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2009 to be an important year for trueSpace
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
2009 to be an important year for trueSpace // Roundtable
Post by Steinie // Apr 25, 2009, 1:27pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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"trueSpace team is comited to do our part. We are the same people as we were a year ago and we are working just as hard on your behalf. While economy and market conditions may change, our mission does not.
We expect 2009 to be an important year for trueSpace."
Roman
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Is this still true?:confused: |
Post by noko // Apr 25, 2009, 1:40pm
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noko
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I would say so, now hopefully it will be a very positive year in the end and next. |
Post by mrbones // Apr 25, 2009, 2:53pm
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mrbones
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Good question Stenie,
I know I am still working hard...
Cheers |
Post by v3rd3 // Apr 25, 2009, 6:01pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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Well the old stock broker adage is always true "buy on mystery, sell on history".
Still hopeful. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 28, 2009, 2:11am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Notice how Caligari has not responded? No Captain updates, twice Roman was here to just say hello. He couldn't type one sentence to say "it is still coming"
(I just typed the previous line in 5 seconds) Is he THAT busy that he cannot type a 5 second message?
Tom told us he will post more often to fill in for Roman. That is great but (sorry Tom) but you never really give us details, just the Company line. Roman usually gives us more (because he can).
Not only are we waiting on the trueSpace patch, we are also waiting on all the plugins based on the patch.
More and more people are becoming disillusioned to your methods. I didn't think we would continue getting treated like paying customers after trueSpace was thrown to the dogs like a piece of meat.
I'm amazed people still care.
I bet one day a book titled "Life After trueSpace" will be written, by thousands of Authors... |
Post by frootee // Apr 28, 2009, 2:23am
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frootee
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Just curious Steinie; which plugins are waiting on the patch? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 28, 2009, 3:02am
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Jack Edwards
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There's no change in the SDK from 7.6 to 7.61 so the plugins should be compatible. We're still using "SDK Public Beta 3" last I checked.
Infact there's only been one SDK change that "broke" previous plugins, and that was to add a call back to the plugin so that it could setup it's icons on first load. Plugin's that didn't have that callback implemented would crash.
Though I know in my case and probably others that training video production has been stalled waiting for the patch. :(
I agree though, it would be helpfull for Roman to post a small update about his and Microsoft's vision for the future of trueSpace. Though I suspect that much of that is fluid and depends on us the users and plugin developers, and whether or not we produce and the quality and quantity of what we produce. If trueSpace isn't viable even when free, I think that would have Microsoft asking some very hard questions of Caligari and what kind of value they are getting for their money. |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 28, 2009, 5:24am
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jamesmc
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Well, no news or updates for awhile. If Roman doesn't care, then neither do I.
Sorry for the cynical view, but if one has a company, information to the customer is paramount.
If you ignore them, then it will be reciprocal. |
Post by prodigy // Apr 28, 2009, 6:39am
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prodigy
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Amen James..
Also a great image for the new users... |
Post by Weevil // Apr 28, 2009, 6:57am
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Weevil
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Well I might as well chip in for once I got nothing better to do in between a render.
To be honest lads and ladies it might be time to cut the guy (and caligari in general) some slack, considering how many threads there are similar to this sort of thing, you might feel less ignored if you jump up and down less.
While there is no information given in say, that captain's Blog, maybe that's because there IS no information or anything new to hook customers on, and I really doubt that Caligari or any company would post in the captain's blog "sorry nothing new's happened of interest" considering that's a place for major updates and progress.
Of course i'm personally looking at this from a "sit back and relax" point of view, I'm perfectly happy with outdated and "unsupported" software while everyone else is not entirely happy with "supposedly supported" software, so really this "silence" is no different for me than any other time.
I honestly think there would be less of these threads if Vray was not taken off the market, may sound stupid me pointing it out but actually when you think about it, Vray was taken off because there weren't enough sales, not that Caligari's going down the tubes, and considering the Caligari/Microsoft thing, there could well now be a term that Caligari should keep development quiet. Roman said there's no change but thats because it's business, not about being "completely honest"
That said, you're happy with any new words from Roman, yet surely him popping into a few threads and commenting is enough to show he still cares? Or does for all intensive purposes, advertising what we already know count? Even when he updates the Captain's blog, and posts in forums it's not always because he's being "a nice guy", it's also about business.
So while there's no information and while I may be coming off as a little abrassive here it may just be that there is no progress because the team are just plain stuck on the update everyone's waiting on. Being on the recieving end of "because there's no progress means it's going down the tubes" a couple of times, and if Caligari's got some big release waiting in the wings, they have a chocie of get bad rep and not spoil the release, or spoil the release for good rep.
