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Aug 23, 2003, 5:58pm

Uh, we haven't had a single successful hack attempt in eight years. The
last one, someone "owned" a private machine that was served on the platform,
so it really wasn't our problem. I'm sure if you go to any major
business/university/corporation/etc, you'll find that they run on windows.
Heck, the only machines that were taken over by Trojans were Linux machines
that got hit with the RaMeN worm going around a few years back. I was
wrong, you aren't running Linux, you're running windows. So, wouldn't that
make you a hypocrite? I mean, according to you, windows is the devil. So,
shouldn't you buy a Macintosh or install Linux on your machine, or are you
like many, a masochist?

Also what are these "crackers" going to do to some windows boxes? I didn't
know that flooding a box with serial numbers was a very effective way of
taking them down. Really, the only vulnerabilities come from the 3rd party
software running on the machine. Oracle was probably the most defective of
them all. On a normal scan I'd pick up 200 machines with oracle problems,
and one with a small security hole that wasn't patched. But, all the
machines that weren't patched, were nonproduction, thus not placed on the
internet loop.

You can just say that the university I work at is some fluke in the system,
and everywhere else uses Linux and UNIX, and Sun, and all those operating
systems. But, that that's just not the case. I really hope for your sake
you wise up and realize that the world isn't going to change for you.
Things are how they are, and are going to stay that way for a -long- time.
There's not going to be some freakish Linux Coup overnight or anything.

Maybe you can get a job at Bobs Discount Linux Emporium when your older...

-Joe

[View Quote]

Aug 24, 2003, 4:57pm

[View Quote] All the Universities and Technology institutes near where I am in NY use
linux and other open source alternatives, like Mozilla and OpenOffice.
Maybe it's just _your_ university that likes to pay insane license fees.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 74
Processing time: 66 days, 6 hours.
(Total hours: 1590)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 24, 2003, 8:00pm

Uh, so, every client uses Linux? Wow, the learning curve for new students
must be insane! :)

-Joe

[View Quote]

Aug 24, 2003, 8:03pm

[View Quote] Sure. Duel booting, remeber?

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 74
Processing time: 66 days, 6 hours.
(Total hours: 1590)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 25, 2003, 1:10am

So, you guys do use windows.... ....

-Joe

[View Quote]

Aug 25, 2003, 3:09am

[View Quote] I use it for entertainment... little else.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 74
Processing time: 66 days, 6 hours.
(Total hours: 1590)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 25, 2003, 10:53am

"joeman" <john at fakeplastic.com> wrote in
news:3f47c77f at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Uh, we haven't had a single successful hack attempt in eight years.

I seriously doubt that. But who knows, maybe your university just isn't
popular enough to get that sort of attention from crackheads.

> The last one, someone "owned" a private machine that was served on the
> platform, so it really wasn't our problem. I'm sure if you go to any
> major business/university/corporation/etc, you'll find that they run
> on windows.

So you're saying someone did get hacked on your network, and you just
blame it on whoever's responsible for that machine. Nice excuse. Yes, I
know that most major business/institutions run on mostly Win32, as I
already said. You're still missing the point obviously.

> Heck, the only machines that were taken over by Trojans
> were Linux machines that got hit with the RaMeN worm going around a
> few years back.

Maybe you just don't know enough about *NIX to administer them correctly
then? Anyway, I never said *NIX was inpenetrable, on the contrary.

> I was wrong, you aren't running Linux, you're running
> windows. So, wouldn't that make you a hypocrite? I mean, according
> to you, windows is the devil. So, shouldn't you buy a Macintosh or
> install Linux on your machine, or are you like many, a masochist?

Unfortunately for me, I'm dependent on some Win32 applications. I will
get some linux boxes up shortly, though. I also work some in the CYGWIN
UNIX emulator. Apple is worse than MS in principle, although in practice
they're not because all the home users go for MS. If Apple had the
monopoly, things would be even grimmer.

> Also what are these "crackers" going to do to some windows boxes? I
> didn't know that flooding a box with serial numbers was a very
> effective way of taking them down.

Serial numbers? What are you talking about? Anyway, there are quite a few
backdoors in Windows core components (the Blaster worm just showed off
one) they can use.

> Really, the only vulnerabilities
> come from the 3rd party software running on the machine. Oracle was
> probably the most defective of them all. On a normal scan I'd pick up
> 200 machines with oracle problems, and one with a small security hole
> that wasn't patched. But, all the machines that weren't patched, were
> nonproduction, thus not placed on the internet loop.

