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Jul 13, 2002, 8:25am

It may not be coincidence that the German subsidiary of blaxxun Inc.,
maintainers of "Cybertown," a virtual (and very cool) online commuity, have
themselves filed for insolvency as of April. Members' petitions and
donations have apparently kept the site from going under by initiating a
move from German to US servers. How long the site will continue in its
present incarnation is up for grabs. But, while Cybertown's membership was
free to its citizens, Aw's membership certainly is not; we have far more to
lose besides community should AW dissolve. I'd like to initiate a
discussion over ways to keep AW (as well as our personal investments in it)
alive during its present crisis. I'm sure I speak for a lot of you by
saying that I've put in far too much time, effort and money for the whole
system to simply "go away" in front of my nose. Any ideas?

Synapticon

Jul 13, 2002, 9:15am

Attract a REAL (game) developer to develop AW to its fullest potential. http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/ for more info. Until then, AW will continue to flounder as it has been since its inception.

[View Quote] > It may not be coincidence that the German subsidiary of blaxxun Inc.,
> maintainers of "Cybertown," a virtual (and very cool) online commuity, have
> themselves filed for insolvency as of April. Members' petitions and
> donations have apparently kept the site from going under by initiating a
> move from German to US servers. How long the site will continue in its
> present incarnation is up for grabs. But, while Cybertown's membership was
> free to its citizens, Aw's membership certainly is not; we have far more to
> lose besides community should AW dissolve. I'd like to initiate a
> discussion over ways to keep AW (as well as our personal investments in it)
> alive during its present crisis. I'm sure I speak for a lot of you by
> saying that I've put in far too much time, effort and money for the whole
> system to simply "go away" in front of my nose. Any ideas?

Jul 13, 2002, 10:36am

My one question is....Will 9 9 9 and all the other employees stay?

Jul 13, 2002, 10:52am

actually, I have seen a lot of growth in AW during recent months, many many
many new citizens have been coming to AWTeen, immigrating from AW (I wonder
why, lol). So for myself and AWTeen, we have been seeing the opposite of
major deterioration, we have been seeing major growth. Alpha World, however,
I've been noticing, has been getting fewer and fewer numbers, I think this
is mainly due to people comming to AWTeen (it is not uncommon for AWTeen to
pass up AW in numbers), and partially due to most new citizens comming to
awteen instead of Aw.

J

[View Quote]

Jul 13, 2002, 12:49pm

Theyre getting paid amazingly high sums of money.. what do you think?

Jul 13, 2002, 11:56pm

AWC, er.. AW_I_'s best market clearly lies in the MMORPG gaming industry. I
for one do think that it shouldn't be made entirely into a game, but it
should progress somewhere towards that direction.

Chris

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2002, 12:04am

CMM, Comit, and Syntax take note...

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2002, 1:25pm

Sounds good to bring in a gaming company. However, people have diverse
interests here. Such as building and meeting people, new citizens as well
as returning citizens. Also and interest in seeing Alpha World preserved
and never closed down. Hopefully, it will become an asset and not
negatively effect what already exists.

[View Quote]

Jul 14, 2002, 2:25pm

Sounds nice but there's only one problem..... it's summer break for many kids in school..... this
happens every year.... we get a bunch of new cits since kids are home from school and then a couple
months later a good number of them are gone once school starts up again...... unfortunately a
couple busy months worth of cit fees isnt going to keep AW out of the red :O/ they need steady
signups.......

*cough* advertise *cough*

JB

Jul 14, 2002, 9:19pm

Well.... you know you can always get one of those Internet Archiving
companies to take it over after it shuts down if it ever does. I personally
don't think it will. There are a few tricks left. People wouldn't be able
to build, but you could still chat. :)

Chris

[View Quote]

Jul 16, 2002, 5:24am

I have to disagree i think AW is already headed to the Realism of a game
however the world builders have not yet built many worlds to show off all
the new features so we are left with the same old AW we have had since 98 or
before. I would think the best way is to advance it like they are now and to
get a game publisher to back them such as "Sierra" or other well known
publishers AW right now has 2 major problems. First they have made it to
expensive to attracked new people intot he community and second they dont
put there name out enough. If a publisher would put the name out maybe sell
cds in stores or what not and AW would lower there prices to a COMPETATIVE
rate then we would see alot more money flowing into AW.

- Killamo
rymonday at hotmail.com

[View Quote]

Jul 17, 2002, 7:30pm

My .02 on Blaxxun. In short, it was terrible. It just went the way of other
VRML based 3D and should have died years ago. I never thought it was very
cool since the downloads were huge and there was no real time building that
I ever knew of. In other words, comparing AW and Balxxun are comparing
apples and oranges. Very different techonologies. Blaxxun did have the right
idea in keeping it free and trying to generate revenues in another way. I
imagine that's why it lasted as long as it did. Unfortunately the technology
they were using didn't attract enough people. I remember a few years back
reading that the developer of VRML said it should die off or something to
that effect.

