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Aug 17, 1998, 5:34am

Is there any plan for an ability to import objects from other object
paths ??? it would make building much more fun in AW if new objects and
textures aren't going to be added at any regular intervals.

Sep 4, 1998, 1:57pm

Um...you don't NEED a registry to build. Encroaching will be enabled and object name checking will be disabled though, but you can still build...

[View Quote] > The present model of the AW server REQUIRES a registry in public build
> worlds. In the registry is information about the "footprint" of each
> object. This is how the building inspector knows that you've tried to
> place an object that overlaps on another person's property.

Sep 4, 1998, 2:29pm

[View Quote] The present model of the AW server REQUIRES a registry in public build
worlds. In the registry is information about the "footprint" of each
object. This is how the building inspector knows that you've tried to
place an object that overlaps on another person's property.

HOWEVER there may be a simple solution. Keep the registry but allow
building with non-registered objects ONLY if they meet two criteria: #1
the non-registered object must have a footprint that does not exceed 10m
x 10m. #2 the center point of a non-registered object may not be placed
any closer that 7.1m to another person's property (or in the case where
the edge of someone else's property is non-registered objects, 14.2m to
the center of their closest non-registered object). These two checks
would become a new feature of the building inspector.

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 2:31pm

[View Quote] We do Paul, it's called the AW basic library. People complain about it
ALL the time (not "rich" enough). :^)

ScottyDM

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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 3:54pm

[View Quote] Eep²; do you really want to turn on encroaching in AW-prime???? My
suggestion is to be able to use non-registered objects in a public world
where the registry is in use.

People bitch-n-moan because of the limited list of models in various
worlds that they have to work with (AW prime in particular). Adding the
ability to pull objects in off the web (a URL-object), is not enough for
a public building world. I cannot think of a clean way to automatically
register these objects. Plus think of what would happen to AW-prime's
registry if hundreds of people started using unique objects pulled in
from their web pages and auto-registered! So if the URL-object were
added as a feature, only worlds where private building was happening
would be able to use it (and they don't really need it). The suggestion
was for a possible work around so that URL-objects could co-exist with
registered objects on a public building world.

BTW, this does nothing to solve the problem of the badly designed, buggy
object. AW-prime is a pleasure to stroll around in because there are no
"garbage" objects that poison the browser. That is, the rendering engine
gets confused about which object is in front and which is behind and
displays jaggy edges on objects. I suppose a fix for this would have to
take place in the browser itself. Perhaps a filter that rejects
"garbage" objects. This would leave some worlds with LOTS of little
black triangles, but then the world owners deserve it if they have
garbage in their object directory. Better yet, the filter could display
rejected objects as little RED triangles. Ok, visualize this: You're
building on AW-prime. you select an object, copy it, slide it over, then
replace the name in the object box with a URL pointing to your brand new
"gizmo5.rwx". You close the build box. The old object changes to a black
triangle and you see your new gizmo5 in the download box. The triangle
changes from black to red! "Dang, must have a bug. Gotta redo that one."

Another problem is protecting your URL-object from being copied by
anyone, both throughout the world and on other worlds as well. Perhaps
zip encryption based on the builder number. Wrong builder number and the
zip file does not get decrypted properly (it would have the effect of
creating our own private "z" objects). Zip encryption based on the
world's name (or some other world ID) could allow a URL-object to be
used by anyone on that world, but nowhere else. Of course zip encryption
is optional. This could be handled on the server side (another job for
the building inspector) or on the browser side (more little red
triangles).

ScottyDM

--
Please send all SPAMS, FLAMES, and CONSPIRACY THEORIES to
scottydm at cwia.com
Send all other IMPORTANT CORRESPONDENCE to scottydm at codenet.net
___
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| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 4, 1998, 4:43pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] Um, settle down, Beavis. I was just commenting on the incorrectness of yo=
ur statement about AW requiring a registry.

> People bitch-n-moan because of the limited list of models in various
> worlds that they have to work with (AW prime in particular). Adding the=

> ability to pull objects in off the web (a URL-object), is not enough fo=
r
> a public building world. I cannot think of a clean way to automatically=

> register these objects.

Simple: a text file inside the object's ZIP with the registry info.