And you're supposed to be an admin? Wow, I pitty your users. I bet you
never went to that "popular" university of your's to learn things
properly before joining the workforce, as you put it.

There are a lot of vulnerabilities in 3rd party software, yes. But
they're by far not the only ones, and often not the most serious. A lot
of the worst things are in MS software that come with Windows, which
isn't really 3rd party software.

> You can just say that the university I work at is some fluke in the
> system, and everywhere else uses Linux and UNIX, and Sun, and all
> those operating systems. But, that that's just not the case. I
> really hope for your sake you wise up and realize that the world isn't
> going to change for you. Things are how they are, and are going to
> stay that way for a -long- time. There's not going to be some freakish
> Linux Coup overnight or anything.

Again, I know Win32 is the most popular, and again, THAT IS *NOT* THE
POINT! Quantity versus quality, Joe. Ever heard of that? No, apparently
not. I know there won't be a "Linux Coup" overnight. These things
progress slowly, but surely. Just wait, you'll see.

> Maybe you can get a job at Bobs Discount Linux Emporium when your
> older...

Maybe you can get a job at Microsoft when you're older. Perhaps as 2nd
class suck-up?

KAH

Aug 25, 2003, 6:12pm

Wow, you have a lot of learning to do kid.

[View Quote] Ok, sucessful and attempted are two different things. We get 200+ attempts
every day, none get through because our routers sink the connection. And,
what I see in the logs every day vary from the normal crackhead such as
yourself, to people who really know what they're doing.

> So you're saying someone did get hacked on your network, and you just
> blame it on whoever's responsible for that machine. Nice excuse. Yes, I
> know that most major business/institutions run on mostly Win32, as I
> already said. You're still missing the point obviously.

Ok, you see, thats like saying, a machine got hacked on the internet, so the
whole internet is to blame. We just provde the machine(s) with a private T1
trunk, they do whatever they want with it. Its not our problem, and it
doesnt really effect us if they get hacked.

> Maybe you just don't know enough about *NIX to administer them correctly
> then? Anyway, I never said *NIX was inpenetrable, on the contrary.

Uh, the only machine I really administrate is a linux machine that I use to
scan parts of the network. Its been attacked a lot, ranging from attempted
exploits to DoS attacks, nothing even comes near it really. I do believe I
know enough about *nix and its variants... Theres no much to learn.

> Unfortunately for me, I'm dependent on some Win32 applications. I will
> get some linux boxes up shortly, though. I also work some in the CYGWIN
> UNIX emulator. Apple is worse than MS in principle, although in practice
> they're not because all the home users go for MS. If Apple had the
> monopoly, things would be even grimmer.

Well, thats just too bad that you "depend" on some windows 32 applications.
Perhaps you're just not read to let go of VB and step into the wide world of
computing. Maybe one day... Also, having multipul linux machines up when
you're not clustering or using them for load balancing, is just wasteful.
CYGWIN is a joke. If apple was "worse" then MS, why arent they at the top
of the market? I mean, if MS is the bottom of the barrel bad, then being
worse must mean you have a larger share of the market.... Also, apple cant
get a monopoly by chaning OSs and making their computers look like candy.
Most people, you exculded, dont go for that kind of thing.

> Serial numbers? What are you talking about? Anyway, there are quite a few
> backdoors in Windows core components (the Blaster worm just showed off
> one) they can use.

Ok, crackers crack applications are serial numbers to bypass registration,
break encryption, and the like. _Hackers_ on the other hand, break into
systems and whatnot. Jesus KAH, I thought you'd have been on the net long
enough to know this by now.


> And you're supposed to be an admin? Wow, I pitty your users. I bet you
> never went to that "popular" university of your's to learn things
> properly before joining the workforce, as you put it.

I never said I was an admin, I only scan for problems in the network. :)
The only contact with admins is to resolve problems with the network and
servers connected to it under our control.

>
> There are a lot of vulnerabilities in 3rd party software, yes. But
> they're by far not the only ones, and often not the most serious. A lot
> of the worst things are in MS software that come with Windows, which
> isn't really 3rd party software.

Uh, more holes for 3rd party software are found each day then for windows.
I doubt that they were less serious then any windows problems. When was the
last time that windows gave a list of username and passwords through any
HTML browser? When did windows cause the machine to lock up when you sent
it malformed message? When did windows randomly crash because it couldnt
find it licensing server? etc, etc, etc.

