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Oct 11, 2001, 5:40pm

Perhaps if most of the people compaining about this weren't whining little
girls, then they would be taken more seriously by AW and have their ear. I
keep hearing "AW should read the newsgroups" ... but when they get here its
just this bitching waiting for them.

If people would act like adults rather than cry off bitching and sulk all
the time, life would be so much easier.

It didn't tale long, but I've had enough of this ng ... should never have
resubscribed. Easily fixed.

Grims.

"rpg helper" <noneasyet at jfk2_please_set_me_up_with_your_path_server_fo.com>
[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 6:03pm

Replies inline --

[View Quote] Apparently, it was sent at the end of the day on a Friday. What do you expect?

> Now, cut the crap on the privilege I had of you responding to my telegrams. You
> are an employee of AWcom and from the corporate office you telegramed back and
> forth to me regarding the error and the details of it. It was you who failed to
> pass that information on to Noelle and expected me to repeat all the
> information.

Flagg is not in charge of billing. From what posted, he told you who you needed to talk to in order to resolve your problem.

> I had informed you I was ending my 12 work shift. I hardly need to
> waste time repeating myself.

Yet you expect Flagg to "waste time" by doing everything for you. He told you what you needed to do.

> I notified you who are in the position of customer
> care. I DID my part! That is YOUR Failure as an AWcom Representative.

So *any* AWC employee has to immediatly drop what they're doing if they get a telegram in AW? That's not how it works. They have set up official support and billing email accounts SPECIFICALLY for problems such as yours.

> Is it that hard to see that you contribute to AW's negligence when you begin to decide what
> is privilege response from you and what is normal customer service?

As Flagg said, they don't *have* to respond to any telegrams in AW regarding service. No where are you told that telegram support is part of your citizenship.

> The result that I see is that on 9-28-01 two customers I know had their credit information
> poorly handled by AWcom. The following week more customers had been hurt by the
> same site.

Hmm... from what I've heard, people submitted orders using a credit card that couldn't handle a $200 overdraw on an Internet site. Perhaps they should be more careful the next time they use their credit card.

> All during that time you were using your opinion to ignore my original notices as well as my courtesy follow up that Thursday. I contacted you
> as well as support several times during that week. Now those failed responses
> results in customers being overdrawn now...

No. A bug in the order software and the customer repeatedly re-sending their order caused the problem.


>That represents AWcom's Answer? That hurts the customer. That is the reason this problem went on for over ten
> days. I also know of a customer who HAS phoned you and who HAS NOT been reimbursed by you.

So everyone who phones and has a problem automatically gets reimbursed? What are you talking about?

> I am not here to harm AWcom.

*cough*

> I am only trying to see that attitudes such as your remarks concerning telegram contact only help to break down the company and it's
> customer care or lack there of. There is never an excuse to ignore a serious problem, ever! Money problems on the site is a serious problem!

You were never guaranteed telegram support. Ever.

> I operate a successful business of providing internet service which includes a
> large 3D division within AW. You are very aware that we host many worlds for
> many customers from around the globe. Daily I hear from world owners as well as
> new customers inquiring about worlds. I hear their cries all too often. So when
> I take the time out of my day... time that normally goes to filling the gaps of
> AW's support... much of which I hear goes un-answered... I expect that AW would
> be interested in hearing the facts from outside their own little shell. But you
> have shown me in your own words. In your opinion it was handled satisfactory!
> In my opinion and the opinion of the many it affected... the losses caused by
> your ways are very UN-satisfactory...
>
> And your opinion that a Company should be as unconscious of customer safety as
> to recommend and endorse the sending of Credit Card data over unsecured
> sources.... well that is showing a huge amount of ignorance and neglect on the
> part of AWcom with you as their representative. I would think your merchant
> account would be closed if they heard your recommendation! They require that
> security measures be taken for credit approvals without the presence of customer
> or card! Based on your statements... the whole Net should do away with SSL and
> give up all the secure servers and browser encryption's. Flagg says it's SAFE to
> send your Credit Card via open e-mail... Hey MicroSoft, Hey Netscape... You
> wasted Millions $$$$ on secure sockets and encryption!!!! Flagg knows more than
> all the experts and releases to press that e-mail is good enough!!!!

As Flagg said: Send it over the phone if email bothers you.

> This all could have been much easier had AWcom acknowledged their e-mails and
> the fact there was a problem at the beginning. Many people would have been saved
> the troubles that your disregards caused. It appears rather than apologize for
> the error in judgments you choose to flame and make me look bad...

Uhhh... Flagg's post was professional. There was no flaming. *You* are the one doing the flaming.

> All I did was take it to the public eye to insure change would come about... I am glad to see
> from your post that certain issues are now being dealt with... I hope this
> brings on some oversight in the future so others can be safer doing business
> with AWcom. A customer based company's most valuable resource is the
> customers... try not to forget that... I am not the bad guy... just the one
> willing to step out and speak for the little people who get hurt...
>
>
[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 7:15pm

So all are aware... Insanity was blocked from this newsgroup because of his
attempts to bring this knowledge to all's attention... AW wishes to censor the
posts to only one's it it's favor. Illegal for a corporate newsgroup...
privates can do as they wish... corporate open up liabilities which are
endless...

