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2009 to be an important year for trueSpace
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
2009 to be an important year for trueSpace // Roundtable
Post by mrbones // May 1, 2009, 7:20pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Ahha Steinie your a riot,
We should never have to wait 2 years for that kind of excitement again.
:p
Two years ago today trueSpace 7.5 was released to the paying public. I have lived with this bug for two years...
"If the library is loaded in the stack clicking on the balls in Material Editor will crash TS."
No point fixing it we've been neutered...
Happy Anniversary trueSpace! (spoken in a real high squeaky voice) |
Post by trueBlue // May 2, 2009, 5:46am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Two years ago today trueSpace 7.5 was released to the paying public. I have lived with this bug for two years...
"If the library is loaded in the stack clicking on the balls in Material Editor will crash TS."
No point fixing it we've been neutered...
Happy Anniversary trueSpace! (spoken in a real high squeaky voice)
Have you tried the Library Viewer I helped create?
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=96984&postcount=1 |
Post by frootee // May 2, 2009, 6:40am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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I use my Phantom Menace Dvd as a coaster, for example. ;) <-------- short of a neon sign , I'm not sure how else I can get across the message that I'm joking.
Whaaahh?! Oh man.. I feel weak ... I gotta go lay down... :D |
Post by Steinie // May 2, 2009, 7:49am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Have you tried the Library Viewer I helped create?
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=96984&postcount=1
I missed this one completely!
My gosh I was neutered for NOTHING?!!!:D
(spoken in a real high squeaky voice) |
Post by jamesmc // May 2, 2009, 9:03am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I missed this one completely!
My gosh I was neutered for NOTHING?!!!:D
(spoken in a real high squeaky voice)
I was wondering why the dogs ran off and towards your way. |
Post by Stem // May 3, 2009, 7:58am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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I think it will be an important year for Roman and the technology behind TS for VE, but TS itself, I think that is on a backburner or even chilling.
- Stem |
Post by transient // May 3, 2009, 3:10pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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We'll see. If it's like anything that microsoft attempt these days, VE will be in perpetual beta. Which is different from Google, where they call all of their finished software beta. Software development makes no sense to me.
Overall, I think what has happened here is that 7.5 and vray were used as a carrot to find converts for all of this virtual business. Unfortunately, what users really wanted was vray, not to be part of some new age cult. Hence the sad state of ts's current userbase.
I find the ve stuff a bit ho-hum, so needless to say this is not a good situation for me. |
Post by Stem // May 4, 2009, 11:08am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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It was the Workspace and Vray that brought me back to TS, and I did purchase a license for vray. Unfortunately Caligari did not put much effort into supporting vray with needed fixes, and as mentioned (I think also by yourself) if Vray had been less buggy/worked as advertised, then more may of made purchase. Even now we still wait for fixes for Vray.
- Stem |
Post by Burnart // May 4, 2009, 12:41pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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This was going to be the year I bought VRay for tS. Oh well......
So Caligari, whats new? |
Post by Docwolph // May 5, 2009, 12:57pm
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Docwolph
Total Posts: 20
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The more I use other programs the more I understand just how good the tureSpace really could be. The modeler is top notch, save a few problems with history and just the basic notion of "undo". Add really good renderers and improving animation tools (Really need to work on those cloth and "breakage" systems) and tS is really starting to pick up. Though by version 7, tS really should be flying already.
Basic field/"eye" Navigation is still a painfully esoteric to the program and that is the main thing that kills me. If the navigation was more in keeping with the current paradigm (alt-lmb/mmb/rmb, and real tablet support) used by almost every other program on the market now, trueSpace would find more users because they would feel like they do not have to re-learn everything just to get tS to go.
There is also the sense that Caligari wants to make it as painful as possible to use trueSpace with other programs. The lack of native and fully functional import/export of common formats (you need a plug-in to in-out OBJs, for Pete's sake). tS still does not read Tifs, my preferred texture format.