> Again, I know Win32 is the most popular, and again, THAT IS *NOT* THE
> POINT! Quantity versus quality, Joe. Ever heard of that? No, apparently
> not. I know there won't be a "Linux Coup" overnight. These things
> progress slowly, but surely. Just wait, you'll see.

Win32 is the most popular, thus the most used. Live with it. Quantity
versus quality, well, kinda rings a bell... Economics class sucked, so, I
didnt pay attention. Now, there were some shit products, such as windows
1.0, 95, 98, 98 se, ME... But, if you didnt like them, dont use them and
keep your mouth shut. Its not like Microsoft is forcing you to use windows
at gunpoint... Also, theres no going to be a "Linux Coup", overnight or not.
Linux isnt going to be on everyones desktop in a few years. Lindows was a
joke, and all the other linux distrobutions are too hard for the average
computer user it install... So, you might want to do some reasearch before
you get your "army of linux boxes" up and running. ;)

> Maybe you can get a job at Microsoft when you're older. Perhaps as 2nd
> class suck-up?

Why would I want a job there? I had a few friends who worked there that
just got worked to the bone for low pay. I really dont think its worth it.
:) I'll take my sucking-up elsewhere where I'll get paid more.

>
> KAH

-Joe
Tralalala...

Aug 25, 2003, 8:13pm

Children please, we don't need 3 versions of me here.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 74
Processing time: 66 days, 6 hours.
(Total hours: 1590)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 26, 2003, 9:43am

"joeman" <john at fakeplastic.com> wrote in
news:3f4a6d9b$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Wow, you have a lot of learning to do kid.

You have a lot of learning and eye-opening to do yourself...

> Ok, sucessful and attempted are two different things. We get 200+
> attempts every day, none get through because our routers sink the
> connection. And, what I see in the logs every day vary from the
> normal crackhead such as yourself, to people who really know what
> they're doing.

I'm affraid I don't try attacking networks or computer systems. Accusing
me of such behaviour is slander.
In other words, you've got good hardware firewalls/security systems.
Guess it's the only thing that helps when trying to secure a win32
platform. Still proves absolutely nothing about Windows security.

> Ok, you see, thats like saying, a machine got hacked on the internet,
> so the whole internet is to blame. We just provde the machine(s) with
> a private T1 trunk, they do whatever they want with it. Its not our
> problem, and it doesnt really effect us if they get hacked.

Well, if that was a Windows box, it does illustrate my point, does it
not?

> Uh, the only machine I really administrate is a linux machine that I
> use to scan parts of the network. Its been attacked a lot, ranging
> from attempted exploits to DoS attacks, nothing even comes near it
> really. I do believe I know enough about *nix and its variants...
> Theres no much to learn.

By "you" I meant "all the admin personnel". You illustrate my point:
"nothing even comes near it". My point exactly.

> Well, thats just too bad that you "depend" on some windows 32
> applications. Perhaps you're just not read to let go of VB and step
> into the wide world of computing.

I program exclusively in portable C and PHP these days. Check your facts.

> Maybe one day... Also, having
> multipul linux machines up when you're not clustering or using them
> for load balancing, is just wasteful.

I'm not loaded with money, I'm talking older boxes here. In which case it
isn't wastefull, as each one of them isn't going to be all that
performant.

> CYGWIN is a joke.

In that case, it's a bloody good joke. CYGWIN gives me access to some
really nice UNIX applications that aren't/are badly ported to Win32.

> If apple was
> "worse" then MS, why arent they at the top of the market? I mean, if
> MS is the bottom of the barrel bad, then being worse must mean you
> have a larger share of the market.... Also, apple cant get a monopoly
> by chaning OSs and making their computers look like candy. Most
> people, you exculded, dont go for that kind of thing.

I'm talking in principle. Right now they're harmless, since everyone but
6 persons worldwide hate Macs. If, for some reason, they would've gotten
MS's current position, things would be a lot worse. Windows is a
proprietary software solution. Macintosh is a proprietary software and
hardware solution.
I don't know what the word "chaning" means, you'll have to explain that
to me. And no, I don't fall for strange case designs.

> Ok, crackers crack applications are serial numbers to bypass
> registration, break encryption, and the like.

You obviously don't know the correct definition of "cracker". I believe
Bowen gave it to you last night.