We've tried for years to initiate discussions with AW management and give
what we feel are viable alternatives to their business model. Eep and
followers want RPG type games. I think they are missing the boat on more
Bingo (game)type worlds and need to look at the buisiness model of Pogo.com
as they have 10's of thousands of users on at any time. For any of this to
work though they need users in the worlds so they can sell advertising. Not
many companies are going to purchase advertising within a paid environment
that only have a few hundred people in it at any given time and with those
people spread out all over the place. I realize that Internet advertising
revenue isn't what it used to be. That doesn't mean companies still don't
advertise. They just spend their money more wisely. It seems years ago that
many large corporations were advertising in AW and also using the technology
themselves. What ever happened to them all? All gone not long after the
current management took over.

AW needs to be free or nearly free. ( I never thought the $19.95 a year was
too bad) Worlds need to be inexpensive as that's what keeps people coming
back and is the basis of their community. Bottom line, you have to have the
user base before any of the numerous suggestions that others have made in
the past will work. Unfortunately the actions that the management of AW keep
taking are ruining the community and forcing people to leave for various
reasons. No users = no revenue on several fronts. Trying to make all their
money from the users had obviously failed. They need to look at their users
as an assett, not all their revenue and market this place like it should be.
"To restate- Blaxxun did have the right idea in keeping it free and trying
to generate revenues in another way. I imagine that's why it lasted as long
as it did." AW needs to look at that....

Casay


[View Quote]

Jul 17, 2002, 9:46pm

[View Quote] > We've tried for years to initiate discussions with AW management and give
> what we feel are viable alternatives to their business model. Eep and
> followers want RPG type games. I think they are missing the boat on more
> Bingo (game)type worlds and need to look at the buisiness model of Pogo.com
> as they have 10's of thousands of users on at any time.

No, I don't want RPG-type games--I simply want AW to be OPTIONALLY more gamelike, with more gamelike features (jumping, hitting, shooting, an inventory, moving objects--i.e. physics, etc). These things would open up AW's gaming possibilities FAR beyond just that of RPGs (which would still need a decent dialog branching system that could probably be taken care of by a bot--blech--anyway).

> For any of this to
> work though they need users in the worlds so they can sell advertising. Not
> many companies are going to purchase advertising within a paid environment
> that only have a few hundred people in it at any given time and with those
> people spread out all over the place. I realize that Internet advertising
> revenue isn't what it used to be. That doesn't mean companies still don't
> advertise. They just spend their money more wisely. It seems years ago that
> many large corporations were advertising in AW and also using the technology
> themselves. What ever happened to them all? All gone not long after the
> current management took over.

They were mostly experimenting with AW, realized it wasn't being developed to its fullest potential, and moved on.

> AW needs to be free or nearly free. ( I never thought the $19.95 a year was
> too bad) Worlds need to be inexpensive as that's what keeps people coming
> back and is the basis of their community. Bottom line, you have to have the
> user base before any of the numerous suggestions that others have made in
> the past will work. Unfortunately the actions that the management of AW keep
> taking are ruining the community and forcing people to leave for various
> reasons. No users = no revenue on several fronts. Trying to make all their
> money from the users had obviously failed. They need to look at their users
> as an assett, not all their revenue and market this place like it should be.
> "To restate- Blaxxun did have the right idea in keeping it free and trying
> to generate revenues in another way. I imagine that's why it lasted as long
> as it did." AW needs to look at that....

Regardless, AW's still lasted as long or longer than Blaxxun with its various free and paid plans. But I agree it should be cheaper/free

Jul 18, 2002, 1:25am

Hi everyone:

[View Quote] I wonder if they've even entertained the notion of contacting the people at
ELECTRONIC ARTS...

Ohhh...The things THEY could do with AW.... :-)))

Just a thought :-)

Patrick

Jul 18, 2002, 1:59am

Hi everyone:

[View Quote] I agree. However Killano, keep in mind that EA *alone* has a HUGE community
(particularly and especially in the area of sports). IF EA were to acquire
AWLD, I can see the following happen....

1). Making THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE 3.3 (or later) FULLY compliant (including
AlphaWorld).

2). Duplicate AlphaWorld, AWTeen and AWSchool. Note that I did *not*
include AWGate because AlphaWorld can (and already DOES in many ways) serve
as the "default" gateway and adding AWGate would merely be redundant.

3). End ALL online downloading of the AW browser except for patches and
approved bots.

4). Ship the AW Browser and World Server to stores at prices equal to the
latest version of a game.