Oh, did I mention that I bought tS 7.5 (I was late getting in to get 7.0) and did get the free upgrade to 7.6, which others had to buy, only to turn around a find tS 7.6 up for free not a whole six months later? It's kind of a turn off when you put down around $550 dollars when you could have waited until the end of the year and just downloaded it free. The only cancellation is that Vray would not have been free but I could have swallowed $200 for that. Vray standalone and Blender? Sounds promising.
Unless trueSpace 8 is a whole new and better animal, I can't see myself getting it. The modeler is great, and the tools for the most part are easily accessible, but lack usefulness compared to other programs. I want to be for tS and get the next one, but only if it is really going to be easier to work and live with. At this point, I don't know... |
Post by transient // May 5, 2009, 2:13pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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To be fair on the ts becoming free business, Caligari did offer all of their training material for free as well. For most people, me included, this was a good thing and made up for the recent purchase niggle (at least for me).
What's happened since has been..............well I better not say what I really feel. Does this forum have a language filter? ;) |
Post by moogaloonie // May 6, 2009, 12:45pm
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moogaloonie
Total Posts: 64
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The more I use other programs the more I understand just how good the tureSpace really could be. The modeler is top notch, save a few problems with history and just the basic notion of "undo". Add really good renderers and improving animation tools (Really need to work on those cloth and "breakage" systems) and tS is really starting to pick up. Though by version 7, tS really should be flying already.
There is also the sense that Caligari wants to make it as painful as possible to use trueSpace with other programs. The lack of native and fully functional import/export of common formats (you need a plug-in to in-out OBJs, for Pete's sake). tS still does not read Tifs, my preferred texture format.
That's pretty much what I was saying. There are still many people making and selling Poser/Studio content, so I took a look to see how Truespace compared to Studio. I imagine many Poser/Studio users would love TrueSpace's realtime rendering and character set-up tools. I couldn't believe though that obj import was still handled through a plug-in just as it was years ago, and that there seems to be no interest, from Caligari or this community, in making TrueSpace's morphing, cloth and hair work with the brokered content Poser/Studio users are familiar with. I'm not really attached to any particular piece of Poser content, but I did spend a couple years learning how to use it and wish I could just import stuff I created for Poser into TrueSpace. Doesn't seem like much to ask, but as always, mentioning Poser causes everyone to tune out or defend the status quo.
And it's also apparent that no one shares my feelings about the importance of providing import functionality for the same formats they export. Maybe if they'd tried to add Collada import at the same time as export, the export itself would work better.
Now that it's free I suppose they no longer have to care how we feel. |
Post by Burnart // May 6, 2009, 12:56pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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At the risk of developing this into a Poser rant (or anti-Poser as the case may be) the world of 3D will be in a very sad state of affairs if it has to revolve around Poser content. Having said that I have a great deal of respect for some of Poser tools and what they have achieved in user friendly popular software. But on the other hand the morass of Poser content available is mostly awful and what users do with it and then flood the internt with images of is (to put it kindly) mostly very, very, ordinary. If handling Poser content is not core business for tS/Caligari then it can only be handled by plugin developers.
If you want to talk about full collada import/export or a more developed obj format import/export then I'm keen on these things too. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 6, 2009, 1:29pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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At the risk of developing this into a Poser rant (or anti-Poser as the case may be) the world of 3D will be in a very sad state of affairs if it has to revolve around Poser content. Having said that I have a great deal of respect for some of Poser tools and what they have achieved in user friendly popular software. But on the other hand the morass of Poser content available is mostly awful and what users do with it and then flood the internt with images of is (to put it kindly) mostly very, very, ordinary. If handling Poser content is not core business for tS/Caligari then it can only be handled by plugin developers.
If you want to talk about full collada import/export or a more developed obj format import/export then I'm keen on these things too.
