option, it would be
unfair for you to not hear conversation?

--
Ry


[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 12:01pm

Yes.

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 12:01pm

nothing personal, but that came off abit, selfish. you'd still be able to
communicate, you could type. im sure most people wont be voice chatting most
the time anyway, i know i wont, don't like it much really, look like an
idiot talking to my computer, but still, would be wrong not to put a certain
feature just because of a few people. if that were the case, what about
colorblind people or all other types of disablilites? what about the people
who can't recognise objects, or recognise faces(ok, doubt there are any of
them in aw but saw a program about it on tv!) dont see them taking off the
whole 3d feature thing, and having signs with what each object should be
(presuming they are able to recognise letters, not sure really). what about
blind people? voice chat would make aw accessable to them, kinda. well, lots
of diffrent people with diffrent problems, and can only satisfy the majority
of thier needs.

-SWE


[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 2:30pm

There are no blind folks on Active Worlds and it is especially a fact that
Active Worlds has the greatest emphasis on visual elements so blind folks
will pretty much miss alot of it so what's the point of using Active Worlds
if there's not much things to do there? Besides, there are many other
programs that does have voice chats for blind people. Why need another one
when there's other one already? I mean, don't take it the wrong way. I wish
blind people could be cured in order to see everything. I mean, picture is
worth a thousands of words, right? But anyway, Eep also said that the Active
Worlds is considered to be a "game" so I'm not sure if there is any blind
people playing games on computer, as the games usually has strongest
emphasis on graphics and other stuffs that requires you to be able to see. I
know, it isn't fair and I'm troubled by that fact but many games are that
way. However, deaf people, on other hand, can see (in most case. I'm no
blind either) and are capable of doing anything if they know English and
other stuff and then they'll be fine. But the problem is, even understanding
people speaking English or even foreign (to American anyway) language all
the time is next to impossible. Blind people, on other hand, can understand
(if they are not also deaf) English. So they have certain advantages over
each other. But this is Active Worlds, where its emphasis is on graphics,
because it's virtual reality. Virtual reality or game not, it's still
graphics-dependent. Virtual reality is not virtual reality if it lacks
graphics. As you can see, the sounds effects in Alphaworld hasn't been
updated as much as models and avatars are. In fact, some of them are
actually unchanged since early Alphaworld years. On other hand, the models
and avatars has been either added or updated much more frequently than sound
effects are. And because overwhelming majority of deaf folks are not blind,
they will be able to do a lot of things in Alphaworld or Active Worlds
whereas blind people can't do (but not impossible, though it's more
difficult) lot of things such as building and et cetera. You have to
remember that main thing that distinguishes Active Worlds from other virtual
reality programs is that it allows you to build buildings and/or towns,
hence the need to be able to see. Once again, there are many other chat
programs out there that aren't necessarily graphics-based. Also, remember
that graphics-based chat program tends to be more slower in relaying chats
than do text-based chat programs (in terms of CPU and internet connections)
so the text-based chat programs are generally more preferred by blind people
and it's also obvious because they can't see! Now, not all of blind people
are fully blind. I remember meeting a couple who are both partially blind
and they operates a vending machine business in addition to their store
business which both are on a state property in eastern Kentucky. I really
admired them for their hard work and striving to succeed (and in fact they
were, thanks to their hard work that really paid off. Who says blind, deaf,
or other people can't succeed? :)). But still, even with partial blindness,
they were often required to look closer to see what is in front of them.
Anyway, I'm lost in writing this reply so I gives up! lol

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 2:36pm

I know of at least one other AW citizen that is deaf, but I'm not aware
of their stance on the voice chat issue.

One of the things that I find lacking in AW compared to other programs
like There or Second Life is voice chat. Not everyone needs to use it or
will use it, but it would be nice to at least have that option.

Have you contacted There about voice chat? What about all of the other
3D programs that support it? Do you think they should remove the voice
chat feature because a portion of the user base is deaf? I don't think
that makes very much common sense.

If AW doesn't evolve and is able to compete with these other 3D
programs, it will go out of business and no one will be able to use it.

What would be a better option is this: the AWI team would be able to
convert everyone's voice to text for those that need this feature. There
are tons of free or cheap text-to-speech and speech-to-text converters.
I think that would be a fair compromise.