5). For world owners, add an "Affiliates Program" whereas an owner can add
advertisements (stratigically placed in appropriate locations WITHOUT
intruding on used and covered land. Obviously, this would have to be on an
OPT-IN basis ONLY.

For places like AlphaWorld, such ads need only be placed in populated areas
and in spots where land isn't covered. This would NOT be an option the
community would have as we would (in effect) have NO SAY in where such
advertising is located since places like AlphaWorld would be RUN & HOSTED by
AWLD.

5). GET RID of tourism completely. A citizenship can be included in the
price of the browser, which would be shipped to stores. All a user would
need to do is fill out a short registration form which would ask for a
desired username (which can be changed at any time UNLESS someone else is
online under that particular name). Once the form is electronically
submitted, then the browser will boot up (the form will NOT appear again if
a previous registration was successful).

Same goes for the World Server, but with obvious exceptions which only World
Owners would know about. :-)

Lemme see....Have I missed anything so far??? :-)

Cheers for now :-)

Patrick

Jul 18, 2002, 2:04am

Hi everyone:

[View Quote] You also have to keep in mind that AWTeen is FULLY 3.3 compliant whereas AW
is not...

Patrick

Jul 18, 2002, 9:43am

One big thing you missed: Dynamic Content! How is anyone supposed to be
able to build anything if you can't download it? AW, by its nature, is a
dynamic, online venture, and no matter what, you have to download
content in real time. Otherwise, you'd have to download a patch every
time someone builds something!

And I'm not sure why you're so hooked on EA. Sure, they make sports
games, but last I checked, AW is not a sports game. If you really want a
gaming company to hook up with AW, you need a company that has
experience in dealing with online, multi-player games (Everquest, Ultima
Online, Halflife:Team Fortress, etc.).

In any case, I don't really think putting it in a box on the shelf will
really make any difference in terms of immigration. As Casay stated, you
first need to have content before you can advertise for it, and putting
it in a box is a form of advertising.

[View Quote] > Hi everyone:
>
[View Quote]
--
Goober King
AW: It's in the box!
robrod at prism.net

Jul 18, 2002, 10:02am

putting it in a box in the stores makes a huge difference,
u have to remember that more than half of the tourists cant register coz of
not having a CC, but selling it in stores would make CC usage obsolete


[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 2:14pm

Did they ever do anything special to attract people? Did they try to involve
different areas and opinions? Never seen this in more than 5 years. I have only
noticed a close technical area trying to promote something which is far behyond
the average usability
icey

[View Quote] > My .02 on Blaxxun. In short, it was terrible. It just went the way of other
> VRML based 3D and should have died years ago. I never thought it was very
> cool since the downloads were huge and there was no real time building that
> I ever knew of. In other words, comparing AW and Balxxun are comparing
> apples and oranges. Very different techonologies. Blaxxun did have the right
> idea in keeping it free and trying to generate revenues in another way. I
> imagine that's why it lasted as long as it did. Unfortunately the technology
> they were using didn't attract enough people. I remember a few years back
> reading that the developer of VRML said it should die off or something to
> that effect.
>
> We've tried for years to initiate discussions with AW management and give
> what we feel are viable alternatives to their business model. Eep and
> followers want RPG type games. I think they are missing the boat on more
> Bingo (game)type worlds and need to look at the buisiness model of Pogo.com
> as they have 10's of thousands of users on at any time. For any of this to
> work though they need users in the worlds so they can sell advertising. Not
> many companies are going to purchase advertising within a paid environment
> that only have a few hundred people in it at any given time and with those
> people spread out all over the place. I realize that Internet advertising
> revenue isn't what it used to be. That doesn't mean companies still don't
> advertise. They just spend their money more wisely. It seems years ago that
> many large corporations were advertising in AW and also using the technology
> themselves. What ever happened to them all? All gone not long after the
> current management took over.
>
> AW needs to be free or nearly free. ( I never thought the $19.95 a year was
> too bad) Worlds need to be inexpensive as that's what keeps people coming
> back and is the basis of their community. Bottom line, you have to have the
> user base before any of the numerous suggestions that others have made in
> the past will work. Unfortunately the actions that the management of AW keep
> taking are ruining the community and forcing people to leave for various
> reasons. No users = no revenue on several fronts. Trying to make all their
> money from the users had obviously failed. They need to look at their users
> as an assett, not all their revenue and market this place like it should be.
> "To restate- Blaxxun did have the right idea in keeping it free and trying
> to generate revenues in another way. I imagine that's why it lasted as long
> as it did." AW needs to look at that....
>
> Casay
>
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 3:30pm

EA Sports makes sports games. Electronic Arts, as in the entire gaming
company, makes many different kinds of games ;)

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A message from Zeo Toxion
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 3:42pm

But do they make any online, multi-player games? That was my original
point, after all... :P

[View Quote] > EA Sports makes sports games. Electronic Arts, as in the entire gaming
> company, makes many different kinds of games ;)
>
> --
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> A message from Zeo Toxion
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
[View Quote]
--
Goober King
Stick to the topic at hand! Wait... that sounds wrong...
robrod at prism.net

Jul 18, 2002, 3:51pm

Do you mean MMORPG's or just online multi-player games?

