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Dec 13, 2000, 2:16am

Hiya,

I don’t usually post to these newsgroups, but it seems that it is
necessary here, to set the story straight. I will include a little
history:

When I came to AW about 4 years ago, I was mesmerized by the 3d effect
where one can actually create homes, buildings, worlds in such great
detail. Anyone who knows me, knows I have a PASSION for NYC and I go
there any chance I get. I have had this dream from my early AW days of
creating Times Square… often daydreaming where I would place what
building…where the GZ landing would be, etc. My big break came almost 2
years ago when I was given the opportunity to buy NewYork. After
attaining this world…a man named Just In contacted me, asking my plans
for NewYork and requesting that I allow him to build it there. He sent
me his AW cords a few times and requested I see his building abilities.
Over time, I finally did and recognized his talent and that he would
probably be able to achieve my design. There was never a deal, never a
contract, verbal or otherwise concerning NewYork. Justin was merely a
builder who contacted me asking to build there. He soon demanded more
and more privs in NewYork, caretakership and finally this past summer
ftp access to the path.

I took several trips to NYC taking 100’s of pictures of Times Square
each time, huge development, film costs and countless hours scanning
them. Although, the pics were never good enough for Justin.

Any time I had someone interested in helping build in NY..Justin had a
way to make that person feel like less a builder and afraid to do
anything in there. Over time, I stopped asking people to come in to
help, since it caused hassles and I got the feeling Justin felt his
“territory” was being invaded. Being the perfectionist he is and
respecting his territorial complex, I let him be, giving him complete
access and control of NewYork to do what he wished. I recognize
now…that was my big mistake. Even when I created rwx, for eg, when I
realized I was able to create a frameless object that can import
pictures and made several sizes. Justin jumped right on it…found mine
to be less than perfect and created I would venture to guess well over
a dozen sizes and attached his name to it.

I worked weeks on designing NewYork Tourist avs…I may not be as quick as
many of the talented modelers in AW, but I am persistent. After hours
and hours of work on the Tshirt design and all the texturing, Justin
would comment, the complection needed to be tanner, the glasses tighter
to face, more or less shade on glasses. Nothing is ever good enough for
Justin. I found over time, it was best to leave Justin working alone in
NewYork, he seemed to like it that way… and it kept him out of trouble.
I considered it a kind of therapy for him and he even agreed with me at
one point that this was true. I wonder now if Justin was this difficult
with me when I tried to create in my world or with others…so that he
would have exclusive claim to its creation. I see now this in fact may
be the case. Ironically at the same point, it seemed by his comments in
this newsgroup, that he became jealous of my commitment in other
worlds. Justin is never satisfied.

I never asked him to create custom rwx for NewYork and in fact quite the
opposite I asked him to refrain from adding rwx due to the fact, I was
not certain how many files I was able to add to the object path. Now
looking back, Im afraid Justin may have feverishing added so many
customized rwx in NewYork so that he can claim what he is today,
requesting all his objects back and trashing my ftp like he did.
Looking back, I was quite naïve letting Justin in and giving him so much
control and power in my world, allowing him to keep the creation
exclusively.

Anyone who had ever come to NewYork (before the creation of Broadway)
and met me and complimented the world…would know I openly and lavishly
credited Justin for the beauty of the world. I, in fact, told him in
the summer that I would gladly write him a letter of reference for an
employer he was seeking employment with at that time.

The Breakup/Shakedown:
Whether it was due to my increased work hours outside of VR or his
jealousy over my involvement in other worlds, Justin became increasingly
demanding in the summer. Finally threatened to delete my object
yard/testing ground which is located in a far corner of the world deep
underground, not interfereing with any of his builds. He felt it was
too “messy” and was going to delete it, if I didn’t fix it up to his
standards. I don’t know what anyone in here would have done by than…but
I quickly changed the NewYorker privs (building privs) although Justin
number was in building until the day Broadway was created and I took his
number out of caretakership. I needed to protect what little was mine
in there…by rights it was MY world wasn’t it?