This may well be the longest message I've written ever :rolleyes:, and I suspect I'll get a bit of a grilling for saying all that, and it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, I use "you" as a general term. |
Post by marcel // Apr 28, 2009, 8:31am
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marcel
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Why another thread about the future of truespace? Because Roman was here several minutes testerday?
I prefer to know why there isn't no winner in the virtual earth contest since a few month. no interest to VE? THAT is not a good new for Microsoft...and TS. I think it is more important than to know when there will be an update for TS. Don't wait and do beautiful things now. :) |
Post by moogaloonie // Apr 28, 2009, 9:44am
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moogaloonie
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I haven't really used trueSpace seriously in five years, and that was for one single project. I did buy my first Caligari product 18 years ago (It can legally use tobacco now!) and the last one I bought was the very last one they charged for. So while I'm not a longtime user, I'm both an old and new customer.
I'd like to be able to use trueSpace for game modding and with Unity to produce original titles, but this process has a few small problems compared to other solutions. It'd be convenient if I could also use it for animating cut sequences using the DX9 renderer for quick throughput. I've thought about making Poser content also, so I want that to be easily doable in trueSpace as well.
For modding, cloth and soft bodies should be bakeable for export, otherwise they are only useful for animating. I'd like post processing effects like DOF, and anything else that makes the workspace look more realistic. Collada export that works everywhere and import for the same as well. (I'd still like to see Poser figures coming in with their morphs and parameters intact, but I can easily see that being outside of Caligari's current focus.) That's all I want in addition to the remaining tools being ported over as planned.
I also felt it was odd that Roman can pop into threads discussing the Captain's Blog while leaving the blog itself unchanged.
And why such a rigid release schedule for free software? I can see doing that when you are busy printing manuals and have boxes sitting in a shed, but I imagined we'd have started getting incremental versions by now. |
Post by splinters // Apr 28, 2009, 10:17am
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splinters
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I hear what you are saying guys but I have given up waiting for news and I am plodding on regardless making the most of what I have and what I can get. Failing that, learning new stuff elsewhere and trying other software. I do feel that when tS became free we lost any right to request updates etc. Look what happens to a lot of free stuff out there...the developers stop supporting it as it cost you nothing and makes them no money.
I am just happy I have a program I can still use to make my stuff.
Everything else is a bonus..especially as I cannot expect too much from Vray anymore. |
Post by robert // Apr 28, 2009, 1:02pm
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robert
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I'm in general consensus with what has been stated so far.
I see both sides of the coin and the roads people go down.
Look at it this way, it is much more friendly to users than Blender.
Considering it is free it's a very capable piece of software.
trueSpace isn't just a rotting carcass, it's not even dead yet.
It is incredibly capable, especially with all the free plugins available.
Even free has a price, that price is time.
tS will not simply crash and burn, not now at least. |
Post by transient // Apr 28, 2009, 3:15pm
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transient
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Blah blah snore.....wake me up when vray comes back.
Until then Workspace will be in the second-rate software bracket, and I think most of the serious users here know it. And the hobbyists, why aren't you using poser like you're supposed to? ;)
FYI Vray didn't sell well enough because of the abysmal issues both it and truespace 7.5 suffered in it's first two years, many of which unfortunately still haven't been fixed. This was the reason for the poor sales, otherwise how can you explain why people didn't flock to a product that was $500 cheaper than it's nearest rival?
I still can't understand how a $300 Vray could be anything except a mini Death Star that Caligari could aim at their rivals at their leisure. Now, with Vray standalone on the verge of coming out, that weapon is now in the hands of Blender.
The real tragedy about truespace is that Caligari still has access to enough talented people to make this a software package worth using, they just refuse to listen to them. I'm led to believe this situation isn't new.
I guess in a few years time many of us will run into each other in other forums and we can reminisce about the golden opportunies that Caligari wasted. |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 28, 2009, 6:15pm
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"And the hobbyists, why aren't you using poser like you're supposed to? "
too true....funny to me. I always wondered how someone that clicks render call themselves an artist....anyway...I'm not here. |
Post by tatts // Apr 28, 2009, 8:18pm
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tatts
Total Posts: 145
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"And the hobbyists, why aren't you using poser like you're supposed to? "
Ummm? because some of us are not closet monsters, and have no interest in making porn. :D
And Besides that, there are others (like myself) who just do not care to work with media of ANY type that is not created by themselves.
I love what kerkythea can do, And I really like the effects you can get by using the materials. But, I find myself not wanting to ever use them because I did'nt create them and applying them to my projects make me feel cheap. As it kills the fact that the final outcome is not entirely mine. (this is why I have been asking around about how to make materials.)