This will be my last post simply because I a sick of how idiots here loose the
purpose of my post so easily. If you feel AW ignoring problems concerning your
credit card handling is fine, so be it. If you wish to be double billed because
of that apathy, so be it. If you wish the children who read these newsgroups
to believe Flagg and AWcom's statement that sending credit cards by e-mail is
safe, so be it. Allow yourselves to share in the wrong doing.

Just remember this. Rule #1. NEVER send your credit or personal data over
anything but a secure page. Flagg's way allows for the next web virus to take
all AWcom's e-mails filled with those credit card numbers and offer it
instantly to a terrorist or other who wishes to clog the financial systems.
There is a reason people should get the proper information from authoritative
voices! Flagg's comment is shocking and wrong. Wake up... you think the
terrorists made money off the trade center horror by accident? NO, they think
clearer than the idiots like grimble do... and they capitalize on the stupidity
surrounding statements like Flagg makes. One virus like code red using charges
from e-mails and the financial system is clogged for days. meanwhile, your
personal credit is damaged forever... Think beyond you loyalty to Flagg... the
over billings happened because he dropped the ball and expected a user to do
his job and inform the other office mate... so think about the reality...
terrorists of all types, including hackers flourish because of the apathy and
laziness of the majority. I spoke up in hopes that problems would be fixed. in
Flagg's post it sounds like some are being corrected... however he again
endorsed the use of e-mail wrongly... go figure people... Let AW know you are
approving their ways by accepting his message to all users... or stand up and
say it is a Wrongful and Damaging Policy... at least I spoke up and attempted
to help... it wasn't my account damaged because of all this...

I wish you all well... my final posts frees up more of my time for other
endeavors... good luck with the likes of those who never have a fresh statement
but find time to flame those who do...



[View Quote] > Perhaps if most of the people compaining about this weren't whining little
> girls, then they would be taken more seriously by AW and have their ear. I
> keep hearing "AW should read the newsgroups" ... but when they get here its
> just this bitching waiting for them.
>
> If people would act like adults rather than cry off bitching and sulk all
> the time, life would be so much easier.
>
> It didn't tale long, but I've had enough of this ng ... should never have
> resubscribed. Easily fixed.
>
> Grims.
>
> "rpg helper" <noneasyet at jfk2_please_set_me_up_with_your_path_server_fo.com>
[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 7:47pm

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

I wanted to correct the inaccuracies in "peace walkers" last post.

The "Insanity" account was blocked from this newsgroup do it's use in
posting what I felt was a attack on another user. I removed that post and
banned the "Insanity" account as I said I would in the thread labeled
"People value". If I had any intention of trying to censor Insanity's
original post I would have removed it from this newsgroup. I never had any
intention of doing so as I felt it was important for the community to hear
both sides and make up their own minds. In addition if I had wanted to
censor you I would have banned your "peace walker" account as well.

On another note, in case you only see the post by "peace walker" I never
said, "it's SAFE to send your Credit Card via open e-mail". What I did say
was, "I feel e-mail is safe enough for me and choose to leave it up to the
customer as to what methods they prefer and trust."

I hope this clears up any confusion. Thank you again for taking the time to
read this post.


Sincerely

Tom Fournier
Customer Service / Sales Manager
Activeworlds.com Inc.
95 Parker St.
Newburyport, MA 01950

www.activeworlds.com



[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 7:49pm

Quit your whining already. You said you brought this to the newsgroup to get the public to do something about it or some gibberish. If anyone would have reacted that way, they would have by now. Take your problem to email with AW and work it out with them. We don't need to hear any more about this.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Oct 11, 2001, 8:06pm

Hello all

I have been following the dialog of the issues that Insanity has
raised. I am a consutant for 4 ISPs and there have been numerous
E-Commerce issues I have addressed.

I fully concur that E-Mail is a wholly inadequate mechanism for credit
card transactions and that practice should be halted. It is completely
insecure and is vulnerable to snooping as well as spoofing.

I am appalled that AW would set up an online transaction where double
billing would or could occur. When setting up an E-Commerce site, you
test and retest and then test again till you are sure all is well ...
and you use SSL. These transactions must be secure !

I can not address the issues of "refunds to customers" related to
overbilling as I have no personal knowledge of that but I can say that
AW is getting very bad marks in my book for the way it treats their
customers. I have a wonderful example of "customer care".

The decision was made to buy my world. I contacted customer service
via E-Mail and asked what are the ramications of world purchase. I was
told all would be well ... no complications, the world would be
available in a minute or two. So I purchased the world only to find
that it was totally devoid of objects ! Desperate attempts to contact
AW resulted in a response some hours later that they had not saved
world contents !

Well as I have my own object path and world host ... I was totally
hosed ! Fortunately I had backed up the world with BuildBot and was
able to recover. I however was appalled at AW customer service telling
me all would be well when in fact all was lost !