> BTW, this does nothing to solve the problem of the badly designed, bugg=
y
> object. AW-prime is a pleasure to stroll around in because there are no=

> "garbage" objects that poison the browser. That is, the rendering engin=
e
> gets confused about which object is in front and which is behind and
> displays jaggy edges on objects. I suppose a fix for this would have to=

> take place in the browser itself.

Um, perhaps you're referring to the 16-bit z-buffering which causes overl=
apping polygons to fragment and bleed through other polygons. This isn't =
necessarily because of "badly designed, buggy" objects. See http://tnlc.c=
om/rw/terminology.html#z-buffering for more info. And you don't need to e=
xplain it to ME. I have a RW site, after all...

> Perhaps a filter that rejects
> "garbage" objects. This would leave some worlds with LOTS of little
> black triangles, but then the world owners deserve it if they have
> garbage in their object directory. Better yet, the filter could display=

> rejected objects as little RED triangles. Ok, visualize this: You're
> building on AW-prime. you select an object, copy it, slide it over, the=
n
> replace the name in the object box with a URL pointing to your brand ne=
w
> "gizmo5.rwx". You close the build box. The old object changes to a blac=
k
> triangle and you see your new gizmo5 in the download box. The triangle
> changes from black to red! "Dang, must have a bug. Gotta redo that one.=
"

Um, stop thinking so much...you're only complicating things and confusing=
yourself more. To be honest, I didn't ask for a novel about this either.=


> Another problem is protecting your URL-object from being copied by
> anyone, both throughout the world and on other worlds as well. Perhaps
> zip encryption based on the builder number. Wrong builder number and th=
e
> zip file does not get decrypted properly (it would have the effect of
> creating our own private "z" objects). Zip encryption based on the
> world's name (or some other world ID) could allow a URL-object to be
> used by anyone on that world, but nowhere else. Of course zip encryptio=
n
> is optional. This could be handled on the server side (another job for
> the building inspector) or on the browser side (more little red
> triangles).

Too much thinking again, but, yes, of course ZIP encryption would be nece=
ssary.

Sep 4, 1998, 8:12pm

[View Quote] AW-prime DOES have a registry, as do a lot of public building worlds.
BTW Butthead, is it necessary for you to open a conversation with an
insult?

>
> Simple: a text file inside the object's ZIP with the registry info.
>

I don't think so. What is to prevent someone from lying about the
registry info. An object that has a registered footprint of 0 x 0 could
be carefully placed between someone else's objects. Example,
walk001h.rwx is not registered as being 10m x 10m but 9.990m x 9.990m so
that walks from different owners can be right up against each other
without encroaching or leaving a gap. Any object registered as 0 x 0
could be used to vandalize another's property.

Other considerations: #1 Does COF really want 50,000+ objects in their
registry for AW-prime? #2 The registry would now need full URLs not just
object names. #3 How do you purge the registry for a popular world like
AW-prime, when the personal web pages that are serving the models get
shut down. It is my understanding that the registries of most worlds get
built by hand, want to maintain it by hand too (under these
circumstances)? It would be bad enough having little black triangles
littering abandoned areas without having the registry AFU as well.

>
> Um, perhaps you're referring to the 16-bit z-buffering which causes overlapping
> polygons to fragment and bleed through other polygons. This isn't necessarily
> because of "badly designed, buggy" objects. See
> http://tnlc.com/rw/terminology.html#z-buffering for more info. And you don't need
> to explain it to ME. I have a RW site, after all...
>

It has nothing to do with z-buffering. Example, where a wall and a floor
come together, if there is a problem with one of the models then
RenderWare cannot seem to figure out where one model ends and the other
begins. If you face the wall straight on, there is no problem. If you
turn slightly then the intersection between them becomes a zig-zag about
1/2m wide (not a pixel problem). Once the browser is "poisoned" it
screws up on worlds with normally clean models. The only way to fix it
is to shut down are restart the AW browser and avoid those worlds with
bad models.