If I had my way, Truespace would be completely stripped of all it's media and there would be nothing but tools for you to get started with. :D but that's just me. :) I did this with my Deled editor. :)
As far as the future of TS. I am already happy with what I have, to me it is better than not having it at all, As I never did purchase it to start with.
But as far as the VRay issue, I can understand where you'se are coming from. I don't know what is wrong/broke with it, But if things are broke, than I feel this should be something that should be fixed. People paid 300 dollars for a reason. If it were something broke on VRAY's part, then they should fix it. if it is a compatibility issue and it has to deal with caligari's software, then they should fix it. After all, it was them selling it to their users even if it is a 3rd party software. I'd be awfully ticked if I had spent that amount of money on a program just to loose support for it. It is the same as if I were to walk into a Canadian tire and bought a bicycle with a faulty sprocket, Naturally as a customer I would bring at back and expect a replacement or a fix. In Vray's case, a fix.
I think Workspace has alot of potential to it, maybe not for what many of you'se need, But for game content there is. It would be even better if they added directX 10 support as well, seeing it is the newest version. |
Post by noko // Apr 28, 2009, 10:06pm
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noko
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Poser? NO! DAZ is the ticket :D. For me I create models, materials and use models if need to. Maybe I look at things more big picture, for example a movie studio will use and create art from many sources. I take pride in my own work but also have fun with high quality other work. Just like I have made a number of textures myself but I also used textures I've bought or downloaded for free. I guess each has their aspirations, if everything has to be created by yourself for an feeling of achievement then that is your call. Others may take something already created and animate it and texture like it never was before, that too I say can be worth while art. Still each there own. |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 28, 2009, 11:39pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Poser? NO! DAZ is the ticket :D. For me I create models, materials and use models if need to. Maybe I look at things more big picture, for example a movie studio will use and create art from many sources. I take pride in my own work but also have fun with high quality other work. Just like I have made a number of textures myself but I also used textures I've bought or downloaded for free. I guess each has their aspirations, if everything has to be created by yourself for an feeling of achievement then that is your call. Others may take something already created and animate it and texture like it never was before, that too I say can be worth while art. Still each there own.
You also forget the learning process... !
by looking at other peoples presets you can develop your own.
Tatts instead of asking people how to make materials you could have also downloaded the ones that are in the repository and learned how they were
made. Thats how I learned it !
I realy realy hate program bashing.
Poser is an awsome toolkit same as Daz studio that you can animate your
own characters in . Its got animation with sliders and morphs with sliders.
Its also got dynamic hair and cloth.
Its exports to Vue7 Inf or Stream and can be animated with any mocap..
The fact that people abuse the program is a problem of the people not the
program. Same as Truespace is seen as a secondary tool which it isnt.
Its got its strengths and its weaknesses you just have to know the limits....;)
Plus whats wrong with an architect that renders a few poser figures to show the scale of his real art the architecture.....? |
Post by tatts // Apr 29, 2009, 3:12am
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tatts
Total Posts: 145
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Actually don't get me wrong about poser itself, I actually really like the program and have played with version 6 for a little time. For myself I have never had any use for the program. The models have always had to high of poly to use in real time for games and such and I still have never used the bvh files for animation, or atleast havent tried them yet.
"The fact that people abuse the program is a problem of the people not the program." This is certainly true. It just seems to me most people I've ever known to use poser all have one thing one the mind with it. And it is in fact very heavily used for adult entertainment. Not that there is a real problem with it, but it is just not my cup of tea.
As far as using content that others created, I am the type that I like to share the things I make whether it is a picture or the model itself. If I were to use the materials to render out a picture to share, to most here that is fine. But if I share the actual model which is what I had planned for my Wright Flyer, I would want to use the same textures that I rendered the picture with. I know that I can extract the textures from the material zip files. But i'm sure most people who create them may get pretty anal about a person doing that. So to avoid to legal issues, I've always tried to keep to only stuff that I create. Not only that if I were to be just so lucky to have someone who like a piece of work that I have created and wants to offer money for the art or content whatever it be. I'd like to be able to take the offer without worry of again any legal issues.
"by looking at other peoples presets you can develop your own."
Usually this is what I do. I would'nt know half the stuff I do if I did'nt.
"instead of asking people how to make materials you could have also downloaded the ones that are in the repository and learned how they were
made."
Yes I probably could have just done this, At the time I asked I had no idea about materials or where to even start with them. For example, I still have no idea what to do with the two textures that you have posted to let me try out and experiment with. So instead of asking more question on it and bothering people about it. I momentarily put it on hold till I have time to go through some tutorials on the subject. The past week and a half I've been abit busy looking for a job. So I've been pretty much in and out and not had much time for any of my projects. :(
"Same as Truespace is seen as a secondary tool which it isnt."
