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Jan 5, 1999, 11:10am

I was wondering if the object number is unique for any object in a
given world. If so, I would see the use of the mentioned attributes as
a method to speed up recovery of the object in the case of a search
for the object in the server-database (object_x, object_z) or for
maintenance of the sequence array (cell_x, cell_z).

Am I correct in assuming the uniqueness of the object number for ID
purposes?

XelaG.

On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 13:06:58 -0800, Canopus <aek2 at ix.netcom.com>
[View Quote] >The documents state that an object is uniquely identified by its Object
>Number, Object X, and Object Z attributes. But during an
>EVENT_OBJECT_DELETE, the only available attributes are Object Session,
>Object Number, Cell X, Cell Z, and Cell Sequence. Will Object Number,
>Cell X, and Cell Z also be sufficient to uniquely identify an object?

Jan 6, 1999, 6:31am

I have a few questions about building objects.

1. I've installed AW_CALLBACK_OBJECT_RESULT, the callback for the
methods aw_object_add, aw_object_change and aw_object_delete, but I'm
not sure which attributes apply. The documentation mentions somewhere
only aw_int(AW_OBJECT_NUMBER).

2. In aw_object_change, aw_int_set(AW_OBJECT_OWNER, Owner) should be
specified acording to the docs, but that's not the case in the other 2
methods. Is that correct?

3. Does one have to call aw_instance_set(Instance) before setting
attributes in these 3 methods?

4. What is the function of AW_OBJECT_SESSION? Is this attribute also
used here, or in the callback?

5. I assume that aw_instance applies everywhere in querying and
building events and callbacks: am I correct?

XelaG.

Jan 6, 1999, 9:22pm

On Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:49:00 -0800, Canopus <aek2 at ix.netcom.com>
[View Quote] >A visible bot can also query a zone that is far away from the zone its avatar
>is in. Try doing Sample 2 with a visible bot avatar located far from its
>midispk. In effect, the API has two independent systems, one for avatars/chat,
>and one for property.

Three in my experience: one for avatars, one for chat, one for
property. The bot perceives chat farther than avatars, says my Delph
at least....

XelaG.

Jan 7, 1999, 2:05am

Mine's south american, telepathic.... LOL.

Try it out. I can see his reaction through the program's chatbox and
talk to him thought the program and the awb and, unless he had lost
his lists somewhere, the list dump didn't show me any more, I had been
'goodbyed', he could not perform 'join' or follow commands, but he did
execute a teleport when i told him to do so through the aw brouwser,
and was answering my questions on his screen, questions I was putting
to him through the browser, although I couldnt hear his answer through
it, only through the prog.... Maybe Roland has an explanation...

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:18:24 +0100, "Walter Knupe" <wak at faber.ping.de>
[View Quote] >well, according to daniel, the distance matches those from avatars
>exactly :)

Jan 7, 1999, 5:26pm

Maybe the safest way is to combine building activities and query,
which provides much more information.

XelaG.

On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 09:55:50 -0800, Canopus <aek2 at ix.netcom.com>
[View Quote] >It's hard to see how to match up multiple building requests using only object
>number. Suppose you have done two object_adds, two object_changes, and one
>object_delete. The object_adds don't already have an object number, and the
>object_changes have an old object number, but the server will give them a new
>object number after the change is successful. (For object_delete, the old object
>number could be returned and recognized.) When using OBJECT_RESULT, should you
>use aw_int_set (AW_OBJECT_NUMBER, aw_random) to suggest an object number to the
>server? (is it an offer the server cannot refuse)?
>
[View Quote]

Jan 8, 1999, 2:50am

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:44:46 -0800, "Roland Vilett" <roland at lmi.net>
[View Quote] >Did I forget to document this as well? Damn.
>
>The object number is not created on the server, it is created by the SDK for
>you and stored in the attribute AW_OBJECT_NUMBER. Immediately after calling
>aw_object_add() or aw_object_change() (even in the asynchronous case)
>AW_OBJECT_NUMBER holds the newly assigned object number. You can remember
>its value at that point to match up the later results with the requests.
>
>-Roland

Does this mean that the object number itself is not sent to the server
at all and stored there? If this were so, the life-span of the object
number would be determined by the the programme session, and the
object number would be of no use as an ID number accross sessions.
Could you clarify this as well, Roland? Thanks.