QUOTE ABOVE WITH ALTERED NAME OF SOFTWARE :At the risk of developing this into a Truespace rant (or anti-Truespace as the case may be) the world of 3D will be in a very sad state of affairs if it has to revolve around Truespace content. Having said that I have a great deal of respect for some of Truespace tools and what they have achieved in user friendly popular software. But on the other hand the morass of Truespace content available is mostly awful and what users do with it and then flood the internet with images of is (to put it kindly) mostly very, very, ordinary. If handling Truespace content is not core business for Poser /Daz then it can only be handled by plugin developers.
"Doesnt sound any better does it
Both are just tools !;) |
Post by mrbones // May 6, 2009, 2:19pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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daz studio 2.3 can export to DAE format
so i took aiko3 LE, exported her as a dae file ( 14 megs )
and the character is usable by Animeeple !
-------
which means, the animations i build in Animeeple can be used immediately in Daz without the Second-Life-avatar step :)
i just thought you'd like to know :)
Check out this video
http://www.youtube.com/user/mcasual |
Post by Burnart // May 6, 2009, 2:48pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Not sure what your point is Rayman. I wasn't advocating truespace domination. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 6, 2009, 3:21pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Not sure what your point is Rayman. I wasn't advocating truespace domination.
My point is that Poser and Truespace are just programs and what the people do with it is a different pair of shoes......
I´ve seen awsome things done with Poser same as work done with any program that can be poor or good.
Note that Mr Bones is right..... files are interchangeable same as motions even with animeeple.... |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 6, 2009, 3:31pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Something to consider is Caligari's website ranking when compared with other mainstream sites:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/caligari.com+blender.org+turbosquid.com+smithmicro .com
(smithmicro = poser)
What I find interesting is the relative parity of the other sites. Compare also with 3dtotal.com and cgsociety.org -- then throw autodesk on there and see what we're really up against... even free, trueSpace doesn't generate much interest. :( |
Post by prodigy // May 6, 2009, 3:51pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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As i mentioned, release a software for free without a support plan is like give flowers to the pigs.. (Local Expression ehehhe)
Caligari has a tremendous community ready to help others.
I remember read few comments from new customers telling the community was a big good point to buy truespace..
If we can made that on people to spend 600$ imagine what we can do on people that get truespace for free!
Just we need motivation.
Ambassador program was a good point.. The TNL League was another..
Just my point of view.. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 6, 2009, 4:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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You've hit the point exactly, Prodigy. The community was why I returned to trueSpace back in 2006 and motivation is very much what is needed. Too much time spend waiting and reacting, not enough time spend doing!
If we do awesome works with trueSpace, if the community can get exited and rally around the 3rd party developers, that could make a significant difference. I think much time has passed and many have forgotten that it was in large part 3rd party plugins that made the old trueSpace great. ;)
It may well be that 2009 will be for trueSpace an important year for plugin development. :) |
Post by mrbones // May 6, 2009, 4:25pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Important not to miss what is now happening with other apps, not just what Truespace does this year. |
Post by Steinie // May 6, 2009, 4:27pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Something to consider is Caligari's website ranking when compared with other mainstream sites:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/caligari.com+blender.org+turbosquid.com+smithmicro .com
(smithmicro = poser)
What I find interesting is the relative parity of the other sites. Compare also with 3dtotal.com and cgsociety.org -- then throw autodesk on there and see what we're really up against... even free, trueSpace doesn't generate much interest. :(
Well compare Caligari with Silo or Modo sites to get a better picture. The chart seems to level out then. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 6, 2009, 4:50pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Wow. Good point Steinie. Silo3D and Nevercenter don't even rank. Luxology is doing quite a bit better than Caligari though.
I'm really suprised that Silo doesn't get more traffic but thier forum seems to be at around the same activity level as this one. Also interesting that like trueSpace their second largest demographic is India... eh who'd've guessed that?? |
Post by Burnart // May 6, 2009, 5:45pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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My point is that Poser and Truespace are just programs and what the people do with it is a different pair of shoes......
I´ve seen awsome things done with Poser same as work done with any program that can be poor or good.
Note that Mr Bones is right..... files are interchangeable same as motions even with animeeple....
