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Jun 10, 2005, 3:28am

Howdy! Problem: TerraForge doesnt like people building. When I have a
bunch of objects selected, with lotsa data (part of my calcualtor for
example) and I put it where I want it, and click away to set it there,
TerraForge randomly deletes half of the selection, and makes it
unretrieveable. I have been lucky, and a) bot copied my calcualtor
before, and b0 not been working on active parts (copying before I change
around as an insureance to not mess up). This is really annoying, Also
what happens is TerraForge sais: [TerraForge]: (to DaBean o) Welcome to
awteen. You have access to the terrain editing system. Say 'd:begin' to
edit terrain. right after. Which actually looks like I might be wrong
rambling on about this because my bot sais I re-entered AWTeen (bounced)
omg whats up?!?!
Bean

Jun 10, 2005, 3:31am

Furthermore:
Heres what I've observed upon closer inspeection.. I dont know if it
is due to massive data being copied, but:

After selecting objects in 4 cells ( 127 objects, extensively
programmed) and move to another group of cells to work on.. the world
server boots me, then re-connects me, loosing half my copy.. very
annoying and time consuming.

Jun 10, 2005, 5:30am

Yep, have had this happen to me a couple times before. You cannot select
that many objects and try to move them. Have to do smaller sections that
you know will be safe for the browser to handle.

[View Quote]

Jun 10, 2005, 6:33am

(In the future, please submit TerraForge problem reports to the designated bug tracker: http://terraforge.chatrelaybot.info/bugs)

[View Quote] Being hit by three of Strike Rapier's Dem2Demeter bots and surviving that before its release into AWTeen, I'm fairly certain TerraForge can handle just one or two people with moderate terrain sessions.

> When I have a bunch of objects selected, with lotsa data (part of my calcualtor for example) and I put it where I want it, and click away to set it there, TerraForge randomly deletes half of the selection, and makes it unretrieveable. I have been lucky, and a) bot copied my calcualtor before, and b0 not been working on active parts (copying before I change around as an insureance to not mess up). This is really annoying, Also what happens is TerraForge sais: [TerraForge]: (to DaBean o) Welcome to awteen. You have access to the terrain editing system. Say 'd:begin' to edit terrain. right after. Which actually looks like I might be wrong rambling on about this because my bot sais I re-entered AWTeen (bounced) omg whats up?!?!

Looks like you solved your own problem, especially by your follow up post: you're flooding your connection to AWTeen. I myself have noticed some latency between TerraForge commands and their results.

You may want to consider Lord Fett's suggestion and work with less object selections at a single time. There is, in fact, a limit to the number of objects you can select (128). I'd suggest not going over about half that (64) in AWTeen.

When working with terrain, you may want to simply use the TerraForge commands to show/hide/delete markers to avoid flooding your own connection.

If you notice any reproducible issues with TerraForge, please be sure to submit them to the bugtracker. I've cluttered this group enough times with posts about TerraForge :)

Thanks,

Tony

Jun 10, 2005, 11:24am

Oops, I told chrispeg this was a world problem X_X He had Ray check out the
servers lmao

So thats what was deleting all my objects :O TerraForge not the world
connection.

[View Quote]

Jun 10, 2005, 2:17pm

I figured the problem out.. It wasn't TerraForge, but just moving too
much dats for teh memory buffer causing the connection to AW to get
lost, causing only patrial movement of the objects.

In essence (how I understand it now anyways) this is like cell spac,
where only a certainamount of dats can fit a certain area at once, only
a certain amount of data can be introduced into the memory buffer for
copying/moving objects. Thanks for explaining this to me Strike.
Bean

Jun 10, 2005, 3:53pm

Jaguar,

No, I'm pretty sure this *is not* a problem with TerraForge.

My guess is that the AW protocol can only handle a certain (and
obviously too low) amount of data in property operations. Trying to
copy/move/delete objects with too much data (i.e. selecting a large
number of objects, all of which have long action/description fields)
causes the world server to detect an error in the protocol. Therefore,
the world server copys/moves/deletes whatever it can (before the
communication error occurred with the protocol) and then resets your
connection to the world server (i.e. disconnects and reconnects you).