XelaG.

Jan 8, 1999, 10:52am

I think I can answer this one myself: in AW_EVENT_CELL_OBJECT the
AW_OBJECT_NUMBER is received from the server (hopefully its not
re-invented by the sdk !), therefore....

XelaG.


On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:50:12 GMT, decastro at cable.a2000.nl (XelaG)
[View Quote] >On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:44:46 -0800, "Roland Vilett" <roland at lmi.net>
[View Quote]

Jan 7, 1999, 8:21pm

With the help and suggestions of Roland and Walter in previous
postings, I've been experimenting with WFS, using the technique of
unplugging the modem, equivalent, I supposed, to a connection failure
of my provider.

AW_WORLD_DISCONNECT does help if you have an instance logged into a
world. You get the (new) reason 471 RC_CONNECTION_LOST.

It takes about a minute before you get this message. In my experience,
after getting this message, aw_wait blocks. The program responds once
every half minute approximately. aw_wait also does not return an error
code.

If the instance is only logged into the universe and not into a world
when disconnection occurs, you don't get any message at all: aw_wait
blocks as previously, and you can, in the brief moments that the
program does respond, log into any imaginary world you want, aw_enter
returns 0 SUCCESS. You'll get then the world attributes of the world
you were previously visiting.

I haven't yet experimented with disconnection caused by the world or
uniserver. I suppose aw_wait will block only if you attempt to stay in
a world that fails to connect, or the uniserver fails.

I reason that since aw_wait serves all instances in a multi-instance
case, a failure of aw_wait will affect every instance, even those
connected. Haven't tested this.

Something to work on when the 2.1 rush is over?

Any suggestions of enlightments welcome. XelaG.

Jan 8, 1999, 3:06pm

Roland,

According to my calculations, the timestamp on objects is the number
of seconds since January 1st, 1970, expressed in GMT, and the browsers
convert it to local time. Are these observations correct?

Why not all see the same timestamp, e.g. in VRT? Just a suggestion for
2.2 ... LOL

XelaG.

Jan 18, 1999, 3:23pm

Roland:

I would like to know which are the possible values for these
attributes:

AW_WORLD_BACKDROP_RED/GREEN/BLUE

AW_WORLD_CELL_LIMIT

AW_WORLD_RATING

AW_WORLD_OBJECT_REFRESH

Some of these, like CELL_LIMIT and RATING, have textual values as well
as numerical. Could you say which ones? I'm not a caretaker, so I
can't see this information in the awb. Thanks.

Jan 18, 1999, 4:55pm

Thanks Ima and Dthknight for your answer, I wonder what the large
number is, Ima :o) XelaG.

Feb 1, 1999, 1:50am

Roland,

aw_session seems to switch between two modes: in the 'normal' mode, it
returns the session code. In the 'error' mode, it returns the error
code: for instance, RC_NO_CONNECTION seems to be a standard aw_session
return code when a 'non-world-caused-wfs' interrupts the session.
These two systems overlap:

my session number was, a few moments ago, according to the bot, within
the range of the published error numbers, a very low number, but did
not coincide with a published error code. This put the automatic
'error dectect' in my bot on the alert, so i could not get the bot to
respond properly. I know it was no real error code, because the bot
was visible in my aw browser, and I could check he had received an
aw_avatar_add event for my humble avatar.

could you specify if aw_session is using a double system and, if so,
which (range of) rc numbers for aw_session are session numbers and
which are error codes? there must be some way, other than guessing, to
determine the validity and usability of the return code of this
function.