> _Hackers_ on the other
> hand, break into systems and whatnot. Jesus KAH, I thought you'd have
> been on the net long enough to know this by now.
>
> I never said I was an admin, I only scan for problems in the network.
> :) The only contact with admins is to resolve problems with the
> network and servers connected to it under our control.

If you scan for problems in the network, that's good enough for me;
you're an admin (a junior one, but still an admin)

> Uh, more holes for 3rd party software are found each day then for
> windows.

Well, of course. That's pure logic: there is much more 3rd party
software.

> I doubt that they were less serious then any windows
> problems.

Depends. But a lot of the time, they are less serious. Fact.

> When was the last time that windows gave a list of username
> and passwords through any HTML browser? When did windows cause the
> machine to lock up when you sent it malformed message?

Usually doesn't lock up, just executes some arbitrary code, or some other
insane behaviour.

> When did
> windows randomly crash because it couldnt find it licensing server?
> etc, etc, etc.

Windows doesn't have a licensing server. So how would it randomly crash
because it couldn't find one? Think, Joe, think!

> Win32 is the most popular, thus the most used. Live with it.

Are you blind? Stupid? Something like that? I've acknownledged Win32's
popularity (which MEANS it's the most used, but you wouldn't know that
with your low education) in *every* one of my posts on this subject. I do
live with it (I wasn't dead last time I checked). But I don't plan to do
so in future, because Win32 is a pile of *crap*. That it's most popular
doesn't make it *better*.

> Quantity versus quality, well, kinda rings a bell... Economics class
> sucked, so, I didnt pay attention. Now, there were some shit products,
> such as windows 1.0, 95, 98, 98 se, ME...

You forgot some (actually, nearly everything named "Microsoft *").

> But, if you didnt like them,
> dont use them and keep your mouth shut.

Why should I keep my mouth shut? I can show people there is an
ALTERNATIVE to win32 (it's a fact that many, if not most, home users have
no idea there is, besides Mac perhaps)!

> Its not like Microsoft is
> forcing you to use windows at gunpoint...

You don't know that ;-D But no, I explained it already, I depend on
certain applications.

> Also, theres no going to be
> a "Linux Coup", overnight or not.

When it's not overnight, it's not a coup. So I have to agree. But I
promise you, *NIX, probably Linux, is going to take over more and more of
the home market. If you can't see that, you're blind.

> Linux isnt going to be on everyones
> desktop in a few years.

Not everyone's. But many's desktop.

> Lindows was a joke, and all the other linux
> distrobutions are too hard for the average computer user it install...

I agree, Lindows was a bit of a joke. Regarding the other distros being
too hard to install, you're wrong. Some of them now have very easy to
use, graphical installers, similar to the Windows installers. They large
distros are working on becoming more user friendly for home users, you
know.

> So, you might want to do some reasearch before you get your "army of
> linux boxes" up and running. ;)

See above, and you'll realise it's time you did your homework :-))
Anyway, it's not like I'm going to pee my pants when I see a text-based
installer, it's what I normally use to install Linux (although I don't
have any installations myself, I have installed it for others).

> Why would I want a job there? I had a few friends who worked there
> that just got worked to the bone for low pay. I really dont think its
> worth it.
>:) I'll take my sucking-up elsewhere where I'll get paid more.

Nice for you. Maybe there even is a bit of hope for ya.

KAH

Aug 28, 2003, 11:50pm

[View Quote] > You have a lot of learning and eye-opening to do yourself...

My eyes are open. At least I'm not the one saying a linux revolution is
coming, albiet slowly...


> I'm affraid I don't try attacking networks or computer systems. Accusing
> me of such behaviour is slander.
> In other words, you've got good hardware firewalls/security systems.
> Guess it's the only thing that helps when trying to secure a win32
> platform. Still proves absolutely nothing about Windows security.

Do they not teach english very well up there in norway? I said, like... Not
you specifically, just, your "kind". Also, have fun launching a slander
case from norway to the US, I'm sure your lawyer would have a field-day with
the bill. Also, the firewalls are all software, this software then tells
the routers at both the node branch and the ones right outside of our trunk
to sink the host. I guess some crude software implimentation could be added
if necessary... But, all major companies use hardware systems to protect
their servers.

> Well, if that was a Windows box, it does illustrate my point, does it
> not?

Just because a few people dont know how to secure their systems, doesnt mean
the rest of the internet is to blame. Same goes for linux. What about
allll of those linux boxes that get owned because people dont know how to
secure them?

