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3D World Review is in
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
3D World Review is in // Roundtable
Post by Burnart // Mar 29, 2006, 7:55pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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e-graffitit I agree with you ... a new language to describe a brilliant new tool, thats what's needed. Lets face it - its essentially based on advanced gaming display technology not a ray tracing software engine. Its a fabulous tool I can't emphasise that enough. When properly combined with the coming trueplayer utility it hopefully will be seen as something quite different from other rendering tools and applications. Its not rendering as we have previously known it and describing it using some of those rendering terms doesn't do it justice in a comparison between the palyer view with a ray tracer, like VRAy's output........... (sorry, I promise I will stuff a sock in it this time - as you can probably tell Caliagari's use of terminology has REALLY irritated me!) |
Post by tomasb // Mar 29, 2006, 8:42pm
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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Player vs photorealism... A lot of things can be precomputed, so you can really have real time global illumination with caustics etc. in player (well, for moving camera only yet). Check precomputed radiance transfer or similar techniques for this... |
Post by tscorpio // Apr 1, 2006, 5:31am
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tscorpio
Total Posts: 84
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I mostly agree with the review. Saying that it's a WIP seems fair to say IMHO.
Didn't Caligari itself say there was going to be stuff addressed in 7.1 and wasn't this before 7.0 was even released? |
Post by splinters // Apr 1, 2006, 5:41am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Review is honest but brief and hardly scrapes the surface of the new features. Perhaps a one page re-review would be in order after 7.1 and free player is out. |
Post by Paul Boland // Apr 3, 2006, 7:36am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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I've just finished reading the review. I have to say, at first, when I saw the score of 6 out of 10, I was surprised because, while I don't have TrueSpace 7, from what I've seen of it, I was expecting a high score, around 8 or 9. Having read the review, I find it had answered some questions which I never felt I got satisfactory answers to. And it has raised a big question for me.
The review has pointed out that you can't actuall render to file the actions of the Player. But from the movies we saw, the Player is where you can have the most fun and some fnatastic results. So if you can't actually use the Player for work, what is the point of it? Sorry, I don't mean to alienate TrueSpace 7 users, but given this information, I can't really see the point of the Player other then to mess around in?!?
My funds are still to low to avail of TrueSpace 7, and I've recently had a lot few disasters hit my life, but I'm going to try and avail of TrueSpace when the new character animation tools appear in 7.5, so this review, while causing some concerns, hasn't totally scared me off buying. |
Post by TomG // Apr 3, 2006, 10:59am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Render to file direct from the Player view (including animation) is in tS7.1. Quite right, a very necessary feature, especially when the realtime view is capable of producing great imagery!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Alien // Apr 3, 2006, 12:33pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Render to file direct from the Player view (including animation) is in tS7.1. Quite right, a very necessary feature, especially when the realtime view is capable of producing great imagery!
Sounds nice, only problem is that [presumably] those without a DX9.0c graphics card won't be any better off with the player's render to file than they are now with its realtime display. :( |
Post by Paul Boland // Apr 5, 2006, 3:35am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Render to file direct from the Player view (including animation) is in tS7.1. Quite right, a very necessary feature, especially when the realtime view is capable of producing great imagery!
HTH!
Tom
Great to hear. Thanks Tom. |
Post by CdeB // Apr 11, 2006, 1:27am
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CdeB
Total Posts: 160
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Well I just got my copy of 3D world with the tS7 review. So this is a bit of an afterword:( . I thought the review was fair for tS7.0 but the final score not.. My collection of 3D world's go back to issue 1 and I have read a lot of their reviews on 3D software. To give a 6 at the end of what was a much more positive overview didn't add up for me... A 6 normally would be awarded for a much worse review than the one that I have just read. I think to be consistent with the review they should have given a 7, IMHO.
Anyway this is a bit of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted...(and that at least a month ago;) )Lets hope 7.1 at least gets a positive mention in a future issue to redress the balance. |
Post by splinters // Apr 22, 2006, 6:34am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Good to see that 3D World have updated their buyers guide in issue #78 to include trueSpace 7. Unfortunately this makes it the only 6 rated program in the buyers guide and also the lowest rated. Shame really as program has been updated, and no mention this issue of the 7.1 upgrade.
Buyer guide description;
An affordable package with a new architecture to take advantage of future hardware platforms.
Verdict;
Sports a radical new look, better rendering tools, and a powerful node-based Link Editor but the Model view and the animation tools still seem outdated. |
Post by KeithC // Apr 25, 2006, 9:54am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Isn't the Buyer Guide description kind of an accurate statement of TS7's current state (even if the statement was a bit "bare-boned")?