At this point…there may have been a chance of a resolve…but Justins next
move was unforgiveable. He begged my host on a few occasions to put up
a duplicate world with my world data and give him ftp access to their
path, since he had a business woman from NYC coming in to view his
work. I felt this was very sneaky, deceitful and devious. I felt he
was trying to sell my world from under me. He, in fact, after
this…stated to me in a conversation, he was prepared to buy my world off
me!!! I had no clue where that comment came from since my world was not
for sale!!!

Trust is an important issue for me…with any kind of friendship I have in
AW…anyone who knows me…knows how paramount this issue is with me. He
broke that trust and I don’t know if that ever can be repaired. Several
things happened after this, which you heard bits and pieces in this ng
and Justin will do just about anything to achieve a goal he has set out
for himself. Noone or nothing will get in his way. The only times did
he so graciously offer me a part in Broadway was because he needed
several objects in my world and knew that if I was part of Broadway
that he would get them and it would at that point, just make it easier
on him, instead of recreating those objects. I know now from experience
Justin does not offer anything a plan….he lives by a plan and his
personal goals are always the reason for the plan, and other peoples
feelings or morality in general is never considered in the plan.

When Posh comes in here enraged about the goings on…she does have a
right to…cause she knows blow by blow what had gone on between Justin
and I, everything that was exchanged in the process and heard many of
his comments. I think this most recent one where he came to NewYork
gloating, is what enraged her enough to send her to post in here.
Just In: I don't care - Broadway is a success - and you can't stop it -
and you can't be part of it
Posh: btw.. thank you for the screen shots Just In
Just In: I have the winning team
Posh: nobody wants to be a part of a stolen world
Posh: and you can be sure that you will be quoted direct on the
protesting page
Just In: then why does Broadway ALWAYS have more people in it that
NewYork?


Im sorry for being so lengthy in here and taking up so much of your time
on this issue. But after so many posts, I felt I needed to set the
record straight, why Justin was taken out of the caretakership of my
world after giving him complete control of NewYork, all the tools he
needed to develop his modeling abilities including renewing his
citizenship and feeling like he just turned around and kicked me in the
face in return!

FriendPA (A friend in PA who loves NY)

PS. I worked long and diligently on restoring a new path. Everytime I
re-added to the old path…Justin would go in once again and delete…so I
started a new path and this is why everything loads fine presently.

Dec 13, 2000, 3:27am

In response to that, I'd like to share this chatlog of a conversation I
had with Just In last night, detailing his side of the story. I will
reproduce it here, word for word, only interjecting to explain what was
happening at the time. You will most likely note I wasn't all that
objective in my "grilling" of Just, but I was operating out of anger at
the time and was only looking for answers.

P.S. FriendPA, this is what I wanted to talk to you about earlier, but
your post has done that for me. Thanks.

---
Prelude: Immediately after perusing Zero's webpage, I went to Broadway
world to see if I could locate Just In and find out what he had to say
for himself. Not finding him there, I then went to NewYork and
telegrammed him, asking him to come and talk to me. He said he was in
the middle of something and asked if it could wait 10 minutes. I said
sure. In the meantime, I ran into Rehabber in NewYork and we chatted for
a few...

*********************************************************
* Active Worlds chat session: Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:33 AM *
*********************************************************

Immigration Officer: Welcome to NewYork, the ORIGINAL VR Times Square
and not a copy of it. Enjoy the sights and sounds of Times Square from
the comfort of your home. If you have any questions or comments email
Friendpa at newyork at gotoworld.com.
Goober King: allo
Rehabber: hello
Goober King: what's up? :)
Rehabber: not much.. just checking out what zero had posted
Goober King: *nod* same here
Rehabber: don't know is there is much that can be done.. no copyrights
on the contents of a world
Goober King: *nod* They are Just In's objects... I'm more interested in
the claims that were made on the website
Goober King: If they are even remotely true, Just has much to answer
for...
Rehabber: like in any industry.. if you make something while employed by
another for another, the something belongs to the another.. paid
employment or not
Goober King: hrm... well, the way I understand it, NewYork was a joint
project
Rehabber: enforcment of that will be difficult
Rehabber: I only know one side of it.. the posted in the newsgroup
side.. I don't know the world owner here
Goober King: I'm not looking to enforce anything... I don't have that
kind of power... just looking for answers right now

At this point, Just In telegrammed me saying he could join me, and
did...