Most of the problem seemed to be associated with models on America and
America affiliated worlds. Jetta has been cleaning up the problem
though. It is much less prevalent now than it was, I had to really hunt
to find this example. Try:
america 183.8N 79.9E 0.0a 70
Walk all around the gray structure built by dudes. The problem is really
bad between the arch01l and the walk029h (even though these are standard
objects). Now look at the structure built by Moff Piett. Not as obvious
on Moff's structure, walk around it. I'm not sure what causes the
problem, perhaps the tree9 is doing it. Try this experiment: set your
visibility high then walk North along the road between the roller
coaster and the reddish building. Turn and look around. If it does not
do it the first time walk back to dudes' and walk back North again. I
had to go back once to get the problem to persist and I also changed my
visibility setting. I had to take the teleports (dudes' or Moff's) back
to AW-prime a couple of times before I got it to follow me back to AW.
Is this a weird looking problem or what? Want to see another weird
artifact? Keep walking North to about 210N. I was with WildCat when he
built the bridge. He could only use American objects to build it (and
only in that spot). He originally had the lot on either side of American
Builder's road and built the bridge to connect them.

I don't expect your models are the problem, and I am not questioning
your talents as a model creator in the slightest.

--snip--
>
> Um, stop thinking so much...you're only complicating things and confusing yourself
> more. To be honest, I didn't ask for a novel about this either.
>
--snip--
>
> Too much thinking again, but, yes, of course ZIP encryption would be necessary.
>

Too bad Eep², I get paid to think, it has become a habit, I cannot help
myself -- and I rarely get confused. I was not confused when I wrote the
previous message, and I'm not confused now. Perhaps you prefer
incomplete or vague ideas?

BTW has anyone ever mentioned to you that your are intelligent,
talented, and have the social skills of a power tool?

ScottyDM

PS: I've bookmarked your pages on rwx object design months ago.

--
Please send all SPAMS, FLAMES, and CONSPIRACY THEORIES to
scottydm at cwia.com
Send all other IMPORTANT CORRESPONDENCE to scottydm at codenet.net
___
/////\\ Digitally Enhanced Portrait of:
{|-0-0-|} Scott D. Miller,
| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 5, 1998, 2:47am

No, there's just a million garbage signs and pictures.

Paul

[View Quote]

Sep 5, 1998, 2:54am

No, the AW lib is not a Common pool of objects. It is what you named it, the
AW library.
A Common pool of objects would allow ALL objects in ALL COF owned worlds
(and other worlds that wanted to contributed) to be accessed in ALL COF
worlds (and in other worlds if the owners so desired). THAT's a Common
pool of objects.

Paul

[View Quote]

Sep 5, 1998, 2:59am

[View Quote] [View Quote] I was referring to Active Worlds, not AlphaWorld. When you're inconsisten=
t with acronyms, as you were when meaning AlphaWorld but you used "AW", c=
onfusion will occur. Tip: AW stands for Active Worlds, not AlphaWorld. An=
d "AW Prime" has to be the lamest name I've ever heard. There is only one=
Prime: Optimus Prime. If you HAVE to abbreviate "AlphaWorld", try "Alpha=
".

>
> I don't think so. What is to prevent someone from lying about the
> registry info. An object that has a registered footprint of 0 x 0 could=

> be carefully placed between someone else's objects. Example,
> walk001h.rwx is not registered as being 10m x 10m but 9.990m x 9.990m s=
o
> that walks from different owners can be right up against each other
> without encroaching or leaving a gap. Any object registered as 0 x 0
> could be used to vandalize another's property.

Then have AW check the dimensions. Or have someone at COF (yea right) val=
idate all new objects people want to use before. I don't care. Remote obj=
ect usage isn't going to happen anytime soon anyway.

verlapping
essarily
u don't need
>
> It has nothing to do with z-buffering. Example, where a wall and a floo=
r
> come together, if there is a problem with one of the models then
> RenderWare cannot seem to figure out where one model ends and the other=

> begins. If you face the wall straight on, there is no problem. If you
> turn slightly then the intersection between them becomes a zig-zag abou=
t
> 1/2m wide (not a pixel problem). Once the browser is "poisoned" it
> screws up on worlds with normally clean models. The only way to fix it
> is to shut down are restart the AW browser and avoid those worlds with
> bad models.

Um...that's z-buffering. Go read the definition at Webopedia. Z-buffering=
is the process of calculating which polygons are in front of other polyg=
ons.

sing yourself
necessary.
>
> Too bad Eep=B2, I get paid to think, it has become a habit, I cannot he=
lp
> myself -- and I rarely get confused. I was not confused when I wrote th=
e
> previous message, and I'm not confused now. Perhaps you prefer
> incomplete or vague ideas?