XelaG

Feb 5, 1999, 1:53pm

A most instructive page, thanks Edward.

XelaG.

http://members.xoom.com/esumerfd/ActiveWorlds/Frames.htm

--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Feb 8, 1999, 7:17am

Abbot, my solution in Delphi is to put birde back to zero once
destroyed. Then, in the main loop, you test:

If birde is different to zero, call the birde routines, otherwise skip
them. If you call them when there is no "birde" defined (you just
destroyed it), then you crash the program.

XelaG.

On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:32:31 -0500, "Abbot Pabisoko"
[View Quote] >I changed the code so now it looks like this:
>
> if (aw_instance() == birde)
> {
> if (strncmp(message, "BYE BYE BLACKBIRD", 14) == 0)
> {
> aw_instance_set(birde);
> aw_say("SQUAAWWWWKK!");
> aw_destroy();
> }
> }
>
>the bird squawks, then I get that message again...maybe im missing a
>parameter in aw_destroy or something...
>
>
[View Quote] --
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Feb 8, 1999, 8:26am

Hi jeanphi:

A short diggression about querying in Delphi.

Before starting, I install the following:

procedure InstallBuild();
var rc, x, z: Integer;
begin
aw_kallback_set(AW_CALLBACK_QUERY, at cbkQuery);
rc := aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_CELL_BEGIN, at evtCellBegin);
rc := aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_CELL_OBJECT, at evtCellObject);
rc := aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_CELL_END, at evtCellEnd);

rc := aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_OBJECT_ADD, at evtObjectAdd);
rc := aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_OBJECT_DELETE, at evtObjectDelete);

aw_kallback_set(AW_CALLBACK_OBJECT_RESULT, at cbkObjectResult);
end;

Then I calculate the cell (cNS, cWE) and sector (sNS, sWE) coords for
a given position (pNS, pWE) in cm:

procedure SectorFromPosition(pNS, pWE: Integer; var cNS, cWE, sNS,
sWE: Integer);
begin
cNS := Round((pNS-499.5)/1000); {is NOT the central cell of
sector}
cWE := Round((pWE-499.5)/1000);
sNS := aw_sector_from_cell(cNS); {central sector of the zone}
sWE := aw_sector_from_cell(cWE);
end;

Your Sequence[<NS from 0 to 2>, <WE from 0 to 2>] array has the
following meaning:

- each pair "represents" a sector of your 9-sector zone, organised so:
(2,2) NW | (2,1) NC | (2,0) NE
....
(0,2) SW | (0,1) SC | (0,0) SE

the central (2,1) representing your sNS, sWE calculated above. This
array of integers should contain zeros or a valid sequence from a
previous query, and will be updated in the following order: (1,1),
(0,0) etc as in this diagram (thanks Canopus for this tip):

9 8 7
6 1 5
4 3 2

If you use multi-instances, dont forget to set your intstance before
querying.
aw_instance_set(Instance);
rc := aw_query (sWE, sNS, Sector);
where Sector, of type SectorSeqs, is my Sequence array in disguise:
type SectorSeqs = Array[0..2, 0..2] of Integer;

NB: in aw_query you pass in this order: WE, NS, but in the Sequence
array the order is reversed: NS, WE!

If everything went right, this should start off the query, getting
events:

AW_EVENT_CELL_BEGIN, my evtCellBegin
with the following attributes:
aw_instance;
aw_int(AW_CELL_Z);
aw_int(AW_CELL_X);
aw_int(AW_CELL_SIZE);
aw_int(AW_CELL_SEQUENCE);

and a series of
AW_EVENT_CELL_OBJECT, my evtCellObject
with attributes:
aw_instance;
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_NUMBER);
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_OWNER);
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_BUILD_TIMESTAMP);
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_Z);
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_X);
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_Y);
aw_int(AW_OBJECT_YAW);
aw_string(AW_OBJECT_MODEL);
aw_string(AW_OBJECT_DESCRIPTION);
aw_string(AW_OBJECT_ACTION);

followed by a useless event
AW_EVENT_CELL_END

This CellBegin to CellEnd will repeat itself, and then:

if you didnt install the the callback AW_CALLBACK_QUERY then aw_query
will block until all this is done. If you installed the callback, then
this series of events ends inthis callback, my cbkQuery(rc: Integer),
where you can retreive the following attributes:
aw_instance;
aw_bool(AW_QUERY_COMPLETE);

