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Jul 7, 2001, 3:06am

Goober You are frightening... It is ppl like you who undermine the
capitalist way of life... Have you ever been in a socialist state? A
communist country? You need help man!!!

The beauty and freedom of the FREE world is that you can DO YOUR OWN THING.
If you have a problem with those who, quite legitimately own AW and who
choose to, quite legitimately, ignore your whining you are free to go out
on your own, there is nothing standing in your way.

You take your freedom to much for granted.

BB Bodhi

Jul 7, 2001, 4:17am

Uhhhhhh?
[View Quote]

Jul 7, 2001, 4:27am

Okay brain fart. It's late. Allow me to extend that thought. First... What in the HELL are you talking about?

Second... If you can't see the wrong in AWCI's practices, please get off the crack and pay attention to what we're saying. They
don't have a shit's concern for their paying customers nor their paid employees.

Third... Go obtain a comprehension of AW's history. There are several websites out there, that I'm sure someone will link to for me.

Fourth... Once you see the light (or lack thereof), you can work on things like quoting and lack of extraneous punctuation.

Welcome to the truth group bodhi. If you can't take it, LEAVE.
[View Quote]

Jul 7, 2001, 6:06am

Man you just don't get it do you...

Last time I looked this was a free society - free enterprise,
private ownership, and a self-regulating laissez-faire market
still rule...

It does not matter what I (or you) think about AW's attitudes or
their behavior towards their employees or to their customers...
They have the power (thank God) and they are free in this society
to use it however they wish, period.

My point is that I am a capitalist in a capitalist country - I support
the owners of AW's right to run things as they see fit. They DO
OWN AW after all. I may not agree with their particular policies
or even their business practices (i.e. employee issues) however as I
said, I am a filthy capitalist pig so I fully support there right to make
whatever decisions they feel are in their interests. This includes the
right to make errors in judgment.

Ppl forget the AW is really only a business, I see absolutely no
reasonable reason why the owners should in anyway support the
pragmatic little community that has sprung up around their s/w. I say
let it stand alone or die like any other community.

Further, if these employees are really so disgruntled, this is a free
state -
they are perfectly at liberty to seek employment elsewhere.

"> Welcome to the truth group bodhi. If you can't take it, LEAVE."

This is typical of type of mind I hope that AW is ignoring - This is the
ONLY truth there is to huh wing? Your tyrannical know-it-all attitudes
are characteristic of a fail revolutionary ---

BB Bodhi


[View Quote]

Jul 7, 2001, 6:29am

[View Quote] So... these people are adults I presume, they can stand up for themselves.
Are you a lawyer or just a shit stirer?


>Hell, I'm willing to bet the only reason Roland and friends are
> still around is because they haven't found a better offer... yet. Either
that, or
> they, unlike their "superiors", actually care about AW's existence and
don't want to
> see it collapse in their negligent hands...

I doubt it... Ppl like to be thought of a benevolent caring benifactors
but when push comes to shove I don't know anyone who would hang
around if the bucks werent coming in... Be realistic this isn't virtual
reality
we are discussing here LOL

make
>
> I do have EXPERIENCE, as you so interestingly put it. It's called "common
sense".


Sorry comon sense doesnt count - by EXPERIENCE I mean DO the actual work
of running your own virsion of AW before you are qualified to critisize...

>You
> want a successful business? You make sure the customers are happy. (Happy
employees
> wouldn't hurt either) Happy customers means more customers. More customers
equals
> more money. More money equals more ways to make the customer happy. And
the cycle
> continues.
>
> There's a reason that they coined the phrase "The customer is always
right." It's
> because it's true.

Blah blah blah Thank God AW doesn't play by your rules!

BB Bodhi

Jul 7, 2001, 7:34am

A plus for Goober King ;)

[View Quote] --
"_
|
/\
\ /
__/ /_

Jul 7, 2001, 12:03pm

Have you ever seen any other company not even care that their main customers are making requests? For years, people have asked for things and they've never been implemented. Usually, it's not a matter of "It'd be to complex" or "We don't have enough time", it's "They won't let us". Of course they own AW, but if they don't listen to the users, how do they expect to improve it in a way that we'll like? If each time the browser got updated, there were one or two user-requested features, everyony would have a lot more confidence in AWCI.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

Jul 7, 2001, 12:06pm

So you really don't care if none of the features users request get implemented? What if, somewhere down the line, you think AW could be made better by a simple feature?