Builderz

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 4:09pm

But aren't speech-to-text and text-to-speech unreliable? Last time we tried
that, it was at middle school library in pre-1999 era using microphone and a
software but it fails to pass all tests we've done, by saying a sentence,
and it didn't converted the speech into text correctly (i.e. incorrect
spellings or words). Besides, there are over thousand of accents that make
it very difficult to do conversion. Not only that is, but also other
variations exists. Computer are currently dumb.and there's no doubt about
it. I doubt they've had much improvement although I haven't seen such
converters in play since pre-1999 era incident. But we're not as much as
advanced as we can be (especially when that Middle Ages delayed our
advancement so we're still behind on technological development. Without
Middle Ages, we would have seen entirely different, and better, technology
than we have now in the same period). I doubt we're technologically advanced
enough to ensure a converter technology that won't incorrectly translates a
spoken word into wrong word or mispelled word.

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 4:46pm

Can't you just tell them you have voice chat disabled? I know I probably
will, because I'm a sucker for chat and don't wanna hear some of the idiots
that will abuse it all the time :P *shudders at the thought of going to
AWGate with it enabled*

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Sep 13, 2004, 4:50pm

First of all, voice chat have been tested at beta long time back, and this
have nothing to do with main chat.
Idea behind is, is same as whisper, or TG if you like, 2 people can do voice
chat P2P.
So you have no reason to be worry if AW will be just voice chat, because it
will not, it will be as before, a text based chat.

--
Tengel

www.3D-Nordic.com


[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 5:18pm

Regrettably Legion this just 'one of those things', the Alpha testers and I
have spent a long time testing VoIP, making sure it is clear and
understandable and of a high quallity.

Unfortunatly (and this is such as the way of the world) it is something that
can not easily be got around, if got around at all. For example, if you were
blind, you would be able to use Active Worlds with a screen reader, but not
build.

There are certain limitations on what is possible, it would not be fair to
ask for everyone else to not use their other senses. I understand it would
be a problem however VoIP is no toy, and has major corprate and educational
aspects (the side of AWInc most people dont see).

As with everything, you can only use software up to your personal
capability, just as someone with poor eyesight could not perhaps read text
on AW (on its default size), they may very well be capable of seeing clearly
enough to use the building interface when close to the object, one part they
can use, one part they can not.

I, personally find the implimentation of VoIP essential, as those using my
software know Eclipse includes a full audio Text2Speech readout because it
is part of what clients and users want.

Take something else, C&C Red Alert 2 for example, sound not only plays an
ambient, but also informs the user of key aspects of the gameplay, nuke
launches, attacks etc. Yet some deaf persons play this game, would it be
sensable for Westwood to remove these audio cue's, limiting the over-all
game-system of the whole, to that of the most limited person. Clearly not.

Now I understand what you are saying, and I can't speak for the AW
developers, but I can speak as a developer myself for whom AW is a
specialist topic, Voice chat is essential for the progressive development of
Active Worlds and as good as it is to try and keep your software available
for everyone to use it would be the descision of a fool to not go ahead with
voice chat for the sake of those who could not use it.

- Mark R

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 6:12pm

Now that is really a relief I've been waiting for! Issues resolved! ^_^
Thanks, tengel!

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 7:08pm

Great ^_^. I thought it would end up something like Yahoo Chat... ugh at
the voice chat there.

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Sep 13, 2004, 9:13pm

To disallow voice chat simply because you have a disability is like someone
in a wheelchair demanding the world remove stairs. I think it should be a
feature if the vast majority can use it. And, anyway, I am going to have
that annoying voice chat disabled, so they can just take their sweet time
typing out what they so desperately want to tell me.

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 10:23pm

[View Quote] Of course they are, but will all due respect, would you rather have
something reasonable or nothing at all.

- Mark R

Sep 13, 2004, 10:24pm

Broadcast mode :O

http://zetech.swehli.com/activeworlds/images/voip_tabs.jpg

- Mark R

[View Quote]

Sep 13, 2004, 11:16pm

I don't really like the voice chat feature either. Things just get
confusing when there's more than one person involved and you're not
there in person to see them..

I doubt if implemented I would use it very much ..besides ..I sound more
intelligent in writing than I do in speech LOL

Ryan

Sep 13, 2004, 11:44pm

not to mentionm we don't know what eachother sounds like, and i forsee some
recodrings and playbacks, lol for example

digigurl says "I hate you" as well as "Ryan has hardass"(yeah right) and
also "I love Michael Phelps he is HOTT"
you could splice a number of words making her say things like

"I hate ryan he is a hardass, michael phelps is hott" urrr well that wasn't
a godo example but you get the point...plus imagine 0_0 "tourist n00b"
invites you to voice chat *clicks ok* tourist says "F**K you P3n!$, and
every other lewd thing you know...
[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 12:16am