If AW_QUERY_COMPLETE is false, you must call aw_query again to
continue the query (if you wish a complete query). If it is true, then
the query is complete, and live update starts if the event handlers
aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_OBJECT_ADD, at evtObjectAdd);
aw_event_set(AW_EVENT_OBJECT_DELETE, at evtObjectDelete);
are installed.

This is the first part of the story. It's in AW_EVENT_CELL_OBJECT
where you can test whether your required object was found.

XelaG.


--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Feb 8, 1999, 8:29am

Errata:


the central (2,1) representing your sNS, sWE calculated above. This
array of integers should contain zeros or a valid sequence from a
previous query, and will be updated in the following order: (1,1),
(0,0) etc as in this diagram (thanks Canopus for this tip):

should read:


the central (1,1) .... etc...

--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Feb 8, 1999, 8:59am

Another clarification. In

AW_EVENT_CELL_BEGIN

cNS := aw_int(AW_CELL_Z)
cWE := aw_int(AW_CELL_X)
qSeq := aw_int(AW_CELL_SEQUENCE)

sxNS := aw_sector_from_cell(cNS);
sxWE := aw_sector_from_cell(cWE);

sapNS := sxNS - sNS + 1;
sapWE := sxWE - sWE + 1;

where sNS, sWE are the central sector coords as calculated above.

Overflow := (sapNS < 0)
or (sapNS > 2)
or (sapWE < 0)
or (sapWE > 2);

Update the Sequence array, if not Overflow:
Sector[sapNS, sapWE] := qSeq;

XelaG.
--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Feb 17, 1999, 11:57pm

On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:15:44 -0800, "Roland Vilett"
[View Quote] >I am not sure what the plans are yet in this department. I will have to
>check with mgmt and get back to you on that...allowing bots in these worlds
>isn't so much related to whether the SDK is beta or released, it's related
>to the potential for bot abuse in these worlds (e.g. massive robo building
>projects) and whether or not people are actually going to abuse them.
>
>-Roland

Roland,

You will always have cases of citizen / tourist abuse. Even without
sdk bots, anyone can use a keyboard accelerator, even tourists. The
problem is being examined, in my humble but firm opinion, from the
wrong angle.

I think one should seriously start to consider ways to control human
misbehaviour in a more effective way. This becomes more urgent when
tools become better and more elaborate. At the moment, control on
human abuse is not being implemented well, maybe due to lack of
resources.

It's illogical to develop new techniques only to ban them because they
might be missused, when it is technically perfectly possible, in the
case of bots, to trace the owner of the bot. Only, unluckily, the sdk
itself can't do that at the present moment. As we all know, a bot logs
in identifying its owner at the universe level. Therefore, if a person
uses a bot to build in an undesirable way, get that person, but not
the bots in general.

One step in the good direction would be to have the sdk producing
automatically the citizen number of the owner of the bot, as a
companion attribute to the session number. This would help world
owners and bot makers to identify the culprits.

I don't know how 'banning' is implemented, but it seems to me that a
list like the rights list (255 chars i believe) is totally inadequate.
Some way must be found at universe and world level to register and
implement negative rights.

In short, concentrate in solving *human* abuse. We wouldn't have cars,
airplanes nor computers if the current trend of 'ban the bot' had
prevailed in those areas.

Congrats for the launching of the 2.1 browser!