Bodhi: "Hey! I'd like X done... it'd be really cool!"
Roland: "I'd have to pass it by mgmt, but I doubt it."

*cough*

-Agent1



[View Quote]

Jul 7, 2001, 2:16pm

Guess what, Bodhi? I *am* doing my own thing. The difference between you and I is
that, whereas it would be easy for you to just pack up and go if you ever thought
there was a reason to leave, for me it's not that simple. I have invested *way* to
much in this AW community to back out now. And rather than up and leave and watch
things continue to stagnate and die, I choose to voice my concerns in the hope
(however vain that may be) that there will be change.

Unfortunately for you, I'm not a filthy capitalist pig. I'm more inclined to *help* a
sinking ship than abandon it. And since AW isn't open source, I can't exactly go and
do it myself. Therefore, I am compelled to do everything in my power (such as it is)
to make sure that AW not only stays afloat, but gets better. And the only way it can
truly get any better is if it starts listening to what it's regular users want.

And if you're truly not interested in helping this community, or contributing to it
in some fashion, then what are you doing in the *community* NG, might I ask?

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Exercising his freedom to bitch...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 7, 2001, 2:29pm

[View Quote] Coming from someone who claims to not care whether this community lives or dies, I
could ask you the same question? There's a difference between stirring the shit and
stirring people's minds to action. Somehow, I think you're doing the former.

> that, or
> don't want to
>
> I doubt it... Ppl like to be thought of a benevolent caring benifactors
> but when push comes to shove I don't know anyone who would hang
> around if the bucks werent coming in... Be realistic this isn't virtual
> reality
> we are discussing here LOL
>

Then you haven't talked to anyone in the lower echelons of the AW Staff. (Roland,
Facter, Gand, et al) You know why they're working at AWCI? It sure as hell isn't for
the money. It's because they see great potential in this software and want to make it
as good as they possibly can. Unfortunately, their efforts are undermined when the
people who actually make the decisions don't listen to their suggestions. But, like
me, rather than quit and watch this potentially great company die out, they stick
around in the hopes that one day, their concerns *will* be heard. A vain hope?
Perhaps, but it's all we have right now.

> make
> sense".
>
> Sorry comon sense doesnt count - by EXPERIENCE I mean DO the actual work
> of running your own virsion of AW before you are qualified to critisize...
>

Ok, fine. Ignore my opinion, then. But why not try talking to the AWCI employees? I'm
sure they have much more EXPERIENCE than I do, and I'm sure they can tell you exactly
what I'm telling you - something is WRONG here, and it needs to get fixed. Now.

> employees
> equals
> the cycle
> right." It's
>
> Blah blah blah Thank God AW doesn't play by your rules!

Thankfully, God has nothing to do with this. And these *aren't* my rules; these are
the rules of the free enterprise, laissez-faire market you are so quick to defend. If
you ignore the customer, the customer ignores you with their dollars. If you do that,
you don't stand a good chance of existing anymore. Isn't that the sacred oath of
capitalism? If not, then you're living in a capitalist fantasy world, I'm afraid. Out
here in the real world, customers are listened to, or companies get destroyed, plain
and simple.

--
Goober King
You'd think a capitalist would understand this basic fact...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 7, 2001, 3:34pm

[View Quote] > So you really don't care if none of the features users request get
implemented? What if, somewhere down the line, you think AW could be made
better by a simple feature?
>
> Bodhi: "Hey! I'd like X done... it'd be really cool!"
> Roland: "I'd have to pass it by mgmt, but I doubt it."
>

That is how reality works last time I looked...

I trust that the s/w is evolving well anyway and
I see that there must be thousands of ppl who
want to change it this way or that - hey I would
like "delete" button moved away from the
"duplicate" button in the "Object Properties" box,
I'm forever clicking the wrong one. However I
realize that to do more that put that idea in the
suggestions box is going to frustrate me more that
the delete button itself already does.