Immigration Officer: Just In would like to join you. Type 'y' to accept
this request, or 'n' to reject it.
Immigration Officer: You are being joined by Just In.
Goober King: speak of the devil
Rehabber: I suppose both sides will come out eventually
Rehabber: they always do
Goober King: heya Just
Just In: hi
Rehabber: I've never been here before.. nice objects
Goober King: *nod*
Just In: you called?
Goober King: That I did...
Just In: I shouldn't be in here - I'm not welcome
Goober King: eh... I'm sure they'll get over it
Just In: can we go to Alpha or something?
Just In: kay
Rehabber: green dot world.. if you were not welcome then you would
prolly be on auto eject
Goober King: No one else is here
Just In: okay
Goober King: Anyways, what's this I hear about corrupting of an OP?
Just In: an OP? what is an OP
Goober King: ...
Goober King: Object Path
Just In: hi Rehabber :o)
Rehabber: howdy Just
Just In: oh... I asked PA to delete my objects from her path
Just In: and my textures and pictures
Goober King: and?
Just In: she didn't - so I did... but naturally anything that was not
my own object I did not touch
Goober King: So why are they still here:?
Just In: obvious she has kept copies of them on her PC and replaced them
- which I expected her to do anyways
Goober King: *shakes head* I don't believe this... you're doing it again
Just In: they are still here because she wants them here
Goober King: are you ok with that?
Just In: not really - but outside of taking legal action there's nothing
I can do
Just In: so I've decide the best action is to put up with it
Goober King: What exactly was the nature of your "partnership" with
FriendPA? Joint venture, or were you just the object guy?
Just In: it would have been at least decent for PA to have put up a
credit...
Just In: seeing everything you see here I built
Just In: I did all of it... pa took photos
Just In: twice
Goober King: Was it as a favor?... did you and FriendPA equally own the
world? what?
Just In: she spent 2 days on this by going to times square and taking
photos
Just In: she owned the world...
Just In: owns
Just In: I built it ... no agreement about anything
Rehabber: well.. this sounds more like a personal issue to me rather
than what was posted.. so I think I'll have to call it "none of my
business"... see you guys later
Goober King: heh see ya Rehabber

At this point, Rehabber left and it was only Just In and myself left in
NewYork...

Just In: PA saw what I did in Alpha World - the place that won the Cy...
Just In: she asked me to build Times Square...
Just In: I said okay...
Goober King: And you did
Just In: I told her I had big plans then... that we get money out of
it through advertising
Just In: she said okay...
Just In: and so it goes
Just In: long story
Goober King: But you just build the place... yer hardly in a position to
decide the course of a world
Just In: we fought split... I tried to make up, she said no... so I
went and got a new world and I'm continueing what I started there
Just In: yep - you're right
Goober King: The fact is, they may be your objects, but it wasn't your
project... so you really have no right to copy it outright
Just In: not my project?
Goober King: Not your idea
Just In: which idea?
Goober King: To recreate NewYork
Just In: okay... I'm going off to build a house in Alpha... don't
you dare take my cool idea and make a house yourself
Goober King: There's a difference between making a house, and copying a
reallife city
Just In: how many paintings are there of the London Towers?
Goober King: Besides, I'd be pissed if someone copied my house too...
wouldn't you be pissed if someone made a copy of your Cy Award winning
place?
Just In: not if they put my name to it... I'd be honoured
Just In: in fact... quite a few have compied things from my place...
I don't mind...
Goober King: What if someone helped you build it, then went off in a fit
and rebuilt if himself, claiming it as his own
Just In: my work is fantastic... why should people want to have my
work?
Just In: are you suggest PA helped me build this?
Goober King: PA asked for your assistance, did she not?
Just In: she provided the land... and took photos
Just In: the rest is me - all of it
Just In: every line on the road...
Just In: every pole every sign
Just In: every picture I made
Goober King: So? She still helped... without those photos, none of this
would be possible
Just In: every wall in every place me me me
Just In: wrong...
Just In: her pictured weren't needed
Goober King: Then what the hell was she taking pictures for? A photo
album?
Just In: I arranged for new photographers because hers were not up to
the quality I needed
Goober King: And she agreed to this?
Just In: even that avatar you are wearing now - she couldn't get that
right - I had to finish it
Goober King: Did she agree to this?
Just In: yes
Goober King: What'd she do after that?
Just In: complained that she wasn't as good as me
Goober King: and?
Just In: and what?
Goober King: so she just did absolutely nothing else after that?
Just In: she put a dog on 46th street
Just In: wanna see?
Goober King: Just... please
Just In: you know who organised last years new years event here? me
Just In: you know who organised business people to come look... me
Goober King: Well woo for you
Just In: :o)
Just In: lemme show you why she took away my building rights
Goober King: What did PA want that was so horrible you couldn't use this
place anymore?