> By "you" I meant "all the admin personnel". You illustrate my point:
> "nothing even comes near it". My point exactly.

Wow, I didnt know that I was the entire administrative personnel. Thats
like, 100 people... I must be magic then. Again, do they not teach you
english in norway or something?

> I program exclusively in portable C and PHP these days. Check your facts.

Wow, normal people call this "portable C", ANSI C. PHP along with its other
scripting counterparts, are no better then VB. Just because they might
handle a little like C/C++, doesnt mean they even come close.

> I'm not loaded with money, I'm talking older boxes here. In which case it
> isn't wastefull, as each one of them isn't going to be all that
> performant.

It takes one 133MHz box to run everything. I've -found- computers that I
can run linux on. You can even run linux on embedded machines, which are
like, 33MHz each, with 128KB of onboard memory. Its not like you need 7GHz
with 8GB of DDR to run linux. Thats one of the reasons why its so popular,
it'll run on -anything-.

> In that case, it's a bloody good joke. CYGWIN gives me access to some
> really nice UNIX applications that aren't/are badly ported to Win32.

Wait, but, it runs on win32. I thought win32 was the "devil", and all that.
So really, besides from "I luvvv the applications!! I will never leave!!!",
whats the reason for staying?! Even so, using CYGWIN to port applications
is just bad, stop delaying and set up a damned linux machine, get off
windows, and leave us alone forever.

> I'm talking in principle. Right now they're harmless, since everyone but
> 6 persons worldwide hate Macs. If, for some reason, they would've gotten
> MS's current position, things would be a lot worse. Windows is a
> proprietary software solution. Macintosh is a proprietary software and
> hardware solution.
> I don't know what the word "chaning" means, you'll have to explain that
> to me. And no, I don't fall for strange case designs.

Six persons, then, why are they everywhere? Do the people in sub-sarahan
africa that havent even seen a computer, let alone a school, hate macs?
Lets see, macs being proprietary... Uh, all my IDE devices work in them...
Along with my AGP and PCI devices... Even my ram works in them... So, how
are they that pripriotary?! Just because they have a different processor?
If you want proprietary, look at Sun systems, Compaq proliant systems, DEC
Alphas...

> You obviously don't know the correct definition of "cracker". I believe
> Bowen gave it to you last night.

I know two definitions of "cracker", 1. White folk'. 2. People who break
applications. Im still waiting for bowen to grace me with this definition.

> If you scan for problems in the network, that's good enough for me;
> you're an admin (a junior one, but still an admin)

.... No, sorry. If I was a junior admin, I wouldnt have administrative
rights to 90% of the machines. But, I still dont "admin" them, I dont
change settings, I dont rack them, I dont add/remove users, I dont
install/upgrade hardware, I dont recover them, etc, etc, etc. So, no, I am
not an administrator. If anything, Im a "white-hat hacker", or whatever you
want to call it, because I just spend my day trying to break machines, not
fix or "administrate" things. The only things I "administrate", are three
servers at home.

> Well, of course. That's pure logic: there is much more 3rd party
> software.

Ah, you just proved my point. There are more copies of windows installed on
personal machines then any other operating system. There are
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more personal machines then servers. So,
hackers/crackers go after the *largest userbase*. I thought before you
couldnt understand that logic, but now, you're applying it... Strange, isnt
it?:

> Depends. But a lot of the time, they are less serious. Fact.

Perhaps thats because they dont run the computer. You really need to start
thinking in preportion.

> Usually doesn't lock up, just executes some arbitrary code, or some other
> insane behaviour.

Uh, usually inorder to execute this "arbitrary code", you need to seeze the
process(es) you're wanting to take over. This involves crashing them,
taking over their memory space, and running your code there.

> Windows doesn't have a licensing server. So how would it randomly crash
> because it couldn't find one? Think, Joe, think!

Yes, it does. Do a little reasarch into corperate versions of windows. 2k3
requires a license server for multipul services running on it.

> Are you blind? Stupid? Something like that? I've acknownledged Win32's
> popularity (which MEANS it's the most used, but you wouldn't know that
> with your low education) in *every* one of my posts on this subject. I do
> live with it (I wasn't dead last time I checked). But I don't plan to do
> so in future, because Win32 is a pile of *crap*. That it's most popular
> doesn't make it *better*.