I've always said that Truespace is well under rated. As far as I am concerned, truespace for me is just as good a 3ds max and maya. For the programming language that I use, 3ds max and maya cannot do any more for me than what truespace can already do.
"Plus whats wrong with an architect that renders a few poser figures to show the scale of his real art the architecture.....?"
Actually nothing at all, I never really looked at it in that sense. |
Post by JimB // Apr 29, 2009, 5:53am
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JimB
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Hey tatts,
Theres nothing wrong with using photo textures provided you have the license to do so for example I signed up with http://www.3d.sk/ and
http://www.environment-textures.com/ and downloaded the textures I needed or will probably ever need for that matter.
Theres good news that Environmental Textures allow you to download so many textures per day I believe if you sign up for thier free membership.
The above mentioned sources also grant a license for legit subscribers,using any photo you should avoid using them as they come that is you should customise them to your project i.e use them as a base.
It appears that Mayangs Textures are back in business http://mayang.com/textures/
they have a pretty much open license though they encourage users to personalise the textures which is fair enough.
I think you will find a lot of big name studios use textures and customise them to thier projects and thats not because thier artists cannot make textures its just they are reducing thier schedules.
Jim |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 29, 2009, 8:51am
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RAYMAN
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Tatts dont get me wrong the people at Kerky site encourage the other people to adapt the materials to other purposes. like if you have one wood material you can make your own wood materials with the presets.......
Thats what I encourage you to also do ... !
Poser is just an animation package you dont have to used any of the content
you can also pose low poly characters you made in Truespace.And also
implement them there.
please excuse my a bit harsh tone but it is a result of the forum falling
back into lots of prejudice that I dont share...;)
Peter |
Post by moogaloonie // Apr 29, 2009, 9:59am
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moogaloonie
Total Posts: 64
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Of course everyone thinks they use software X for important things and everyone else is just screwing around with it.
When I first bought a Caligari product it was because the renderer was an acceptable alternative to the time consuming raytracing every other program used at that time. I liked the immediacy of the virtual workspace also. It was on the hope that Caligari had perfected the photorealistic intuitive workspace that I shelled out $600 for the last version to have a pricetag. (I guess you can infer that I'm more interested in the workspace renderer than any high end renderer that I can't afford to license or wait on.)
Now that it is free, why not pitch it at the hobbyist market when the program has almost everything it needs under the hood to compete with the established players in that market? |
Post by Burnart // Apr 29, 2009, 12:31pm
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Burnart
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Well I hope its a big year for tS - at the beginning of the year after the announcement of the withdrawal of VRay and the resulting gloom had subsided (a little!) the users, particularly the scriptwriters pushed things along but we seem to be in a bit of a lull at the moment.
As far as poser goes - its a victim of its own success ;) mind you it would be nice to have its hair and cloth in tS. |
Post by frootee // Apr 30, 2009, 5:10am
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frootee
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Lull Burnart? I'd say, deep in thought for the tricky parts of the solutions. :) |
Post by Steinie // Apr 30, 2009, 5:19am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Two years ago today trueSpace 7.5 was released to the paying public. I have lived with this bug for two years...
"If the library is loaded in the stack clicking on the balls in Material Editor will crash TS."
No point fixing it we've been neutered...
Happy Anniversary trueSpace! (spoken in a real high squeaky voice) |
Post by transient // May 1, 2009, 5:03am
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transient
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For the people getting upset about my crack at Poser, please note the wink.
Or not. Ah, who cares.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Post by RAYMAN // May 1, 2009, 5:26am
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RAYMAN
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For the people getting upset about my crack at Poser, please note the wink.
Or not. Ah, who cares.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Poser is a realy cool program its the content stuff that drags it down !
Ive seen some cool stuff produced in 3d world with also tutorials like the werewolf transformation some years ago.....
Simply put its a good animation program with sliders and dynamic hair
and cloth... some features we would wish for Ts.
Its also a good way of importing animation into Vue 7 Inf. |
Post by transient // May 1, 2009, 6:27pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I have nothing against poser, I don't care what programs other people use, even lame ones or open source renderers ;) <------- look!!!!!!
Plenty of people do, hence the remark, which was made in jest
In any case, please calm down. Many, many people hate poser, it's not my fault - blame the plethora of disposable insta-art created with it, or god. I really don't care as I don't use the program.
I'm sure it has it's uses, many hated things do. I use my Phantom Menace Dvd as a coaster, for example. ;) <-------- short of a neon sign , I'm not sure how else I can get across the message that I'm joking. |
Post by Mr. 3d // May 1, 2009, 7:01pm
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Mr. 3d
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... I'm not sure how else I can get across the message that I'm joking.
hee-hee !:D |
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