Here, Just In walked off towards the outskirts of the main built-up area
of NewYork to a small area with all sorts of avatars lined up, as if on
display. Next to them were a collection of signs detailing avatar
filenames and problems associated with that avatar...

Just In: OMG... she actually cleaned it up!
Just In: oh no... here they come
Goober King: what?
Just In: I asked PA to put away the avs she was not repairing until she
was ready to come do some work
Just In: I made this stand here to encourage her to repair the error
Avatars
Just In: see here - I made signs for her telling her which errors there
were
Goober King: and?
Just In: after 4 months of asking her... I grew tired...
Just In: I told her I would delete them, and for her to robocopy this
area if she wanted to reconstruct it when she was ready to fix her avs
Just In: her reaction was to remove my building rights
Just In: I complained...
Just In: she removed caretaker rights...
Just In: I complained more... she told me not to come back
Just In: I begged her to reconcile... she refused
Goober King: So just out of the blue, she decides she doesn't like you
anymore
Just In: I offered her free ownership in a new world Broadway... no
cost... more land than NewYork.... and keep NewYork all for herself
no strings...
Just In: she said no
Just In: I threatened her Goober... I told her off
Goober King: what the hell for?
Just In: she got annoyed - rightly so...
Just In: I am annoying
Goober King: No, you are scum
Just In: thanks
Just In: did you want to add anything more?
Goober King: I remember when I first heard about Just In... he was one
of the best teachers in AWSchool... everybody thought he was great, and
I thought he was pretty cool too... especially after seeing his
builds... wondered whatever happened to him...
Goober King: always willing to help people out... even offered to build
a few things for em...
Just In: were you going to type more?
Goober King: Now all that's left is some sad little man, consumed by his
own narcisistic greed...
Just In: Goobs - I tried for two months to resolve the whole thing with
PA - I'm note sure what it is you expected me to do?
Goober King: How about not threatening people, for starters... she asked
for your help... out of the goodness of your heart (I hope) you
accepted... now you want to take over and profit from it, and PA is
holding you back? wtf?!
Just In: I wanted to keep building here
Just In: I apologised to her for anything she felt was a threat
Goober King: Damage done... should've thought of that *before* shooting
your mouth off
Just In: agreed
Just In: I'm sorry for that
Goober King: Then work it out... stabbing her in the back like this
certainly doesn't demonstrate any amount of regret
Just In: she told me flatly many times over - she no longer wanted me
here...
Goober King: *after* you threatened her
Just In: correct - I apologised for that...
Goober King: Why would you need to say such things in the first place?
Just In: but perhaps you can at least sympathise for my cause... this
avatar stand was full of avatars that if chosen by visitors would cause
errors
Just In: to crash their AW
Just In: I finally relented that PA couldn't find the time to fix
them...
Just In: so I wanted to delete this
Just In: if you came here with 3.0 you'd get errors or crash...
depending on what card you have
Just In: after 4 months PA wouldn't take action... I asked nice asked
asked asked...
Goober King: *nod* that's fine, I understand that... but if PA didn't
have the time to fix them, why didn't you just offer to fix them
yourself?
Just In: then demanded...
Just In: then said enough... I'm deleting it
Just In: she said no - and took my building privs away
Goober King: *points at previous question* We've been here already
Just In: because I wanted PA to contribute
Just In: I wanted PA and I to work as a team...
Goober King: Umm.... it's *her* world, dude
Just In: and all the time I was lonely in here... and sad
Goober King: oh, give it a rest
Just In: well - after a year of it, I think you would get jack of it too
Just In: now I have to hear you calling me scum
Goober King: I would try and find out what she wanted... as far as this
is all concerned you were working for her, not the other way around
Just In: I like working with people, helping them learn, and enjoying my
work
Just In: working for her... for what reason?
Goober King: You were making the objects for her
Just In: I was making objects for me
Goober King: Umm... nooo... she asked you to make objects for *her*
world... *her* idea... *you* accepted
Just In: no... she never asked me to make objects... I just did
Goober King: Dude... you just told me she came to you asking to make
objects for her
Just In: well - thats not what she asked and I apologise if I
miscommunicated
Goober King: What did she ask, then?
Just In: for me to build times square
Just In: Goobs... are we wasting time here?
Just In: well I be anything other than "scum"
Goober King: You could redeem yourself by getting rid of Broadway... or
at least changing it to something else... (replica of Chicago perhaps?)
And getting back on good terms with PA and making *this* world what it's
supposed to be
Just In: No - but I would be willing to accept FriendPAs apology for her
mistreatment of me...
Just In: and forgive her for her slander...
Goober King: bullshit... you mistreated her first
Just In: and I may even conceed to letting her endorse Boradway
Just In: she can come to me
Just In: I've already gone to PA and licked her feet... while I did
that she kicked me in the head
Just In: I have to go...
Just In: sorry you feel how you do
Just In: I hold nothing against you... and will keep you in high
regard
Just In: bye
Goober King: Well, I'll be talking with PA as well... I find it *very*
hard to believe you would act like this
Goober King: Most disturbing...
---