I don't think you have anything to worry about hon. I have a great friend
from another universe who is completely deaf. This other universe has had
the voice option in use for years but not many people use it. Since I no
longer go to that universe I can only chat with him in yahoo these days, and
we all know that yahoo uses voice chat. He of course has no need for that
since he would never be able to hear anyone and I don't mind using text
chatting with him because I can sympathize with his dilemna. Nor does he
feel like he's missing out on something. You will find that most people will
understand. Princess Leia, who is a very respected person within the AW
community is also deaf. I'm sure she probably has no worries about her being
able to communicate with people in there. And I'm sure not everyone has the
luxury of owning a mic. Especially those people using a computer from work.
Those puters usually don't have speakers anyway. In my opinion, if someone
blatantly ignores your requests to talk using text, they aren't worth
talking with to begin with. ;-")



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Sep 14, 2004, 12:21am

Usually with voice chat, you select the individuals you want to voice chat
with. Of course there are tons of programs one can use, but I would imagine
AW can't afford the more expensive ones which are packed with options and
therefore we'd be using a cheaper version for a while which would only allow
us to select 1 person at a time to voice chat with as opposed to a
"conference call" type of thing. I highly doubt we'd be listening to dozens
of people all talking at once.


[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 12:31am

Just as an analogy kind of:

I am a lifetime cit in There (who could give up the opportunity lol). There
has voice chat but to tell you the truth, a majority of users do not use it
at all. I have it and I almost never use it... and neither do any of my
friends who have it enabled as well...\

-Z


[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 4:21am

there are even more chat places, where they DON'T have voice chat though.
what i'm saying is, can't take things off, just because of 1 or 2 people. AW
probably aren't gonna put in voice chat, but if they do, you shouldn't
really complain, just continue text chatting. As much as voice chat may be
negative for you, it could be positive for quite alot of people...

-SWE

[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 8:54am

I am the same. I rarely use yahoo voice chat even tho I've had it for over 5
years. Even most of my friends on yahoo either ignore it or forget it's
there. ;-"D


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Sep 14, 2004, 9:50am

Um, is that even real one? Whatever happened to that search tab? I don't use
it but it has existed in every version since... 3.4? *can't remember*

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 10:00am

Wow, I'm surprised to discover that one of the prominent members of the AW
Community is deaf. Sorry to go off the topic, but wasn't Princess Leia of
today the same one as one mentioned about in New Worlds Time article about
Cyborg world (Princess Leia's world, I believe), one of the first worlds in
the Active Worlds Universe? I was asking because many of the former or
long-time citizens have changed their name and/or to other citizen number
since Active Worlds for various reasons. At least, that's my observations, I
think.

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 10:54am

Thats an old build, for the corprate clients. Search tab is only shown in
universe if its actually set.

- MR

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Sep 14, 2004, 10:56am

And of course the difference from just writing the thing in text and sending
it via telegram as a quote is....? 10, 20 minutes work or so.

- Mark R

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Sep 14, 2004, 11:25am

>_< I've lost my reasoning when I first wrote the letter to President Enzo
(never mind that he ever read it). I should've realized that if you are to
have Active Worlds application enabled to allow public voice chats, you're
in trouble.

Why? Because there's no way to censor or eject you if you've said an
inappropriate word. Computer, at this point, cannot very much recognize, if
any at all, the difference between the inappropriate and appropriate words
and also especially that the speech-to-text or text-to-speech converter is
still unreliable despite several years worth of developments and
improvements, hence the inability to recognize a spoken words. Therefore,
there goes the reasoning that private voice chats is preferred to public
chats. Activeworlds Inc. could've made a huge, irreversible mistake, but
they didn't and I applaud their smart thinking regarding the present
situation that could make the public voice chat a mankind's nightmare, if
any at all. Good thinking, Mr. President!

--
Legion
Chairman of Rockford Township, Phin County, Alphaworld

[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 11:30am

emm, so when you are around diffrent people,who you've never ment, you have
no idea who's saying what? and if you're gonna say thats diffrent, because
you can tell which direction it's coming from, they could just use the whole
3d sound thing? if someones on your left, shift the sound to the left, etc.

-SWE



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Sep 14, 2004, 11:38am

ok, stop with the mr.president thing >_<
ya, they could just disable it in like, awgate. then private words could
have it enabled. and i really doubt that censorship was thier main concern
when they didn't put voice chat into previous versions of aw, i'm guessing
it was mroe about time and money. could be wrong though.

-SWE

[View Quote]

Sep 14, 2004, 11:50am

Yeah, for the most parts it will only be enabled in private worlds, you can
control the use of it with the rights list just as you can building. Also,
it says when the other person is speaking so if you do hear something
inappropriate you know who to kill.

I would imagine if and when it comes into the main AW universe there would
be like a 2nd AWGate with voice chat enabled, for those wishing to go there.

Also, me agree's with SWE, enough of the Mr. President >_<

- Mark R

[View Quote]

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