There are multipul points to address here. I'll list them for you, make it
nice and easy to read.
1. Yes, infact I am blind. Thank you for pointing that out to everyone. I
have to live with it in my everyday life.
2. No, I am infact, not stupid. *
3. Yes, you've acknownledged that win32 platforms are the most popular, but
you refuse to live with them.
4. My low education... Uh *
5. Just because you might not have mastered the whole point-and-click thing,
doesnt mean windows is crap.
6. Uh, if its absolute crap, why do so many people use it? Is this a planet
of masochists?!

* At least I know english.

> You forgot some (actually, nearly everything named "Microsoft *").

Wow, that was real hilarious... Did you learn that joke when hanging out in
the computer lab after school?

> Why should I keep my mouth shut? I can show people there is an
> ALTERNATIVE to win32 (it's a fact that many, if not most, home users have
> no idea there is, besides Mac perhaps)!

Uh, if you dont know about any alternatives, then, hell, I doubt you would
be able to install them. Its not like telling someone "OMG LINUIX EXISTS!!!
ITS GOT A DAUNTING INSTALL AND USAGE, BUT IT RAWZXZZZZASZZZZZDEASEFASDFASDF
COMPARED TO WINDOWS!!!!!"... No, they're not going to leave windows. Why?
All of their applications are windows based, they know windows, and everyone
they know uses windows.

> You don't know that ;-D But no, I explained it already, I depend on
> certain applications.

Then, shouldnt these applications be horriable because they run on windows?
And arent there much better applications on linux? So, why use it?

> When it's not overnight, it's not a coup. So I have to agree. But I
> promise you, *NIX, probably Linux, is going to take over more and more of
> the home market. If you can't see that, you're blind.

The home market... ahahahahaha. Did you even see how much of a failure
lindows was? It crashed and burned worse then AWComs stock portfolio!

> Not everyone's. But many's desktop.

.... Ok, 10 people install it over the next few years, wow.

> I agree, Lindows was a bit of a joke. Regarding the other distros being
> too hard to install, you're wrong. Some of them now have very easy to
> use, graphical installers, similar to the Windows installers. They large
> distros are working on becoming more user friendly for home users, you
> know.

So, wait, I thought you said that *nix was going to slowly take over the
home market? Also, if the installer is like the windows installer, shouldnt
it be baddd? You're saying that everything microsoft is bad... so...

> See above, and you'll realise it's time you did your homework :-))
> Anyway, it's not like I'm going to pee my pants when I see a text-based
> installer, it's what I normally use to install Linux (although I don't
> have any installations myself, I have installed it for others).

.... and you didnt get sued? Ok, you deserve a cookie for that.

> Nice for you. Maybe there even is a bit of hope for ya.

Too bad theres no hope for you. Go learn english, graduate from middle
school, and then come back. Until then, I'm sick and tired of talking to
you, its hard to follow what you're saying, and is giving me an anurism.
I've grown tired to reeducating you. So, have a fun time on autokill.

>
> KAH

Toodle-pop!

-Joe

Aug 29, 2003, 1:01pm

"joeman" <john at fakeplastic.com> wrote in
news:3f4eb169$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> My eyes are open. At least I'm not the one saying a linux revolution
> is coming, albiet slowly...

No they're not. They're firmly closed, and your mind focused on an image
produced by a devotion to Microsoft or something.

> Do they not teach english very well up there in norway? I said,
> like... Not you specifically, just, your "kind".

Actually, they do. At least I don't have as many spelling problems as you
do (I did notice that you made an effort when writing this last post,
although you missed some nasty mistakes, how many hours did it take
you?). Saying my "kind" are involved in illegal activities is nearly as
good as accusing me personally. You know very well that it's what you
meant.

> Also, have fun
> launching a slander case from norway to the US, I'm sure your lawyer
> would have a field-day with the bill.

It would be well worth the money.

> Also, the firewalls are all
> software, this software then tells the routers at both the node branch
> and the ones right outside of our trunk to sink the host. I guess
> some crude software implimentation could be added if necessary... But,
> all major companies use hardware systems to protect their servers.

Maybe it's my bad English, but I don't understand what you're saying
here. You're telling me you've got a software implementation, then you
tell me you could add a crude one? Then you talk about major companies
using hardware solutions? Huh?

> Just because a few people dont know how to secure their systems,
> doesnt mean the rest of the internet is to blame. Same goes for
> linux. What about allll of those linux boxes that get owned because
> people dont know how to secure them?