So you are prolly right, I don't care and that makes
me extremely happy. I also have a lot more time to
play with the s/w than those who are looking at it's
limitations.

BB Bodhi

Jul 7, 2001, 4:02pm

[View Quote] I'm not stirring shit goober I simply, dispassionately, making the point
that you cannot win. The owners hold all the keys to all the doors. I'm
also saying that whether they are right or wrong they have my support
as a business and not a community.


Either

I hear a lot of talk about the imminent collapse of AW yet I have no idea
what it
is that ppl are so afraid will collapse? Juno? AWGate, Alpha World?
My god it's time ppl started to pay for the service anyway, it is totally
sooo
cheep. $20 a year LOL - no wonder AW doesn't listen we are not exactly
stock holders...


>
> Then you haven't talked to anyone in the lower echelons of the AW Staff.
(Roland,
> Facter, Gand, et al) You know why they're working at AWCI? It sure as hell
isn't for
> the money. It's because they see great potential in this software and want
to make it
> as good as they possibly can. Unfortunately, their efforts are undermined
when the
> people who actually make the decisions don't listen to their suggestions.
But, like
> me, rather than quit and watch this potentially great company die out,
they stick
> around in the hopes that one day, their concerns *will* be heard. A vain
hope?
> Perhaps, but it's all we have right now.
>

Ohh my, why don't you bite your forefinger, throw your head back, and you
would make a convincing portrayal of a martyr... Only your cause is
virtually
not real... We could however use you as an AV in Gor...

BB Bodhi

Jul 7, 2001, 9:06pm

If this is such a lost cause, and if we're all entitled to do our own thing, then why
are you so insistent on my not "raising a ruckus"? Do I honestly think that I can
affect change? Of course not. Do I think Eep or Roland or Facter can affect chance?
Hell no. What I *do* think is that if enough people can come together and form a
cohesive force, then maybe something can be accomplished around here. The process is
a slow one, to be sure, but it begins by not letting up and not giving in to "Oh,
there's nothing you can do" or "It's hopeless" . I, for one, am going to continue to
try and roust other citizens to action until I am shown proof that our concerns are
being considered.

Call me a martyr or whatever you want; I could care less. Just keep in mind that I'm
not alone in this, and I'm in no way trying to head some sort of massive rebellion.
I'm merely giving voice to the frustrations of many in the hopes that we will be
heard as one. If you don't want to be a part of it, then you can go back to your
little Gor world and turn a blind eye to it all for all I care. Let those wishing to
see change come forth. The rest can just get out of the way.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Let loose the goobers of war! :P
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 8, 2001, 3:24am

>
> And if you're truly not interested in helping this community, or
contributing to it
> in some fashion, then what are you doing in the *community* NG, might I
ask?
>


Because -- in this TOTALLY FREE society, I CAN...

Jul 8, 2001, 3:37am

Uh-Oh! Shouldn't have said that. *calls Eep*

[View Quote]

Jul 8, 2001, 11:51am

Welcome to the cold, hard reality. I swear you were in that particularly tough to sway crowd at GZ yesterday. Anyway, in this piece
of software, users are asked to test. Asked for ideas even. Sure, we test. But do our ideas get used? I thought not. Is it because
Roland (The programmer) doesn't want to? No. It's because the boys in charge don't. I'm going to make this easy and filter you now,
you seem to have no comprehension of how a company should operate, what morals are and what true reality is. Get out of your cloud
kid. (Maybe "bodhi" is an AWCOM employee trying to break this all up?)
[View Quote]

Jul 8, 2001, 4:59pm

<sarcasm> ..and seeing as how you are the god of all business and have an exact reality of the way AWCom is run, you are of course a
great person to step forward and represent the community.. </sarcasm>

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Jul 8, 2001, 6:17pm

Wing and Goober King are good representatives of the disgruntled AW community. I haven't bothered to chime in much at all because they are saying pretty much what I would--and in nicer, more approachable ways even. However, if you, Bodhi, and any other wish to read about MY personal experiences with AW's inept management, http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/history.html.

[View Quote] > <sarcasm> ..and seeing as how you are the god of all business and have an exact reality of the way AWCom is run, you are of course a
> great person to step forward and represent the community.. </sarcasm>
>
[View Quote]

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