I don't prefer babbling. If you don't know COF by now, you obviously have=
n't realized you're wasting your energy continuing to babble about things=
that won't change ANYTIME soon. COF has their own agenda and this newsgr=
oup is little more than a cushion to make us feel better and actually thi=
nk COF gives a damn about our suggestions...

> BTW has anyone ever mentioned to you that your are intelligent,
> talented, and have the social skills of a power tool?

Yep. And if I want your social commentary, I'll beat it out of you next t=
ime, dig?

Sep 5, 1998, 3:47am

I had an idea when I was brainstorming with a friend in a chat the other
day and came up with some interesting ideas. One of them was a second,
world owner controlled (restricted to his access), options box which would
be for object paths and their properties.
The world owner could list who has permission to use which object paths.

It could look something like this:

Object Path 1: http://www.builders1.com/objects
Builder Access: #######, #######, #####
Registry: Y
Password: ********

Object Path 2: http://www.builders2.com/objects
Builder Access: ######, ########, #####, #######, ###########,
#########, #########
Registry: N
Password: *******

etc, etc

There could be more lists, as many as Roland would be willing to put in or
it could be world owner configurable to display as many as x number of
lists or as little as 1 list.

in the build box, the builder could choose which object path he wishes to
use (as long as his or her number is in the appropriate path options box)
by putting a check in the corresponding check box.

One of the major concens is that the object names would conflict if they
were the same. The solution to this is that since Roland has begun to
implement a security caching system where the file is not actually saved to
the hard drive but actually saved into a file as code. He could program
the caching system to encode a distinguishing digit or letter to keep
similarly named files from conflicting with one another.

Any suggestions for improvemnt on this system would be greatly appreciated.
Please, be helpful and not destructive.
Remember, this is only a idea and all the consequential problems would have
to be worked out before it could be implemented.

Thanks, Dean



Scott D. Miller <scottydm at cwia.com> wrote in article
<35F065DC.8BF96642 at cwia.com>...
[View Quote]

Sep 5, 1998, 3:59am

"There is only one Prime: Optimus Prime."

Hey, you forgot about the "Prime Directive"

Sep 5, 1998, 4:41am

No, that's incorrect syntax. "AW Prime" and "Optimus Prime" are consistent; "Prime Directive" is different. But, hey, at least you got the word "Prime" in there...

[View Quote] > "There is only one Prime: Optimus Prime."
>
> Hey, you forgot about the "Prime Directive"

Sep 5, 1998, 9:11pm

Or how about aw (like in the world list) instead of AW (Active Worlds).
That's what I try to do.

Paul


[View Quote] [View Quote] I was referring to Active Worlds, not AlphaWorld. When you're inconsistent
with acronyms, as you were when meaning AlphaWorld but you used "AW",
confusion will occur. Tip: AW stands for Active Worlds, not AlphaWorld. And
"AW Prime" has to be the lamest name I've ever heard. There is only one
Prime: Optimus Prime. If you HAVE to abbreviate "AlphaWorld", try "Alpha".

>
> I don't think so. What is to prevent someone from lying about the
> registry info. An object that has a registered footprint of 0 x 0 could
> be carefully placed between someone else's objects. Example,
> walk001h.rwx is not registered as being 10m x 10m but 9.990m x 9.990m so
> that walks from different owners can be right up against each other
> without encroaching or leaving a gap. Any object registered as 0 x 0
> could be used to vandalize another's property.

Then have AW check the dimensions. Or have someone at COF (yea right)
validate all new objects people want to use before. I don't care. Remote
object usage isn't going to happen anytime soon anyway.

overlapping
necessarily
don't need
>
> It has nothing to do with z-buffering. Example, where a wall and a floor
> come together, if there is a problem with one of the models then
> RenderWare cannot seem to figure out where one model ends and the other
> begins. If you face the wall straight on, there is no problem. If you
> turn slightly then the intersection between them becomes a zig-zag about
> 1/2m wide (not a pixel problem). Once the browser is "poisoned" it
> screws up on worlds with normally clean models. The only way to fix it
> is to shut down are restart the AW browser and avoid those worlds with
> bad models.

Um...that's z-buffering. Go read the definition at Webopedia. Z-buffering is
the process of calculating which polygons are in front of other polygons.

confusing yourself
necessary.
>
> Too bad Eep², I get paid to think, it has become a habit, I cannot help
> myself -- and I rarely get confused. I was not confused when I wrote the
> previous message, and I'm not confused now. Perhaps you prefer
> incomplete or vague ideas?