So I fully concur with Insanity that there is something very wrong
there.

Best
Tacoguy

Oct 12, 2001, 12:09pm

Do Not believe Flagg's Lies to you. Flagg speaks no truth. Flagg did not delete
or ban Grim who has been attacking Insanity's posts. He did not ban Grim who has
been calling the poor girl who was over-derafted hundreds of dollars. Flagg only
banned an honest speaking man who was trying to inform people and force AW to do
the right thing! Insanity was censored! Is Flagg a Nazi Youth? Insanity will
no longer be allowed to offer you free models like the nice Lady Liberty he made
for users because Flagg banned him!. Watch out for AW! They want their evil
ways protected. If you post and they do not approve they will steal your money
and rights. I say let's all contact the ACLU. Was Insanity really banned for
being Jewish? I will never trust AW ever. Flagg in my opinion is a pig. That is
not an attack. These are questions and opinions! Serious ones at that.




[View Quote] > Hi Everyone,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to read this post.
>
> I wanted to correct the inaccuracies in "peace walkers" last post.
>
> The "Insanity" account was blocked from this newsgroup do it's use in
> posting what I felt was a attack on another user. I removed that post and
> banned the "Insanity" account as I said I would in the thread labeled
> "People value". If I had any intention of trying to censor Insanity's
> original post I would have removed it from this newsgroup. I never had any
> intention of doing so as I felt it was important for the community to hear
> both sides and make up their own minds. In addition if I had wanted to
> censor you I would have banned your "peace walker" account as well.
>
> On another note, in case you only see the post by "peace walker" I never
> said, "it's SAFE to send your Credit Card via open e-mail". What I did say
> was, "I feel e-mail is safe enough for me and choose to leave it up to the
> customer as to what methods they prefer and trust."
>
> I hope this clears up any confusion. Thank you again for taking the time to
> read this post.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Tom Fournier
> Customer Service / Sales Manager
> Activeworlds.com Inc.
> 95 Parker St.
> Newburyport, MA 01950
>
> www.activeworlds.com
>
[View Quote]

Oct 12, 2001, 12:30pm

Ok... I am not going to get into a NG battle over this so this will be my
last post in this thread. I feel it is important to respect others point of
views. I just want to point out to the community that Insanity, Peace
Walker and Yo Mamma are all the same person...

Thank you...


[View Quote]

Oct 12, 2001, 5:42pm

The ACLU is for when you are wronged by government judicial systems, not company judicial
systems.

[View Quote]


[View Quote] > Hi Everyone,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to read this post.
>
> I wanted to correct the inaccuracies in "peace walkers" last post.
>
> The "Insanity" account was blocked from this newsgroup do it's use in
> posting what I felt was a attack on another user. I removed that post and
> banned the "Insanity" account as I said I would in the thread labeled
> "People value". If I had any intention of trying to censor Insanity's
> original post I would have removed it from this newsgroup. I never had any
> intention of doing so as I felt it was important for the community to hear
> both sides and make up their own minds. In addition if I had wanted to
> censor you I would have banned your "peace walker" account as well.
>
> On another note, in case you only see the post by "peace walker" I never
> said, "it's SAFE to send your Credit Card via open e-mail". What I did say
> was, "I feel e-mail is safe enough for me and choose to leave it up to the
> customer as to what methods they prefer and trust."
>
> I hope this clears up any confusion. Thank you again for taking the time to
> read this post.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Tom Fournier
> Customer Service / Sales Manager
> Activeworlds.com Inc.
> 95 Parker St.
> Newburyport, MA 01950
>
> www.activeworlds.com
>
[View Quote]

Oct 12, 2001, 7:30pm

Flagg, as a personal message to you and a public message to the weener
brigade triumvirate over there (one of which you banned), I'm going to point
out that most of us who read these newsgroups don't subscribe to these
"conspiracy theories", mainly because there is no reason for you to have a
conspiracy. :) I've found that those who make the most noise about an issue
are usually in the very vocal minority.

Do keep up your posting here and the moderating. You are doing a good job!
--
SW Chris
Eagle Scout, Philosopher, Peacemaker, and... Kung Fu Master?
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html

[View Quote]

Oct 12, 2001, 10:48pm

My how you do rant and rave!!! We could have a bar-b-que with the flames
you like to spout!!! That's all your words are too; just flames --- the
kind with no truth in them... Flame on, oh vociferous one!!! *gets out the
marshmallows* :o)

yo momma (fictious name of course) claims that his words posted below were
not an atack... That they are no more than serious questions and opinions!!!
*holding my tummy while I roll on the floor and laugh my head off*
hahahahahaaha

yo momma, you either don't care how silly your ranting makes you sound or
are only functioning on one brain cell... I think it's the latter... I bet
that brain cell is pretty lonely... :o)

[View Quote]

Oct 14, 2001, 8:13pm

Aye how true, the vocal minority always tries something to appear to be a
majority.

[View Quote]

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