Rayman, we are in agreement then - I said most of what gets done by the Poser community (content for sale/give away and resulting images) is very very ordinary. Proof is everywhere on the net. However, there is certainly room in that statement acknowledging some of it is good - its in-between the lines. I didn't say it was ALL awful. I was simply trying to deflect the notion that Poser content compatibility should be a driving factor in tS development. It's a side issue at best that would be taken care of pretty much by developing better import/export strategies with what are supposed to be generally accepted interchange formats - ie. collada and obj.
Not quite sure why you are shouting back modified versions of my statements at me/the forum. Anger? Sarcasm? Humour? I don't get it. |
Post by RichLevy // May 6, 2009, 5:53pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I'm really suprised that Silo doesn't get more traffic but thier forum seems to be at around the same activity level as this one. Also interesting that like trueSpace their second largest demographic is India... eh who'd've guessed that??
I'm not surprised, Silo is a modeling application, it has a UVE and some nice sculpting tools. After you figure your way around them there really is no reason to go to the forums to get feedback. I probably only visit their forums every couple of months to see if any new updates are their.
Rich |
Post by RAYMAN // May 6, 2009, 9:40pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Not quite sure why you are shouting back modified versions of my statements at me/the forum. Anger? Sarcasm? Humour? I don't get it.
To be exact "mirror".......
I wasnt shouting at anyone just replaced one software name by the other one
.... mainly because what you said is true for every CG soft there is out there..
and the content made reflects the people not the tools...
i just changed colors to reflect that it was not my opinion and that I only
swaped names.
So if you had the feeling I was shouting at you with the same words.
It was your words dont forget that !;)
By the way I see hundreds of well made props for Poser... Its just overused and the people
have a bad feeling about premade items.......
Which is the main fault they see but dont say .... |
Post by RAYMAN // May 6, 2009, 10:55pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Just we need motivation.
..
Truerspace needs more then that !
It is now to much a one way street.......
If you get more possibilities for import and export AND render you get more people to use it !
ie: exporters for animations to render engines you get the whole
render engine site as potential users...... see Yafaray .....(Kerky) |
Post by transient // May 7, 2009, 2:17am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Having Kerkythea support would maybe get how many users here, five? Maybe I'm exaggerating that number........
If Caligari couldn't attract people here with Vray, then the open source renderers have no chance. Even blender users don't universally support them, far from it.
That kind of thing only appeals to a niche number of existing users. Not saying it shouldn't happen, but imo it has zero impact on truespace's popularity.
I would also suggest to the diehard faithful that doing Caligari's marketing work for them is equally futile, and possibly dangerous. What are you getting back for it? Arrogance? Uncertainty?
You also have to consider that the people you rope into using this app may not thank you later on if Caligari does another of it's now trademarked rug-pulls. I can say this from experience, as I embarassed myself greatly by recommending Vray to friends.
I am truly, truly glad none of them ended up buying it. I only hope that nobody I don't personally know did buy it based on things I may have said online after the last patch, when I was "sure" that Vray was back on track (try saying that sentence after a couple of scotch's, I dare you).
Or you can simply ignore this advice, just don't complain later if it bites you on the ass...;) |
Post by RAYMAN // May 7, 2009, 3:20am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Having Kerkythea support would maybe get how many users here, five? Maybe I'm exaggerating that number........
I know your not fond of that render engine and like Vray.
Kerky same as Yafaray are decent render solutions and they get you hundreds if not more users if implemented well.
Its the quality of what you can do that counts not names...
I realy mean animation support ! |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 7, 2009, 4:31am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Transient has a point here and it's always been a difficulty with the whole 3rd party scene: Hobby users want to do their work in one app -- and as it came from the publisher. They don't want to have to install add-ons or plugins.
It's the same reason that scripts in general are unpopular.
Probably the biggest thing that can be done to overcome that is good tutorial vids and documentation. But even then it will still only be a select few that take advantage of the 3rd party software. |
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