I don't prefer babbling. If you don't know COF by now, you obviously haven't
realized you're wasting your energy continuing to babble about things that
won't change ANYTIME soon. COF has their own agenda and this newsgroup is
little more than a cushion to make us feel better and actually think COF
gives a damn about our suggestions...

> BTW has anyone ever mentioned to you that your are intelligent,
> talented, and have the social skills of a power tool?

Yep. And if I want your social commentary, I'll beat it out of you next
time, dig?

Sep 6, 1998, 12:05am

[View Quote] So then, I guess we should just blow it off because NONE of these wishes
will EVER come true. I don't buy that one either Eep². I is quite one
thing to say, "I want......" without ever offering a clue as to how that
wish may be accomplished. Constructive ideas may be implemented if they
are reasonable (maybe).

The original post asked if there was a way to import objects from other
object paths. We can already import pictures and sounds, so this seems
like a reasonable request (although textures too would be nice, and
should be WAY simpler than rwx).

I see three problems to be solved in using rwx objects from locations
other than the world's object directory. I am assuming a PUBLIC building
world not a private one.
#1 Preventing encroachment between builders.
#2 Doing something intelligent with bad rwx objects (crashing the
browser is not acceptable).
#3 Protecting those artists who wish to show off their work with out
having it duplicated all over the net.

If we can offer workable solutions to these problems, PERHAPS COF will
include the feature at some future time. How about it people, can we
restart this discussion?

ScottyDM

--
Please send all SPAMS, FLAMES, and CONSPIRACY THEORIES to
scottydm at cwia.com
Send all other IMPORTANT CORRESPONDENCE to scottydm at codenet.net
___
/////\\ Digitally Enhanced Portrait of:
{|-0-0-|} Scott D. Miller,
| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 6, 1998, 12:07am

The problem with these discussions is that Roland never joins in. HE'S th=
e guy who will inevitably implement this stuff (if at all), and after tal=
king with him off-and-on for over a year now, I can guarantee you this wo=
n't happen anytime soon. Plus he's already posted his agenda for AW for l=
ike the next YEAR, and adding remote object capabilities ain't in the lis=
t. Although I'm sure it's on THE List=99.

[View Quote] [View Quote] > thing to say, "I want......" without ever offering a clue as to how tha=
t
> wish may be accomplished. Constructive ideas may be implemented if they=

> are reasonable (maybe).
>
> If we can offer workable solutions to these problems, PERHAPS COF will
> include the feature at some future time. How about it people, can we
> restart this discussion?

Sep 6, 1998, 12:10am

Um, that's still z-buffering. Try the 32-bit z-buffer RW DLL and I doubt =
you'll still see the bleeding. I can't the latest build (2.1.15) ones to =
work so try 2.1.13. Get 'em off Criterion's site. They're in a big 9MB fi=
le.

[View Quote] [View Quote] > the objects that were some how causing the problem -- but once the
> browser has been "poisoned" (by what ever is causing it), then all
> objects in all worlds are affected until the browser is restarted. This=

> makes building almost impossible because you cannot see where things
> really are.
>
> It is possible that not everyone is affected. I am running the Active
> Worlds browser on an older NT machine (workstation 4.0, SP-3) with a S3=

> based 2D accelerated video card. Eep=B2, did you go look where I
> suggested? Can you see what I see?

Sep 6, 1998, 12:13am

[View Quote] Ok, I concede the point Eep², it IS a z-buffering problem. BUT it is a
problem that is orders of magnitude greater that the typical z-buffering
limitation due to having only a 16 bit value for each pixel (or where
ever the typical z-buffering problem comes from). I'm talking about a
palm tree 5m away from a building (20 to 30m from the viewer) and having
the strips of the building's wall overlap the palm tree's trunk as the
viewer walks past. This in not the NORMAL z-buffering artifact (almost
as if the z-buffer value is only 4 bits and not 16), this is why I
consider it to be a problem or a bug and not simply an artifact.

It would still suck, but be acceptable, if the problem only occurred on
the objects that were some how causing the problem -- but once the
browser has been "poisoned" (by what ever is causing it), then all
objects in all worlds are affected until the browser is restarted. This
makes building almost impossible because you cannot see where things
really are.