This is almost certainly a problem with the AW client/server protocol,
or at least a problem with AWI's bandwidth.

-Jeremy



[View Quote]

Jun 11, 2005, 5:30am

No, when it happens when using a bot, then the problem is definitely in
the program, since deletions and builds are always issued sequentially
(one after the other) and eg. the property dump/load use the very same
methods - so there is no problem at all with deleting or building
thousands of objects.

If somethng goes wrong, then it is most likely that the commands to the
server are issued by the bot too fast - in this case, the server will
typically crash or hang or disconnect the client (and then all pending
operations are being skipped and when the bot does not take this into
account and maintained a list of confirmed commands, then the items will
be lost). See previous discussions from the last years about this in the
sdk/bots newsgroups).

Another thing is using the "change" command from the sdk - this is not
always a wise thing to do since changes are performed by adding first
and then deleting, so a cell can become full unexpectedly (eg. when some
of the items do not move to another cell but stay within the same cell
or items from another cell go into a cell that is not cleared yet). In
this case, a bot would maintain a list of items to change and first
delete them and then build them rather than using the change command,
which, as said above, works exactly the other way around.





[View Quote]

Jun 11, 2005, 8:06am

I figured the problem out.. It wasn't TerraForge, but just moving too
much dats for teh memory buffer causing the connection to AW to get
lost, causing only patrial movement of the objects.

In essence (how I understand it now anyways) this is like cell spac,
where only a certainamount of dats can fit a certain area at once, only
a certain amount of data can be introduced into the memory buffer for
copying/moving objects. Thanks for explaining this to me Strike.
Bean

Jun 11, 2005, 1:35pm

I don't believe the problem was with the bot though.

If you read DaBean's first few posts carefully, you'll see that he was
trying to copy/move many objects independently of any bot (inclduing
TerraForge). He wasn't using a bot at all.

Initally, I think he assumed the problem was with TerraForge because
after trying this copy/move operation his browser was
disconnected/reconnected to the world and therefore TerraForge sent him
the welcome message again.

Reread the initial post and see below:

>Furthermore:
> Heres what I've observed upon closer inspeection.. I dont know if it
>is due to massive data being copied, but:
>
> After selecting objects in 4 cells ( 127 objects, extensively
>programmed) and move to another group of cells to work on.. the world
>server boots me, then re-connects me, loosing half my copy.. very
>annoying and time consuming.

If it was truely a problem with the bot sending/receiving data, then the
bot itself would be booted from the would server, and would reconnect
automatically in 30 seconds (as it is programmed to do in the event of a
world disconnect). Instead, it sounds like DaBean's browser is being
disconnected/reconnected. Therefore, it's not a problem with the bot.

-Jeremy

[View Quote]

Jun 11, 2005, 3:05pm

Slightly off topic, but how come AWTeens servers been quite sluggish
recently? (Objects taking long to load, was quite annoying on Jag's
roadtrip)

[View Quote]

Jun 11, 2005, 4:32pm

Yes, when you use the aw browser and things go wrong, it is because of
some limit on how many items you can select at a time (you can select as
many as you want, but only a certain amount will be executed) - however,
you will have the same first-build-then-delete-problem as with a bot,
which would make moving a lot of items not desirable anyway.



[View Quote]

Jun 11, 2005, 5:02pm

There aren't even any terrain markers belonging to DaBean in the area of that calculator. There's no reason for TerraForge to be doing anything to his property, since it's not terrain markers he's messing with.

[View Quote] > No, when it happens when using a bot, then the problem is definitely in the program, since deletions and builds are always issued sequentially (one after the other) and eg. the property dump/load use the very same methods - so there is no problem at all with deleting or building thousands of objects.

Jun 11, 2005, 11:08pm

For the N'th time, we have decided it was no t a problem with the bot,
read the posts and sub posts, It's been expalined multiple times. This
topic is dead..


Thanks for the help guys : )

Bean

Jun 11, 2005, 11:19pm

Hes tying up loose ends >_< Can't just rudley cut him out
[View Quote]

Jun 12, 2005, 12:29am

Loose ends been tied up in main reply thread, this is secondaryu reply
thread :p

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