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 4:48pm

Yes, EA also runs Pogo.com. Much more than sports games and thousands of
users on-line at any time. Would love to see those thousands of people
playing their games in AW :-)
Casay
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 4:50pm

Hi ncc 72897,

Quick question for you. You said, "u have to remember that more than half
of the tourists cant register coz of not having a CC". Where did you get
these numbers because they are just not correct.

Not only are the numbers off, but you do not need a credit card to register.
You can register by mail with a check or money order and you can use
PayByCash.com to pay online via Virtual Check (check submitted via World
Wide Web), Check-by-FAX, direct debit (ACH), Western Union®, PayPal,
Citibank's "C2it" service, cash, and wire transfer (in many currencies), or
money order! PaybyCash provides these same services for other online
projects like Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online and Ultima Online.

We all know that there are many ways to improve Activeworlds, but it helps
to have factual information to assist you when making suggestions. If your
desire is to help Activeworlds please inform the next person you see
spreading this rumor of the facts. Thanks.


-Flagg







[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 4:51pm

Uh, no it wouldn't since it still costs to be a citizen. Store sales would only account for the initial software purchase, not the citizenship. Regardless, in its current state, AW simply would not sell.

[View Quote] > putting it in a box in the stores makes a huge difference,
> u have to remember that more than half of the tourists cant register coz of
> not having a CC, but selling it in stores would make CC usage obsolete
>
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 4:52pm

They publish The Sims (and the online version coming soon) and MotorCity Online.

[View Quote] > But do they make any online, multi-player games? That was my original
> point, after all... :P
>
[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 5:37pm

Yes i believe Maxis is an Electronic Arts company.

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A message from Zeo Toxion
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[View Quote]

Jul 18, 2002, 7:04pm

Hey, Flagg! Nice to see you jump into the fray. Will this be a regular
occurrence? :)

[View Quote] > Hi ncc 72897,
>
> Quick question for you. You said, "u have to remember that more than half
> of the tourists cant register coz of not having a CC". Where did you get
> these numbers because they are just not correct.
>
> Not only are the numbers off, but you do not need a credit card to register.
> You can register by mail with a check or money order and you can use
> PayByCash.com to pay online via Virtual Check (check submitted via World
> Wide Web), Check-by-FAX, direct debit (ACH), Western Union®, PayPal,
> Citibank's "C2it" service, cash, and wire transfer (in many currencies), or
> money order! PaybyCash provides these same services for other online
> projects like Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online and Ultima Online.
>
> We all know that there are many ways to improve Activeworlds, but it helps
> to have factual information to assist you when making suggestions. If your
> desire is to help Activeworlds please inform the next person you see
> spreading this rumor of the facts. Thanks.
>
>
> -Flagg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]
--
Goober King
Maybe they do read it after all...
robrod at prism.net

Jul 19, 2002, 2:34am

Ooh...I got an idea as I was reading this thread.

Putting the box in stores may only account for the shelf price and not the
cit, but what about this:

*If you download AW, you have to pay x money for a cit, but if you bought it
for the same x amount of money, it came with a registration code on the CD
or whatever, and if you put in the registration code it would give you a cit
through that.

How does that sound?

----------
[View Quote]
> Uh, no it wouldn't since it still costs to be a citizen. Store sales would
> only account for the initial software purchase, not the citizenship.
> Regardless, in its current state, AW simply would not sell.
>
[View Quote]

Jul 19, 2002, 6:21am

Might be possible, but then AWI would have to deal with key (serial number) generator cracks, multiple people using the same cracked account, etc. It'd most likely be more hassle than it's worth. Then again, it might be interesting having an "official-unnofficial hacked-cracked" (UOHC) account citizenship...eh.

I think AW would be/do better as on-line only since it's so small--and the "high-rez" CD flopped a few years ago anyway so it's just not worth putting only a few worlds' contents on the CD with it (which would be the only real justification in creating a CD in the first place since the browser is only ~1MB anyway).

[View Quote] > Ooh...I got an idea as I was reading this thread.
>
> Putting the box in stores may only account for the shelf price and not the
> cit, but what about this:
>
> *If you download AW, you have to pay x money for a cit, but if you bought it
> for the same x amount of money, it came with a registration code on the CD
> or whatever, and if you put in the registration code it would give you a cit
> through that.
>
> How does that sound?
>
[View Quote]

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