It is possible that not everyone is affected. I am running the Active
Worlds browser on an older NT machine (workstation 4.0, SP-3) with a S3
based 2D accelerated video card. Eep², did you go look where I
suggested? Can you see what I see?

I have found another world that has the problem really bad. I had an
experience that seems to suggest that it may be caused by the texture
map and not the underlying rwx object. The world has tons of unique and
beautiful objects by a really talented individual, but I guess one
slipped by him some how...

--
Please send all SPAMS, FLAMES, and CONSPIRACY THEORIES to
scottydm at cwia.com
Send all other IMPORTANT CORRESPONDENCE to scottydm at codenet.net
___
/////\\ Digitally Enhanced Portrait of:
{|-0-0-|} Scott D. Miller,
| % | Silicon Mercenary
\===/ Freelance Chip Designer

always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Sep 6, 1998, 6:51pm

I disagree Eep. I don't think Roland is the one who needs to be involved in
the initial discussions, but ENZO or JP. I told Roland I had some Objects I
was willing to donate and he told me I should talk to ENZO. So, I think
it's ENZO we should be making suggestions to since ENZO and JP (I believe)
are the ones to decide what will and will not be done. Of course, you can
make the same comment that ENZO and JP never join in the discussions either.

Paul

[View Quote]
snip

Sep 6, 1998, 6:59pm

From what little I have read Zbuffering should only occur when multiple
objects overlap each other at common points of 3D space.

Paul

[View Quote]

Sep 7, 1998, 12:43am

Well, adding objects to AlphaWorld is a tad different than programming fe=
atures into the AW browser. But I'm sure new "features" must be run by th=
e clueless--er, Enzo and JP--before implementation. But seeing as how Enz=
o and JP are probably not exactly at the forefront of what this technolog=
y can do, stagnation arises.

[View Quote] > I disagree Eep. I don't think Roland is the one who needs to be involv=
ed in
> the initial discussions, but ENZO or JP. I told Roland I had some Obje=
cts I
> was willing to donate and he told me I should talk to ENZO. So, I thi=
nk
> it's ENZO we should be making suggestions to since ENZO and JP (I belie=
ve)
> are the ones to decide what will and will not be done. Of course, you =
can
> make the same comment that ENZO and JP never join in the discussions ei=
ther.
>
[View Quote] > happen anytime soon. Plus he's already posted his agenda for AW for lik=
e the
> next YEAR, and adding remote object capabilities ain't in the list. Alt=
hough
> I'm sure it's on THE List=99.

Sep 7, 1998, 12:45am

http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/Z/Z_buffering.html

[View Quote] > From what little I have read Zbuffering should only occur when multiple=

> objects overlap each other at common points of 3D space.
>
[View Quote]

Sep 7, 1998, 12:48am

So, tell me Eep²...which do you change more often...your ISP or your underwear? :)

[View Quote] > http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/Z/Z_buffering.html
>
[View Quote]

Sep 7, 1998, 4:35am

What the fuck are you babbling about now, snatch?

[View Quote] > So, tell me Eep=B2...which do you change more often...your ISP or your =
underwear? :)
>
[View Quote]

Sep 7, 1998, 11:56am

hey! whats wrong with changing your isp? I've changed mine 4 times in the past 6
months... my feeling is, if they don't offer me the quality of connection i want, there
are plenty of others out there that will...

grover

[View Quote] > So, tell me Eep²...which do you change more often...your ISP or your underwear? :)
>
[View Quote]

Sep 7, 1998, 12:57pm

Exactly. Plus I try to find the free month deals. I mean it's bad enough =
I don't get my full modem throughput (33.6K). And I don't get sustained 2=
8.8K throughput either. But I must say Sprint (before they merged with Ea=
rthlink) was the best ISP so far out of AOL, a local startup, Pac Bell, a=
nd Netcom, that I've tried.

[View Quote] > hey! whats wrong with changing your isp? I've changed mine 4 times in =
the past 6
> months... my feeling is, if they don't offer me the quality of connecti=
on i want, there
> are plenty of others out there that will...
>
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Sep 7, 1998, 12:58pm

I've had the same ISP for for a year or so , now .
While my connection isn't always so great , it's incredibly easy
to get help with any trouble I may have , 24/7 .....Period
I've regulary get non-Net related computer help from them ..
While I do get frustrated with the occassional bad connection
I just keep in mind that they have great CSR and 5+ other local connect
numbers for me to try..

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