XelaG :o)





>
[View Quote] --
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Feb 20, 1999, 5:05pm

Baggis, I think yours is a real issue. More that one bot around
communicates with the maker's server: Hambots, Imabots. Mine would if
I knew how to. The bot maker can encryt whatever he wishes, there is
no control on that. And like any other program, the bot could contain
a virus or be a trojan.

I guess the same will have to apply as with any executable: you'll
have to trust the maker.

XelaG.

On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:49:36 +0100, "Baggis" <baggis at swipnet.se>
[View Quote] >Hi folks,
>
>I've 'bumped' into the situation that the person I wrote a SDK bot for was
>afraid starting it because the bot could send the privilege pwd ( or some
>other information ) to me.
>
>Hmmm... I thought... that is a problem... how can anyone using a SDK bot
>trust the creator of it ? Guess they can't.... The bot is a program and
>therefore it's capable of doing almost everthing.....
>
>But, is there some way of convincing the user it's safe atleast when it
>comes to the privilege pwd ?
>
>Is there a controlmechanism in the universe-server that tracks SDK bots and
>what citnum and pwd they use when logging in ?
>
>/Baggis
>
>

--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Mar 3, 1999, 11:25am

In my experience, the SDK doesn't seem to mind if you write East as
-900 or 2700, both seem to be treated correctly. Querying property I
found out that some objects have their yaw stored as negative angles,
maybe due to a clockwise rotation. I myself use only positive values.

XelaG.

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:35:46 +0100, "Walter Knupe" <wak at faber.ping.de>
[View Quote] >
>Well, i have. When examining it i found that starting from direction 0 it counts up to 1799 when turning clockwise and down to
>-1800 when turning counterclockwise.
>
>Its not what i expected, but once you know its ok :)
>
>Walter aka Faber
>
>
> Edward Sumerfield schrieb in Nachricht <36DC01C5.294FED91 at poboxes.com>...
> I've never seen that before. What code are you using to get it?
[View Quote] --
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Mar 15, 1999, 10:55pm

Thank you BjarteS!

(please read the ng, may enlighten you, most sdk developpers are aware
of these updates, we've been working on it for months)

.... AW is open again, but it did scare the wits out of me...

XelaG

[View Quote] >That's why the aw browser is updated to asign rights on bots, so you can
>restrict bot's to only some people or everyone.....caus some bot scripts and
>bot programs can bee anoying to other people in the world...
>
>BjarteS
>

--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Mar 17, 1999, 5:33pm

I fully agree with Canopus on this issue.

Some time ago I pointed out the necessity of identifying the bot's
owner: this is still not possible and is CRUCIAL in controlling OWNER
misbehaviour. A bot doesn't misbehave, just as a car doesn't: it is
the owners who do, and they must be identifiable.

True, a bot can act faster than a citizen. When bicycles came, we went
faster, when cars came even more so. What would be the state of things
if you couldn't identify a car's owner?

Restricting bots is putting technology there and forbidding its use.
Bloddy useful! Unless COF dares to allow bots generally and cope with
owner misbehaviour, bots will remain an elitaire technology, privilege
of few, and chatbots will keep predominating. Responsible bot makers
would have a better tool for disciplining their bots if the citizen
number were sent together with the session number: other bots could
then easily identify the owners, the aw browser might even incorporate
that as a feature: bot id known, culprit known!

By the way, building misbehaviour without sdk bots is very easy: just
use a keyboard controller, its been around for a long time.

XelaG.
--
Xelagot 46ADB [Delph]
creator: XelaG
email: decastro at cable.a2000.nl

Jul 26, 1999, 8:02am

Xelagot beta-testers and users,

Please download the latest version of Xelagot 2.69. A very
infrequently occuring bug has been fixed. This bug could put the bot
in an endless loop querying for a non existing citizen at a frequency
of one query per second, possibly resulting in a universe-server
overload. Only two cases of this were noticed (in months of testing),
both last Saturday, in two different universes.

Thanks, XelaG.