Never said the rest of the internet was to blame. I think you need to go
back to school and learn you own language, start in first grade. There's
always going to be people that don't secure their systems properly (not
at all is more like it), but on Windows you have to do a lot more of
things to secure it. Some things you just wouldn't, and shouldn't expect
having to do.

> Wow, I didnt know that I was the entire administrative personnel.
> Thats like, 100 people... I must be magic then. Again, do they not
> teach you english in norway or something?

Again, go back and learn your own language. "You" can refer both to an
induvidual or a group of induviduals. Examples: "You are a crackhead,
Joeman" and "You are crackheads, admin staff".

> Wow, normal people call this "portable C", ANSI C. PHP along with its
> other scripting counterparts, are no better then VB. Just because
> they might handle a little like C/C++, doesnt mean they even come
> close.

You amuse me. Already you complain because I used the term "portable C"
instead of "ANSI C"; the two mean just the same thing, what are you going
on about? PHP is not strictly a scripting language, it can do a lot of
more advanced things. If you think PHP is an equal to VB, I'll just
assume you're either ignorant or stupid. (When I think about it, you're
probably both)

> It takes one 133MHz box to run everything. I've -found- computers
> that I can run linux on. You can even run linux on embedded machines,
> which are like, 33MHz each, with 128KB of onboard memory. Its not
> like you need 7GHz with 8GB of DDR to run linux. Thats one of the
> reasons why its so popular, it'll run on -anything-.

That depends entirely on what you use it for. I have a passion of doing
CPU-intensive tasks, such as 3D rendering, etc.

> Wait, but, it runs on win32. I thought win32 was the "devil", and all
> that. So really, besides from "I luvvv the applications!! I will never
> leave!!!", whats the reason for staying?! Even so, using CYGWIN to
> port applications is just bad, stop delaying and set up a damned linux
> machine, get off windows, and leave us alone forever.

There can still be good applications written for a bad platform. I would
appreciate if you didn't assume that I follow your own logic and way of
thinking. Why is it bad "porting" (most code builds "out of the box" on
CYGWIN, so it isn't really porting) with CYGWIN?
Don't think that an OS switch is going to make me leave AW, or these
groups. Ever heard of applications such as *gasp* "Wine" and "WineX"?.

> Six persons, then, why are they everywhere?
> Do the people in
> sub-sarahan africa that havent even seen a computer, let alone a
> school, hate macs?

Joe, you really need a sarcasm detector.

> Lets see, macs being proprietary... Uh, all my IDE
> devices work in them... Along with my AGP and PCI devices... Even my
> ram works in them... So, how are they that pripriotary?! Just because
> they have a different processor? If you want proprietary, look at Sun
> systems, Compaq proliant systems, DEC Alphas...

> I know two definitions of "cracker", 1. White folk'. 2. People who
> break applications. Im still waiting for bowen to grace me with this
> definition.

You probably just didn't pay attention, I guess.

> ... No, sorry. If I was a junior admin, I wouldnt have administrative
> rights to 90% of the machines. But, I still dont "admin" them, I dont
> change settings, I dont rack them, I dont add/remove users, I dont
> install/upgrade hardware, I dont recover them, etc, etc, etc. So, no,
> I am not an administrator. If anything, Im a "white-hat hacker", or
> whatever you want to call it, because I just spend my day trying to
> break machines, not fix or "administrate" things. The only things I
> "administrate", are three servers at home.

You're part of the administrative staff. Therefore, I call you an admin.
You don't seem to have a very important job, and I guess you might not be
qualified for one anyway, so it would be natural to think of you as a
junior admin.

> Ah, you just proved my point. There are more copies of windows
> installed on personal machines then any other operating system. There
> are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more personal machines then servers. So,
> hackers/crackers go after the *largest userbase*. I thought before
> you couldnt understand that logic, but now, you're applying it...
> Strange, isnt it?:

The ones that really know what they're doing might go for the largest
userbase. The majority will go for the easiest solution. In this case,
they happen to be the same OS. Pure coincidence (well, not really, but
that's not the point).

> Perhaps thats because they dont run the computer. You really need to
> start thinking in preportion.

A lot of applications can make a lot of bad things happen. Especially on
the less secure versions of Windows (9x/ME).

> Uh, usually inorder to execute this "arbitrary code", you need to
> seeze the process(es) you're wanting to take over. This involves
> crashing them, taking over their memory space, and running your code
> there.