-Keith |
Post by splinters // Apr 25, 2006, 10:34am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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A perfect summary in fact...I am just disappointed that in now has the lowest rating of that section. TS6.6 had an 8 and was one of the higher scores. As an advocate of TS I am always keen to see it promoted wherever possible. But, this IS a realistic summary...:o |
Post by KeithC // Apr 25, 2006, 11:53am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Maybe they're waiting for 7.5 to come out before putting it through another review.
-Keith |
Post by xmanflash // Apr 26, 2006, 4:36am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Maybe they're waiting for 7.5 to come out before putting it through another review.
-Keith
Interesting..
Regarding this debate about the merits of a piece of software in an unfinished state, I have possible only 1 thought to add, how much more is TS going to cost me to get a version that works properly?
I already forked out the best part of $800 to get the 6.6 upgrade to 7, with tutorials and vray and find that the tutorials are all old, the new interface bridge is unreliable and I feel like I bought a 1980's pinto when I was promised a Cobra..
Sure it has a thumping V8, but the accellerator is on the passenger side and the handbrake in the trunk!
The interface bridge deal was not explained at the time of purchase, and if there is another 2 or 300 dollars to fork out before TS gets the player interface sorted out, and fixes bugs, and does some decent beginner tutorials for TS7 etc then I think there will be a mutiny.
I like where TS is heading, but I thought it was already there when I paid for it.
So when will TS7 be living up to its true design expectations? |
Post by Steinie // Apr 26, 2006, 6:17am
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Total Posts: 3667
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The interface bridge deal was not explained at the time of purchase, and if there is another 2 or 300 dollars to fork out before TS gets the player interface sorted out, and fixes bugs, and does some decent beginner tutorials for TS7 etc then I think there will be a mutiny.
I like where TS is heading, but I thought it was already there when I paid for it.
So when will TS7 be living up to its true design expectations?
I have asked repeatedly the same questions but it always gets real quite on the other side of the fence! I don't think they even know..... |
Post by splinters // Apr 26, 2006, 6:32am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Don't quote me but I vaguely remember some mention of users getting upgrades to the program and UI when 7.5 is released but not the new character animation tools unless they pay for (or are eligible for) the 7.5 upgrade. I certainly do not think you will have to pay 2 or 300 dollars for the upgrade anyway. It was quoted as being affordable. TS7 is only $595 for the whole thing and Vray another $299 so it is unlikely that 7.5 would cost as much as you mention. |
Post by xmanflash // Apr 26, 2006, 8:32am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Don't quote me but I vaguely remember some mention of users getting upgrades to the program and UI when 7.5 is released but not the new character animation tools unless they pay for (or are eligible for) the 7.5 upgrade.
I'm more than happy with that.. assuming that 7.5 is "the version" :-) |
Post by splinters // Apr 26, 2006, 9:22am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I'm more than happy with that.. assuming that 7.5 is "the version" :-)
Only Roman or Tom could really answer that but I doubt that those who have invested in TS7 would be deprived updates to the core program itself. Think of how much extra stuff (as well as more stable code)made it into Ts7.1 for no extra charge. But I am no developer and have no idea how they might update your version to TS7.5 without including the animation tools. Maybe the same way that TS7 is Vray ready but it is an extra option?
Remember, I am speculating...this is not an official line...:o
However, if the animation tools are as great a leap as the new architecture-it would be well worth the upgrade...:) |
Post by Alien // Apr 26, 2006, 10:03am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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However, if the animation tools are as great a leap as the new architecture-it would be well worth the upgrade...:)
Agreed, as long as they don't forget/leave-out constraints. :) |
Post by GraySho // Apr 27, 2006, 8:30am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Above all I would put workflow and functionality. |
Post by roman // Apr 27, 2006, 12:32pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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Regarding this debate about the merits of a piece of software in an unfinished state, I have possible only 1 thought to add, how much more is TS going to cost me to get a version that works properly?
Everyone who bought TS7 upgrade as part of pre-release was promised character animation in 7.5 for free and we will keep that promise. There will be many other improvements in 7.5, we are going pretty fast now benefiting from our new "unfinished" platform.