--
XelaG
email: xelag at 3dee.com
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot

Jul 31, 1999, 6:06pm

[View Quote] >How do I teleport a bot winthin a world? If I use the
>"mybot.setposition" the bot goes walking, but I want him to teleport

The browser has its own peculiar idea of how to handle short distance
teleports: it wil try to smooth a curved path to the new location, so
the bot will appear to walk. In reality, the world server has already
registered the final coordinates, but the browser tricks our senses.
There is nothing we can really do to change this.

XelaG

Aug 3, 1999, 9:54am

Congratulations :)

[View Quote] >HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA i'm a 13 year old that has no experience in c++ and TODAY,
>i got the sample greeter bot WORKING!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!! I'm
>soooo happy!
>(i'm using c++)
>
--
XelaG
email: xelag at 3dee.com
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot

Aug 7, 1999, 10:27pm

Hi Roland,

My question as such is formulated at the end of this message :)

We are testing bots to run on the WorldconVR words e_xpo and e_trek. I
have been getting this message, which, if i follow the error codes
(which i do), forces the bots to leave the world and stop executing
their tasks:

21:09:24 VRT: vrcon503 expelled from e_xpo, reason 467 Not welcome
21:09:24 VRT: vrcon503 left e_xpo

the first time i noticed this was yesterday, the 3rd bot on a
multi-instance application using the same citizen number got this
message, while the first 2 bots got a normal wfs message.

The example I just quoted also happened during a wfs. I had two bot
programs running, each using a different copy or aw.dll build 15:
Delph on one, vrcon501, vrcon502, and vrcon503 on the other program.

[Delph] got this message (he has a Caretaker status in e_xpo):
21:09:23 [vrcon501] exits s# 46653 at 7.5n 2.7w 4.0a 180
21:09:23 [vrcon502] exits s# 46768 at 7.8n 2.7w 4.0a 180
21:09:23 [vrcon503] exits s# 45755 at 8.0n 2.7w 4.0a 180
21:09:27 [vrcon501] enters s# 46653 at 7.2n 2.6w 4.0a 199
21:09:41 [vrcon501] exits s# 46653 at 6.4n 2.3w 4.0a 234

At the same time, the 3 bots in the other application (using one and
the same citizen number, have only bot and eject rights, no enter) got
these messages. The first bot got:
21:09:24 VRT: vrcon501 disconnected from e_xpo, reason 471 Connection
lost
21:09:27 VRT: vrcon501 re-established contact with e_xpo, code
EventAvatarAdd-54445
21:09:27 [Delph] enters s# 54445 at 0.0n 0.0w 0.0a 0
21:09:41 VRT: vrcon501 expelled from e_xpo, reason 467 Not welcome
21:09:42 VRT: vrcon501 left e_xpo

The other 2 bots got a direct 467:
21:09:24 VRT: vrcon502 expelled from e_xpo, reason 467 Not welcome
21:09:24 VRT: vrcon502 left e_xpo


21:09:24 VRT: vrcon502 expelled from e_xpo, reason 467 Not welcome
21:09:24 VRT: vrcon502 left e_xpo

All disconnect messages (reason 471 and reason 467) are produced by
aw_world_disconnect, re-connect messages depend on which function
'detects' re-connection, in this case it was the avatar_add event. The
last line, vrcon501, is a bot-program message as a result or the
reason 'not welcome', and shows that all functions the bot was
accoplishing have been stopped for good; a simple disconnect due to
wfs does not stop the bot permanently, any other reason kills it.

My question: due to the fact the bots have to work unattended and work
reliably (for Worldcon VR and av99, where they will be fulfilling
vital tasks), should i ignore the reason codes the sdk produces, or is
there a workaround i have missed. Or, what is likely, have I
mis-interpreted the enter/bots rights? bot rights give enter
automatically to bots, even if they are not in the enter field. Until
now i have assumed that that was the correct interpretation for all
situations, but in this case I am doubting this interpretation: maybe
they should be in both fields, just in case?

Thanks in advance for reading and replying,

XelaG.

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