You're not locking up the machine, though.

> Yes, it does. Do a little reasarch into corperate versions of
> windows. 2k3 requires a license server for multipul services running
> on it.

> There are multipul points to address here. I'll list them for you,
> make it nice and easy to read.
> 1. Yes, infact I am blind. Thank you for pointing that out to
> everyone. I have to live with it in my everyday life.

I don't believe you, but I doubt anybody could care less.

> 2. No, I am infact, not stupid. *

Yes, you are rather, if not very stupid. You keep proving it.

> 3. Yes, you've acknownledged that win32 platforms are the most
> popular, but you refuse to live with them.

I don't refuse to live with them. I refuse to continue living with them
as if they were a good solution.

> 4. My low education... Uh *

You didn't actually prove me wrong. I guess you just can't :-)

> 5. Just because you might not have mastered the whole point-and-click
> thing, doesnt mean windows is crap.

Very funny. Look at me laughing.

> 6. Uh, if its absolute crap, why do so many people use it? Is this a
> planet of masochists?!

No, more like blind followers of the most popular solution.

> * At least I know english.

Apparently, not as well as I do (I can only judge from your posts, of
course).

> Wow, that was real hilarious... Did you learn that joke when hanging
> out in the computer lab after school?

Again, very funny. Hahaha. Do you have a book titled "1001 sarcasms" or
something?

> Uh, if you dont know about any alternatives, then, hell, I doubt you
> would be able to install them. Its not like telling someone "OMG
> LINUIX EXISTS!!! ITS GOT A DAUNTING INSTALL AND USAGE, BUT IT
> RAWZXZZZZASZZZZZDEASEFASDFASDF COMPARED TO WINDOWS!!!!!"... No,
> they're not going to leave windows. Why? All of their applications
> are windows based, they know windows, and everyone they know uses
> windows.

No, I won't tell anyone anything in that way. I'm not you, Joe, you have
to understand that. As I explained, some of the larger distros have made
their installers more user friendly for people with little computing
skill. Linux is horribly easy to use, even for Windows users. Regarding
their applications, the typical home user will depend mainly on MS
Office, MS Outlook Express and other such applications. There's high
quality replacements that run under *NIX, most more stable and secure.
They just need to be showed this, and they will become genuinely
interested, if not only because of the price.

> Then, shouldnt these applications be horriable because they run on
> windows? And arent there much better applications on linux? So, why
> use it?

As I said, there can be good applications for bad platforms.

> The home market... ahahahahaha. Did you even see how much of a
> failure lindows was? It crashed and burned worse then AWComs stock
> portfolio!

Why do you keep getting hung up on Lindows? It was a weird idea, not
advertised well and a magnet for law cases.

> ... Ok, 10 people install it over the next few years, wow.

Are you the same Joeman that bashed my "6 mac users" sarcasm a few lines
up?

> So, wait, I thought you said that *nix was going to slowly take over
> the home market? Also, if the installer is like the windows
> installer, shouldnt it be baddd? You're saying that everything
> microsoft is bad... so...

Everything MS do usually turns out bad (there are exceptions, though).
These installers aren't done by MS. So why should they be bad?

> ... and you didnt get sued? Ok, you deserve a cookie for that.

Why should people sue me for doing things for them?

> Too bad theres no hope for you. Go learn english, graduate from
> middle school, and then come back. Until then, I'm sick and tired of
> talking to you, its hard to follow what you're saying, and is giving
> me an anurism. I've grown tired to reeducating you. So, have a fun
> time on autokill.

I know English (notice that capital E) and I'm still learning the formal
parts of it, but I still have a much cleaner and more correct English
than you do, although you're a native speaker.

To surpass your education I only needed to graduate from kinder garden. I
expect you would be sick and tired of talking to me, as I keep proving
you wrong and destroying your picture of the world. Nobody else has ever
had problems following what I'm saying, so it must be you, Joe.

You're not reeducating me, you can't. Putting me on your killfile is a
really good way of doing it too...

KAH

Apr 14, 2004, 2:54am

I came to this thread to find some help with a age checking script for a bot
and what do I find but 2 people playing my os is better then yours want to
take it some where else please. This is a thread about a bot script not a
thread about windows verses Linux

Apr 14, 2004, 2:58am

LOL this thread is from 21-8-2003.

[View Quote]

Apr 14, 2004, 3:16am

heh no more need for script....bet they are old enough now LMAO
sweets

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