Make whatever judgments you will. I have already made mine....

--
Goober King
Hopes PA can forgive Just In, Just In can put his ego aside, and then
work together on this...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Dec 13, 2000, 5:55am

Its a shame FriendPA in the interests of clearing the truth posted this
post.

Its an inditement on the rest of you that she was compelled to do so.

All that she said is true, although sometimes she gives her opinion about my
motivations which, while partly true, do not give the complete picture and
as a whole it misses out on how sad I am about everything.

Yes I am a perfectionist and yes I am self interested. I adopted FriendPA's
dream and even now want to fulfil it. I valued her friendship and wish
there was never a split. The whole thing is just a tragedy.

I want a successful world, both as a community world and a commercial one.
I'd so much rather have FriendPA's support, but not having it does mean I
should give up.

To PA, sorry I'm not a better person. Any time you want to talk please
don't hesitate. When I deleted my files, I was 95% sure you had back-ups
anyway - Lord knows I reminded you enough times to keep back-ups.

To the rest of you, shut the f*** and get off our case.

Regards, Justin


[View Quote]

Dec 13, 2000, 12:16pm

This is a paramount issue here and we will not "get off your case" I think
you need to answer why you would delete the objects in the first place?
you even said you were sure she had backups.....sounds like pure harassment
to me.

Perfection is fine, but anyone that REQUIRES perfection in everyone around
them with have no one around them. This is supposed to be a fun place for
everyone.... EGO's will kill the fun.

Oh, and BTW, telling people to shut up only demands a response...;)

Leo :) aka BinaryBud

ps; wouldn't it be funny if you started getting emails about all your
"imperfect" objects and builds? after all NOBODY's perfect... : )




[View Quote]

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