Incidentaly as we are working on character animation I see that MotionBuilder is a $5,000 add on to 3D Studio and Endorphin costs $10,000 as add on to other high end 3D packages. I wonder what happened to those around $500 reasonably full featured versions of "high end" applications some users mentioned as better alternative to TS7? |
Post by noko // Apr 27, 2006, 1:09pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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:) :)
Well rest assured, many I do believe think TS7.x is a very good deal, maybe not perfect, what program is but for me I am having alot of fun to say the least. If I paid $5000 not even mentioning the $20,000 tab for a program I think my wife would hang me on the spot :o . |
Post by xmanflash // Apr 28, 2006, 5:58am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Everyone who bought TS7 upgrade as part of pre-release was promised character animation in 7.5 for free and we will keep that promise. There will be many other improvements in 7.5, we are going pretty fast now benefiting from our new "unfinished" platform.
Incidentaly as we are working on character animation I see that MotionBuilder is a $5,000 add on to 3D Studio and Endorphin costs $10,000 as add on to other high end 3D packages. I wonder what happened to those around $500 reasonably full featured versions of "high end" applications some users mentioned as better alternative to TS7?
Hi Roman, Unfortunately I bought the product (and Tutorials and Vray 1.0) as a finished piece, not a pre-release, so where do I stand with regards to an upgrade to a more uniform and complete version of TS 7?
I would be happy to pay a little more for the charactor modelling tools as that is above and beyond what I thought I would get with TS7, but would also suggest that those who bought version 7, pre or non-pre should have free access to the vision that was to be version 7.0, even if its now expected in version 7.5 or beyond.
I nearly bought the pre release version, but thought I would wait to get the full version when released, which I still dont believe I have in version 7.1, what with the whole bridge thing, and bugs.
I'm sure you are probably wondering how to make this all work out to everybodys satisfaction, and I wish you well with that..
I do like TS, and very much want it to become a top selling product with more resources, turorials, plugins - the scripting is great, the panels likewise and I do like the renderers, especially vray for what I do, so dont think this is just a whinge..
p.s. will TS 7.5 charactor animation compete with Motion builder and Endorphin? |
Post by Garion // Apr 28, 2006, 6:15am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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I have been sniffing around Project Messiah as of late http://www.projectmessiah.com/, but my Tightfisted Scottish gene is grumbling a bit...:rolleyes:
Unsure as to whether I could fit it in to my pipeline, which said another way would mean.. DOn't know if Mrs Garion would let me :D
Cheers
Garion |
Post by xmanflash // Apr 28, 2006, 6:58am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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I have been sniffing around Project Messiah as of late http://www.projectmessiah.com/, but my Tightfisted Scottish gene is grumbling a bit...:rolleyes:
Unsure as to whether I could fit it in to my pipeline, which said another way would mean.. DOn't know if Mrs Garion would let me :D
Cheers
Garion
Wow - that looks pretty astounding for the money.. |
Post by roman // Apr 28, 2006, 1:34pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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I nearly bought the pre release version, but thought I would wait to get the full version when released, which I still dont believe I have in version 7.1, what with the whole bridge thing, and bugs.
p.s. will TS 7.5 charactor animation compete with Motion builder and Endorphin?
There never was a "pre-relase" version of TS7, we just offered a better deal for people who bought TS7.0 before the shipping date, we always do that.
I can't say how good character animation will be in TS7.5 but we have a realy good platform wit link editor, visual message passing, realtime physics, procedural animation and yes even bridge. A lot of users do not realize how greatly this stuff is helping us to make TS7.5 character animation realy strong. But the proof as they say is in the pudding. |
Post by roman // Apr 28, 2006, 1:37pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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I have been sniffing around Project Messiah as of late http://www.projectmessiah.com/, but my Tightfisted Scottish gene is grumbling a bit...:rolleyes:
Garrion this forum is not for posting competitors comercial offers (did you read the rules?) Stop "sniffing" around Project Messiah sales offers (if it is good soft buy it) and start posting some TS artwork (even integrated with Messiah animation, I am a game for that) so other guys can comment. I am thinking we should add a new rule: Thou shall post at least one new image for every 50 text only posts:) |
Post by Garion // Apr 28, 2006, 2:58pm
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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Heheh, fair enough Roman, I meant no distrespect, I am waiting to see what TS75 brings to the party:rolleyes:
Cheers
Garion |
Post by geneg // Apr 28, 2006, 3:39pm
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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I am thinking we should add a new rule: Thou shall post at least one new image for every 50 text only posts:)
Hi Roman:
Woohoo! I second that motion! Thats a great idea. I love it.
Hmm, how many more posts I got to go for an image...........
Render Sompthin'
geneg |
Post by geneg // Apr 28, 2006, 4:10pm
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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Hi Roman:
I may be shooting myself in the foot here, but it was just mentioned to me by someone who shall remain nameless that you are standing at 51 posts!
Roman pics, Roman pics, Roman pics.
I'll go hide now :)
geneg |
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